The good side of being a sin

Lorde

Lorde

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

CCCP

R/E

There is a lie about some classes being "good".

What is good are some specific builds of some specific classes. A Minion Master is good, other necromantic options, not so much.

Some classes have some skills they are expected to choose. Build creativity is cut and the player is forced to cope with a pair of "tried and true" paths.

While I am not advocate of stupid builds, player option is cut before giving a chance to use it. If a Necro choose to not use minions, people will blame his decision for any possible failure of the group.

From a Assassin, people know little and expect less. As long as you don't die on every pull and agro another group shadow stepping, you are free to use whatever moves you seen fit.

Oddly enough, people expect more of a "good" class with a "bad" build then from a Assassin with anything.

And how you get a group? Well... have a Minion Master friend! :P

Crazyvietguy

Crazyvietguy

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

[Njk]

Rt/

I agree with this totally. Most groups I enter dont really understand what im there for. They see me as a party filler and know that im capable of dealing damage.

However since i know the mechanics of a Sin and play my assassin to avoid deaths as much as possible I tend to rarely get complained about.

Its still funny cause I can basically solo a boss (doing large damage and placing poison, bleeding, deep wound, knockdown all on my own) but ill never get recognition because.. im an assassin.


BUT.. I know that I tore that boss to pieces so thats enough for me.

Lorde

Lorde

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

CCCP

R/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazyvietguy
I agree with this totally. Most groups I enter dont really understand what im there for. They see me as a party filler and know that im capable of dealing damage.

However since i know the mechanics of a Sin and play my assassin to avoid deaths as much as possible I tend to rarely get complained about.

Its still funny cause I can basically solo a boss (doing large damage and placing poison, bleeding, deep wound, knockdown all on my own) but ill never get recognition because.. im an assassin.


BUT.. I know that I tore that boss to pieces so thats enough for me. Can you post your build?

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

Assassins are definantly one of the most underated and misunderstood classes in the game. They have incredible DPS and can kill baddies in moments if not seconds. They're only got bad rep because it's hard to be a 'sin in Cantha.

Cantha is home to the Afflicted, who on death trigger the Afflicted Soul Explosion. Not fun at all. This skill, coupled with the assassin's not-too-favorable armor rating and the fact that they had to be in melee range, was easy kill for sins. How could you *not* die? Was not fair, was not fun. And then it would build up: You die once from the Afflicted Soul Explosion, the DP can really hurt you, and soon after you'll continue to die from it. Not fair at all.

So to sum it up, assassins only "sucked" because no one understood this. They've always been a great class, excellent at spiking and taking down the enemies quickly. Anyone who says otherwise needs to get choked.

bilateralrope

bilateralrope

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

New Zealand

Xen Of Onslaught (Xen of the Pacific division)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Cantha is home to the Afflicted, who on death trigger the Afflicted Soul Explosion. Not fun at all. This skill, coupled with the assassin's not-too-favorable armor rating and the fact that they had to be in melee range, was easy kill for sins. Part of playing an assassin well is knowing when to run away, which with the afflicted is very obvious if your paying attention. My problem with Cantha for assassins was Unwaking Waters, which is the only place in PvE where I've ever been forced to use skills from my secondary class (something I hate doing in PvE).

One thing I have noticed though is that playing an assassin has actually improved how well I play my other characters, because playing an assassin forced me to learn the aggro mechanics well enough to not need to think about them. So I suddenly noticed that I was applying them to the playing of my caster characters without thinking about it.

Crazyvietguy

Crazyvietguy

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

[Njk]

Rt/

Its pretty standard, I think. Another good thing about assassins is they can be tweaked and modified easy.

Shadow of Haste
Parasitic Bond or Barbs(Hex of choice) or a Fun Assassin Hex: Mark of Instablity
Black Lotus Strike
Twisting Fangs
Black Spider Strike
Horns of the Ox or Blades of Steel
Dash
Feigned Neutrality

Sometimes I trade Feigned Neutrality for a Rez sig, If we have solid monks.

Pick Me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Thornill, ON, Canada

THE CANUCK MONKS (TCM)

W/R

Lorde, I tend to disagree with you.

People do know about the assassin (from either experience or hearsay) and some people will stick to the old (GW only) parties, rather than with new professions. People think Monks are better than Ritualists, Assassins are nothing more than a walking corpse, Dervishes are enchantment freaks, etc. These stereo-types are bad, but its because of bad experiences others have had with these professions.

Most people know Assassins can do very good damage, but they tend to stay too long and require healing (even more so than the W/Mo). Thus, they are not loved by Monks.

Necros are great with SS, BiP, Bloodspikes, not just MMing.

It isn't odd to expect things from "good classes". You expect good things from a super star athlete, right? If you expect good results from a poor player, why would you?

I get into groups in Cantha because they need another player, or because I've partied with others before and they remember that I wasn't bad.

In Tyria, everyone wanted me, because they knew that Assassins excel in spike damage.

I do agree with your perception of people thinking there is a very limited # of build that are acceptable in any mission or quest and will scream at you if you deviate from those builds. That is why I experiement with henchies doing quests (not city missions). Its more fun that way.

clawofcrimson

clawofcrimson

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Crimson Claw

W/

the classes are pretty well balanced.... the problem comes when a new chapter is released and non experienced players start playing 'expansion classes' which by their nature are more difficult to play...because they tend to require unorthadox tactics.

Lorde

Lorde

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

CCCP

R/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazyvietguy
Its pretty standard, I think. Another good thing about assassins is they can be tweaked and modified easy.

Shadow of Haste
Parasitic Bond or Barbs(Hex of choice) or a Fun Assassin Hex: Mark of Instablity
Black Lotus Strike
Twisting Fangs
Black Spider Strike
Horns of the Ox or Blades of Steel
Dash
Feigned Neutrality

Sometimes I trade Feigned Neutrality for a Rez sig, If we have solid monks. I use

Golden Phoenix Strike
Palm Strike
Death Blossom

Critical Eye
Rebirth

Shroud of Distress
Way of Perfection
Death Charge


I like to use my Dual Attack as soon as possible so I use to Off-hand attacks which doesn't require a Lead attack and use Death Blossom a lot.

Yanman.be

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

A/

Why bother with GPS then?

*edit*

Go: [skill]Golden Phoenix Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill][skill]Moebius Strike[/skill]

pingu666

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

guildhall

[DETH]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazyvietguy
Its pretty standard, I think. Another good thing about assassins is they can be tweaked and modified easy.

Shadow of Haste
Parasitic Bond or Barbs(Hex of choice) or a Fun Assassin Hex: Mark of Instablity
Black Lotus Strike
Twisting Fangs
Black Spider Strike
Horns of the Ox or Blades of Steel
Dash
Feigned Neutrality

Sometimes I trade Feigned Neutrality for a Rez sig, If we have solid monks. i use that attack chain with assassins promise in pve, the spike damage is awsome. the sustained DPS is increadible

having a title probably helps alot, and i called my assassin ur first fleshgolem, and was lucky enuff to get survivor, and prot of cantha title

Crazyvietguy

Crazyvietguy

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

[Njk]

Rt/

Like I said, fairly standard build nothing new except for maybe the use of barbs, dont see that around too often.

@ Pick Me: I agree with you that people know that assassins are "spike" damage dealers. However they are also seen as not significant. In other words, people think that a paragon or another necro would provide more support.

Also many players were discouraged because of the early debute of assassins and how they... to be blunt, can't tank. (I dont even want to argue just stating an opinion). IMO people who don't let assassins in their group simply because it doesnt follow the cookie cutter, "2 Warrior, 2 Monk, 2 Ele, 1 Necro, 1 Interrupter" are extremely narrow minded and usually terrible players themselves.

I find myself often the last choice in PvE for a mission, but after I enter in with them they realize I know what im doing. Although, they are finally getting much more respect because the players who, for lack of a better word, sucked at playing assassins deleted them. Leaving the fairly good to great assassins left to pick up the spoils

pingu666

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

guildhall

[DETH]

a paragon can provide better support, easily, and so can a necro, but most do damage builds cos necros pwn at aoe/minion pressure damage.

assassins have very little utility. they do make things die really fast tho, so its a matter of if u need damage, or support

Chamber Asgardian

Chamber Asgardian

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2006

Lions Arch, Kryta

Untainted Apocalypse

A/

I'm just happy all the crappy assassins deleted their sins. Leaving all the good sins to keep on playing. The less crappier sins there are playing this game the better.

Lorde

Lorde

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

CCCP

R/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanman.be
Why bother with GPS then?

*edit*

Go: [skill]Golden Phoenix Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill][skill]Moebius Strike[/skill] Why not use [wiki]Palm Strike[/wiki] instead of Moebius? It give you another option in the case Phoenix Strike fails.

Chamber Asgardian

Chamber Asgardian

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2006

Lions Arch, Kryta

Untainted Apocalypse

A/

Quote:
Why not use Palm Strike Palm Strike

Boss(es)
- Kenshi Steelhand

Location(s)
- Bukdek Byway

Green Item(s)
- Kenshi's Butterfly Daggers
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update the original article(s).

instead of Moebius? It give you another option in the case Phoenix Strike fails. B/c Moebius Strike is the superior elite, when compared to Palm Strike. Moebius allows for constant spammage of DB, and Palm Strike doesn't, which makes it a more viable choice when using DB as your main damage source.

[DE]

[DE]

Hugs and Kisses

Join Date: Oct 2005

Scars Meadows

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorde
Why not use [wiki]Palm Strike[/wiki] instead of Moebius? It give you another option in the case Phoenix Strike fails. It's so you can continiously spam moebius and death blossom back and forth, doing massive damage in PvE mobs.

Lorde

Lorde

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

CCCP

R/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamber Asgardian
B/c Moebius Strike is the superior elite, when compared to Palm Strike. Moebius allows for constant spammage of DB, and Palm Strike doesn't, which makes it a more viable choice when using DB as your main damage source. I just checked and I didn't noticed the cooldown of Moebius was so low.

Priest Of Sin

Priest Of Sin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Sitting upon Kerrigan's Throne.

Live For The Swarm [ZERG]

Me/N

Being an assassin nowadays has never been so easy! Shadow Walk in, unleash a deadly combo, and cancel the stance with Bonettis' Defense. The target will die of degen and condition overload

But yes, Nobody recognizes the fact that assassins can obilterate the bosses most groups have trouble with. Monk boss? The sin will kill it before it has time to react. GG.

Kiba of hidden leaf

Kiba of hidden leaf

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

Knights of the Ninth

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by pingu666
a paragon can provide better support, easily, and so can a necro, but most do damage builds cos necros pwn at aoe/minion pressure damage.

assassins have very little utility. they do make things die really fast tho, so its a matter of if u need damage, or support Assassins do have good utility but for themselves mostly.

Crazyvietguy

Crazyvietguy

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

[Njk]

Rt/

Quote:
Originally Posted by pingu666
a paragon can provide better support, easily, and so can a necro, but most do damage builds cos necros pwn at aoe/minion pressure damage.

assassins have very little utility. they do make things die really fast tho, so its a matter of if u need damage, or support I wont disagree that Minion Masters > Assassins in PvE. However with an assassin the battle tends to be shorter because the assassin SHOULD target any monks/ritualists/elementalists first before any other enemy. Not only does the result in the opponents death but by killing a ritualist or monk. The assassin cuts out any source of healing from the other mob. By killing elementalists the assassin relieves pressure off the monk because of the ele's potential AoE destruction.

It may be seen as an "all out attack" character, but i'd like to think of the assassin as just as much of a fighting supporter as a paragon or orders necro. Plus 1 assassin can easily dispatch a caster boss with 1 combo and a few extra swings.

And yeah.. assassins can only heal themselves, usually letting up on the monks energy usage on just the assassin. 5, 10, 15 energy can go a long way.

Takuna

Takuna

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

Death Blossom + Moebius Strike + having previously set up Critical Defences? The warrior will suffer from the 'crying' condition when he gets ressurected because you didn't come close to dying. Sure, if you're not awfully good, you'll have trouble maintaining it but stay away from blindness and geomancers and you'll be fine.

Dutch Masterr

Dutch Masterr

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Long Island, NY

Elite Knights [SWAT]

W/

the good side of being a sin is that sins are awsome! =D

but really....they spike so hard and fast...probably faster than any other class, which makes up for their poor defense.

pingu666

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

guildhall

[DETH]

im dubious of shit owning damage being classed as "support"

Samurai-JM

Samurai-JM

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

The Krimzon Odyssey [KO]

A/

The good side of being a sin: Sins are total unrelenting pwnmonsters
The bad side of being a sin: No one else thinks so...

Until I meet the group that rejected me for a mission in the next area after having beat it a full 20 minutes before they did.

^thats goin on my wiki userpage. best quote ever

But seriously, you wanna know how to counter a sins defense?

Its called a MONK HERO. Dunkoro and 1 healer henchman have always served me better than any 'real' monk ever could. I just hero/henched Sorrow's Furnace last week, and Raisu Palace yesterday. Other than once or twice in Sorrows... I didn't die. At all. This was with a Spike build with no more defense than Feigned Neutrality.

The best defense IMO? Enough offense to kill the enemy before they can make any offense to beat your defense, then a monk or two to cover that. Works every time

Evaem Asollan

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

Tribal Instincts

A/Me

The good side of being a sin for me is that, when i'm out numbered and surrounded, I will bring atleast 2 others down before they get me. I also like going into a situation against the odds, destroying the enemy with only a good monk at my side.

To me every other class can't chain kill people, or have next to no recharge in spikes, or even spike effectively, or hold their own. For me I have found that only a sin can do all of that. A warrior may hold his own and may even spike, but it will be very slow. An ele might chain kill a few people or spike hard but will eventually run out of energy. Other classes just don't have super strong spikes capable of killing someone on their own.

Just my opinion.

GloryFox

GloryFox

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Good ol' USA, where everyone else wants to be

Now Plays World of Warcraft on Whisperwind

I recently had an interesting experience with my Guild. Someone needed to kill Shiro in Gates of Madness but was unable to procure a necro with spoil victor. SO I said I would help him out. At first he was upset and began the usual noob calling. I reminded him that I was an officer of the Guild for a reason and that if he wanted help and refused I would make sure he never got it again. So he accepted my help and placed a certain bet to help re assure his confidence that all assassins were noob’s. We got down to Shiro and we killed the Litch first as is customary then we ran back to prepare for Shiro as usual.

I told him to wait here and I went ahead and used the Shiro solo on build on Gwiki (he was not aware of the build) so I could amaze him with my SIN soloing ability. I proceeded to solo Shiro and killed him in about 9-10 minutes. He said he would never doubt an assassin again and then proceeded to pay me 20k from a certain bet we made earlier.

The fun thing about being a SIN is the ability to amaze ordinary with uncommon valor and skill when there is so much prejudice against us.

Priest Of Sin

Priest Of Sin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Sitting upon Kerrigan's Throne.

Live For The Swarm [ZERG]

Me/N

The best part of being a sin is outliving your entire group.

ensoriki

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

Good parts:
- Nightfall and prophecies pve show your godly

- Sins promise/moebuis strike allow for unending torment
- Awesome evasion skills, Critical defenses compliments your primary flashing blades is pretty much infinite, shroud of distress slows down your death for monks to save you
-16 shadow form, is fun
- With a monk secondary and unblockable chain sins only counter is e-denial and interrupt/miss hexes.
-shiro solo

Bad side:
- Prejudiced all because of the Narutards ruining the rep
- Afflicted hurt you alot since you kill them so fast...but thats no different from a warrior or derv...or anyone who gets close to em.

Outside of a bad rep, and afflicted sins really...dont have much flaws.

the2ndwind

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2007

Goodside
- spike damage
- a large portion of damage via conditions
- a variety of self-preservation/evasion skills
- a ton of unblockable attack options

Downside
- spike damage (isn't exactly difficult to replicate with some ele/rt/necro/warr builds)
- a large portion of damage via conditions
- medium armored melee with no inherent extra AL
- subpar interrupting ability compared to rangers, hammer warrs, mesmers


Assassins are fine in PvE, it's just that elementalists and necromancers are overpowered, so I think people tend to pick them over sins time to time depending on the mission at hand.

I am just a little irritated by all the assassin- hate skills in arenas. It takes a bit more skills to play sins effectively in PvP than it used to, with skills like insidious parasite, shieldbash, disciplined stance, hexbreaker, empathy, mending touch etc becoming more common.