Why the avicara?

Why is it that you can't outrun Avicara anymore? Why would you release such an update, it's outrageous!! I run using sprint and rush for a good 8 to 10 seconds and they still are on my tail!! That has to be the stupidest update I've ever heard of. I don't know if the people who made GW actually play GW, but for those of us who do...this is a major annoyance. I can understand wanting to stop farming, so on and so on...but these updates are getting out of hand.

That update has been in place for quite a long time. It is not just the Avicara. I think a main reason was for it to cut down on running. Now that the enimies follow you longer there are less places for rests. But I don't really understand your question, if there even is one...

I agree 100% and am thinking of leaving the game. They repeatedly say they are not against farming, then they nerf the balls off of it. Lets see, lets change AOE, Thats not so bad. Then lets changes the way creatures act when taking damage. Again a little worse but still not to bad. Now lets change the way creatures pursue to the point where you can't run around anyone making running skills useless. I just love having to chase random NPC monks around trying to kill them for miles on the map while they arrgo every creature on all 3 continents. I swear i chased a monk boss from prophecies to Elona the other day. Man, just let us farm and have fun like we used to so this game does not get boring and we can still earn some decent coin without the urges that some have to just buy it from the Gold Bots.

Good bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

QFT

4567890

At some point, ANet needs to acknowledge <with more than words> that a large number of people play the game to participate in a legitimate in-game economy.

I understand that they wish to stop "extra-game" farmers, but any activity that ANet disrupts that isn't solely aimed at bots is going to hurt legitimate players.

Consider the items in the game that have a market, consider that people have disposable income in the end game; the farmers are filling a role in the game. Trade is one of the few surviving areas of the in-game community but it has been kept homeless on the streets.

One area where ANet has failed to formalize it's stance that a player economy is "important" to the game is in the lack of an Auction/Trade House function.

So, I can understand the OP's position and the idea that such changes are frustrating to players that want to farm game resources.

That was quite a rude comment above. My question is why they keep releasing updates that make the game less enjoyable. Check this...I was at the imp cave just a second ago, and I tried to outrun the Avicara Ardent and Wise for over 30 minutes. It didn't matter where I pulled them to, or how far i ran, the aggro just would not break. I can understand making the enemies chase you longer as more of a challenge, but it seems to be impossible. That's why its ridiculous. I would hope that the makers of GW would aim to please the players, and try to keep the game fun and enjoyable for everybody. When all these updates keep going against the players, it really causes people to have second thoughts about playing the game. You may say...good bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out. If that's the way business works, that's a poor attitude. Why would I purchase Nightfall and Factions if I know that at some point they will all be nerfed as well? Listen, i don't have a problem with a longer aggro, but at least make the ardent and wise somewhat breakable. That's all I want, not asking too much I don't think.

People like that are part of the problem. Just mindless drones that will do and accept anything thrown at them. If they are perfectly happy right now, there will be something nerfed in the near future that will affect them. Then they will make a thousand posts about how it sux or is not fair. Then we can reply to them in the same uncaring, mindless way.

I really appreciate the rude comments...the attitudes of the higher people in this forum suck. They don't care, that's the problem with guild wars. They don't care how updates affect the players. I truly agree that not alot of time was put into the overall economy of guild wars. Gold is required to do almost anything in GW. You need it to buy armor, weapons, etc...no avoiding it. Guild Wars used to be so different. Usually updates are meant to make the game more fun and enjoyable. In this case, they make the game so much harder and frustrating. I just don't see why everyone isn't frustrated with these updates. Not everyone plays GW for PVP. I personally like exploring and killing things, that's what I prefer. The whole PVE experience doesn't suck, but it's definitely not as enjoyable as it used to be. I just wish people would stop making stupid comments and start having a for-real discussion. I'm not trying to ruin the game, and no I'm trying to whine. I just wish that some of these crazy updates would be revised a bit.

the in game economy is nothing. It came from nothing it produces nothing its not enjoyable, indeed its agonizing to participate in. As far as I'm concerned Its not worth saving in any way. No matter how many gold resellers it removes from the game.

If every item in the game was a fixed price and available from NPCs it wouldn't matter at all... In fact it would provide MORE profit to players, not less. Because fixed pricing would also mean fixed sell prices. So if you get a gold max damage swd with 2 mods on it and go to the merchant or weaponsmith NPCs they would get realistic prices for them. Adversely go to a weponsmith and look for a equivalent weapon (that was traded in) and it would be priced similarly (Just like the original concept of the RUNE traders was suppose to work; {It didn't because of abuse of trade channel to create artificial inflation by the way}). Then the function of trade in all forms; the original abused spam in all chat, The legitimate trade chat channel, and the new (NEVER USED) Search trades function; becomes unnessesary.

I had hoped that the latest search function for trades would be used to make this a painless process but NO ONE uses it. And as such its become useless. Even though it crosses ALL districts and allows for easy listings of gear or materials for sell.

Truth be told the people that advocate for less trade options with NPCs are the same people that surprise surprise support gold resellers. Why? Because it makes them money. And this is blatantly against the EULA and the ROC they agreed too when they purchased and installed the game. As such any rights they have for continued access to Arenanets systems are Void! So Don't expect Anet to turn around and ALLOW it to continue forever or even at all.

It is a FACT that No item in the game Max or otherwise is unattainable. In fact they are readily available for little to nothing. And as such Nothing is worth what these PEOPLE, for want of a better less appropriate word, Say! Indeed almost every style of weapon with various mods can be archived for free from collectors, Or crafted for reasonable prices. And are no better then a Max gold or Green item when used in combat... And the various armors are affordable at max class rating, if not for free in the Crystal Desert from collectors.

Great so you bought some gold or farmed for months to afford Fissure armor.. Whoppty freaking doo.. Isn't a shame that any moron can still be your equivalent with 1k Kourna Armor, a few cheap runes, and some collector weapons? Congrats, You just wasted your time and Platinum for nothing but Vanity.

I'm sorry that PvE has deteriorated the way it has. And there is no argument that it has. Everyone agrees its Evolved into something that is not very productive most of the time. The game play is superior however as it poses a greater challenge to play. But the rewards are less worthy. I'm sure thats why they added a couple freebe chests and such not all that long ago, to give people a chance at some easy loot to use, but not produce a gold pit to be exploited by farmers. Once its used its used... Business done.

I believe that if they fix the formulas a little to make it that if you have a FULL NON-NPC party (this means no heroes or henchies and a party of 8) that PvE enjoyment will improve 100 Fold. As such it will Encourage more full party groups playing the game as opposed to lone wolf farming bots in parties of 1 with build of the month skill bars...

Many complain alot about the updates. Many say live with it. I have complained. I am told to use certain skills. Those skills were not yet available to me at that point of the game. So I go on and try to find someone, with the skills needed, to join me on my journies. Good Luck on being heard.

I was referring to XX for the insensitive comments, not you wilbur. I just see that ANet in an effort to stopping Bot farming are in fact pushing more people towards just buying gold. You see Bot farmers have nothing but time on there hands. So what if it takes them 10 hours to do what it used to take 3. That is there job. Now you have the casual player that may have 3 hours a weekend to play but really want max armor. I have played long enough where i have a decent amount of gold saved, but i am much more picky on what i buy because i will never be able to replenish. I used to farm stuff because it was fun and challenging, not impossible. And low and behold you could make money while you were at it.

Are the Avicara outside Droks enroute to the Troll Cave doing this too? I find it very simple just to get henchies to aggro them, flag them away, and let them die outside of the radar from where you're killing trolls. It's easy.

We are talking about the run to the Ice caves to farm for some IDS. I also use the heroes flag trick for the troll cave But the run to the Ice caves might be to much for the heroes i will have to try it.

Outside of the imp caves you can get spawns where they are easily avoidable. So just zone and redo it, or as the above said just use Heros if you have NF.

The update might suck, but it really didn't have that big of an impact realistically. You simply have to change your strategies. You needed to do specific things with specific skills to farm that area before, now you just need to change how you do it. There have been other updates in the past that changed the way it was done as well, so what you were doing before this latest update is different than what people were doing before a previous update. You just have to find the work around. I actually don't mind this as it makes the process a little less repetitive, though for only a short period of time. And since some people refuse to change what they are doing, it just means that there will be less of those items on the market, and should increase their value as such.

The only major change this update has had that I've noticed is that warriors can no longer do the Droks run, though their may be some super beasts out there that can still pull it off maybe, but I'd love to see a vid of that.

From what I've seen, though this might not be the case, I think Anet made this update as a way out. Before the update there were certain creatures that weren't breaking aggro correctly. Mostly in specifc areas. I think that they couldn't figure out why this was happening, so instead of spending the time to figure out how to fix it, they just decided that they would make it "ok" and cause all of those creatures to do the same thing everywhere. Thus it's no longer a bug, it's an update. Like I said before, I could be wrong, but that's the logical conclusion I have drawn from what I've read about it.

Technically speaking you should be killing those mobs anyway, thus it's far from game breaking. Farming is only really "needed" to acquire things in the game that you don't really need, like vanity armor, specific skins for weapons, mini-pets, or a heap of items for a title that can only be seen in certain areas when someone specifically clicks on you to check. Everything that you actually need in game can easily be acquired from the money gained through normal quest completion. Everything else is simply a matter of aesthetics.

Livingston

The Avicara Never Give Up!

Yeah because when I make a meteor storm appear above a marongite from another dimension all I care about is realism

As far as adapting with new builds, I have gone through well over 15 different builds on my monk/warrior/ranger. Either way I adapt to the updates, and I don't mind the updates. Like some of you, I do it for the challenge, not just gold. Not all avicara have the breaking aggro problem. From what I can tell, it's only the Ardent and Wise. I fought the group outside the imp cave for well over 20 minutes, trying to kill the ardent (Healer). He kept himself healed very well, so switched targets to a brave. Got the brave down to maybe 40 hp, then the ardent healed him instantly to almost max health. It's not that I'm trying to avoid it, but with their amazing healing and SOJ it's very difficult to fight them. Sometimes you need to be able to avoid certain groups, but the wise and ardent don't break aggro at all. They will chase you till kingdom come, which isn't very realistic. I can outrun Brave and Fierce, but not Wise and Ardent. On top of that, they place the group of Ice Imps and two avicara groups very close together, so there's no way of running around them.

Try re-reading his entire post. Do it slowly if you have to because you missed his entire point about realism.

I used to say the same whenever a person complains but I came to a realization that if we keep saying that then there wont be people playing GW anymore.

This sentence is not constructive at all anymore.

I disagree. we dont need people like this. I dont want them on my team, and i dont want to play against them. they will be rude either way.

i swear to god that the guys at anet in charge of the economy is smoking something...OR they are complete morons OR they are apes...
i ll take option C

ne how lets look at the reason for "farming nerfs"
we can all agree that it because of the countless bot/RL farmers who sell for cash.. agree? yes

now lets look at some sites that sell this gw gold... 100k=5.89 200k=$10
or 100k=6.79 200k=11.56

as you can see this is like minimum wage.. and theres NO WAY IN HELL w/ the crap job that analnet does at "farming updates" that you can get 100k in 1 hour...
so isnt it more beneficial fo a player to just pay the $6 and get 100k??
i think so

what anet is tryin 2 do nd stop farmers is actualy helping 'em
ive noticed that the number of gold selling sites have risen tremendously over tha past month...
so we'll let analnet decide..

if i wanted that on my pve.. id just pvp all day..
pve=pve it shudnt even resemble anything close to pvp..wel mayb just a little
[sarcasm]hey i got an idea! lets hire bunch of guys to actualy PLAY the monsters! ye play 'em so our good old buddy XX gets the reality he wants this way the monsters WILL be actin like humans [/sarcasm]

p.s im actualy pvp player.. i hate pve w/ a passion.. :P just soo boring

I know my words sound harsh, I'm trying not to be, but these seem to me to be how Anet looks at it in my view. So this is my opinion, not meant to be against anyone in particular. Up front, I don't do PvP, I don't farm (did when 55'ing started, but only briefly, didn't like it, too boring), I just do the PvE part. I don't have anything against people who do farm, run (I run guildies when needed), etc...

As has been said, farming is irrelevant when it comes to skill updates (reading not nerfs), it's the PvP end that is looked at. If it affects the other part of the game (PvE), then so be it. They might even try and balance that out between the two. But PvP and PvE is the game. Farming, running, etc... is something people might do IN the game, but it's not a part of the game, no matter what you (meaning whoever) choose to believe. I have nothing against farming or whatever, if people want to do that. There are lots of things people do IN the game, but as far as Anet is concerned, there is only 2 parts to the game.

You might try and convince them there is more to the game (so that they actually look at "it" when making skill balances), such as farming, running and such, but until they acknowledge such a thing, they won't care what their skill balances do to them. So maybe you need to constructively give them reasons why such things SHOULD be considered when doing skill balances (PvP will always be first in line, but they might at least consider how it's affecting other things). Be convincing without being insulting. Stick to facts, don't give blanket statements that you know aren't true and that give them reasons to ignore. I hope I'm helping, sorry if I'm not.

On a Side Note:

I love how a person who likes to do a certain thing (let's just say farming), and a skill update hurts their build or strategy or whatever, Anet is angering the players. They might affect (upset or whatever) a few people, but not the vast majority of users. YOU are not the GW community, just 1 person among many. So please only state that YOU are being hurt or angered. You can't speak for the GW Players.

/Applause
^This guy, get the idea.
@Bocterduke, whining i cant take, if you come on here and whine about something, i can understand that and maybe even dispute it with you,so we both get our points across, but if you are at a point you are threating to rage quit then sorry,but i don't have time for you.

@lilnate22 , hey its not my decision, its Anet even tho i like how it is now ( yes some of the things are annoying) but still i rather have the monsters how they are now then like headless chicken beating on me while SS is on them.

Not only that, but their "fix" will generally at least tick others off, usually WAY more than what ever made them mad to begin with. This is what tends to separate good managers from bad ones - the ability to see past themselves and their own wants (and is also why many never move into management - a complete inability to do that). The majority of peoples "perfect" game mechanics would have VERY few players because it only appeals to one small segment they stay in (which is, of course, everyone they know and thus the whole gaming community).

Anet doesn't want to loose customers, they do not hate any segments of the game. They do what they feel will get them the largest group. If making 51% of the game happy makes 49% mad - well sucks to be in the 49%.

I haven't been very happy with the farming updates - "hardcore" farmers move right along. Casual ones like me have had to greatly change our method of farming and, quite frankly, it isn't nearly as money making. But then, I know that the majority of the gamers fit two bills: hardcore PvP and casual PvE (that is - playing the game) and the skill/AI changes are great for them. I adapted, no big deal. I still can not afford FoW, I still can afford Vabbian - just my earning range shifted more towards "vabbian" as the max armor I can get. In fact, while it has closed some areas I could previously farm it has opened up others.

This type of ranting has been around since I started now 20 months ago and I suspect it was pretty much there in the few months after release to when I joined also. Guilds are dieing, no one plays, updates has driven everyone off, and no fun anywhere in the game all followed by increased sales. Usally those same people are still griding away at whatever it was the update caused them to pause their grind for, oblivious to the fact that they are/were totally wrong (and get really indignant when one points it out - the failure is always the next chapter away and they are correct *this* time and it is *totally* different). I also suspect it will *always* be that way - even in whatever the next game is.

thats true and i agree wit u.. but theres fine line between headless chikens and all out near perfect human like players... even YOU must agree attempting to kill a monk boss that runs for a long time is annoying...

I do find it annoying , i curse at them so bad that my neighbors start banging on the wall.

then there ya go...
i mean im not hating on pve or anything but..
its SO DAMN EZ! lets just put it this way.. pve is for mostly the new people to the game or people that doesnt have the proper skill for pvp..
a pvp player will 99.9% the time be good at both pvp and pve.. but a pve is player that can pwn the game in like a day or w/e isnt realy gona be good at both pvp and pve.. we can all agree that pvp i much harder than pvp


how ever its exactly this.. pve isnt SUPPOSED to be complicated... its for the enjoyment of all a new player to gw should not be trubled by pve like pvp does

but NOOOOO all the "updates" make pve as hard as if not HARDER that pvp
no realy.. i mean it..

ive beaten HoH cuple timez..but still farmin now to get sum muulah still seems to get the eter of me..

I completely agree with Masseur.

Farming, running, etc is all part of different players' perceptions of how to play in PvE. PvE ought to evolve as time passes or the game would simply become boring, like many old console games sitting in our basements which were addicting then but lost their favor due to their repetitive nature.

PvE wasn't designed to be run or farmed, that was made more evident with the release of Factions. I've seen lvl 4 characters in Ember Light Camp buying and capping skills, that's just not right. In Factions you have to progress through the storyline as intended to access missions and outposts.

Make your four or six man farm teams for the Underworld or other high-level areas, but don't spam then complain when it's taken away.

najea...its true that its not what pve is MENT to be...but lets look at the big picture here...

john doe makes 100k a day farming/running people (both witch takes skill)
anet dumps the nerf-bomber nerfing running/ farming to hell

john doe no longer makes 100k a day but a mere 1k-ish (just to point argument out)

john doe heres about a gold selling site... 100k for $6 ... that like a hours worth of pay...

take a wild guess what john does gona do...

p.s do note i HATE pve...

Actually Wilbertwoot who started this post said "That was quite a rude comment above. My question is why they keep releasing updates that make the game less enjoyable. Check this...I was at the imp cave just a second ago, and I tried to outrun the Avicara Ardent and Wise for over 30 minutes."


I was at the same place a little earlier that night, and i might add first time since the change and thought holy cow. I of course will change my tactics and try again. That is the challenge of the game. I was just venting some new frustration and not trying to make any enemies. I just wish people would contribute to the discussion instead of being people. So yes XX you were right and i would never buy any gold. I have played along time (17months) and all but 1 of my character are already established with everything they need (from various other farming, past and present). I was saying it will drive new players to stoop to these levels. I love this game and will continue to play no matter what they throw at me. I will try other games coming out (LOTR online and Warhammer) but i am sure i will continue to play GW. Sorry Wilbur for turning your topic into this!

I enjoy all of the AI updates I've experienced other than the refusal to drop aggro in Lornar's Pass. It makes PvE much more interesting and provides the opportunity to use some tactics and strategy in that aspect of the game. Farming is the worst sort of boring, yielding primarily individual gain, but I'm impressed by those who figure out ways to do it. I'd never willing sacrifice another aspect of the game to facilitate it. Running is an interesting challenge and good runners possess impressive skill and command my respect. But again, its an individual. Its not worth sacrificing any other aspect of the game to faciliate their ability.

Guild Wars is designed as a team game. If changes improve team play they are good changes, regardless of how they impact solo activities. If you want to use Guild Wars for solo activities, go command our respect by figuring out a way to make it work with the tools you're given. If something is broken, submit a bug report or present a reasoned, logical and polite description for public discussion. Empassioned outbursts about how your fun has been ruined and threats to leave the game work against you.

"RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO"

Explain please?

Anyway, I'm sympathetic with you wilburgtwoot, but I don't think there's anything that we can do, or if ANet really wants to Avicara to be like this, anything that anybody will do. I'm sorry

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO is what is replaced with a cuss word.

Actually its the other way around, a cuss word gets replaced with that.

I totally agree. Very nicely put, lorinton.

uhh... hi. reading through some of the reply and stuff (well, some of them...). I jus wanna say something.

GW is a game that was made so people could enjoy MMORPG's and the other stuff so U DONT HAVE TO PAY MONTHLY. I totaly like this game than the other wannube's that rip u off.

GW does the update to make things balance out (u dont want something to be overpowering because everything else tends to fall apart "unbalanced").

GW tend to nerf stuff not because they want u to hate the game. It gives u new ideas to try other things and other tactics to use in either farming or running.

GW is working hard for the games to be able to enjoy the game. "I was doing a mission once when a couple of chars were talking about how GW is having a hard time trying to bring the new campaign out because too many complaints are being taken care of". Im not saying its true, i jus heard them talking about it.

Pls... no more of that rude stuff. Sit back and enjoy the game (or at least try)

To think, a while back ANet said they had nothing against people getting runs. Yet they added gates in Factions and now the aggro is on longer, even activating well outside of the "Danger Zone".

give up farming if they want to keep jacking with it, buy it from the gold farmers. 1 mil gold for like 30 bucks. sounds like a good deal.