As I said before, I don't need the best of the best. We're talking about my system running gw, not talking about the best possible everything in existance.
Remember that.
I need opinions! New pc
Dahl
Empedocles
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Originally Posted by Dahl
By the way, is a x1950 too powerful for a 500w ps? I know a lot of places overkill on ps just to be on the safe side and everything, but I'm on a 450w right on on my junker and my GF5500 blew up. I dunno if it even had anything to do with the ps, or maybe it was defective cause I had just bought it a few weeks beforehand. I don't know.
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. Of course, if you happen to have 6 hard drives and three optical drives and 10 fans, then you might want some leeway and have a bit more powerful psu
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Dex
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Originally Posted by Mushroom
I agree with most of what you are saying. Having been in this industry for over 20 years, I have seen video cards come and go. And I always thought it was foolish to invest large dollars into either newly emerging technology, or in technology that is on it's way out.
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Originally Posted by Mushroom
In my store, I am reccomending that people not go above the range of the X1300 512 MB (or equivelent) video card. These are a great card for the money, play just about anything you want at the moment, and are cheap enough where you will not think to hard about replacing it with a DirectX 10 card when they hit "mainstream".
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Originally Posted by Mushroom
Sure the X1950 is great, but it is also "old technology". And unless you have bottomless pockets, it is rather foolish to spend a large amount of money for video card(s) that are going to be totally eclipsed within the next 6 months.
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Originally Posted by Mushroom
In fact, I predict that within 6 months, a DirectX 10 card will cost within $50 of the price of an X1950 today. And the X1950 will more then likely be roughly half the cost of the card today. That has been the general trend for the last 20 years, and I don't see it changing any time soon.
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Mushroom
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Originally Posted by Dex
I've been doing the system building thing for about 13 years myself. Thing is, isn't all technology sort of "on its way out" by the time the next big thing is released? I think that DX9 hardware has quite a bit of life left in it. Most of the hardware being sold today is not DX10 hardware.
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Just under a year ago, we were selling a lot of Socket 754/939 systems. And in every case, I suggested that people might want to wait for AM2. But a lot of them simply wanted to buy the best that day, without waiting. Now we are starting to see them trickle in, wanting to upgrade. And needless to say, a lot are upset when I tell them what it would cost to go to AM2 (and going from 478 to 775 is no different).
Most components have a good long lifespan, 3-5+ years. But as things get closer to the "next gen", it startes to get to be foolish to invest money on something that is definately going out soon. I built my current system just over 2 years ago, right before PCIe was prevelent. So until my next upgrade I am stuck with AGP. But I got a decent card, and am happy with it's performance (even under Vista).
One thing that is unusual in the last 2-3 years is that we had a lot of technology become obsolete at once. 32 bit processors, single core processors, IDE drives, AGP video bus, and DDR Ram all have gone out the window since 2004. The last time I probably saw this much go out in such a short amount of time was in 1994-1995, when the 80486, ISA, EISA, VLB, SIMM/SIPP, and the AT form factor all went obsolete. Before then, it was probably around 1988, when the old XT system went obsolete, and AT required almost new everything. The only thing missing this time is the new form factor, since BTX died bacause of non-acceptance and an improved layout for ATX boards solved a lot of the heat issues.
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Originally Posted by Dex
First, I wouldn't bother with 512MB of video memory with an x1300.
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We currently sell the 512 MB X1300 card for $115. We sold the 256 MB version (HyperMemory 256-512) until 2 months ago for $100. We finally built the last 256 MB card into a system, because nobody wanted to buy it when for $15 more, they could get double the RAM. Even if it is not used very often, it is a good investment of $15.
Dahl
This thread is quickly turning into "what is the best in the world" When really, all this thread was for is "Will this pc run guild wars on max settings" Guild wars is Guild wars, and won't require anything bigger to run smooth. It won't become harder and harder to run things smoothly on max settings.
All I really wanted to know if that junker system would run it properly, and it wouldnt. So I did research and found components that greatly exceed gw's requirements. I'd suggest making a new thread for discussing what is perfect and what's not.
All I really wanted to know if that junker system would run it properly, and it wouldnt. So I did research and found components that greatly exceed gw's requirements. I'd suggest making a new thread for discussing what is perfect and what's not.
Dex
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Originally Posted by Mushroom
That may or may not be. But I know that the price difference from our wholeseller is only around $12. For $12, I am sure that most people would pay the extra to go from 256 to 512 MB RAM.
We currently sell the 512 MB X1300 card for $115. We sold the 256 MB version (HyperMemory 256-512) until 2 months ago for $100. We finally built the last 256 MB card into a system, because nobody wanted to buy it when for $15 more, they could get double the RAM. Even if it is not used very often, it is a good investment of $15. |
http://www.hardwarelogic.com/news/61...006-04-28.html
As you can see, in most cases the x1300Pro with 512MB or memory was slower than the one with 256MB. It makes a bit of difference when you crank the AA and AF, but in most games cranking the AA and AF is going to bring a x1300 to its knees anyway. This, currently, is an architectural reality of pairing a GPU with more video memory than it is powerful enough to effectively use. I've found this to be true in most cases (you really need at least a Radeon x18XX or x19XX or GeForce 78XX or 79XX to effectively use 512MB). I'm not finding it now (I will), but I recently came across some benches showing that moving from an x1600 256MB to a x1600 512MB results in a net loss of ~5-8 fps in Oblivion. Presumably the GPU is attempting to utilize the 512MB and actually slowing itself down trying to bite off more data than it can chew.
More video memory only results in better performance when:
1. The game uses large (or many) textures and it becomes advantageous to cache more data in the video memory.
2. The GPU is powerful enough to process that amount of data at a rate wherein the texture processing and memory management doesn't interfere with its other rendering tasks.
dansamy
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Originally Posted by Dahl
So then no one who plays any sort of online game can play their games without buying a $600 video card? That's a little farfetched, as, like I said, I'm on a geforce2 mx400, 64mb, which is a card from what, 1995? And I'm running guild wars.
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Dahl
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Originally Posted by dansamy
I never said anywhere (nor did I imply) that you wouldn't be able to play smoothly without a $600 card. Personally, the downstairs PC is running a budget card and the upstairs is the cheap-arse eMachines. Downstairs will get upgraded (or replaced) after the upstairs machine is replaced with a custom built. I think it's a GeForce 6600 or 7600, neither of which are pricey. I currently run GW on max at 45fps in most areas.
I think you have your priorities a wee bit screwed up. |
I just started rolling in the money, and I think I deserve a little bit of fun before I buckle down and use my money for more important things.
My priorities are just fine exactly the way they are. I have computer skills, I have writing skills, I have cooking skills, I'm good with kids, good with women, and I have a pretty bright future. I wouldn't be pampering myself if I didn't think I could handle it later on.
Not that anyone needed any insight on my personal life.
And yes, I was implying that you were saying it's a requirement because you're making a huge deal out of something with an immense amount of diminishing value. a jump from $200 to $600 when really both cards will work EXACTLY the same on guild wars? It's not like it can run BETTER than perfect.
I would be perfectly happy running gw on dx9. In fact, I won't be buying a dx10 card until 1) ATI releases their version of the 8800 generation card and 2) That ATI card drops severely in price, it seems that after a short while they drop to about half? That's when I'll pick it up. I don't need to stay on the very edge of technology.
Can we drop the subject of the video card though? I've made up my mind about the sapphire ati x1950 pro. Let us please get on with our lives.
dansamy
I didn't make a huge deal out of it. I suggested a DX10 card that's currently available so that you wouldn't need to upgrade it later when you started to play DX10 games. (That of course assumes you are going to play other games besides GW.) It was merely a suggestion, which I promptly dropped after it was clear that you preferred to keep the ATI card. The last 2 pages have been other people discussing the merits of DX10-capable cards now vs later.
Mushroom
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Originally Posted by Dahl
This thread is quickly turning into "what is the best in the world" When really, all this thread was for is "Will this pc run guild wars on max settings" Guild wars is Guild wars, and won't require anything bigger to run smooth. It won't become harder and harder to run things smoothly on max settings.
All I really wanted to know if that junker system would run it properly, and it wouldnt. So I did research and found components that greatly exceed gw's requirements. I'd suggest making a new thread for discussing what is perfect and what's not. |
The system has an Asus motherboard, and that is always good.
I would look at an X1950 with 512 MB, not 256 MB. Better yet, get a cheaper card for the moment, and in a month or so get the X2900.
Unless you have one hell of a speaker system (and do not plan on useing Vista), skip the Sound Blaster card. Even though I use one (for high level audio recording), I am not a fan of "add on sound cards". The on-board are good enough for 80% of the users. If you want a remote, simply get XP Media Center or Vista Premium, and get an MS approved remote.
And one of the things not mentioned is the OS. XP, Media Center, and Vista all have slightly different "sweet spots", and knowing which you plan on useing can help determine what other changes might be suggested.
The case is a somewhat mixed bag. I have worked with that case myself, and was not really impressed with it. It may look cool, but there are 10 cases I would reccomend over that. After all, is the most important thing looking cool, or having a good solid case?
http://techgage.com/article/antec_nine_hundred/3
I am going to throw out something I always do if somebody is looking for a "Customized Computer". And that is to check out your local computer stores. You might be surprised at what they can build, and for what cost. This also has the added bonus of in the even tof something going wrong, they are close to you. The internet is full of horror stories of people who got screwed by on-line venders that did not deliver as promised, or who folded within months of making a purchase.
Empedocles
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Originally Posted by Mushroom
OK, back to the original system specs.
The system has an Asus motherboard, and that is always good. Unless you have one hell of a speaker system (and do not plan on useing Vista), skip the Sound Blaster card. Even though I use one (for high level audio recording), I am not a fan of "add on sound cards". The on-board are good enough for 80% of the users. If you want a remote, simply get XP Media Center or Vista Premium, and get an MS approved remote. |
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| I would look at an X1950 with 512 MB, not 256 MB. Better yet, get a cheaper card for the moment, and in a month or so get the X2900. |
Also, @Dahl, you can save quite a bit if you buy c2d 4300 or 4400 and overclock them just a tad, thus making them as fast as non-clocked 6400.
dansamy
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| After all, is the most important thing looking cool, or having a good solid case? |
Dex
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Originally Posted by Mushroom
OK, back to the original system specs.
The system has an Asus motherboard, and that is always good. <snip> Unless you have one hell of a speaker system (and do not plan on useing Vista), skip the Sound Blaster card. Even though I use one (for high level audio recording), I am not a fan of "add on sound cards". The on-board are good enough for 80% of the users. If you want a remote, simply get XP Media Center or Vista Premium, and get an MS approved remote. |
On the sound card...well...I personally do have a good speaker system (z-5500), but even if I didn't I would still buy a sound card with a dedicated DSP. First of all, you can get a decent one quite cheaply, and second, I hate it that onboard sound handles signal processing using your CPU when for <$40 you can set it free of that task. Most onboard sound does use a significant amount of CPU resources. Certain games (again, I'll reference Oblivion) have a pretty difficult time with some onboard audio CODECs. People with certain kinds of onboard sound have been known to be forced to use mods that disable some of the in-game audio because of large framerate drops caused by their onboard audio. I'm not saying it's a must...especially for Guild Wars. It's just a personal preference of mine. I don't like my CPU bogged down with tasks that really aren't its job...
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Originally Posted by Empedocles
In regards of most of the games run in 1600x1200 or smaller, going ftom 256 to 512 isn't too smart, smarter is to buy X1950 XT (not XTX, which is more expensive) instead of X1950 pro 512Mb, if you want to spend that extra 30-50$ money. That being said, it might speed up the games a little if you have a very large display, 24" and onwards. For instance, I run GW on x1950 pro 256Mb on max settings, 1600x1200 and the average fps is about 90.
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Dahl
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Originally Posted by Mushroom
OK, back to the original system specs.
The system has an Asus motherboard, and that is always good. I would look at an X1950 with 512 MB, not 256 MB. Better yet, get a cheaper card for the moment, and in a month or so get the X2900. Unless you have one hell of a speaker system (and do not plan on useing Vista), skip the Sound Blaster card. Even though I use one (for high level audio recording), I am not a fan of "add on sound cards". The on-board are good enough for 80% of the users. If you want a remote, simply get XP Media Center or Vista Premium, and get an MS approved remote. And one of the things not mentioned is the OS. XP, Media Center, and Vista all have slightly different "sweet spots", and knowing which you plan on useing can help determine what other changes might be suggested. The case is a somewhat mixed bag. I have worked with that case myself, and was not really impressed with it. It may look cool, but there are 10 cases I would reccomend over that. After all, is the most important thing looking cool, or having a good solid case? http://techgage.com/article/antec_nine_hundred/3 I am going to throw out something I always do if somebody is looking for a "Customized Computer". And that is to check out your local computer stores. You might be surprised at what they can build, and for what cost. This also has the added bonus of in the even tof something going wrong, they are close to you. The internet is full of horror stories of people who got screwed by on-line venders that did not deliver as promised, or who folded within months of making a purchase. |
And by the way.. I won't be getting this stuff for a little while. It'll be about 3 months before I have all the parts I mentioned up there. Oh and by the way I'm NOT getting vista.
Dex
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Originally Posted by Dahl
See now there's an idea. Get a cheaper card now and get the dx10 one later, as opposed to buying the best now AND the best later. So what do you figure is a good card to buy that will run gw on max settings with a high fps, but less costly than the x1950?
And by the way.. I won't be getting this stuff for a little while. It'll be about 3 months before I have all the parts I mentioned up there. Oh and by the way I'm NOT getting vista. |
Oh, and I don't recommend buying your parts a little at a time. Buy them all at once. Prices continue to go down, so buying some now and some later is a mistake.
Dahl
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Originally Posted by Dex
My favorite ~$100 GPU is the GeForce 7600GT. You could also go with a x1600xt or x1600 Pro, but the 7600GT seems to bench a little better in most games. I'd take the 7600GT over any of the x1600 flavors, and it would run Guild Wars very nicely. If you go up from there you might as well just go with the x1950 Pro. IMHO the 7900GT isn't worth $200 when you can have the far superior x1950xt for just a little more. I wouldn't go below a 7600GT or x1600. I don't think you'll be happy with the performance with a non-gamer's card if you're looking to run with high settings.
Oh, and I don't recommend buying your parts a little at a time. Buy them all at once. Prices continue to go down, so buying some now and some later is a mistake. |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ-LCM84puo
Note that this isn't MY game or my system or my character. This is just extremely similar to my game performance. It's slightly smoother in explorable areas. It's BRUTALLY choppy in factions, nightfall isn't so bad.
I played with that kind of performance in places like DoA and The Deep, and still did well. I was also in a top guild a long while back when I was into Gvg. I'm surprised I was good as I was running like that, but I got so used to it.
So I figure, hey, if I buy ram and a video card first, I can stick them into my junker pc now so I can at least play a BIT better now. Ya know? But my GF5500 blew up after only a few weeks of playing (note that my ps is 450w) and I'm petrified to put anything good in this system now cause I keep thinking it'll blow up too. Aghhh.
dansamy
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Originally Posted by Dahl
So I figure, hey, if I buy ram and a video card first, I can stick them into my junker pc now so I can at least play a BIT better now. Ya know? But my GF5500 blew up after only a few weeks of playing (note that my ps is 450w) and I'm petrified to put anything good in this system now cause I keep thinking it'll blow up too. Aghhh.
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eggrolls
yeah. since you're still using an old agp based board, you probably can't buy any of the parts now and just stick it into the pc. new ram, cpu, and vid card won't work without a new motherboard, meaning you will have replace all four at the same time. the only things you can buy and replace right now would be the hard drive (provided you have SATA) and the PSU (which might improve stability if your current one is giving you problems), but neither would make GW run any faster.
Dex
dansamy and eggrolls are right about that. New hardware is most likely going to be a total platform update for you. I doubt your old system can use DDR2 (the type of RAM you want) or PCI-Express 16x (the type of video card interface you want), and your PSU would most likely not handle a x1950.
Dahl
My current system believe it or not is really not all that old. It's just that my mom and brother were stupid enough to buy junk components like the video card and whatnot. To be honest I'm not quite sure what this system's specs are besides 2.2 ghz and 512 mb ram. I know it's a 120 gb HD.
When we bought this, I didn't know first thing about computer hardware, and to be honest I didn't know much more than that when I started this thread. I've done a lot of research though, I've had friends help, and I think I've come a long way in the past couple of days.
I'm not too sure what to do though because 3 more months of this garbage performance and I'll be out a head of hair. lol.
When we bought this, I didn't know first thing about computer hardware, and to be honest I didn't know much more than that when I started this thread. I've done a lot of research though, I've had friends help, and I think I've come a long way in the past couple of days.
I'm not too sure what to do though because 3 more months of this garbage performance and I'll be out a head of hair. lol.
Dex
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Originally Posted by Dahl
My current system believe it or not is really not all that old. It's just that my mom and brother were stupid enough to buy junk components like the video card and whatnot. To be honest I'm not quite sure what this system's specs are besides 2.2 ghz and 512 mb ram. I know it's a 120 gb HD.
When we bought this, I didn't know first thing about computer hardware, and to be honest I didn't know much more than that when I started this thread. I've done a lot of research though, I've had friends help, and I think I've come a long way in the past couple of days. I'm not too sure what to do though because 3 more months of this garbage performance and I'll be out a head of hair. lol. |
Dahl
Actually believe it or not it has both pci and agp. Unusual system. Heh ,you should see my monitor too. Really weird, it doesn't just sit on the desk :P
Dex
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Originally Posted by Dahl
Actually believe it or not it has both pci and agp. Unusual system. Heh ,you should see my monitor too. Really weird, it doesn't just sit on the desk :P
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Pretty much all AGP boards have PCI slots, but there were only a few boards ever made that have AGP and PCI-Express 16x slots.
moriz
actually, PCI-e is 2x faster than AGP 8x, which is the latest incarnation of AGP. the original AGP 1x is at least 15 years old.
here's some comparisons:
PCI-e is x160 faster than PCI
AGP is x80 faster than PCI
here's some comparisons:
PCI-e is x160 faster than PCI
AGP is x80 faster than PCI
Dex
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Originally Posted by moriz
actually, PCI-e is 2x faster than AGP 8x, which is the latest incarnation of AGP. the original AGP 1x is at least 15 years old.
here's some comparisons: PCI-e is x160 faster than PCI AGP is x80 faster than PCI |
PCI-Express 16x > AGP (ALL AGP) > PCI
(Don't get me started on VESA Local Bus
)If you're buying a new video card you want PCI-Express 16x.
tijo
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Originally Posted by Dex
The point being:
PCI-Express 16x > AGP (ALL AGP) > PCI (Don't get me started on VESA Local Bus )If you're buying a new video card you want PCI-Express 16x. |
Dahl
I never said anything about buying a PCI video card, ever.
I said I have both agp and pci slots, that might mean pci-e, I don't really know. I just know I have 2 different slot types, and there are only 2 (real) types of slots. Therefore one type must be from the agp family and one type must be from the pci family. It might be pci, and it might be pci-e. I know the difference between the two, but I don't know which one I actually HAVE right now.
Like I said before, I don't know ANYTHING in detail about this system at all. It was bought when I had no computer knowledge at all.
Please do me a favor and read my posts a little better, I never said I was buying a regular PCI card, ever, not even remotely hinted at it.
I said I have both agp and pci slots, that might mean pci-e, I don't really know. I just know I have 2 different slot types, and there are only 2 (real) types of slots. Therefore one type must be from the agp family and one type must be from the pci family. It might be pci, and it might be pci-e. I know the difference between the two, but I don't know which one I actually HAVE right now.
Like I said before, I don't know ANYTHING in detail about this system at all. It was bought when I had no computer knowledge at all.
Please do me a favor and read my posts a little better, I never said I was buying a regular PCI card, ever, not even remotely hinted at it.
Dex
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Originally Posted by Dahl
I never said anything about buying a PCI video card, ever.
I said I have both agp and pci slots, that might mean pci-e, I don't really know. I just know I have 2 different slot types, and there are only 2 (real) types of slots. Therefore one type must be from the agp family and one type must be from the pci family. It might be pci, and it might be pci-e. I know the difference between the two, but I don't know which one I actually HAVE right now. Like I said before, I don't know ANYTHING in detail about this system at all. It was bought when I had no computer knowledge at all. Please do me a favor and read my posts a little better, I never said I was buying a regular PCI card, ever, not even remotely hinted at it. |
The point that I was trying to make is that it's very unlikely that you have both an AGP slot and a PCI-Express 16x slot. Not impossible, but not likely. It is far more likely that you have an AGP slot and one or more plain old PCI slots. There were only a handful of chipsets ever created for desktops that support AGP and PCI-Express simultaneously (one by SiS, one by VIA, and some custom solutions hacked onto Intel chipsets), and so few boards were made based on them that you'd be hard-pressed to even find one nowadays. Having AGP and PCI is common (nearly mandatory). Having AGP and PCI-Express is not.
So, please don't be offended. I did read your post. I just wanted to make the point that if you have an AGP slot it's unlikely that your plan to upgrade the video card in your current system would pan out.
Dahl
If I knew it couldn't be a PCI-e slot though, do you think I'd waste the money on a card? lol. I don't have a lot of hardware knowledge but I have common sense. I'm not like most ignorant users that go out and buy whatever looks good without planning things out.
Look at this thread for example. If I was anyone else, I'd have bought that piece of garbage from Tiger, but I did research instead.
It's kind of funny going to tiger now. I saw a similar PC (with slightly less features than the one im building, and a garbage case) for about 2,400$ while mine, which is going to be considerably better, with a better case, and just about better everything, for about $1469. Most of your money isn't even going towards the components themselves when you buy from tiger or future shop or staples. Half of your money is paying for the component, and half your money is paying for the box and the pretty shiny pictures and the booklet and the little bells and whistles that come with it.
I know how amazing pci-e is, and yes I actually say pci-"E" when I tell people. But this time, I simply did not know what I had. I just knew I had two different coloured slots.
I'm not offended, I just don't wanna be spoken to like I'm some ignorant cash-happy sucker. I realize the difference between the two but the names are so similar. I know the performance of the two are lightyears apart but the names are similar, so therefore in my mind, they are from the same family, the same company, manufacturer. an ATI x1600 is still the same family as an ati x1950, because it's ati. Family is still family, regardless of it's <b>generation.</b>
Look at this thread for example. If I was anyone else, I'd have bought that piece of garbage from Tiger, but I did research instead.
It's kind of funny going to tiger now. I saw a similar PC (with slightly less features than the one im building, and a garbage case) for about 2,400$ while mine, which is going to be considerably better, with a better case, and just about better everything, for about $1469. Most of your money isn't even going towards the components themselves when you buy from tiger or future shop or staples. Half of your money is paying for the component, and half your money is paying for the box and the pretty shiny pictures and the booklet and the little bells and whistles that come with it.
I know how amazing pci-e is, and yes I actually say pci-"E" when I tell people. But this time, I simply did not know what I had. I just knew I had two different coloured slots.
I'm not offended, I just don't wanna be spoken to like I'm some ignorant cash-happy sucker. I realize the difference between the two but the names are so similar. I know the performance of the two are lightyears apart but the names are similar, so therefore in my mind, they are from the same family, the same company, manufacturer. an ATI x1600 is still the same family as an ati x1950, because it's ati. Family is still family, regardless of it's <b>generation.</b>
Dahl
**** gg guildwars guru. This time, make forums that work. ****
Dex
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Originally Posted by Dahl
I'm not offended, I just don't wanna be spoken to like I'm some ignorant cash-happy sucker.
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I wouldn't presume that you're going to do anything. You stated that you'd like to upgrade the video card in your current machine and carry it over into your new machine later. I told you why that wasn't likely to be a viable option. Why is it that you're taking that personally? I don't get what you're taking issue with. Sorry.
Dahl
I'm not taking anything personally, I just have a thing with people talking down to me, and that's how it sounded.
I don't necessarily want to carry a video card from this pc to my new one I suppose. I just need a little something. Did you watch that video? It's not very fun to play the game on specs like that and I thought I would just make the next few months a little more enjoyable. Waiting a quarter of a year to upgrade doesn't sound like much fun to me..
I don't necessarily want to carry a video card from this pc to my new one I suppose. I just need a little something. Did you watch that video? It's not very fun to play the game on specs like that and I thought I would just make the next few months a little more enjoyable. Waiting a quarter of a year to upgrade doesn't sound like much fun to me..
dansamy
It may not be much fun, but it's the best option outside of buying a basic off-the-shelf and adding video and RAM as needed.
Mushroom
If you plan on doing this upgrade yourself "One Piece At A Time", you should make the case your first purchase. Normally, it is the only major item (other then optical drives) that you can move from one system to another.
And I warn and caution people all the time, do not go to cheap on the case, and look it over carefully. Make sure you get at least a 450 watt power supply as a minimum. And that it has proper cooling. That means either a 120mm fan or 2 80mm fans in both the front and the back. The fans in the front should be in a position so they can blow directly over the hard drives.
A surprisingly large number of cases skip this basic area. 5 years ago, 5400 rpm was the standard, and those normally did OK without extra cooling. However, the vast majority of hard drives start at 7200 rpm, and go to 10,000 rpm and higher. Without proper cooling, these drives can fail very quickly (like within 3-6 months). They literally "cook themselves to death".
Side mount and top mount fans are nice, but not as critical as those mounted in the front and rear. And always max the fans in a case. I call them "cheap insurance". spending an extra $10 for fans is much easier then spending $100 for a new hard drive.
If you are not planning on getting the video card for several months, leave that for last. Odds are there will be some changes between then and now, which may make changes in reccomended items.
You might want to simply start with a motherboard with ATI or NVidia graphics onboard. This can tide you over until you get the card you want. In fact, I reccomend ATI and NVidia chipsets, with Via comming in third. I never reccomend Intel chipsets, I have found far to many problems with them to ever reccomend.
And I warn and caution people all the time, do not go to cheap on the case, and look it over carefully. Make sure you get at least a 450 watt power supply as a minimum. And that it has proper cooling. That means either a 120mm fan or 2 80mm fans in both the front and the back. The fans in the front should be in a position so they can blow directly over the hard drives.
A surprisingly large number of cases skip this basic area. 5 years ago, 5400 rpm was the standard, and those normally did OK without extra cooling. However, the vast majority of hard drives start at 7200 rpm, and go to 10,000 rpm and higher. Without proper cooling, these drives can fail very quickly (like within 3-6 months). They literally "cook themselves to death".
Side mount and top mount fans are nice, but not as critical as those mounted in the front and rear. And always max the fans in a case. I call them "cheap insurance". spending an extra $10 for fans is much easier then spending $100 for a new hard drive.
If you are not planning on getting the video card for several months, leave that for last. Odds are there will be some changes between then and now, which may make changes in reccomended items.
You might want to simply start with a motherboard with ATI or NVidia graphics onboard. This can tide you over until you get the card you want. In fact, I reccomend ATI and NVidia chipsets, with Via comming in third. I never reccomend Intel chipsets, I have found far to many problems with them to ever reccomend.
Dex
On the hard drive subject, I'd go with a 7200rpm drive. The 10,000rpm drives simply don't offer all that fantastic a performance increase over fast 7200rpm drives right now. I'd much rather have a more reliable drive than 1/2 a second shorter level load times. A lot of people will tell you that you have to get a Raptor, but I strongly disagree. A friend of mine has had 2 well-cooled Raptors die over the past year in the same system. Especially if games are your focus, a Raptor isn't worth 4-times the price of a 7200.10 (on 150/160 GB drives):
http://techreport.com/reviews/2006q2...0/index.x?pg=5
The impact on overall system performance is miniscule between a Raptor and a good 7200rpm drive like the Seagate 7200.10's or some of the WD Caviars. Save yourself a significant amount of money and just opt for a good 7200rpm drive with a 5-year warranty. The Seagate 7200.10's offer outstanding bang for the buck. Raptors are great if you simply must have the best of the best and money is no object...even then you're paying a lot for little performance.
http://techreport.com/reviews/2006q2...0/index.x?pg=5
The impact on overall system performance is miniscule between a Raptor and a good 7200rpm drive like the Seagate 7200.10's or some of the WD Caviars. Save yourself a significant amount of money and just opt for a good 7200rpm drive with a 5-year warranty. The Seagate 7200.10's offer outstanding bang for the buck. Raptors are great if you simply must have the best of the best and money is no object...even then you're paying a lot for little performance.
myst1k
Stuff i would change if i were you,
Hard Drive - Seagate 320GB sata2, then make 300local/20backup
RAM - Corsair XMS2 2GB DDRII 800 Mhz PC2-6400
MotherBoard - P5B DLX WIFI
CPU -C2D E6600+
Case - Antec Nine Hundred Gaming Tower 200M Fan(Seems a fine case)
Power Supply - OCZ GameXStream 600W ATX12V SLI ready
Video Card - XFX 7600 GT pci-e
Sound Card - intergrated, until you get more cash later on.
Cd-ROM - Cd-ROM/Dvd Player/Dvd burner all-in-one.
IMO this system has 3 things better than the one you are thinking about:
1st: better cpu, e6600 oced can smoke an FX-62
2nd: cheaper card so when the next gen cards come(soon) you wont loose money like buying a x1950, then you would upgrade and sell the 7600gt.
3rd: better PSU, lower HDD since 500gb is too much for a gamer, or atleast too much to start with.
4th: intergrated sounds, upgrade it if you get a 50$ somewhere or you see a card going cheap. since its not that important performance gain.
why i made a system like this= upgrade friendly+ you wont regret for buying more expensive stuff if newer things come out.
good luck and enjoy your new rig
Hard Drive - Seagate 320GB sata2, then make 300local/20backup
RAM - Corsair XMS2 2GB DDRII 800 Mhz PC2-6400
MotherBoard - P5B DLX WIFI
CPU -C2D E6600+
Case - Antec Nine Hundred Gaming Tower 200M Fan(Seems a fine case)
Power Supply - OCZ GameXStream 600W ATX12V SLI ready
Video Card - XFX 7600 GT pci-e
Sound Card - intergrated, until you get more cash later on.
Cd-ROM - Cd-ROM/Dvd Player/Dvd burner all-in-one.
IMO this system has 3 things better than the one you are thinking about:
1st: better cpu, e6600 oced can smoke an FX-62
2nd: cheaper card so when the next gen cards come(soon) you wont loose money like buying a x1950, then you would upgrade and sell the 7600gt.
3rd: better PSU, lower HDD since 500gb is too much for a gamer, or atleast too much to start with.
4th: intergrated sounds, upgrade it if you get a 50$ somewhere or you see a card going cheap. since its not that important performance gain.
why i made a system like this= upgrade friendly+ you wont regret for buying more expensive stuff if newer things come out.
good luck and enjoy your new rig
daisybox
Good computer
Dahl
I'm not changing a single component on that pc until I see the price. You can't just tell me what to get without providing me the cost. If it costs over $1500, then I'm not interested. I don't want the best of the best. I want something that will last me a couple of years and it is evident that my system up there will do just that, and more.
It was a mistake making this thread, it's just annoying me now.
I don't have $48,974,858,678,965,854,355,543,265,362 to buy a new system. Knock it off.
All components will remain as is. I will not buy a card before my new system. When I buy my new system, I will buy the x1950 pro. I will not upgrade my card again until the x1950 pro is FRIED AND UNUSABLE. I don't care about dx10 even in the least bit. I am currently running guild wars on dx8. I can handle just switching to dx9 with my new system. I am only a 19 year old man and will not spend every penny I get on a new system. There will be no upgrades, for many years. I am buying 1 solid gaming system, and that is all.
The case, apparently is pretty much the only component that won't shoot down in price over time, so I may buy that now and put all my current garbage parts into it since it has much better cooling, and my current system often freezes and shuts down on its own, likely due to overheating. Especially since I only have 1 tiny fan in there that sounds like a lawnmower and moves too slowly to get any cooling done. the Nine Hundred has excellent cooling, and even if it didn't have the cooling, it is very open and vented, while my current system only has a tiny vent at the back.
Thanks for your input to the people who understood the thread.
THREAD CLOSED.
(Very stressed out right now if you can't see. Sorry).
It was a mistake making this thread, it's just annoying me now.
I don't have $48,974,858,678,965,854,355,543,265,362 to buy a new system. Knock it off.
All components will remain as is. I will not buy a card before my new system. When I buy my new system, I will buy the x1950 pro. I will not upgrade my card again until the x1950 pro is FRIED AND UNUSABLE. I don't care about dx10 even in the least bit. I am currently running guild wars on dx8. I can handle just switching to dx9 with my new system. I am only a 19 year old man and will not spend every penny I get on a new system. There will be no upgrades, for many years. I am buying 1 solid gaming system, and that is all.
The case, apparently is pretty much the only component that won't shoot down in price over time, so I may buy that now and put all my current garbage parts into it since it has much better cooling, and my current system often freezes and shuts down on its own, likely due to overheating. Especially since I only have 1 tiny fan in there that sounds like a lawnmower and moves too slowly to get any cooling done. the Nine Hundred has excellent cooling, and even if it didn't have the cooling, it is very open and vented, while my current system only has a tiny vent at the back.
Thanks for your input to the people who understood the thread.
THREAD CLOSED.
(Very stressed out right now if you can't see. Sorry).
myst1k
guru3d.com go there and check stuff out and get some ideas, go check forums, check people like you and the best you can do is get the most informations before building a rig, thats what i do before i build one, check benchmarcks, tests and contact people who have almost the same parts as i want. just get to know what you want and what your doing, the final decision should come from you not from someone else. good luck building a system and please don't stress yourself, i love building rigs and i enjoy my time assembling the parts, real fun
Mercyful Fate
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dahl
Nevermind what I had in before, I did some research. If I'm correct, then:
ati x1950 is in the same league as the geforce 7900 (except that the ati was rated higher) while the geforce 8800 is actually next generation. For instance ati x1950 = playstation 2 while geforce 8800 = xbox 360. Am I right? Also, the x1950 is only $200 while the 8800 is $600, and I'm definately not willing to spend $600 on a new card. |
For cost reasons, go with the GTS instead of the GTX version. And of course stick with the 640MB vs the 320MB.
I am a huge ATI fan, as well as an avid Vista Hater. So originally I was going to go with a Radeon x1950xtx 512mb GPU but decided "if a new Elder Scrolls comes out, for Christ's sake, I better at least be DX10 ready, then I'll just have to cry at the thought of buying Vista..." since apparently DX10 is Vista only. For this reason, I opted to go with the GeForce 8800GTS so that I wouldn't be buying a new OS AND a new Card to replace an already new card.
And yes, the Radeon x1950xtx is in the same tier as the GeForce 7950... the 8800 is the next tier up from nVidia and ATI has yet to release something on that tier.
-MF