Making Health Regen/Degen matter (more)... - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

15 Mar 2007 at 06:55 - 1

As we all know, each pip of regen/degen is equal to 2 health per second, and there is an imposed 10 pips max. As it is now, regen and degen skills are generally written off as fairly worthless, as are conditions that cause degen. Why is this? Well, at 10 pips, we're only talking 20 health per second. On the surface, it sounds good, but 10 pips is generally difficult to pull off, and in the end can be easily outhealed/outdamaged.

There is also a handful of issues where the regen/degen is too powerful. How, you ask? Simply put, instances where the target has much less than maximum health. This is seen in the 55 monk build, and with skills like Aura of the Lich. In those instances, both regen and degen can be the literal line between life and death, thus, overpowered.

It is often suggested to raise the cap from 10 pips to say, 15-20. This is too much. It's often proven that it would cause regen/degen causing skills, and conditions to become way too powerful. I agree.

I suggest to you all, a solution: each pip of regen/degen implies .5% of your current max health per second, instead of a constant 2hp/second. At 10 max pips, that would equal 5% of your current max health per second. This would mean that no matter the situation, regen/degen will cause consistent damage/healing, no matter the target's current max health.

What do you guys think? What kind of rammifications would something like this cause? Am I missing a perhaps bigger picture with degen/regen? Does it even need fixing?

EDIT: Added in max between "current" and "health", to show what I really meant

FelixCarter

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Mo/Me

15 Mar 2007 at 07:29 - 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

As we all know, each pip of regen/degen is equal to 2 health per second, and there is an imposed 10 pips max. As it is now, regen and degen skills are generally written off as fairly worthless, as are conditions that cause degen. Why is this? Well, at 10 pips, we're only talking 20 health per second. On the surface, it sounds good, but 10 pips is generally difficult to pull off, and in the end can be easily outhealed/outdamaged.

There is also a handful of issues where the regen/degen is too powerful. How, you ask? Simply put, instances where the target has much less than maximum health. This is seen in the 55 monk build, and with skills like Aura of the Lich. In those instances, both regen and degen can be the literal line between life and death, thus, overpowered.

It is often suggested to raise the cap from 10 pips to say, 15-20. This is too much. It's often proven that it would cause regen/degen causing skills, and conditions to become way too powerful. I agree.

I suggest to you all, a solution: each pip of regen/degen implies .5% of your current health per second, instead of a constant 2hp/second. At 10 max pips, that would equal 5% of your current health per second. This would mean that no matter the situation, regen/degen will cause consistent damage/healing, no matter the target's current health.

What do you guys think? What kind of rammifications would something like this cause? Am I missing a perhaps bigger picture with degen/regen? Does it even need fixing?

I actually like the idea. It's interesting and would make conditions effect everyone the same, regardless of level, health, etc.

/Signed for this idea.

Azure

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

Honestly? No idea anymore..

Hellreapers [HR]

A/W

15 Mar 2007 at 08:07 - 3

Cant say for sure but iirc in the the betas they doubled all health and damage to current levels as health degen was way too powerfull (think Conjure Phantasm in Presear).

And aint degen generally easy to spread around, think Apply Poison, Barbed Arrows, Reapers Mark etc, while stacking degen to max on one person is hard, you can easily have close to ~50 degen on the enemy team as a whole.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with the current Degen/Regen system.

Deleet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

Denmark

Rule Thirty Four [prOn]

Mo/

15 Mar 2007 at 08:11 - 4

The problem isn't degen. The problem is, that is it easy to counter in the current metagame. LoD + HP > Degen.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

15 Mar 2007 at 08:27 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

The problem isn't degen. The problem is, that is it easy to counter in the current metagame. LoD + HP > Degen.

Well, that is true. As Azure said, I think originally degen was a decent threat, and it is easy to just apply it to multiple targets and forget it, which is nice. But now, I think healing and hex/condition removal has become so good, that really only chunk/spike damage can make people sweat.

I think this small, but noticeable improvement to regen/degen would cause it to become a threat again, though. Degen really shines when it can cause constant pressure to lots of enemies, and combined with those other chunk/spike sources of damage, it could be really dire for enemy monks, etc.

Keep in mind, though, the issue isn't just degen, but also regen. Pretty much every regen skill/spell is a joke. The only exceptions really being Troll Unguent (with it's sucky-ass activation time), and Mystic Regen. The only time this is not the case, is with the 55 monk, and a handful of other farming builds.

I'm thinking that this kind of change would not only lend more use to degen hexes/conditions, and regen skills that see little to no use, while simultaneously wiping the game clean of many farming and bot builds. Hmm... sounds almost like a Utopia to me... something must be wrong

FelixCarter

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Mo/Me

15 Mar 2007 at 09:27 - 6

As a Monk, I can say that Health Degen really doesn't "make me sweat" as much as Spike Damage does. With the newer Elites that bamf conditions and hexes in the face, and with the large healing spells, Health Degen is something that is more of an annoyance than anything else (at least for me). If this kinda thing was implemented, it would keep me on the edge of my seat more often and keep the game shway.

I'm assuming Health Regen would work the same way though? .5% (or whatever) every pip? If so, then I could see it being more threatening, but the solution to conditions and hexes would remain the same.

Obey The Cat

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

FFS

Rt/N

15 Mar 2007 at 11:09 - 7

Well, but people with less health should be disadvantaged... dunno exactly if your suggestion is good or not.

glountz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/Mo

15 Mar 2007 at 17:15 - 8

/signed
But that may overpower regen and skills such as Mystic regeneration when coupled with really high health (like on monks).

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

15 Mar 2007 at 17:27 - 9

I like it. With the 10 pips... that would be 5% of total health per second...
For a lvl 20 ... 480*5/100 that is 24. Not very far from the 20 of the current system...

This will make the regen/degen independand of level... and definitelly kill the 55 monks...

Good idea.

tenshi_strife

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

in sardelac getting yelled at.

Angels of Strife[Aoc]

E/

15 Mar 2007 at 17:35 - 10

/signed but can you say 55 rage lol

but then there will be a new type of farming can you say 600 ing lol

Obey The Cat

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

FFS

Rt/N

15 Mar 2007 at 18:37 - 11

Quote:

This will make the regen/degen independand of level... and definitelly kill the 55 monks...

Well...mending yes.

But degen will be less dangerious for players with lower health. That's something I don't like.

Tarun

Technician's Corner Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2006

The TARDIS

http://www.lunarsoft.net/ http://forums.lunarsoft.net/

15 Mar 2007 at 18:46 - 12

It may show ten, but it does far more already.

Mitchel

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2007

Almkerk, The Netherlands

P/W

15 Mar 2007 at 19:00 - 13

/signed, as this would make me laugh at HB even more.

Thomas.knbk

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

15 Mar 2007 at 19:25 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

It may show ten, but it does far more already.

erm, no?

I don't like the idea to be honest. Degen is very strong already. We've run a degen build with quite good results. Ofcource you shouldn't rely just on the degen to get kills, you need melee as well, but it's obvious it helped a lot. HB/HP's and LoD's make it harder to pull off, but it's still very strong.

Seitheach

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2006

SfF

E/Me

15 Mar 2007 at 19:32 - 15

If it's a percentage of your current health, wouldn't the health degen get less as your health decreases? The longer the condition/hex is on, the less effective it gets. Seems a bit weird to me.

Not A Fifty Five

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Creating guild

Mo/

15 Mar 2007 at 20:03 - 16

whoops misread post

hmm.. wouldn't this just make degen worse? And it sounds kinda odd, like the above poster. So apparently if you were down to 10 hp you would be almost immune to degen. Sounds kinda weird to never be able to bleed to death.

Tarun

Technician's Corner Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2006

The TARDIS

http://www.lunarsoft.net/ http://forums.lunarsoft.net/

15 Mar 2007 at 20:52 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

erm, no?

I don't like the idea to be honest. Degen is very strong already. We've run a degen build with quite good results. Ofcource you shouldn't rely just on the degen to get kills, you need melee as well, but it's obvious it helped a lot. HB/HP's and LoD's make it harder to pull off, but it's still very strong.

Test it out, do a max degen and cast HB on yourself with +9-10 regen.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

15 Mar 2007 at 20:53 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five

whoops misread post

hmm.. wouldn't this just make degen worse? And it sounds kinda odd, like the above poster. So apparently if you were down to 10 hp you would be almost immune to degen. Sounds kinda weird to never be able to bleed to death.

Ah, true, didn't think of that. Maybe there could be a minimum of 2hp/second? Does seem odd, though. Of course, with that little hp, a simple wand hit or two would dispatch the individual

Also, that means with that low life, regen wouldn't do much, either. I think a flaw in this has definately been spotted, though.

EDIT: And Tarun, there is a max cap of what amount of degen/regen can affect you, but it can go over that, it just won't ever affect more than 10 pips worth.

Thomas.knbk

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

15 Mar 2007 at 21:18 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

Test it out, do a max degen and cast HB on yourself with +9-10 regen.

yeah, I know about hidden degen. I'm not a noob.
You made it sound like 'it may show 10 arrows but in fact you lose 30 health per second' (that's what I read anyway)

This suggestion would make Healing Breeze the worst skill in the game. In order for HB to have any effect your target needs to be low on health, but if he's low on health healing breeze won't do anything!

Obey The Cat

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

FFS

Rt/N

15 Mar 2007 at 21:47 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seitheach

If it's a percentage of your current health, wouldn't the health degen get less as your health decreases? The longer the condition/hex is on, the less effective it gets. Seems a bit weird to me.

lol right

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

15 Mar 2007 at 21:50 - 21

Oops... I think I see where the confusion is coming in. I meant current max health, not current health.

sorry!

Tarun

Technician's Corner Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2006

The TARDIS

http://www.lunarsoft.net/ http://forums.lunarsoft.net/

15 Mar 2007 at 22:08 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

yeah, I know about hidden degen. I'm not a noob.
You made it sound like 'it may show 10 arrows but in fact you lose 30 health per second' (that's what I read anyway)

Not everyone knows, but now they who read these posts will know.

Not A Fifty Five

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Creating guild

Mo/

15 Mar 2007 at 22:58 - 23

heh, well I suggest you take out the word current and just use max health

I don't think anyone thought you meant current max health lol.

tenshi_strife

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

in sardelac getting yelled at.

Angels of Strife[Aoc]

E/

15 Mar 2007 at 23:21 - 24

i did, cause current health is a dumb thing to base on but yea you should put in max lol

Darko_UK

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2007

England

R/

15 Mar 2007 at 23:32 - 25

It's more then powerful enough as it is.

Kashrlyyk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

16 Mar 2007 at 01:21 - 26

What is the average dps a warrior can do? 40?

tenshi_strife

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

in sardelac getting yelled at.

Angels of Strife[Aoc]

E/

16 Mar 2007 at 03:32 - 27

yea but warriors are NOT damage dealers... they can apply pressure but not much damage, if your saying this is overpowered then think of eles dps, which with a good build can do over 70 to 80 dps at a minimum also the degen revamp will be good cause it will be balanced well cause those with low health will be affected the same as thoses with high health

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

16 Mar 2007 at 03:39 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

i did, cause current health is a dumb thing to base on but yea you should put in max lol

heh, I amended that in the OP, now. Sorry!

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

16 Mar 2007 at 03:41 - 29

Uh, do you guys pvp at all? Degen pressure is already insanely powerful (if you don't believe me, watch Kry or some degen pressure team play it), and if you increase your damage to 5% per second (~30 health loss), it'd be like bumping the damage up the roof and destroying the entire game of guild wars. Every team will be degen pressure, and all monks will carry 3 hex removals, 3 condition removals, and no prots since it's not needed.

For the most part, Anet balances this game for pvp, not because your little conjure phantasm doesn't do anything in pve and no one wants a mesmer degener. Imagine if you did conjure nightmare on lich, shiro, or abaddon now with 5% health loss/sec? Even pve will be retarded...

And it sounds like some people want to 55 farm but they get owned by degen, so they have to sign something like this.

/NOTsigned, and anyone who signs this clearly isn't thinking things through.

tenshi_strife

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

in sardelac getting yelled at.

Angels of Strife[Aoc]

E/

16 Mar 2007 at 04:01 - 30

currently degen is good as pressure but currently thats it as a serious source of damage its not that great, also this would balance it more, ok so lets say not .5% but rather .2%, this would make it less powerful but it would make degen the same no matter what their max health, which is how i picture degen. also saying that degen is over powed because of one group of skilled players is not wise. if thats the case EVERY CLASS IS OVERPOWERED a good ranger spike kills, a good ele pressure kills, hell even good iways killed. so god players useing degen wisely does not account for this not being revamped. if this was the case nothing would be changed cause there is always some group of people that can work well with the current set up, its a matter of making the greater populace able to use this much more viable. ALSO this is applied for regen too to make skills like healing breeze more usable, so saying 55s want this is really unfounded because it RUINS their builds, also this helps high health tank use breeze and mending with much more use. so truly i do think this needs added and i still /sign and yes i have thought this through

MirageMaster

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2007

EU

16 Mar 2007 at 04:36 - 31

/signed lol i like it.
dont care about 55 or the stupid pvp.

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

16 Mar 2007 at 06:26 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

also this helps high health tank use breeze and mending with much more use. so truly i do think this needs added and i still /sign and yes i have thought this through

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirageMaster

/signed lol i like it.
dont care about 55 or the stupid pvp.

As I've pointed out, people are posting /signed without even caring about the consequences. Also, degen greatly helps out 55 monks to the point they don't even need healing breeze or any regen because all they need to do is cast one spell for divine favor to heal them completely, and a -4 degen will take 50 seconds (under the 0.5% rule) and 2+ minutes (under the 0.2% rule) to kill a 55 monk, as opposed to 7 seconds as it stands.

If I propose something retarded like "I think all monsters should drop 10x as much gold and have a 100x better chance of dropping greens" there will still be more people that sign it than those that disagree given this kind of community.

Funny how the only other guy that disagrees with this idea (similar to me) in the thread is someone who is more known in these forums and knows what he is talking about. Everyone who is clueless just /sign it...

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

16 Mar 2007 at 06:35 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Uh, do you guys pvp at all? Degen pressure is already insanely powerful (if you don't believe me, watch Kry or some degen pressure team play it), and if you increase your damage to 5% per second (~30 health loss), it'd be like bumping the damage up the roof and destroying the entire game of guild wars. Every team will be degen pressure, and all monks will carry 3 hex removals, 3 condition removals, and no prots since it's not needed.

For the most part, Anet balances this game for pvp, not because your little conjure phantasm doesn't do anything in pve and no one wants a mesmer degener. Imagine if you did conjure nightmare on lich, shiro, or abaddon now with 5% health loss/sec? Even pve will be retarded...

While I agree that this could potentially overpower certain skills/builds, that can be easily remedied by tweaking numbers. Either make those certain skills a little less powerful (lengthen cast times or recharge, or shorten effect lengths), or as tenshi said, maybe not .5%, but .3-.4%. At .3%, anyone between 500-800hp would be losing 2hp/sec for each pip - how it is now. Sounds balanced to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

And it sounds like some people want to 55 farm but they get owned by degen, so they have to sign something like this.

I'm not sure what you know about 55'ers, but this idea would certainly kill the build entirely. Why? Because this involves regen as well, which I think you are missing. The 55 relies on being able to continuously heal all damage they receive, which is minimalized by Prot Spirit. Their regen would be seriously gimped since it would be a minimal 3hp/sec at 10 pips of regen, and .5%. At .3%, it would be 2hp/sec at 10 pips.

Thanks for the critical feedback, though, since you do bring up good points. I think a drop to .3-.4% sounds fine, but the number isn't really the point. The main point of the concept is a percentage of health, an even amount no matter the target's max health at the moment. The rest is just balance issues that can be worked out in testing or whatever.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Also, degen greatly helps out 55 monks to the point they don't even need healing breeze or any regen because all they need to do is cast one spell for divine favor to heal them completely, and a -4 degen will take 50 seconds (under the 0.5% rule) and 2+ minutes (under the 0.2% rule) to kill a 55 monk, as opposed to 7 seconds as it stands.

The 55 would not only be assaulted with degen, but also normal attacks. The regen as it is now is what covers the normal attacks and keeps them alive. With gimped regen because their health is too low, nothing can really save them. True that degen won't affect them as much, either, but the attacks and other sources of damage still assault the 55'er.

icedwhitemocha

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Ancestral/Grenz

[CneX]

W/

16 Mar 2007 at 06:44 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

yea but warriors are NOT damage dealers... they can apply pressure but not much damage, if your saying this is overpowered then think of eles dps, which with a good build can do over 70 to 80 dps at a minimum also the degen revamp will be good cause it will be balanced well cause those with low health will be affected the same as thoses with high health

You have been misinformed sir.

Interesting idea, but I don't think its broken enough to warrant fixing.
/notsigned

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

16 Mar 2007 at 10:59 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

While I agree that this could potentially overpower certain skills/builds, that can be easily remedied by tweaking numbers. Either make those certain skills a little less powerful (lengthen cast times or recharge, or shorten effect lengths), or as tenshi said, maybe not .5%, but .3-.4%. At .3%, anyone between 500-800hp would be losing 2hp/sec for each pip - how it is now. Sounds balanced to me.

I'm not sure what you know about 55'ers, but this idea would certainly kill the build entirely. Why? Because this involves regen as well, which I think you are missing. The 55 relies on being able to continuously heal all damage they receive, which is minimalized by Prot Spirit. Their regen would be seriously gimped since it would be a minimal 3hp/sec at 10 pips of regen, and .5%. At .3%, it would be 2hp/sec at 10 pips.

Thanks for the critical feedback, though, since you do bring up good points. I think a drop to .3-.4% sounds fine, but the number isn't really the point. The main point of the concept is a percentage of health, an even amount no matter the target's max health at the moment. The rest is just balance issues that can be worked out in testing or whatever.

EDIT:

The 55 would not only be assaulted with degen, but also normal attacks. The regen as it is now is what covers the normal attacks and keeps them alive. With gimped regen because their health is too low, nothing can really save them. True that degen won't affect them as much, either, but the attacks and other sources of damage still assault the 55'er.

Ever tried such thing as SoA 55/105? Probably not...if you haven't, go look at guildwiki.org and try it out before coming back to argue again. I really think that anet should just balance skills instead of trying to add another new element of balancing degen into the game as well. They have enough work as it is, and don't need to be overwhelmed with a plethora of mediocre to less-than-mediocre ideas.

Thomas.knbk

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

16 Mar 2007 at 14:04 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

think of eles dps, which with a good build can do over 70 to 80 dps at a minimum

....................
Pardon me? Give me a build that can ditch out 70-80 DPS please. I'll immediately make a team full of them.
Oh wait. They can't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

currently degen is good as pressure but currently thats it

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. And it's good at it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

also this would balance it more,

It'd be really, really overpowered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

ok so lets say not .5% but rather .2%

Now you're contradicting yourself. This would make it significantly weaker than it is now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

also saying that degen is over powed because of one group of skilled players is not wise. if thats the case EVERY CLASS IS OVERPOWERED, a good ranger spike kills, a good ele pressure kills, hell even good iways killed

You're the first person in this thread to make that statement.
And ironically, if a group of skilled players can use something too effective it will be nerfed. (e.g. the aforementioned iway, ranger spike)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

ALSO this is applied for regen too to make skills like healing breeze more usable

Healing Breeze would still suck hard if this was implemented. Slightly less than it does now, but still hard. It would be the worst skill in the game if 2% would be implemented.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

also this helps high health tank use breeze and mending with much more use. so truly i do think this needs added and i still /sign and yes i have thought this through

Wow......you want to change a game mechanic because it helps high health mending wammos?

Sorry, if it feels like I'm bashing you dude, but that post was so full of shit, I had to correct a few things.
And please, please use paragraphs, or at least sentences instead of just one seperated by commas.

I still won't /sign the idea, as you might have thought. Re/Degeneration isn't broken, so don't fix it imo. It may be slightly overpowered in 55 farm builds, but changing a game mechanic should be the last resort in fixing a farm build. I think changing Prot Spirit to 'reduces dmg to 10%, minimum 20/30, would be a much better change, and one that wouldn't affect PvP at all.

Wild Karrde

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2006

W/

16 Mar 2007 at 14:18 - 37

/NOTSIGNED

Degen is powerful enough as it is, as some of the posts in here have already stated, and did anyone think about condtion applying assassins? then all the assassins would just be condition applyers.

This proposal would have serious consequences.

glountz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/Mo

16 Mar 2007 at 16:38 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

I think changing Prot Spirit to 'reduces dmg to 10%, minimum 20/30, would be a much better change, and one that wouldn't affect PvP at all.

To kill 55, you are right, it is not the regen mechanic that have to be changed, but Prot spirit.
10% health means you reduce damage to a certain amount regardless of max health, or armor.
Prot spirit should be changed to "reduce damage to 80...48....40 HP lost" instead of a percentage of your max health.

legion_rat

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

668 the neighbor of the beast

TFK

A/

16 Mar 2007 at 18:50 - 39

I walked through most of nightfall with a degen (sin) build. multiple conditions on everyone via epidemic eats any fleshy creature alive fast. add in other problems like hexes from necros and then general beatings given by warriors and devishes and degen can be very bad. Conditions/degen is fine how it is in PvE, the monk AI cant keep up with that much health loss. ESP if the monk is the first one you hit. Now in PvP that may be different, I dont know i never do it.

~the rat~

*bleeding,poison,deepwound,blind,epidemic take that monks*

tenshi_strife

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

in sardelac getting yelled at.

Angels of Strife[Aoc]

E/

16 Mar 2007 at 22:41 - 40

ok lets adress this one problem at a time

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

....................
Pardon me? Give me a build that can ditch out 70-80 DPS please. I'll immediately make a team full of them.
Oh wait. They can't.

gladly
[skill]searing flames[/skill][skill]glowing gaze[/skill][skill]mark of rodgort[/skill][skill]meteor shower[/skill][skill]glyph of sacrifice[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]aura of restoration[/skill][skill]resurrection chant[/skill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. And it's good at it.

i can see it as more of a damage thing but ok

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

It'd be really, really overpowered.

i think making it a percentage based thing would be much more balanced for those with lower health or higher health

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

Now you're contradicting yourself. This would make it significantly weaker than it is now.

i didn't figure the numbers out i just was throwing something out, i think it should be percentage based is my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

You're the first person in this thread to make that statement.
And ironically, if a group of skilled players can use something too effective it will be nerfed. (e.g. the aforementioned iway, ranger spike)

no im not the first someone stated that degen owned because of how one team uses it, also i believe builds should not be nerfed because of one group thats just dumb but you may be right the probably do anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

Healing Breeze would still suck hard if this was implemented. Slightly less than it does now, but still hard. It would be the worst skill in the game if 2% would be implemented.

like i said above not checking my numbers right now

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

Wow......you want to change a game mechanic because it helps high health mending wammos?

no i hate wammos i was just giving an instance of why this would help

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

Sorry, if it feels like I'm bashing you dude, but that post was so full of shit, I had to correct a few things.

im not totally full of shit but i do appreciate you insight

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

And please, please use paragraphs, or at least sentences instead of just one seperated by commas.

yes i am notorious for that and i will try to fix it

i think that covers it and im still /signing