Making Health Regen/Degen matter (more)...

Not A Fifty Five

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Creating guild

Mo/

17 Mar 2007 at 00:25 - 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenshi_strife

gladly
[skill]searing flames[/skill][skill]glowing gaze[/skill][skill]mark of rodgort[/skill][skill]meteor shower[/skill][skill]glyph of sacrifice[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]aura of restoration[/skill][skill]resurrection chant[/skill]
if we assume one target, and for simplicity searing flames with a recharge of 0we end up with 119 damage ever 1.75 (aftercast) so about 70 DPS.

However, in reality, you'll be kiting, casting glyphs, completely running out of energy even if you took out glyph and put in glyph of lesser because your attunement will get stripped, casting mark of rodgort. This would go down to about 40 DPS. Raise it to say 70 for hitting multiple targets sometimes. Okay so maybe you're right, heh

The Hand Of Death

The Hand Of Death

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Cavalon

The Last Pirates (SaVY)

N/

17 Mar 2007 at 01:30 - 42
I don't see degen over powered for people with less health. That is kind of the point, it should be easier to kill someone with less health then with more health, degen shouldn't be determined by the amount of health someone has. In AB I am always using degen to kill my target, wether it be using an illusion mesmer, a hexing necro, or a condition spamming ranger, I use degen and frankly I don't find anything wrong with it the way it is.

~Death~

tenshi_strife

tenshi_strife

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Join Date: Jul 2006

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Angels of Strife[Aoc]

E/

17 Mar 2007 at 02:11 - 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five
if we assume one target, and for simplicity searing flames with a recharge of 0we end up with 119 damage ever 1.75 (aftercast) so about 70 DPS.

However, in reality, you'll be kiting, casting glyphs, completely running out of energy even if you took out glyph and put in glyph of lesser because your attunement will get stripped, casting mark of rodgort. This would go down to about 40 DPS. Raise it to say 70 for hitting multiple targets sometimes. Okay so maybe you're right, heh
you also have to add buring damage and gaze damage and the occational MS damage which brings it quite over the top

Not A Fifty Five

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Creating guild

Mo/

17 Mar 2007 at 02:48 - 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenshi_strife
you also have to add buring damage and gaze damage and the occational MS damage which brings it quite over the top

well.. I'm assuming energy glyph replaces with sac glyph and liquid flame in place of MS. And fire damage is less than your standard 119 so that would be more negative damage than damage.

Edit: Since the above coutns 119 damage as the only source, I contribute it as a negative that brings the average to 40 before aoe

Evilsod

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

17 Mar 2007 at 12:52 - 45
Theres no point suggesting something that Anet would never consider in a million years. The main weakness of a 55 monk is that degen will own him in seconds without Breeze, they'd just be giving them power they didn't need.

And yeah... Mystic Regen is already extremely lame as it is, it belongs in Mysticism to stop secondaries abusing it.

Would make degen impossible to balance, losing 20 health a second isn't much... 8 people losing 20 health a second, now thats tricky to counter. 8 people losing 5% max health a second is just insane.

Takuna

Takuna

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

17 Mar 2007 at 13:09 - 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by holymasamune
Uh, do you guys pvp at all? Degen pressure is already insanely powerful (if you don't believe me, watch Kry or some degen pressure team play it), and if you increase your damage to 5% per second (~30 health loss), it'd be like bumping the damage up the roof and destroying the entire game of guild wars. Every team will be degen pressure, and all monks will carry 3 hex removals, 3 condition removals, and no prots since it's not needed.

For the most part, Anet balances this game for pvp, not because your little conjure phantasm doesn't do anything in pve and no one wants a mesmer degener. Imagine if you did conjure nightmare on lich, shiro, or abaddon now with 5% health loss/sec? Even pve will be retarded...

And it sounds like some people want to 55 farm but they get owned by degen, so they have to sign something like this.

/NOTsigned, and anyone who signs this clearly isn't thinking things through.
Actually, he has a point, I went up against a mesmer once which had ridiculous degens slapped all over me. The only way I could win was to first cancel out some of the degen with my own vast amounts of regen skills and then spike her like a bat outa hell.

Evilsod

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

17 Mar 2007 at 13:26 - 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takuna
Actually, he has a point, I went up against a mesmer once which had ridiculous degens slapped all over me. The only way I could win was to first cancel out some of the degen with my own vast amounts of regen skills and then spike her like a bat outa hell.
Over-Degen can't do jack vs straight healing, it owns regen, thats it. Come across a degen Mesmer or Necro on a Ranger, your stuffed once it outdoes your Unguent, come across 1 on Warrior... you can't do much damage but it won't kill you, without interrupts anyway.

Thomas.knbk

Thomas.knbk

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

17 Mar 2007 at 18:14 - 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenshi_strife
ok lets adress this one problem at a time



gladly
[skill]searing flames[/skill][skill]glowing gaze[/skill][skill]mark of rodgort[/skill][skill]meteor shower[/skill][skill]glyph of sacrifice[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]aura of restoration[/skill][skill]resurrection chant[/skill]
Ok, assuming the standard 14 Fire Magic, and standard 76 caster armor on your target, the following happens:
Searing Flames deals 80 dmg to your target every three seconds, for 26,666 DPS
Your target is burning constantly for another 14 DPS
When your target is standing still in a meteor shower (which will at most only be 9 seconds out of a minute), he takes another 80 dmg every 3 seconds, or another 26,666 DPS
You hit him for 35 dmg every 9 seconds from Glowing Gaze, or 3,8 DPS
So yeah, in a perfect situation you'll deal 79 DPS 9 seconds out of every minute, and 52 DPS while they are not standing still in a meteor shower.

In a situation where energy matters, and you have no GoLE, where someone can remove your Mark of Rodgort as soon as it's applied and you don't have the energy to put it back on every 5 seconds, your DPS will drop to under 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenshi_strife
i can see it as more of a damage thing but ok
That's exactly what it is. It will rarely kill people on its own due to LoD and HP, but the same applies to all types of damage. Melee doesn't kill things on its own either, due to Shield of Deflection and Aegis. You need added pressure from something like snares, enchant removal, or degeneration. The fact that you can't kill things with degen only has to do with the fact that pure DPS is so weak in this game. If you wanna get kills, spike is the way to go. Even in a pressure build the kills come from small spikes on low targets.
You can try to make degen so powerful that it can kill people on its own, but all that would do is make the builds that already use it as additional pressure hugely overpowered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenshi_strife
i think making it a percentage based thing would be much more balanced for those with lower health
High health is supposed to give you an advantage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenshi_strife
i do appreciate you insight
Thank you

Not A Fifty Five

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Creating guild

Mo/

17 Mar 2007 at 18:29 - 49
What I personally think should happen is to reduce degen/regen to 1.5-1.75 hp per second rather than 2 and remove degen limits. Its kinda silly that you can be "saved" from poison becuase you are diseased and on fire. At 1.5-1.75, the efficiency of such easily spreadable conditions would drop to the point where this would not be overpowered at degen pips between 10 and 50 or whatever. Reaper's mark e.g. would do about 225 or so damage for 5 energy rather than 300. Anyways, if you agree with this state which value you think would be appropriate.

And sorry for hijacking your thread, but mods will immediately close a new thread I make under grounds of too much similarity to this thread given the recent trend to close anything and everthing

Priest Of Sin

Priest Of Sin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

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Live For The Swarm [ZERG]

Me/N

17 Mar 2007 at 18:35 - 50
This would be rather pointless, as it wouldn't change the system very much. Degen would still be worthless.

Now, if they removed the cap... maybe mesmers would become spikers again xD

Thomas.knbk

Thomas.knbk

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

17 Mar 2007 at 20:46 - 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five
What I personally think should happen is to reduce degen/regen to 1.5-1.75 hp per second rather than 2 and remove degen limits.
You might've guessed it already, but I think they should just leave degen alone.

Div

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Mo/R

23 Mar 2007 at 15:35 - 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Priest Of Sin
This would be rather pointless, as it wouldn't change the system very much. Degen would still be worthless.

Now, if they removed the cap... maybe mesmers would become spikers again xD
The day they remove the cap is the day I remake my pve mesmer and own everything with conjure nightmare+conjure phantasm.

The day they change degen to 0.5% health per pip (5% when 10 pips) is the day that I will kill mallyx in 20 seconds ^ ^

Guildmaster Cain

Guildmaster Cain

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Guildmistress Eve [Me], Guildmistress Azura [N], Guildmistress Azumi [A], Guildmistress Jaina [D]

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23 Mar 2007 at 15:39 - 53
My derv has +21 pips regen, bring em on!

Series

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2006

23 Mar 2007 at 16:04 - 54
For people who think the original idea sucks and would break the game... think about it.

-10 degen would be 5% health a second. It would take TWENTY SECONDS to kill you at max degen. Honestly, if you are under -10 degen for twenty whole seconds, you deserve to die (of course, this is disregarding both damage and heals, but according to some, "all anybody will ever do is degen"). Compare this to a spike which will kill you in 1 second. Hmm, what's more powerful, a kill in 20 seconds or a kill in 1 second? So again... how is this overpowered?

/signed for either .5% max health per second lost OR no degen cap.

Aeon_Xin

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

E/Me

23 Mar 2007 at 17:14 - 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five
What I personally think should happen is to reduce degen/regen to 1.5-1.75 hp per second rather than 2 and remove degen limits. Its kinda silly that you can be "saved" from poison becuase you are diseased and on fire.

And sorry for hijacking your thread, but mods will immediately close a new thread I make under grounds of too much similarity to this thread given the recent trend to close anything and everthing
I think the limit of 10 degen is good, because if I'm on fire and bleeding, disease or poison can't do any worse.(Though, if more than 10 degen is recieved, everything over should go into a buffer untill it times out....if it doesn't, i never catch that much degen)

Maybe add another pip or two, after ten 1.5 and 1.7 would ammount to almost the same thing. I do run into the -10 wall when PvE ing sometimes though, so here's the math.
1.5 x 10pips 15points/second. Add 5 pips @ 1.5 22.5
1.75x 10pips 17.5 Add 5 @1.75 26.5
2 x 10 20 Add 5 @2 30

If you just make 12 pips max, that'd be 24per second. ok, so increase max by 3 pips?
I don't think we should run on unlimited degen though, that'd get nasty in a hurry.

lol @ mods closing stuff, yeah, some seem to get a kick out of it

Ajora

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

There Is A Cow Level

W/A

23 Mar 2007 at 18:30 - 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenshi_strife
yea but warriors are NOT damage dealers... they can apply pressure but not much damage
Normally don't post here, but yeah, this statement alone made me think you're a moron, or all you do is PvE. Warriors aren't damage dealers? Okay, in the original dual surge builds who did the damage? No no, better yet, which class, originally, was the only one able to apply a deep wound(Effectively anyways. Phantom Pain + Shatter on a mesmer is llololololol)

As to the topic of degen, watch any current hex team. Coupled with shutdown and dervishes it's borderline overpowered. Then play it on Jade Isle? Right.

Degen is fine as is. You can't simply run degen alone, you need shutdown. Diversion/Humility the LoDs. This goes for any build. You can't run warriors with enchantment strips. You can't run conditions without removal shutdown.

The Red Knight

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Zero Files Remaining [LaG]

R/Mo

23 Mar 2007 at 18:40 - 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenshi_strife
yea but warriors are NOT damage dealers... they can apply pressure but not much damage, if your saying this is overpowered then think of eles dps, which with a good build can do over 70 to 80 dps at a minimum also the degen revamp will be good cause it will be balanced well cause those with low health will be affected the same as thoses with high health
yeah you know like axe hammer and sword do like 0 damage clearly. really you should play some gvg sometime -.-

Tiyuri

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

23 Mar 2007 at 18:46 - 58
This entire thread is one monumental fail.

Strange Guy

Strange Guy

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Join Date: Feb 2007

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Is Gwen Eighteen [yet]

Mo/Me

24 Mar 2007 at 00:26 - 59
The point of Degen or Regen is to make the output dmg become efficient. Anyone who play monk would understand degen is a nightmare to heal through. By using degen, it's a sure dmg over the period of time (unless being taken out.) Combine this slowly dmg and direct dmg, we can create average output OVER the period of time higher than just using Degen or just using direct dmg. Degen can not be protected unless using Healing breeze which noone ever use unless in 55 monk! Some of the PvE monks use healing breeze as a slow heal and combine this with direct heal to make the average healing output higher! That's my opinion about Degen/Regen.

These are good/bad things that can happen in my opinion:

Good:
- It will eliminate those who solo with their 55 monks.
- Give better use for regen skills.

Bad:
- Prot spirit will be less effective and maybe will not be used anymore (Same for shelter)
- + Health amour is gone. No more use!
- DP out target become meaningless since degen does not do anything good.
- Make more lag as dmg will be shown every sec
- Frenzy is gone because this is dmg per sec mean double OMG.

yesitsrob

yesitsrob

Elite Guru

Join Date: Sep 2005

Manchester, England

SMS/Victrix

24 Mar 2007 at 01:24 - 60
Lol. What a horrible suggestion. How this thread has lasted 3 pages without being closed is pretty disgraceful

BahamutKaiser

BahamutKaiser

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Heightened state of mind.

P/W

24 Mar 2007 at 03:03 - 61
The wole point of regen and degen is to overlap with damage or healing, not replace them. We can use healing skills which heal 60 health for 5 energy, or we can use a regen skill which offers approx 16-18 heath per second for 10 seconds offering more healing over a period of time, or we can do both to conserve energy and stack more healing over a smaller period of time.

Works perfectly fine IMO, if you want something besides regen and degen, try something else, this works properly.

MithranArkanere

MithranArkanere

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Join Date: Nov 2006

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E/

24 Mar 2007 at 19:02 - 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Guy
The point of Degen or Regen is to make the output dmg become efficient. Anyone who play monk would understand degen is a nightmare to heal through. By using degen, it's a sure dmg over the period of time (unless being taken out.) Combine this slowly dmg and direct dmg, we can create average output OVER the period of time higher than just using Degen or just using direct dmg. Degen can not be protected unless using Healing breeze which noone ever use unless in 55 monk! Some of the PvE monks use healing breeze as a slow heal and combine this with direct heal to make the average healing output higher! That's my opinion about Degen/Regen.

These are good/bad things that can happen in my opinion:

Good:
- It will eliminate those who solo with their 55 monks.
- Give better use for regen skills.

Bad:
- Prot spirit will be less effective and maybe will not be used anymore (Same for shelter)
- + Health amour is gone. No more use!
- DP out target become meaningless since degen does not do anything good.
- Make more lag as dmg will be shown every sec
- Frenzy is gone because this is dmg per sec mean double OMG.
Well if it was with % of health, and not with that bad ida of more pips:

- Would kill for good the 55 soloers... but I'm sure there will borth Greth's Balance ones with regend and endure pain to have huge ammounts of HP, XD.
- Not only better use of regeb, but also more logic, since creatures with more HP (and thus more level) regen more. Making the level a tiny bit more important... no more lvl13 Assassins entering Vizunah relying on shadow refuge.

- + Health amour won't go, since the more HP you have, the more you regen.
- DP would be worst, since the more you have the less effective is the regen on you.
- Don't know about the lag... this would of course need more calculations...


Hm... so far only the change to regen/degen per % of health seem to be of any good.

The other ideas do not seem plausible at all.

Div

Div

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Mo/R

25 Mar 2007 at 16:59 - 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Series
For people who think the original idea sucks and would break the game... think about it.

-10 degen would be 5% health a second. It would take TWENTY SECONDS to kill you at max degen. Honestly, if you are under -10 degen for twenty whole seconds, you deserve to die (of course, this is disregarding both damage and heals, but according to some, "all anybody will ever do is degen"). Compare this to a spike which will kill you in 1 second. Hmm, what's more powerful, a kill in 20 seconds or a kill in 1 second? So again... how is this overpowered?
I repeat: The day they change degen to 0.5% health per pip (5% when 10 pips) is the day that I will kill mallyx in 20 seconds

And comparing spike damage with degen just shows how little you understand about the mechanics of this game. Don't make PvP comparisons if your perception of PvP is from RA, AB, a GvG you watched 4 months ago, and the two times you got rolled in UW running a wammo against iA a year ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiyuri
This entire thread is one monumental fail.
Of course. Too many people that don't even read the whole thread or don't know what they're talking about are giving their opinions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MithranArkanere


- + Health amour won't go, since the more HP you have, the more you regen.
- DP would be worst, since the more you have the less effective is the regen on you.


Hm... so far only the change to regen/degen per % of health seem to be of any good.

The other ideas do not seem plausible at all.
+Health armor would completely go down the drain, as it is usually the case that you have degen on you as opposed to regen, especially in PvP. +Health armor has never been as popular in PvE because it's all about getting maximum efficiency dealing damage, so +Energy is generally preferred over +Health.

Again, people wouldn't mind having DP against a pure degen build, because degen is much more prevalent than regen, and with DP, degen becomes much less effective. In fact, in PvP, the only regen skills I commonly see are the SoR monks and the Healing breeze flaggers, whereas there is an insane amount of degen. Even in PvE, degen is much more common, and if your team is really DP'ed there's a problem with the group anyways...

I repeat, changing degen to % is not going to work out, for the reasons I've given before. I've yet to have anyone refute any of my arguments despite refuting many arguments from the other side, so I'll maintain my belief that this proposal is utterly idiotic, and that there is no more intelligent discussion to be had in this thread...

MithranArkanere

MithranArkanere

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Join Date: Nov 2006

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E/

28 Mar 2007 at 15:19 - 64
Hm... so I'm right. THey should change it to %.

The main and more important issue is to kill the 55characters, thus leaving a 480HP lvl 20 character regen almost the same, and that would do that.

Coran Ironclaw

Coran Ironclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

Guardianes Del Honor

R/Mo

28 Mar 2007 at 16:32 - 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
The main and more important issue is to kill the 55characters,
If all you care is to kill 55, you really are going in a very complicated way. There are many other more simple tweaks to do that,
The tweak shouldnt be on regeneration but on [protective spirit] which is the essential part of 55.

One example could be the same they did to spirit bond, it only affect the next 10 attacks-spells, and 55 is dead.

but i /not sign that because it is not really needed.
55 is one of the oldest builds in the game, If anet would be interested on killing it, that would had been done looong time ago.

Series

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2006

28 Mar 2007 at 17:06 - 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by holymasamune
I repeat: The day they change degen to 0.5% health per pip (5% when 10 pips) is the day that I will kill mallyx in 20 seconds

And comparing spike damage with degen just shows how little you understand about the mechanics of this game. Don't make PvP comparisons if your perception of PvP is from RA, AB, a GvG you watched 4 months ago, and the two times you got rolled in UW running a wammo against iA a year ago.
Oh no! The degen change will make a PvE boss die faster? ZOMG, PvE is so important to consider when thinking about skill changes. When discussing how a skill change will effect PvE, it shows how little YOU understand about the game. This has nothing to do with PvE vs. PvP. It's a fact that PvP is more important than PvE when it comes to skill changes.

And I love how you think I learned about spiking in "RA, AB, a GvG you watched 4 months ago". BRB, I gotta go run a spike in RA!

Seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by holymasamune
Of course. Too many people that don't even read the whole thread or don't know what they're talking about are giving their opinions...
You mean like you?

Chris Blackstar

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

United States

28 Mar 2007 at 20:39 - 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
As we all know, each pip of regen/degen is equal to 2 health per second, and there is an imposed 10 pips max. As it is now, regen and degen skills are generally written off as fairly worthless, as are conditions that cause degen. Why is this? Well, at 10 pips, we're only talking 20 health per second. On the surface, it sounds good, but 10 pips is generally difficult to pull off, and in the end can be easily outhealed/outdamaged.

There is also a handful of issues where the regen/degen is too powerful. How, you ask? Simply put, instances where the target has much less than maximum health. This is seen in the 55 monk build, and with skills like Aura of the Lich. In those instances, both regen and degen can be the literal line between life and death, thus, overpowered.

It is often suggested to raise the cap from 10 pips to say, 15-20. This is too much. It's often proven that it would cause regen/degen causing skills, and conditions to become way too powerful. I agree.

I suggest to you all, a solution: each pip of regen/degen implies .5% of your current max health per second, instead of a constant 2hp/second. At 10 max pips, that would equal 5% of your current max health per second. This would mean that no matter the situation, regen/degen will cause consistent damage/healing, no matter the target's current max health.

What do you guys think? What kind of rammifications would something like this cause? Am I missing a perhaps bigger picture with degen/regen? Does it even need fixing?

EDIT: Added in max between "current" and "health", to show what I really meant
/not signed

Twice you mention 55 monks, I believe your only reasoning for this changes is so your 55 build can farm freely in areas that have degen opponents. Live with the current system, because those of us who prefer not to use low HP builds would suffer in the end with a higher hp build, thus giving low hp builds an overpowered advantage.

tenshi_strife

tenshi_strife

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Join Date: Jul 2006

in sardelac getting yelled at.

Angels of Strife[Aoc]

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28 Mar 2007 at 22:47 - 68
THIS AFFECTS REGEN TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO so 55 would be boned omfg 55ing requires regen and if regen is % based then THEY WOULD DIE this is not a 55 buff this would kill 55ers SO STOP SAYING THAT, ok every get off the subject of 55ers, WHO CARES ABOUT 55ERS its an OK farming build that has existed for forever, and get down to the real issues PVP. i still have not seen any post that would make me change my mind

FelixCarter

FelixCarter

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Mo/Me

29 Mar 2007 at 00:58 - 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenshi_strife
THIS AFFECTS REGEN TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO so 55 would be boned omfg 55ing requires regen and if regen is % based then THEY WOULD DIE this is not a 55 buff this would kill 55ers SO STOP SAYING THAT, ok every get off the subject of 55ers, WHO CARES ABOUT 55ERS its an OK farming build that has existed for forever, and get down to the real issues PVP. i still have not seen any post that would make me change my mind
I thought 55s were already dead... My bad.

As for PvP, it would be pretty much the same as it is now. I'll even quote Mithran's calculations:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
I like it. With the 10 pips... that would be 5% of total health per second...
For a lvl 20 ... 480*5/100 that is 24. Not very far from the 20 of the current system...
In the end, such an update would only hurt 55 Monks (I'm pretty sure O.o). New people playing PvE would have it much easier in the beginning of the game. PvP, like I already said, would be "unaffected" to an extent. the only difference is 4 points, after all.

tenshi_strife

tenshi_strife

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Join Date: Jul 2006

in sardelac getting yelled at.

Angels of Strife[Aoc]

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29 Mar 2007 at 01:02 - 70
yea its not a large change but healing breeze and other regen skills are worthless on high health tanks, also how i see regen and degen is by %, i mean if your bleeding just cause your stronger it doesnt suck, that makes no sense in a logical view. but thats just me

MithranArkanere

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

29 Mar 2007 at 15:58 - 71
It's commons sense, the more health you have, the faster you regen.
Think of it like 'constitution' in D&D, the greter your overall health is, the easier and faster you recover from wounds.

The current regens system does exactly the opposite, the less HP you have, the faster you recover your health with the same number of regen pips.

The downside from superior runes and other -HP items should be a real downside, not a good way to trick the game to become almost immune to cheap monster builds.

Div

Div

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Mo/R

29 Mar 2007 at 17:25 - 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Series
Oh no! The degen change will make a PvE boss die faster? ZOMG, PvE is so important to consider when thinking about skill changes. When discussing how a skill change will effect PvE, it shows how little YOU understand about the game. This has nothing to do with PvE vs. PvP. It's a fact that PvP is more important than PvE when it comes to skill changes.
Since you're probably twelve and like to turn a legitimate argument into personal attacks, I'll show you how little you know about this game.

I'm guessing you weren't around when they changed spirit bond? Rend enchantments? Just got the game for 2 weeks? Of course PvP takes precedence over PvE when skill balance is concerned, but they're not going to break the entire PvE game by changing a game mechanic. How little I understand about the game? What makes you claim that? Is your bambi making you a little too overconfident? And saying that they don't skill balance for PvE as well just shows that you never even paid attention to the history of skill balances and have no experience in PvE, so you shouldn't argue on that behalf.

MithranArkanere

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

29 Mar 2007 at 19:49 - 73
Game mechanic are not definite, not even yet.
They already removed the evade mechanic, didn't they?

Well... the % change would actually make Bosses harder, since they have more health.

Glint would be hell, since she is presumed to have over nine thou... ahem... sorry... too much 300 silly videos... I was going to say over 6000 HP.

With such a change, the 7 regen pips Crystal Hibernation grants her would have to be reduced to keep the same difficulty.

pazu

pazu

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2007

Brazil

Battle Comrades [CCCP]

W/Mo

29 Mar 2007 at 20:52 - 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
I suggest to you all, a solution: each pip of regen/degen implies .5% of your current max health per second, instead of a constant 2hp/second.
If health % is calculated before applying -health items, then it's a great idea. This is to keep people from getting rewarded for a lower max health, like the infamous 55 monks.

Age

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

29 Mar 2007 at 22:08 - 75
I haven't read the first post or entire thread in full but I say No and to kill off any farming builds that players have fun with No again as this game would get really boring fast.There is already away you help those in need of regen to prevent degen.

tenshi_strife

tenshi_strife

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

in sardelac getting yelled at.

Angels of Strife[Aoc]

E/

29 Mar 2007 at 22:32 - 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazu
If health % is calculated before applying -health items, then it's a great idea. This is to keep people from getting rewarded for a lower max health, like the infamous 55 monks.
um wtf -health would HURT you for regen......... so it would be applied after, actually this would reward players for having high health which i think would be great cause way to many players stack runes cause currently its got not much of a downside

MithranArkanere

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

30 Mar 2007 at 13:26 - 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenshi_strife
um wtf -health would HURT you for regen......... so it would be applied after, actually this would reward players for having high health which i think would be great cause way to many players stack runes cause currently its got not much of a downside
Yup, that is exactly what I've been telling all the time.

Currently, -75 energy is not a big problem when you are a Necro, Ele, or Monk...
Even a warrior will get nice bonuses by using Endure pain with +3, more than enough.

Increasing the penalization would have no point. But this small behaviour change would make that penalization work more logically.

=DNC=Trucker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

TLA

Me/

30 Mar 2007 at 18:41 - 78
/notsigned

If you have low health, you have low health!