[skill=big]Shield of Absorption[/skill]
VS.
[skill=big]Shielding Hands[/skill]
Big conflict on which one is more effective in PvE. Before, Shield of Absorption was the hands-down choice, but now, it isn't because of the increased cast time. At 15 Protection Prayers, you need Shield of Absorption to hit at least seven times to beat out Shielding Hands, and Shielding Hands has a much lower cast time.
Information (at 15 Protection Prayers) -
Shielding Hands-18,18,18,18,18,18,18 = 126
Shield of Absorption-5,10,15,20,25,30,35 = 140
Now since SoA doesn't last that long, 8 seconds on my character, you will need to be attacked constantly to bring out effectiveness.
What are your opinions on this matter? I especially want to hear from the OH-SO-SKILLED mods/admins. Thanks.
~Polynikes
Shield of Absorption vs. Shielding Hands
Polynikes of Sparta
Epic Monkey Battle
In pve I would say it depends on the area, SoA is awesome for reducing damage on targets that like to stand in AoE. But for areas where it is direct damage from melee, shielding hands might be better as they will take less hits and therefore benefit more from shielding hands than SoA.
eggs0wn
I use both. Stacking Shielding Hands and Shield of Absorption really makes the damage go down. However, I I hate to pick one I would go with Shielding Hands-I just like it more.
Polynikes of Sparta
I also use both sometimes to stack, but more to balance the recharges of both of them. I tend to carry Shielding Hands more, also, because of the .25 second cast. low cast time ftw. but wanna hear more opinions!
Samuel Dravis
On my prot bar I usually bring both. SoA is always useful in PvE, particular the parts where they like to try spiking down monks. SH is great because of its cast time and the amount of reduction (17 @ 14prot). Useful for tanks particularly, and other chars with better armor.
olly123
i my self am more SoA tho i prefer Shealing, i just never used shealiding so i cant b bothed to get into it.
Polynikes of Sparta
umm shealiding??? is that SoR? plz explain. ty
XvArchonvX
After the cast time nerf, I go with Shielding Hands in PvE. In instances where one target gets hit with a spike of damages from multiple sources, SoA shines, but that just doesn't happen enough in PvE to merit it's spot. I don't think either is a bad choice, but if I have to choose one, I'll stick with Shielding.
Batou of Nine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epic Monkey Battle
In pve I would say it depends on the area, SoA is awesome for reducing damage on targets that like to stand in AoE. But for areas where it is direct damage from melee, shielding hands might be better as they will take less hits and therefore benefit more from shielding hands than SoA.
i tend to agree. I always adjust my bar according to the area. So when i am about to enter an area i know has lots of AoE dmg sources, i want to stick with SoA. Going into an area that i know has more physically based damage with more single target enemies, i tend to take Shielding Hands.
Taking both at the same time is not very productive in my opinion. Sure it will really reduce a large amount of dmg on that one ally, but i would rather have that 2nd slot for another good monk utility skill.
Anyway, i dont think either is necessarily "better" than the other. As with my first paragraph, i tend to prefer each when a certain situation/area comes to play. Hope that all makes sense and helps a bit!
cheers
Taking both at the same time is not very productive in my opinion. Sure it will really reduce a large amount of dmg on that one ally, but i would rather have that 2nd slot for another good monk utility skill.
Anyway, i dont think either is necessarily "better" than the other. As with my first paragraph, i tend to prefer each when a certain situation/area comes to play. Hope that all makes sense and helps a bit!
cheers
Polynikes of Sparta
thank you thank you. anymore opinions?
Effigy
For PvE and most PvP, I like SH better. SoA is only good if one person is getting focus fired whereas SH is good against pretty much everything, even one melee attacker.
Polynikes of Sparta
also, a bit off-topic question.
is it wise to run ZB in an 8-man party, or should i stick with SoR or RC cuz theres another heal monk? overlaps scare me =P
is it wise to run ZB in an 8-man party, or should i stick with SoR or RC cuz theres another heal monk? overlaps scare me =P
Effigy
ZB can be good in a 8-man party, but it can be a bit touchy with 2 monks since you won't always get the energy bonus. If you bring GoLE with it, this isn't too much of a problem. Also if you know the other monk well enough you can better gauge who they'll heal and when, so you don't double up too much.
Epic Monkey Battle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batou of Nine
Taking both at the same time is not very productive in my opinion. Sure it will really reduce a large amount of dmg on that one ally, but i would rather have that 2nd slot for another good monk utility skill.
I agree and guardian is an awesome skill to stick in there.
Racthoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polynikes of Sparta
I play Shield of Absorption in the same way I played with Healing Seed; toss it on a warrior, cover, and aggro. Mid-combat it's simply a matter of which red bar seems to be taking hits most often.
Quote: Originally Posted by Polynikes of Sparta At 15 Protection Prayers, you need Shield of Absorption to hit at least seven times to beat out Shielding Hands, and Shielding Hands has a much lower cast time. Why 15? The breakpoint for Shield of Absorption is at 14 which works out nicely with a 12 + hat + rune spec. For that matter 14 is also the break for Aegis at 11 seconds, what is so crucial that you're using at least a major rune sacrificing 35 health to hit that 15 in protection prayers?
If used properly, seven hits to a shield is nothing (something as simple as two enemies auto-attacking you will achieve 7 hits in 7 seconds of SoA). Given that the change in cast time is a big issue to you I can only assume you're using it on a target that was under focussed fire, so seven hits should never be difficult to achieve. In roughly a minute, you can cast Shield of Absorption 6 times and Shielding Hands only 4 times. 42 seconds worth of damage reduction vs. 32 seconds of damage reduction. Not that a battle should extend that long, but Shield of Absorption is up much longer and can be reused more often.
Quote:
Now since SoA doesn't last that long, 8 seconds on my character, you will need to be attacked constantly to bring out effectiveness.
Only the cast time of SoA has changed since release. Casting time is something I really only consider in PvP; not like enemies can coordinate spikes in PvE that a Protective Spirit + RoF can't save.
Signet of Devotion is simply amazing, I play my ZB monk as 14 prot/13 divine so it's a 94 point heal for free every 7~ seconds. I'm not sure what kind of energy returns you're expecting/are receiving from Channeling, given that you are a monk, it's PvE, and you can easily avoid being the focus of fire on most occasions. Not to mention when Glyph of Lesser Energy has the potential of netting you 25 energy every 30 seconds for no spec whatsoever. To boot, Aegis = 30 second recharge and 15 energy; the two skills were meant for each other.
Quote:
I like Dismiss not only because it heals for so much, but also because it removes a condition while doing so. I've also found that the target of Dismiss is almost always enchanted already, either thru my own spells, another monk, and in the case of eles (who nearly universally have an Attunement) and some others, by themselves.
Quote:
In an organized group, you can probably drop Aegis in favour of Guardian since aggro will be more controlled. There is no need for the party wide 50% block when one person is most (if not all) the hits. But then again if aggro is that well controlled, SoA will save the day. Quote:
Aegis takes away the worry of using Dismiss as a heal for 11+ seconds (assuming you have a weapon set with an enchanting mod). Granted if you're using Dismiss Condition as a heal the target has probably been under fire so is proted in some form. |
Originally Posted by Polynikes of Sparta
is it wise to run ZB in an 8-man party, or should i stick with SoR or RC cuz theres another heal monk? overlaps scare me =P
If you're the only monk in a group of 8 it makes ZB a lot more fun to play.
Flashy
its a vs. that relies on the playing style of a monk...
1 prefers SoA and other prefer SH... I use SoA in pressure areas... The areas they deal low damage at the start to unleash the high damage (Warriors and Assassins)... so they start with a burst of low damage to unleash the high damage after that but that get engated by SoA... I use SH in areas where they start with high damage and finish with the low hits... so they deal loads of damage at the start to then 'infuse' the target with SH to negate the next burst of low damage attacks... Peace Out, Flashy
Polynikes of Sparta
bumpity bump anymore opinions? either that or close da thread.
~Polynikes
majeh456
I like to use both of them because I can rotate them whenver I see fit. I use SoA, SH, Guardian and RoF, and those have done a very good job in knocking damage down, no matter the area. I don't have any monk elites yet, so I am not sure which one to get, but it seems that ZB is definantly the way to go. Looks like I'm going to halt my Tyrian advance and start on Elona, until I get ZB that is.
Polynikes of Sparta
my build:
zb rof ps soa or sh gole aegis sig devotion or rarely dismiss (hate condition removal) rebirth Samuel Dravis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polynikes of Sparta
sig devotion or rarely dismiss (hate condition removal)
Um, why would you hate condition removal? Dismiss is good because it
1) Removes the condition 2) Does an orison level heal when enchanted ([email protected]+divine) 3) Recharge is 3 seconds (2 seconds faster than Sig of Devotion) Requirement 2 is incredibly easy to meet. Why would you take sig of devotion, with its incredibly long cast time and nonexistent utility, instead of Dismiss? If you're having energy problems, Aegis usually isn't needed at all in PvE. If you work it right (kite, etc) only a few people will be being hit enough to take significant damage from melee. That frees up 2 slots for emanagement and other utility. I'd suggest Channeling, with 6 in inspiration, as well as Holy Veil. Besides, healing is what you have ZB for. Grammar
Maybe it's just me, but in many/most PvE areas, I find that neither SoA or SH are really needed. All you really need is Prot Spirit.
To be more specific, all you really need in PvE to make monking easy is Prot Spirit, RoF, ZB, GoH, Dismiss, and sometimes a hex remover. Everything else is just gravy. My PvE bar looks like this: RoF GoH ZB Dismiss Holy Veil Prot Spirit Optional slot (Sig of Devotion, Spirit Bond, SoA, etc.) Rebirth
creelie
Prot Spirit + SoA are an amazing synergy - if the ally is getting hit quickly enough. For example, the combo completely neuters an unprepared assassin.
I've been experimenting with SoA vs. SH myself, and it's hard to decide. SH has a longer recharge, but SoA casts slower. I may try just tossing them both for some other enchantment - preferably one that recharges in less than 5 seconds.
Sunbear
At 15 Prot
Shielding Hands last 8 Seconds with 18 reduced Damage. Shield of Absorption lasts 7 Seconds with progressive 5 damage reduction. Lets assume we have a 20% enchant mod. Therefore, SH lasts 9.6 Seconds and SoA lasts 8.4 seconds. Let's assume you are being attacked by a sword or axe, therefore its one hit per 1.33 seconds. Therefore, SH will reduce 7 attacks (rounded down) and SoA will reduce 6 attacks (rounded down). Therefore, SH will reduce 18 x 7 = 126 Damage. SoA will reduce 6 attacks, 5,10,15,20,25,30 = 105 Damage. Therefore, SH will win ONLY if there is one attacker on the person. This is assuming that there is no spike. In PvP, SH may beat SoA because of the longer cast time of SoA, however, if you pre-prot the person in PvE, SoA should outperform SH. I usually run this as my Prot monk in PvE. Zealous Benediction Reversal of Fortune Spirit Bond Protective Spirit Shield of Absorption Dismiss Condition Smite Hex or Revealed Hex Rebirth.
Div
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polynikes of Sparta
Information (at 15 Protection Prayers) -
Shielding Hands-18,18,18,18,18,18,18 = 126 Shield of Absorption-5,10,15,20,25,30,35 = 140 First of all, SH lasts 1-1.2 sec longer than SoA, so it'll shield more hits in general. The casting time shouldn't matter much in PvE, especially since you can easily preprot and monsters will keep hitting you anyways. One thing this calculation fails at is that not all monsters will hit you for more than 25 damage. Typical monster spellcasters that staff you will hit for about 15-20 damage, meaning that a SoA reduction calculation may be more like 5,10,15,20,20,30,15 = 115, and SH would be something like 15,18,18,18,15,18,15 = 117. The disadvantage of SH is the much longer recharge. It really depends on the area, and what kind of monsters you are tanking. Also, in areas with enchantment removal, SH seems better because its effect is strong at the beginning and doesn't need time to build up (and risk getting removed before it prevents enough damage).
Darkpower Alchemist
It would seem that the logical choice would be SoA, since the reduction and recharge make it far more useful and accessable in a pinch in a PvE scenario. As previously mentioned, SoA+PS makes for a very well defended and tried enchantment combination.
SH,as one of the original protection spells has been revamped and now is made as a "viable" alternative for SoA and can actually earn its way onto a protection bar without this comparison. Though they essentially have a similar mechanic they will always be compared. However, due to the nature of this discussion, the choice of which should be the prefered spell to use is mostly a choice made by prefrence rather than overall utility and/or usefulness. My prefrence at this point is SoA,yet,I would more than likely ask that a fellow monk carry either on his/her bar as a backup in case of enchantment stripping if that is a scenario we will encounter. More than likely,it would be that I would carry SoA and my counterpart would carry SH, to avoid overlapping. Narayanese
How does Guardian compare with the two? My PvE monk has a spare skill slot and could use an enchantment against concentrated physical pressure (Protective Spirit seems to counter spell damage well enough), so I'm torn between guardian, SH an SoA.
Polynikes of Sparta
i run:
zb rof prot spirit gole aegis sh or soa guardian rebirth i find condition removal to be ineffective, becuz its usually on more than one party member and its usually reapplied. hex removal is sometimes good, but only in areas heavy in hexes, in which i would take divert. guardian is an awesome skill to just throw on a charging warrior or melee class. guardian then prot spirit is a pretty nice combo. i would have to say SoA for PvE. when someone is taking damage in PvE its not just one creature. plus, SoA is amazing when something makes u take damage rapidly, such as AoE skills. one time, a ranger used whirling defense and a warrior was standing next to him while a paragon and an ally ranger were attacking the opposing ranger. the warr was taking damage from whirlin defense. i put SoA on him, he took bout 16 hits. then when an enemy tried to hit him, it was useless =P. ~Polynikes
Racthoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel Dravis
1) Removes the condition 2) Does an orison level heal when enchanted ([email protected]+divine) 3) Recharge is 3 seconds (2 seconds faster than Sig of Devotion) Requirement 2 is incredibly easy to meet. Why would you take sig of devotion, with its incredibly long cast time and nonexistent utility, instead of Dismiss? If you're having energy problems, Aegis usually isn't needed at all in PvE. If you work it right (kite, etc) only a few people will be being hit enough to take significant damage from melee. That frees up 2 slots for emanagement and other utility. I'd suggest Channeling, with 6 in inspiration, as well as Holy Veil. Besides, healing is what you have ZB for. |
Signet of Devotion is simply amazing, I play my ZB monk as 14 prot/13 divine so it's a 94 point heal for free every 7~ seconds. I'm not sure what kind of energy returns you're expecting/are receiving from Channeling, given that you are a monk, it's PvE, and you can easily avoid being the focus of fire on most occasions. Not to mention when Glyph of Lesser Energy has the potential of netting you 25 energy every 30 seconds for no spec whatsoever. To boot, Aegis = 30 second recharge and 15 energy; the two skills were meant for each other.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Narayanese
How does Guardian compare with the two? My PvE monk has a spare skill slot and could use an enchantment against concentrated physical pressure (Protective Spirit seems to counter spell damage well enough), so I'm torn between guardian, SH an SoA.
I haven't touched Guardian much since Nightfall, it was replaced with Shield of Absorption. Why block half the attacks when you can just render everything useless? In an organized group, you can probably drop Aegis in favour of Guardian since aggro will be more controlled. There is no need for the party wide 50% block when one person is most (if not all) the hits. But then again if aggro is that well controlled, SoA will save the day.
Samuel Dravis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
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Signet of Devotion is simply amazing, I play my ZB monk as 14 prot/13 divine so it's a 94 point heal for free every 7~ seconds.
Don't get me wrong, Sig of Devotion is nice for energy pressure. However, being under edenial like that in PvE is pretty much nonexistent in my experience. The recharge and cast time seal the deal for me. For example, in that same 7 seconds, you can get two casts of Dismiss in, healing for ~109hp (12divine/14prot). That is 218hp healed, and potentially 2 conditions removed. Your response time between damage and heal is cut in half as well, which is fairly significant if other people need attention. It takes Dismiss 4.3 energy to heal the same amount as Sig. More on the energy thing below. Quote:
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