I was just thinking about it. If the level cap is raised to 100 or more and it is more substantial than an extra skill point to gain a level, wouldn't this mean a ton more work for the devs not only to provide ample content for every level and to make sure it's all balanced, but also require them to provide a similar amount of high-end content (think 20+ in the current GW) to keep everyone that gets to 100 entertained?
If you think about it, if the game has only 1 quest per level, there's a minimum of 100 quests right there. And that's not counting all the random or evolving ones as well.
So in a practical manner, how are the devs going to be able to support a game that has content for 100 levels and still not have a monthly fee to make up for all that extra work?
Also wouldn't 100 levels discrouge people from trying out more than 1 class? If it's canthan leveling time fives it'd be managable (but pointless). But if it's like trying to get to 20 in prophecies times five in order to finish the game, that would be grueling to some of us. My best time for completing the first game so far was about a month. I don't see myself playing 2 hours a day for 5 months before finishing a game for one PC, let alone 5-6. Nor do I see myself trying out a lot of new classes when the expansions/new chapters come along for GW2.
So in short, how is 100 levels going to work without turning off the existing fan base that likes the quick leveling this game has to offer (it was a big draw to me for example), provide enough content for everyone, and not causing so much work for the devs that GW2 will either cost 80 dollars or have a monthly fee.
Won't 100 levels mean more work for the devs?
Winterclaw
Zorglubb
Not necessarily, they could go for a bland auto-levelled world, ala Oblivion: generic critters with level scaling everywhere.
kumarshah
After a certain level the new levels will just reward players for playing and won't be worth anything.
NoChance
I'll bet that the higher level cap will be just cosmetic... your attribute points will probably be capped at some point, while your level may continue to increase as your experience increases.
At least that's what I hope is the case.
At least that's what I hope is the case.
The Great Al
What I am hoping is that the difficulty of the monsters somehow depends on the party members. That way, maybe people wouldnt automatically want level 1000 people in their parties, because then it would significantly make it harder. It couldn't just be an average, though, because higher level people could just have level 1s tag along, for easy farming.
Winterclaw
Zorg, oblivion only had about 20 levels of monsters, not 100. And if the cap is raised to 100, you can guess that monsters will get up to level 120 or so. 140 or so for some of the bosses.
NoChance, if that's the case, why not cap it at 20 like the first game and add a title for all those extra XP you farmed? Or add a title based on skill points earned instead of skills bought. I think that's one of the things I don't get about it, I'm looking at the game from a practical standpoint where the only numbers that mean anything are the percentages.
Kuma, that's a big fear of mine, the only reason for extra level will be to reward people who work for extra levels... ie the people least affected by a new cap.
NoChance, if that's the case, why not cap it at 20 like the first game and add a title for all those extra XP you farmed? Or add a title based on skill points earned instead of skills bought. I think that's one of the things I don't get about it, I'm looking at the game from a practical standpoint where the only numbers that mean anything are the percentages.
Kuma, that's a big fear of mine, the only reason for extra level will be to reward people who work for extra levels... ie the people least affected by a new cap.
BryanM
Yes Winter, in theory it would mean there would need to be more world content.
Instances wouldn't be designed for every 100 individual levels, just "around" certain levels. Say 5, 10, 15, 20, 70, 80 - etc.
Instances wouldn't be designed for every 100 individual levels, just "around" certain levels. Say 5, 10, 15, 20, 70, 80 - etc.
ss1986v2
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
if that's the case, why not cap it at 20 like the first game and add a title for all those extra XP you farmed?
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in the end, we dont know! why should we speculate about something that wont even happen for over a year, and that we have no way of knowing whats going to happen.
sit back, grab a soda, and wait a year. might wanna grab a couple of sodas...
Lord-UWR
Who said the levels actually make you stronger, or give you more attribute or health or energy? It is merely a reperesentation of the time you have spent.
MSecorsky
*** DON'T PANIC ***
There are a few things of note that strongly imply that the level cap increase is for the most part cosmetic. First: the thoughts that they might make it unlimited. It should be obvious that for the sake of balance you cannot gain health, energy and attribute points forever. Therefore, it can be safely implied that at some point additional levels do not increase these attributes. Second: the Hall will allow you to bring things from GW1 into GW2 for characters linked to the GW1 character. This includes equipment… weapons, armors maybe. Weapons brought in have max values… bows are 15-28 for example. If you could gain tremendous power through massive leveling… why allow you to bring in a bow that does 15-28 if Joe Elemental at level 100 has a 4000 point Flare spell? Third: consider Skills. They are all based at level 20 and would require significant changes should attribute levels be allowed to go higher than they currently are.
What appears to be the most likely affect is that you still stop gaining attributes at
Level 20, as is currently in place and working wonderfully. You will still level with experience, however. I would expect increased levels to have different effects. For example… a certain skin of weapon would have a minimum level attribute on top of minimum requirement (or in lieu of?). Armor skins may only be available to higher levels as a reward for aging. This nicely takes care of the promise of allowing character development beyond level 20 without changing the soul of Guild Wars.
Now, my friends, is the time to consider what to pass on to your legacy. What weapons will your grandkids wield in battle as they remember stories of your heroism? What minipets will their children play with? Which animal companions will your grandkids fight along side of?
The future begins now. If I’m right… it’s going to be a good one.
There are a few things of note that strongly imply that the level cap increase is for the most part cosmetic. First: the thoughts that they might make it unlimited. It should be obvious that for the sake of balance you cannot gain health, energy and attribute points forever. Therefore, it can be safely implied that at some point additional levels do not increase these attributes. Second: the Hall will allow you to bring things from GW1 into GW2 for characters linked to the GW1 character. This includes equipment… weapons, armors maybe. Weapons brought in have max values… bows are 15-28 for example. If you could gain tremendous power through massive leveling… why allow you to bring in a bow that does 15-28 if Joe Elemental at level 100 has a 4000 point Flare spell? Third: consider Skills. They are all based at level 20 and would require significant changes should attribute levels be allowed to go higher than they currently are.
What appears to be the most likely affect is that you still stop gaining attributes at
Level 20, as is currently in place and working wonderfully. You will still level with experience, however. I would expect increased levels to have different effects. For example… a certain skin of weapon would have a minimum level attribute on top of minimum requirement (or in lieu of?). Armor skins may only be available to higher levels as a reward for aging. This nicely takes care of the promise of allowing character development beyond level 20 without changing the soul of Guild Wars.
Now, my friends, is the time to consider what to pass on to your legacy. What weapons will your grandkids wield in battle as they remember stories of your heroism? What minipets will their children play with? Which animal companions will your grandkids fight along side of?
The future begins now. If I’m right… it’s going to be a good one.
Lord-UWR
Actually, the future begans in a year from now, JUST ENJOY GW OR WHATEVER ELSE FOR NOW.
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by Lord-UWR
Actually, the future begans in a year from now, JUST ENJOY GW OR WHATEVER ELSE FOR NOW.
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Why?
Or leveling could be made relatively easy, and while you might only need to be level 30 or so to beat the first part of the game, you could go on and get bonuses.
Also, they can easily make levels a lot less meaningful than they are now. Imagine if instead of gaining 5/10/15 points at levels until 20, you gained only 1 at every level. That would mean you would need to get to level 175 in GW2 to be equal to a level 20 player in GW1.
Not to mention they could make It really easy to get those first important dozen levels, and then make it slightly harder each level.
I mean, just beating the campaigns has allowed my necro to get almost 2 million xp, and that is at least level 100, if not more.
Levels are just a number, and they can be manipulated infinitely by the devs to make that number stand for what they want it to stand.
Also, they can easily make levels a lot less meaningful than they are now. Imagine if instead of gaining 5/10/15 points at levels until 20, you gained only 1 at every level. That would mean you would need to get to level 175 in GW2 to be equal to a level 20 player in GW1.
Not to mention they could make It really easy to get those first important dozen levels, and then make it slightly harder each level.
I mean, just beating the campaigns has allowed my necro to get almost 2 million xp, and that is at least level 100, if not more.
Levels are just a number, and they can be manipulated infinitely by the devs to make that number stand for what they want it to stand.
Antheus
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Originally Posted by Lord-UWR
Who said the levels actually make you stronger, or give you more attribute or health or energy? It is merely a reperesentation of the time you have spent.
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Quote:
| Sidekicks simlar to CoH, allowing powers to seep from a high level character to a friendly lower level char. |
It'll be level based, so that wammos who spent 3000 hours on one character will be leet when they slaughter mobs 50 levels beneath them. Apparently, that's lots of fun, and can't be done currently in GW.
BryanM
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Originally Posted by Lord-UWR
Who said the levels actually make you stronger, or give you more attribute or health or energy?
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zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
Zorg, oblivion only had about 20 levels of monsters, not 100. And if the cap is raised to 100, you can guess that monsters will get up to level 120 or so. 140 or so for some of the bosses.
NoChance, if that's the case, why not cap it at 20 like the first game and add a title for all those extra XP you farmed? |
TGgold
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
NoChance, if that's the case, why not cap it at 20 like the first game and add a title for all those extra XP you farmed? Or add a title based on skill points earned instead of skills bought. I think that's one of the things I don't get about it, I'm looking at the game from a practical standpoint where the only numbers that mean anything are the percentages. Kuma, that's a big fear of mine, the only reason for extra level will be to reward people who work for extra levels... ie the people least affected by a new cap. |
Personette
The leveling thing sounds very "turn the volume up to 11" to me. It's all always the same in the end. You spend most of your time battling foes that are at your level, or a bit under, or a bit over - anything else is either boring or futile. In that sense, the game is mostly the same from level 1 to level whatever-the-limit-is.
I'm really not in the demographic that the game is marketed to, so I can't say I would really want or expect it to cater to me, but I have to say I think extending levels will have to be either cosmetic (same process, different numbers! woo hoo!), or annoying (takes a lot longer to feel minimally competent! Woo hoo!).
As for the hall of monuments - consider the name of it. A monument isn't a locker or, say, in fantasy-appropriate terms, a legacy - something that can be transferred, exchanged, passed along. A monument is about memory - something that is over and done is identified in a plaque or sculpture or whatever, in hopes that anyone who encounters it will discover or remember the event/person.
If you really can transfer any kind of functional object to yourself through the hall of monuments, I'd be shocked. Because there are all kinds of monuments in the world, and the word has expanded to encompass all sorts of crazy things over hte last century, but the one unchanging and fundamental thing is that it's about memory, not utility. Past perfect, not imperfect.
I'm really not in the demographic that the game is marketed to, so I can't say I would really want or expect it to cater to me, but I have to say I think extending levels will have to be either cosmetic (same process, different numbers! woo hoo!), or annoying (takes a lot longer to feel minimally competent! Woo hoo!).
As for the hall of monuments - consider the name of it. A monument isn't a locker or, say, in fantasy-appropriate terms, a legacy - something that can be transferred, exchanged, passed along. A monument is about memory - something that is over and done is identified in a plaque or sculpture or whatever, in hopes that anyone who encounters it will discover or remember the event/person.
If you really can transfer any kind of functional object to yourself through the hall of monuments, I'd be shocked. Because there are all kinds of monuments in the world, and the word has expanded to encompass all sorts of crazy things over hte last century, but the one unchanging and fundamental thing is that it's about memory, not utility. Past perfect, not imperfect.
Quid Pro Quo
Isn't the new level cap for GW2 which is heading for a different direction then the current Guild Wars? If so then good for them stick to the new direction with the new game if thats what your going to do.
Gwmaster
as i said it already...i bet 10 gold that it will be only for showoff how many exp you farmed...example: in guildwars1 you have a monk lvl 20 with 10 million exp, if that monk would be in guildwars2 it would be lvl 60 with 10million exp, the attributes tho will stay the same as a lvl 20.
MMSDome
where did you see something suggesting a level cap of 100?
BryanM
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Originally Posted by MMSDome
where did you see something suggesting a level cap of 100?
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Tarun
You can hit level 20 in one to two days.
Terra Xin
There really isn't much we can interpret on how Anet will develop their 100 level cap. Worst case senario will be that you just grind for it without needing to grind for it. I really hope they come up with something innovative and cool with their process of character levelling. Otherwise it's going to fall down the pit of "Here we go, here we go, here we go again.... da, da, da, da"
creelie
I think up to level 40 would be just about right.
DutchGun
A no-level-limit system could be straight-forward enough to do in theory - just have each level increment towards a theoretical maximum power by a fixed percentage of the remaining difference between your current power and the maximum power.
This would give you a nice inverse-exponential power curve. You would gain power fairly quickly at first, but would eventually slow down as you near the maximum theoretical limit. Adjusting the percentage gained would simply adjust the slope of the curve, but not the final max power. And, players could continue to level up forever, but the actual power gain per level would eventually become so small as to be irrelevant.
The nice thing about a system like this is that a level 40 player could still group with and contribute to a party of level 80 characters, because there might only be a power difference of 10 or 20% between them (depending on how steeply you set the power curve).
This would give you a nice inverse-exponential power curve. You would gain power fairly quickly at first, but would eventually slow down as you near the maximum theoretical limit. Adjusting the percentage gained would simply adjust the slope of the curve, but not the final max power. And, players could continue to level up forever, but the actual power gain per level would eventually become so small as to be irrelevant.
The nice thing about a system like this is that a level 40 player could still group with and contribute to a party of level 80 characters, because there might only be a power difference of 10 or 20% between them (depending on how steeply you set the power curve).
Zonzai
I know exactly why they are increasing the level cap. It's for the same reason that they are adding a level 20 content expansion -- to keep us interested.
They need to give PvE players something to do besides run through the campaign and then start farming. By increasing the level cap they can add a greater time involvement and the ever fabled "sense of accomplishment".
And I think we can all tell that ANet doesn't really want us to farm much. Yet by limiting characters to such a low level cap they have reinforced the need to do so. Oops!
As an added benefit, by going with more levels they can create a greater range of enemy difficulties. This allows them to apply an easily manipulated static variable. That is, as opposed to skill sets. The problem with them being that different skill sets affect different classes and player builds differently.
Mob numbers are also a static variable, but those are already present and are limited for the same reasons that a level 20 skill cap are. And I can promise you that balancing the later areas using mostly skill sets and mob numbers, especially in missions, is difficult enough that adding more levels won't add that much more work anyway.
Anyway, other benefits may also come from increasing the levels but I think the thing that made them seriously look at it was the idea that PvE players wanted a greater level of character development.
It's part of the same reason that they do events every weekend and give mini-pets and party hats and all that stuff. I know I would get less interested without the weekend events. The other major part is to avoid monotony.
Of course, monotony is what they were originally trying to avoid by adding such a low level limit to begin with. But regardless, with UAS for PvP characters there's no need to leave the level limit so low anyway. And I think that's probably the best thing we are getting out of all of this.
They need to give PvE players something to do besides run through the campaign and then start farming. By increasing the level cap they can add a greater time involvement and the ever fabled "sense of accomplishment".
And I think we can all tell that ANet doesn't really want us to farm much. Yet by limiting characters to such a low level cap they have reinforced the need to do so. Oops!
As an added benefit, by going with more levels they can create a greater range of enemy difficulties. This allows them to apply an easily manipulated static variable. That is, as opposed to skill sets. The problem with them being that different skill sets affect different classes and player builds differently.
Mob numbers are also a static variable, but those are already present and are limited for the same reasons that a level 20 skill cap are. And I can promise you that balancing the later areas using mostly skill sets and mob numbers, especially in missions, is difficult enough that adding more levels won't add that much more work anyway.
Anyway, other benefits may also come from increasing the levels but I think the thing that made them seriously look at it was the idea that PvE players wanted a greater level of character development.
It's part of the same reason that they do events every weekend and give mini-pets and party hats and all that stuff. I know I would get less interested without the weekend events. The other major part is to avoid monotony.
Of course, monotony is what they were originally trying to avoid by adding such a low level limit to begin with. But regardless, with UAS for PvP characters there's no need to leave the level limit so low anyway. And I think that's probably the best thing we are getting out of all of this.
BryanM
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DutchGun
A no-level-limit system could be straight-forward enough to do in theory - just have each level increment towards a theoretical maximum power by a fixed percentage of the remaining difference between your current power and the maximum power.
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I don't believe for a second there will be an "infinite" level cap, it's just an idea that's always thrown around when games are developed, rarely used.
The original concept of Guild Wars is that levels had no impact whatsoever on the game - none of this added health and higher damage algorithms stuff. Level 1 was as strong as level 47 - the level 47 guy would just have a wider choice of skills.
rnicoll
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zorglubb
Not necessarily, they could go for a bland auto-levelled world, ala Oblivion: generic critters with level scaling everywhere.
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I remember, in Oblivion, playing a stealth/magic character. They fought their way through an Oblivion gate, carefully eliminating foes through stealth and cunning (well, something like that), finally manage to close the gate, barely escaping with their life, and practically drag themselves to the nearest town. Waking up the next day, well rested and healed, they wander outside where they are brutally slaughtered by a passing wolf (who had level scaled while my char slept).
boko
In the current GW, the level 20 does not really encourages ppl to do quests... heck, most ppl avoid the quests in GW1 like the plagues... Ppl focus only on the primary missions and even with that they can manage to reach level 20 easily and even get enough skill points to unlock all skills without doing the extra quests...
Level beyond level 20 so that ppl actually has a good reason to actually do quests.... Quests rewards > Level grinding by farming...
Level beyond level 20 so that ppl actually has a good reason to actually do quests.... Quests rewards > Level grinding by farming...
Loomy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
If the level cap is raised to 100 or more and it is more substantial than an extra skill point to gain a level, wouldn't this mean a ton more work for the devs not only to provide ample content for every level and to make sure it's all balanced, but also require them to provide a similar amount of high-end content (think 20+ in the current GW) to keep everyone that gets to 100 entertained?
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Darksun
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zonzai
Anyway, other benefits may also come from increasing the levels but I think the thing that made them seriously look at it was the idea that PvE players wanted a greater level of character development.
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I really like the direction that GW2 is heading because PvE sounds more persistent & it sounds like your Characters will have more development & depth.
the no-number-cap PvE sounds great too! I may actually play it now if I can be part of a large scale war.
I don't know why people are worried about the PvP. Sounds like they will have the regular match-based stuff. Sounds the same.
Dougal Kronik
I'm hoping the level cap is just cosmetic after the equivalent level 20 in Guild Wars.
Just so those players with millions of XP can show it.
Just so those players with millions of XP can show it.
Rusty Deth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik
I'm hoping the level cap is just cosmetic after the equivalent level 20 in Guild Wars.
Just so those players with millions of XP can show it. |
I love the level cap, on the other hand I have no way of showing off my 3 million xp on my Ranger.
Enchanted Warrior
100 levels? Ok that helps me decide. Not buying gw2. LOL
If I want grind grind grind I'll go back to swg (they only have 90 :P ).
For those wondering about having the content to get to level 100, they won't have it right away. It will come slowly. They want to slow down the levelling process, and reduce boredom (they think it will anyway). So you'll just wander around killing everything all day and night like people do now for lightbringer and Sunspear. They think grinding will replace the need for content.
I just lost all interest in gw2. If it's going to be constant grind I'm not buying it. I'll stick around in gw1 and help people get master LOL (Like I do now).
*goes off to read about vanguard*
If I want grind grind grind I'll go back to swg (they only have 90 :P ).
For those wondering about having the content to get to level 100, they won't have it right away. It will come slowly. They want to slow down the levelling process, and reduce boredom (they think it will anyway). So you'll just wander around killing everything all day and night like people do now for lightbringer and Sunspear. They think grinding will replace the need for content.
I just lost all interest in gw2. If it's going to be constant grind I'm not buying it. I'll stick around in gw1 and help people get master LOL (Like I do now).
*goes off to read about vanguard*
Longasc
One word of warning, Vanguard is EverQuest extreme. So if you do not like grind, you are looking at the wrong game.
Enchanted Warrior
Longasc, Good to know, thanks.
clawofcrimson
I think a-net is smart enough to notice all the downsides/upsides of level caps...so I wouldnt worry about it... I trust that they will come up with a decent system.
Disadvantages of "low level cap"
1. There is no way to visibly see a players experience /knowledge /skill. So when everyone is max...no one is special. Players that have been playing for a long time...and those that are very skilled...look the same as the noob that has played for a week.
2. The Feeling that you have completed the game. lower levels may make players bored quickly with the game. Once you've reached max...you need to start looking for something else to make the game interesting...
Advantages of "low level cap"
1. game mechanics with a low cap create a more pick up and play feel. This is moreflexible with real life. (and what attracted me to GW)
2. It makes the game based more on skill than 'grinding' to the highest level.
~~~In my opinion, anet is not giong to abandon their MMO philosophy, but rather try to correct the downsides to the low level cap that people complain so much about, but its really useless to talk about it because no one really knows what they will do.
Disadvantages of "low level cap"
1. There is no way to visibly see a players experience /knowledge /skill. So when everyone is max...no one is special. Players that have been playing for a long time...and those that are very skilled...look the same as the noob that has played for a week.
2. The Feeling that you have completed the game. lower levels may make players bored quickly with the game. Once you've reached max...you need to start looking for something else to make the game interesting...
Advantages of "low level cap"
1. game mechanics with a low cap create a more pick up and play feel. This is moreflexible with real life. (and what attracted me to GW)
2. It makes the game based more on skill than 'grinding' to the highest level.
~~~In my opinion, anet is not giong to abandon their MMO philosophy, but rather try to correct the downsides to the low level cap that people complain so much about, but its really useless to talk about it because no one really knows what they will do.
BeefEater4:20
I don't know about the proposed level cap. I like the current method of levelling in guild wars, because i am all for skill > time played and I think the current method achieves that very well. On the other hand, with the implementation of hard mode, I am suddenly reminded of Diablo and Diablo II with the three difficulty levels.
Perhaps in GW2 there could be a regular mode for character levels like 1-30, hard mode for character levels 31-60 and Uber l337 mode for 61-whatever. Therefore, you could play through the storyline on normal, then for more challenge and greater rewards, try it on the harder difficulties.
Having played Diablo for a long time (had a lvl 49 wizard, wish I could have got him to 50), I really enjoyed the scaled difficulties, yet I could play through the story and reach the end before I got to the highest level. The ability to play through the story quickly, yet have increased difficulties so that you can adventure to find better equipment really gave me a sense of accomplishment and hooked me on that game. I think that the lack of this feature is what has turned me off of most MMO's. I played FF online for the PS2 and absolutely hated the grind I needed to go through to get anywhere and the hours I had to invest just to find a party because soloing was not something that could be done past a certain point (as far as I knew of). I stopped playing that game with no sense of accomplishment. I didn't (and still don't) even know what the underlying story of that game was. To me I just felt that the whole purpose was to grind for xp and farm for money.
Having to pay to play really sucks too!!! Free online play Pwnz Pay2Play!!!
Perhaps in GW2 there could be a regular mode for character levels like 1-30, hard mode for character levels 31-60 and Uber l337 mode for 61-whatever. Therefore, you could play through the storyline on normal, then for more challenge and greater rewards, try it on the harder difficulties.
Having played Diablo for a long time (had a lvl 49 wizard, wish I could have got him to 50), I really enjoyed the scaled difficulties, yet I could play through the story and reach the end before I got to the highest level. The ability to play through the story quickly, yet have increased difficulties so that you can adventure to find better equipment really gave me a sense of accomplishment and hooked me on that game. I think that the lack of this feature is what has turned me off of most MMO's. I played FF online for the PS2 and absolutely hated the grind I needed to go through to get anywhere and the hours I had to invest just to find a party because soloing was not something that could be done past a certain point (as far as I knew of). I stopped playing that game with no sense of accomplishment. I didn't (and still don't) even know what the underlying story of that game was. To me I just felt that the whole purpose was to grind for xp and farm for money.
Having to pay to play really sucks too!!! Free online play Pwnz Pay2Play!!!
Alex the Great
Quote:
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Originally Posted by NoChance
I'll bet that the higher level cap will be just cosmetic... your attribute points will probably be capped at some point, while your level may continue to increase as your experience increases.
At least that's what I hope is the case. |
o God i hope so *prays
Though that would casue level discrimination to the players like me that forgo titles and such in favor having 5 level 20's to help people out with