This skill really needs a boost to the primary warrior. They have max damages of 22, 28 and 35 for there weapons and lose all adrenaline, making it almost completely useless to carry around as a general skill.
The Dervish, carrying a multi-target hitting Scythe with a max damage of 41. Wild Blow, omg the Dervish lost all its Adrenaline? Does it matter? Do they even have other adrenaline skills? Do they have twice the regen so can spam it all they want getting massive critical hits on everything?
Remove 'Lose all Adrenaline' from this skill so its actually viable for the primary warrior to bring in PvP. The Scythe is incredibly unbalanced imo, this skill just adds to it.
Wild Blow
Evilsod
lucifer_uk
Lol that would require time and balance.
Not gonna happen then is it?
Not gonna happen then is it?
Evilsod
Balance? Whats to balance... are you seriously expecting to see a huge surge in the number of Wild Blow/Flourish warriors? All it means is a warrior can actually bring this in PvP without wasting a slot 99/100 times. This skills 'unwanted' side effect doesn't even effect the Dervish and they're the only ones who use it anymore.
gameshoes3003
It should be placed in strength dealing... uuuhh.... +0...15 damage. Or something.
Skyy High
It's the warrior's only way to break a stance, and it's unblockable. Yes it's a little too good with scythes, but that doesn't make it bad for warriors.
TheLordOfBlah
Yes it does, because how often do you REALLY need to remove a stance that badly that its worth it to loose ALL your adrenaline?
gameshoes3003
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
It's the warrior's only way to break a stance, and it's unblockable. Yes it's a little too good with scythes, but that doesn't make it bad for warriors.
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dargon
Scythes only hit more than one target if the opposing foes are stupid (ie mobs) players should be smart enough to spread out.
Not A Fifty Five
/signed
Used mostly by non-warriors anyways... and.. it hurts warriors. Admittedly, its one of the few things that helps kill me in random arenas as a ZB monk, but when its going to see more use from assasins and dervishes ANYWAYS, I think we can dump that lose all adren bit.
Besides, as said earlier, compare to the paragons. Ranged, + damage, and basically no energy (it just cant be spammed, and since the stance that most are concerned about in pvp on monks is 30 recharge... yeah)
Used mostly by non-warriors anyways... and.. it hurts warriors. Admittedly, its one of the few things that helps kill me in random arenas as a ZB monk, but when its going to see more use from assasins and dervishes ANYWAYS, I think we can dump that lose all adren bit.
Besides, as said earlier, compare to the paragons. Ranged, + damage, and basically no energy (it just cant be spammed, and since the stance that most are concerned about in pvp on monks is 30 recharge... yeah)
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by TheLordOfBlah
Yes it does, because how often do you REALLY need to remove a stance that badly that its worth it to loose ALL your adrenaline?
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The fact that you don't see the use of the warriors only stance ending skill in PvP is disturbing.
Crushing Power
/signed, perhaps it could have a 50% fail chance with Strength under 4 or something.
MithranArkanere
You lose all adrenaline because the adrenal skills are for the 80 armor characters.
So... you are a tank, not a damage dealer, you are meant to go there, eat damage and bother the enemy, while the damage dealer nuke them.
Stance ending, crippling, etc...
If you lose all your adrenaline is to prevent a huge array of hits to someone depending on a blocking stance, to prevent making it completely useless.
You cold say it is: "Ok, now you can hit me, but not so hard"
Then, a Dervish can do that, but they will have to sacrifice other much better skills to do so. Why to use wild blow when you can deal more than 200 unblockable holy damage?
So... you are a tank, not a damage dealer, you are meant to go there, eat damage and bother the enemy, while the damage dealer nuke them.
Stance ending, crippling, etc...
If you lose all your adrenaline is to prevent a huge array of hits to someone depending on a blocking stance, to prevent making it completely useless.
You cold say it is: "Ok, now you can hit me, but not so hard"
Then, a Dervish can do that, but they will have to sacrifice other much better skills to do so. Why to use wild blow when you can deal more than 200 unblockable holy damage?
Osi Ri S
Ok, tanks dont TANK anymore, (only in very few places) they deal massive damage. Warriors have the highest maintained DPS out there so dont go saying warriors arent meant to do damage.
Also, Dervishes use Wild Blow because its a very non-conditional damage skill that does ALOT of damage with a scythe. I havent played my dervish lately but i remember doing 80+ damage from using wild blow.
And where can you do 200+ holy damage? (im assumi you meant the 200 dmg from a spell) unless its on an undead creature then i dont see it happening. i would take wild blow ANYDAY over your so called 200 unblockable holy damage.
Back on topic, the skill is unbalanced but with Anet concentrating on GW: EotN and GW2 dont expect to see a nerf anytime soon.
Also, Dervishes use Wild Blow because its a very non-conditional damage skill that does ALOT of damage with a scythe. I havent played my dervish lately but i remember doing 80+ damage from using wild blow.
And where can you do 200+ holy damage? (im assumi you meant the 200 dmg from a spell) unless its on an undead creature then i dont see it happening. i would take wild blow ANYDAY over your so called 200 unblockable holy damage.
Back on topic, the skill is unbalanced but with Anet concentrating on GW: EotN and GW2 dont expect to see a nerf anytime soon.
MithranArkanere
Woops... I forgot about the 'always critical' part of the skill... that hurts...
Hm... in this case the fastest and easiest way to nerf it would be to make it disable all attack skills for some sconds instead of removing all adrenaline...
Hm... in this case the fastest and easiest way to nerf it would be to make it disable all attack skills for some sconds instead of removing all adrenaline...
Raxxman
make WB only work on warrior weapons?
MithranArkanere
Hm... that could work too... moving it to strenght and adding 50% chance to fail is strenght is not 4 or more, XD.
lyra_song
You could make it fail to always critical without strength at 4
But make it always break stances.
But make it always break stances.
Strange Guy
Uhmm...not really, there is a reason why it is in Non-ATRIBUTE skill. It does not belong to Warrior as it will cause lose adreline. But for a Warrior, it's not completely bad. You can use the combo of 2 Heavy Adreline Skill then finish the target with Wild blow since it will hit for sure. Non-atribute skills are primary for ALL classes. Wild Blow itself is SPAMABLE. If change it to "Not lose any adreline" then it will be a bit too powerful. When I play Shock W, the skill I like is Protector Strike because it's spammable. If Wild Blow can be spammed like that, I could not imagine how good it can be. Critical = 28 dmg no matter what. With HIGHER axe mastery, the dmg can be double with 16 axe. That make up the 50+ dmg. That I did not count the 10-11% Penalty a normal Warrior can deal. If hit the soft target such as monk or mesmer, the dmg can be easily come up to 90+ dmg per hit at least and it can knock out stances plus unblockable. That will make Trappers = useless, Distortion on Mesmer will be gone, Hex breaker will be ineffective. The combo Dragon Slash, Final Thrust and Wild Blow will be amazingly powerful!
For the Dervish, I have not seen any too powerful about them. I do agree Wil blow on Derv is awesome but it is not a big problem. The average dmg can be 50-80+ dmg! For the area dmg like that is not bad at all! Derv does not deal extra dmg like a Warrior do, Plus the attack rate of Scythe is really low! And Derv is soft target. Using Derv instead of Warrior is not always the better choice! Using Warrior, your team can survive with less defense but using Derv, you have to re-consider about defensive line. It's a trade off, 1 way or another! Lower defense = higher in offense.
/notsign
For the Dervish, I have not seen any too powerful about them. I do agree Wil blow on Derv is awesome but it is not a big problem. The average dmg can be 50-80+ dmg! For the area dmg like that is not bad at all! Derv does not deal extra dmg like a Warrior do, Plus the attack rate of Scythe is really low! And Derv is soft target. Using Derv instead of Warrior is not always the better choice! Using Warrior, your team can survive with less defense but using Derv, you have to re-consider about defensive line. It's a trade off, 1 way or another! Lower defense = higher in offense.
/notsign
Coran Ironclaw
removing the penalty wont solve the problem of scythes overusing it.
i /sign for moving it to strenght and req 4 on attribute or 50% chance to miss.
i /sign for moving it to strenght and req 4 on attribute or 50% chance to miss.
max gladius
/notsigned
Penalty is keeping warriors ballanced and must stay...
Imagine a hammer warrior rushing anyone with an instant stance breaker and keeping their full adren.... that would be bloody..
All the stance breakers have some requirement to them...
wild throw - 7 adren (thats alot) breaks stance +5-17 dmg
wild blow - 5 eng, critical hit, loose all adren
wild strike - 5 eng, must follow a lead attack
I would /sign if you were saying to keep as is, but add *only hits one target* to the line for it, cause i do feel that dervish hitting 3 ppl with it is to much
Penalty is keeping warriors ballanced and must stay...
Imagine a hammer warrior rushing anyone with an instant stance breaker and keeping their full adren.... that would be bloody..
All the stance breakers have some requirement to them...
wild throw - 7 adren (thats alot) breaks stance +5-17 dmg
wild blow - 5 eng, critical hit, loose all adren
wild strike - 5 eng, must follow a lead attack
I would /sign if you were saying to keep as is, but add *only hits one target* to the line for it, cause i do feel that dervish hitting 3 ppl with it is to much
Div
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Hm... in this case the fastest and easiest way to nerf it would be to make it disable all attack skills for some sconds instead of removing all adrenaline...
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MithranArkanere
Well, instead heliing warriors, that would make it not so powerfull for Dervishes.
Keithark
Make several of the dervish attacks adrenaline based..solves them being at unfair advantage with wild blow which seems to be the biggest commplaint on the thread.
Takuna
The amount of Dervishes that say the warrior is overpowered and therefore overpopular... Dude, it's. one. skill... The warrior is actually freaking good WITHOUT this skill. The dervishes Scythes has a high max damage, eh? Well, it has a low minimum damage and thus it's average isn't all as high as you think. Scythe average = 25. Sword average = 18.5 AND you get to hold a shield AND you get high AL anyway, so don't complain about the dervish being able to hit three targets at a time. Plus, your adrenaline can be a massive strength in other situations, so you can't call it an all-out bad thing.
I'm sure that assassins would like to be able to use skills out of sequence but that would make them too powerful. I'm sure they'd also like to have their poxy 7-17 weapon damage buffed... In fact, there's a funny thing, the assassin has rubbish weapon damage like that and they can still rack up more focused damage that a warrior or dervish. So it just shows that the weapon's max damage doesn't really reflect on how well a profession performs.
I'm sure that assassins would like to be able to use skills out of sequence but that would make them too powerful. I'm sure they'd also like to have their poxy 7-17 weapon damage buffed... In fact, there's a funny thing, the assassin has rubbish weapon damage like that and they can still rack up more focused damage that a warrior or dervish. So it just shows that the weapon's max damage doesn't really reflect on how well a profession performs.
Thomas.knbk
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
So... you are a tank, not a damage dealer, you are meant to go there, eat damage and bother the enemy, while the damage dealer nuke them.
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It's outdated, but the fact that warriors have the highest maintained DPS in the game is still true.
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Originally Posted by Strange Guy
the skill I like is Protector Strike because it's spammable. If Wild Blow can be spammed like that, I could not imagine how good it can be.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Strange Guy
The average dmg can be 50-80+ dmg! For the area dmg like that is not bad at all! Derv does not deal extra dmg like a Warrior do, Plus the attack rate of Scythe is really low!
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The attack rate of scytes is slow, but this is bypassed with 3/4 sec activation attacks, like eremites so you can still dish out a mean spike.
The best option imo is to link it to strenght and make it:
If Wild Blow hits, this attack has an additional 10....65..75% chance of being a critical hit and any Stance being used by your target ends. This attack cannot be "blocked".
At 12 strength you would have a ~90% chance on a critical hit. It would no longer be imba on dervs, and warriors could actually use it because it no longer has an adrenaline loss attatched to it.
Not A Fifty Five
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Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk
The best option imo is to link it to strenght and make it:
If Wild Blow hits, this attack has an additional 10....65..75% chance of being a critical hit and any Stance being used by your target ends. This attack cannot be "blocked". At 12 strength you would have a ~90% chance on a critical hit. It would no longer be imba on dervs, and warriors could actually use it because it no longer has an adrenaline loss attatched to it. |
Curse You
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk
The best option imo is to link it to strenght and make it:
If Wild Blow hits, this attack has an additional 10....65..75% chance of being a critical hit and any Stance being used by your target ends. This attack cannot be "blocked". At 12 strength you would have a ~90% chance on a critical hit. It would no longer be imba on dervs, and warriors could actually use it because it no longer has an adrenaline loss attatched to it. |
Quite frankly, moving skills from one attribute to another should be reserved as a last resort, if there is nothing else that can be done.
Making it only work with warrior weapons kind of defeats the purpose of it being a Melee Attack.
The best option I can see is to remove the adrenaline loss, since then a warrior could be on par with Assassins and Dervishes.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Strange Guy
Uhmm...not really, there is a reason why it is in Non-ATRIBUTE skill. It does not belong to Warrior as it will cause lose adreline. But for a Warrior, it's not completely bad. You can use the combo of 2 Heavy Adreline Skill then finish the target with Wild blow since it will hit for sure. Non-atribute skills are primary for ALL classes.
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MithranArkanere
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Originally Posted by Keithark
Make several of the dervish attacks adrenaline based..solves them being at unfair advantage with wild blow which seems to be the biggest commplaint on the thread.
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Warrior and Paragon, armor 80, adrenal/energy skills
Dervish, Ranger and Assassin, armor 70, energy skills only.
That's how it is. That won't change.
lyra_song
meh..
[wiki]Wild Blow[/wiki]
Move it to strength.
No changes to cost or recharge:
Melee Attack: Lose All Adrenaline. If it hits, this attack has a 0-100% chance of a critical hit. If it hits, any Stance being used by your target ends. This attacked cannot be Blocked.
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Only warriors will take full advantage of the critical.
Other melee classes will still keep the unblockable stance breaker.
[wiki]Wild Blow[/wiki]
Move it to strength.
No changes to cost or recharge:
Melee Attack: Lose All Adrenaline. If it hits, this attack has a 0-100% chance of a critical hit. If it hits, any Stance being used by your target ends. This attacked cannot be Blocked.
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Only warriors will take full advantage of the critical.
Other melee classes will still keep the unblockable stance breaker.
max gladius
^^^ i agree with that, or making it say, only hits 1 target
BSSuperman
What? Wild Blow is the Mutts Nutts - guaranteeed hit, unconditional stance removal and always critical attack? Assassin/Warrior hunting down stance monks.. Mwuahahahahaaha
Evilsod
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk
What do you mean by extra damage? If you mean the armor penetration caused by strength, go do some math. It's neglectable in the long run.
The attack rate of scytes is slow, but this is bypassed with 3/4 sec activation attacks, like eremites so you can still dish out a mean spike. The best option imo is to link it to strenght and make it: If Wild Blow hits, this attack has an additional 10....65..75% chance of being a critical hit and any Stance being used by your target ends. This attack cannot be "blocked". At 12 strength you would have a ~90% chance on a critical hit. It would no longer be imba on dervs, and warriors could actually use it because it no longer has an adrenaline loss attatched to it. |
Lyra... the whole point is to remove losing all adrenaline. Its not worth 5 energy for a certified critical hit to just spam randomly when you have very poor regen. Its just not worth taking on a Primary Warrior, a Dervish can just take it for the hell of it, removing a stance is a bonus.
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by Evilsod
Lyra... the whole point is to remove losing all adrenaline. Its not worth 5 energy for a certified critical hit to just spam randomly when you have very poor regen. Its just not worth taking on a Primary Warrior, a Dervish can just take it for the hell of it, removing a stance is a bonus.
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It is a very powerful effect and because of that the 3 stance breakers are conditional.
Wild Blow - Low cost, low recharge, unblockable but lose all adrenaline but get critical.
Wild Throw - Costs 7 adrenaline, unblockable
Wild Strike - low cost, low recharge, OFF-HAND, blockable.
My proposed change fits the purpose of the skill. Stance Breaking. Not damage. This is supposed to be a utilitarian skill, not a primary spammable attack.
Evilsod
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
No....stance breaking is the purpose of Wild Blow. To cause critical damage is the bonus, kind of a payback for losing all that adrenaline.
It is a very powerful effect and because of that the 3 stance breakers are conditional. Wild Blow - Low cost, low recharge, unblockable but lose all adrenaline but get critical. Wild Throw - Costs 7 adrenaline, unblockable Wild Strike - low cost, low recharge, OFF-HAND, blockable. My proposed change fits the purpose of the skill. Stance Breaking. Not damage. This is supposed to be a utilitarian skill, not a primary spammable attack. |
My point is a warrior would never use this as a damage skill primarily, a dervish does. Unless the Adren loss is removed warriors won't bring it for stance removal because its not worth the risk of it been useless.
lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Evilsod
For a warrior it is. For a Dervish its just plain damage. The stance breaker is just a reason to favour it over other skills. It can hit 3 targets for critical damage removing upto 3 stances in the same attack for 5 energy with absolutely no penalty. This skill WAS balanced for a Primary Warrior, now its completely pathetic compared to a D/W using it. Theres no reason it should remain the same, the dervish can spam it all he likes, it can also be an unpreventable way of removing an enchantment with Grenth.
My point is a warrior would never use this as a damage skill primarily, a dervish does. Unless the Adren loss is removed warriors won't bring it for stance removal because its not worth the risk of it been useless. |
Dervish uses it for damage.
This is why my idea was to move it to strength and base the critical on strength.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Melee Attack: Lose All Adrenaline. If it hits, this attack has a 0-100% chance of a critical hit. If it hits, any Stance being used by your target ends. This attacked cannot be Blocked.
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It will function basically function the same way for a warrior, although you would need to increase your strength attribute for a higher critical.
We can modify the skill to hit only 1 target for balance out the inherent AOE of the scythe.
Taking out the "lose all adrenaline" is very very radical change and shifts the purpose of the skill.
This is NOT a damage skill. It is a utility skill and should remain so.