GW 2 open skill base not level grind !

Hello everyone. I think instead of having a high level cap on GW2 it would be better to have a open skill point system something like SWG had in pre-CU. (Its one thing they did right IMOA). It would give you a good balanced PVP/PVE base as well as a greater veriaty of possible char. types, and a high XP cap without having to change your existing system that much just simplify it by taking out the level cap! and use the skill cap (which is already in place) after all why mess up a good system that works , for a over used system that everyone is tiered of. you see if you have a open skill point system PPL can make the type of char they want to do what they want in the game solo, PVP or PVE even specialize in killing something specific like drakes or what not.

P.S. get rid of the auto attacks so farmers cant expoit this new game ! but this is a different subject.

1. It's undecided what function the high lvl cap would have. It very well could be simply aesthetic, with an attribute point cap like you suggested (and like GW already has) providing the true max for character development.

2. I don't want to hit spacebar 100 times every battle as my warrior in order to fight, please. Auto attacks are excellent and actually good for gameplay; besides, removing auto attacks would actually benefit bot farmers. What does a computer care if it has to hit a certain key 100 times during every battle? A human, on the other hand, would get carpal tunnel methinks =/

yeah auto attack should stay. open skill base?? what is that
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I don't think we need auto attacks just more skills to use and more energy to use them. We should be able to chain together many attacks to replace auto attacking.

Although they probably will keep auto attacking..

I was thinking an Oblivion-esque system, which I believe is similar to what you're suggesting. I just hope they keep the 8-skills-at-a-time limit.

Auto-Attack is in MMORPGs because it ignores latency (the servers knows to attack) and thus creates less problems if the player client lags.

Oblivion wouldn't work online. You could use Weakness stacking to get your stats to 1000000 Health, 1000000 Magicka, and 1000000 of any other stat. It wasn't permament, but it was interesting. And the aforementioned latency problem...

Keep the auto-attack, please. As much as I love Diablo 2 and click-fests, Guild Wars makes you pay attention to more important things, and I don't want clicking to be one of them.

I HATE CLICKING!

Thank you

Manual attack doesn't help against botters. It doesn't hinder them at all.

Maybe if your "click to attack" button jumps all over the screen, THEN the botters will be in a bit of strife. Hahahaha.

I think the idea of having a high level cap (between 80-100) is the best idea. It gives it the classical mmorpg leveling fun, with an ANet twist.

i agrre with above, but i dont think Anet is going to go from a lvl 20 cap to 80 or 100 in one game.

lvl cap at 80 to 100?!?!?!?!?!

do u guys have any clue whatsoever oh what guild wars is all about?! its about using ur SKILL, not getting to the super high lvl and the uber epic armor! if the lvl cap was at 100, then pvp would be ruined for the first part. Making a pvp only character starting at lvl 100 would destroy the game in the first part. second, pve would be only about getting to lvl 100, just like all the other mmos. once you get to lvl 100, the game is basically over, so u would walk over to pvp, but you would find out that all ur efforts to getting to lvl 100 would be ruined because you have a new player who just made a pvp toon in about 20 seconds starting out with that uber epic armor that u spent months of hard work acquiring.

I say that they keep the lvl cap at 20, no more then 30. I love the way they have it now. I was talking to a guildy yesterday who wanted somebody to help him get to lvl 20. I told him to go to cantha and do a couple of quests and that he will get there in about 2 hours. I also said that getting to lvl 20 takes a pitiful amount of effort. It should stay that way, once you hit lvl 20 then.....woo hoo.....you have just scratched the surface of the iceberg.

raising the lvl cap to 100 would be devistating for the game, completely wiping out the fact that players have to use skill, not hours of playing time, to do good. I mean, come on, look inside the cover of the first guild wars box, the first thing u see is players have to use skill, not playing time.

*edit*
I will accept having a lvl cap at 100 for only one reason. The attribute points in gw are amazing. Keeping the max at like 200, or having another set max would be good. If you could acquire all of the attribute points at a set lvl, say 20 or 30, and all of the future lvls would all be about experience, and would not effect your armor rating, attack power, health, energy, or anything like that. What some ppl are hinting at is a never ending lvl system, which would work if your character would reach his full strength at lvl 20 or 30, and achieving lvl 100 would only be possible if you have 20 million xp. Its kinda like the system today, every 15k experience you get a skill point, but instead of that they would also add in another lvl.

Of course, as you go further into the game, the monsters cant just stay at a maximum of lvl 28. They too will have to have high lvls, but it wont make them any stronger, just make the ai for them beefed up to the max.

It's whatever Arenanet makes it to be.

We know little about the level cap, just that it will be over 20. We don't know if it will be cosmetic or not. But, how would having PvP players at 100 ruin the game, if that's the level cap? Isn't that similar to what Guild Wars 1 did, have all PvP characters start at the cap?

Ok first of all, any casual player can get at least one character from 1-100 without much problem. Having the level cap at only 20 was far too easy, people were reaching the max in only 6 hours of gameplay. Having a higher cap allows for a longer PvE storyline, as well as something to continue working for.

Second, we don't even know if the leveling scale is the same. 1-20 in GW2 may take less time than 1-20 does in the original.

I think the majority of people who want to stick with a level 20 cap are just afraid there will be more competition at the higher level, and more work to get there, so they use the "it won't be skill based, it will be level based" excuse. But if ANet actually releases GW2 with a higher cap, everyone will see that it is possible to have a high level cap with skilled based PvP. After all, ANet has always been aware of balancing issues and fairness.

a low lvl cap is devastating to any rpg because it makes character development impossible, low lvl cap simply sucks in pve, you complete the game, you reach max lvl very fast, now you play around with skills and thats it you have _nothing_ to do if you dont like pvp

Grind isn't development.

Grind based games are popular for one reason - if you have enough time, you'll be uber. Regardless of any kind of wit behind it. Of course, working at assembly line for 30 years doesn't make one an excellent engineer.

Character development is about developing a character - levels prevent that, you can't develop anything until you're capped on level.

You don't develop your character through levels in WoW. You grind until 60/70 until you can start farming instances for epic loot. And not to develop your character, but to be able to survive.

What good is developing a character before maximum level when all your gear and all investment will be obsolete when you reach maximum level?

So you end up developing your character only *after* you've reached the cap. The logical conclusion - optimal character development is possible only in a system with no levels.

watching your character grow isn't grind and it sucks if you reach max lvl in six hours

finding better equipment is fun, it adds diversity to the game, you can't find better weapons in gw, everything is cosmetical and all items have the same boring stats

no lvl = you can't even reach lvl 1. how many skill points you have with lvl 0, how many possibilities do you have to develop your character ? not many, the lvl cap prevents anything. I know games without lvls exist but they have something common.. they don't work well nor are they popular

Character development has nothing to do with level. It has to do with story. See all of the accomplishments yoru character makes? Sunspear General, Being Infused, Weh no Su, etc. Those develop your character, NOT a little number that tells you you're more powerful than you were one level ago.

God, what a waste of money if the only part of character development you enjoy is seeing your level go up by one point. After you reached level 20, did you stop playing ($50 for "6 hours" of play. Ouch. Meanwhile, it definitely took me a lot longer than 6 hours to reach level 20. I'd say between 10-20 hours of play. I could probably make it to level 20 that fast if I had grinded and just spent my time "killing boars", but that was one of the reasons I didn't like playing WoW.)

For me, the game became even more fun after reaching level 20. I bought a bunch of skills, capped elites, and was actually accepted into groups for Vizunah Square. There's so much more to the game than seeing a level go up by one point, there's exploring, capping new elites, and actually finishing the storyline. One of the things I enjoyed about when Nightfall first came out was that exploring was so much more important. You couldn't just go to the wiki and be like "alright, where do I find the boss with this elite." You actually had to search the world for these beings with cool skills. Granted, not everyone's like that, but exploring a new world is exciting to me.

I'd be very accepting of a "cosmetic" level system that has a set number of attribute points, (GW system did work very well for that), but if being a level 50 means that you can pwn a group of level 40s by yourself, then I'll be spending all my time in GW1.

Ok, so GW2's level cap will not matter in GvG at least because everyone there will start with max level and all skills.

As for PvE, after thinking about the high level cap system for a bit, I realized there are actually very few downfalls. Gameplay should remain balanced:

• More attribute points will keep skills useful.
  I doubt we'll see the system in WoW with the same skill duplicated with just different ranks.
• Hopefully energy(mana) remains persistent.
  This is a key to skill balance in GW1, regardless of level.
• Think about each level in GW2 as 1/5th of a level in GW1.
  GW1 wasn't so skill based that a lvl 2 could solo a lvl 20 mob.

The only downfall I see is that the higher level cap is intended to lengthen character development, this will make getting to high level content more difficult and also lessen profession experimentation.

I hope the sidekick system will work both ways, so high levels can help low levels, as was implemented in City of Heroes.



I wonder how the limited skill bar system will adapt to a persistent world. If people will be forming teams in explorable areas, perhaps there will be a way to change your skills and attributes outside town. Perhaps you will be required to have been out of combat for a set time. What I would hate is being able to use any skill at anytime, that would clutter my screen with grids of tiny icons like in WoW.




I hope travel to and between towns will remain instantaneous and free, I think Anet knows how tedious and fustrating waiting for your character to autorun through mobs to towns is.

As long as the loot system supports the levelling rules I am all for it.
Make armor and weapons level requirements would also be benificial.

I was/am a huge fan and player of PSO...that system works very well. A blend of PSO to GW content and story, WOW

I miss the skill based system SWG had pre CU. Hell I just miss SWG pre CU. It worked for SWG but I dont know how it would work out in the Guild Wars "realm" I cant wait to see what they come up with for GW 2. Im sure the dev team working on it has something up there sleeves to keep it interesting and inovative.
On a side note I dont want to grind my ass off either I did that once in SWG. I unlocked Jedi 2 weeks before the CU hit. Then I took like a 4 or 5 month break came back and grinded my ass off again trying to hit lvl 80 before the NGE ......played about 10 mins worth of that craptastic "upgrade" and quit.

Hi all,

i would recommend a limited level cap with lvl 100 max.
WHY?
I have 2 points that i would like to bring up
>>---|>
1) a 100 lvl character would be good but how long you have to grind[level up] until you can play pvp?
i would prefer that pvp chars could enter the "arena" after lvl 20 or 30 with fully pvp capable stats/items.
After this lvl you could just lvl on with small bonuses or access to not so special areas still most of the world should be available to characters with lower lvl .
A lvl 50 should not be much different from a lvl 99 except from the xp earned and some pve bonuses.

2) if ppl level up looong they mostly go after 1 character/class they forget about the other proffesions from that follows the allround skill and class knowledge of most players. Guildwars PVP wouldn't benefit from this.

a LVL 100 could have special PVE items unlockable or some reward system.

Still i like to grind my assasin in 17hours to Survivor.

Not sure if this is what's being asked but I have a few ideas that I would just like to throw out there.

Keep a fairly low attribute cap to help insure no grinding and a more balanced field, but greatly increase level cap. Increase level cap to level 100, but cap attributes at 30 though to help give a little more importance to leveling up and give it a little more length, without a huge change.

Increases past thirty don't increase health, energy, attributee, etc., but grant people special bonus's. This helps to promote continual play and leveling, while reducing the need to grind to level 100 to get better (somewhat similar to what lynxi said). For instance, lvl 50's could get 5% discount on max armor and access to a special dungeon, and things like this would increase the higher level you got., without them actually getting more powerful.

Just some thoughts.

I means just that you finished tutorial ... nothing more ... not that you are done with game.

And this is ... good thing.

And frankly, you can find better items in GW. They are called "rare skins", and are huge achievemnt.

Of course, they dont make you über, but you should get over that little munchkin thing.

You should get over Leve thing before discussing no level system.

Fist, having no level in no way means that your character will be weak.

You skill points argument is flawed - you can easily get skill points equivament on non-level system by finishign quests of slaying boss monsters, for example. Or you can get skills themselves as quest rewards... Youi can be very creative with gameplay rewards.

Pupular games without levels:

* Doom, And hordes of its folowers.
* Adventure games (i am talking monkey island thingies in here)
* Pretty much any strategy or arcade.

You see, gamers dotn need that leveliung drug to get high.

Of course, you want RPG's without levels:

Betrayal At Krondor. one of finest rpgs ever with great story, etc. (yes, graphics sucks, i dont care, if you need graphics to make good story, its not good story.)

Ultima Online - thousands of addicts want to say hi.

Not succesfull ... blah. Not working - um?

Once you reach max lvl you can't improve your character can you ? The only thing you can do is get better weapon skins. You finish the game, do other quests and play around with skills thats it.


"everything is cosmetical and all items have the same boring stats "
I disagree, items with identical and boring stats isn't a good thing...........
No one wants overpowered weapons, people want items which actually do something useful or give synergies to a skill, not another shiny weaponskin with a nice shader effect, soon or later every game will have nice graphics what you want is weapon mod diversity instead of shiny pictures on your screen.

What do you want? Hamster wheel to keep you playing even if you already did everything? Why not just take break after that. There is nothing wrong with that.

Also, what about capping elites and learning skills is it not development? Or visiting new town and unlocking it for map travel. Or learning new seocndary ... Yes, it does not make you überer. Nothing does. Nothig should.

Playing around with skills is kinda point of this game. Its actually what makes it fun, figuring out new stuff while getting aways from estabilised old stuff.

Well, if you follow good-old 20/20, 15^50, 30hp pattern you will see little of varied weapons.

I would hardly call weapon mods not diverse - check out priest of balthazar for complehensive listing, the fact you dont use most of em is not games fault.

And yes, there are mods that nechance your skills or synergize with skills. All of them do.

For fine example, check out bow collections of some rangers ... every bow havin gdifferent stats and each being actually used in apropriate situations.

My warrior has bags full of weapons, each differenlty moddead, each getting use.

There is a huge problem with the discussion of the GW2 level system since we don't know how it works.. They really haven't explained much.

I like & dislike aspects of the GW & Traditional level systems. If they can fuse constant progression & a Fair PvE system (not having to be level 10000000 to fight the Red Dragon of Doom or get access to the Totally Awesome Axe of Uberness) then I'll be amazed & happy.

But as it is, we don't know what they are doing.