GWEN and Mesmers.

I noticed all the talk about the 50 pve-only skills being introduced in GWEN, and I remember some time back hearing Gaile Gray talking about "changing the mesmer in PvE", so my unique theory is that (perhaps) GWEN will introduce mesmer skills that allow for something that mesmers should have had from the beginning: Charm skills. Probably a non-elite for charming basic creatures, and an elite for charming bosses. It'd make sense, and it would get people interested in playing Mesmers in PvE again (I already do, but have no problem with additional things to do with my mesmer :>). It would more than likely mean that there would be an additional menu for control of these "charmed" creatures, and hopefully that same menu could be implemented in the control of Minion Masters (Balthazar knows we NEED a minion-menu).
(Gwen looks to be a mesmer in this game too, so giving mesmers something more to play with than most campaigns do seems likely.)
My other theories pertaining to the release of pve-only skills are that there will be introduced some new resurrection spells for pve that will be non-profession and attribute specific, and unlike res-sig in that you don't have to kill a boss to regain it.

These are just some things that are more my ideas for GWEN than things that are likely to happen, but that being said I don't think they're far off from possible. I was also the guy that said [prior to Nightfall] that Nightfall would incorporate night/day progression in instanced areas, with different bosses and quests available depending on the time of day. I still think that would have been great, but alas...

Anyway, tell me your ideas.

As much as I would like to belive this (and I really would!), I think this will end up like the UBER 1337 pwrful beastly Lightbringer Signet, which everyone uses. -_-

I don't. Not really. I think capping a Bladed Aatxe in UW would be highly useful, or capping a monk, for that matter. Think about it, if mesmers did the stuff they already did, and on top of that could add what would be technically another player for a period of time, people would actually care to get mesmers in their group(s).

What are you basing this idea of "creature capping" on? I mean, what makes you think its going to happen? I mean yeah, capping an enemy monk or ele would be awsome, but I really doubt they would put this in their skill selection, because then you could have a party of eight mesmers capping all the enemies needed for that area/mission.

An example would be eight mesmers, all with this new PvE only skill, and capping 8 Burning Titans. They wouldn't need to heal themselves with a monk or Rit, because they could let their capped creatures kill/be killed by the opponents and then re-cap what is left.

Amazing, but waaaaay too powerful.

I love this idea. What they'd have to do, though, is somehow link it to Fast Cast, and make increasingly higher levels allowed to charm increasingly higher-leveled creatures. Otherwise, we'd have a ton of Mesmer secondaries charming everything, and nothing will really change. Mesmers need to be unique AND useful, not just one or the other.

Exactly. It'd rock. The mesmers need their own thing that is WAAAY too powerful. Besides, that wouldn't be the end of it (cap target creature). It'd be more nerfed than that. Probably (cap target creature with level equal or less than yours). Something like that.

I know it's highly unlikely, but imagine if mesmers could charm maybe a max of 5 or so enemies. Imagine charming like enemies who could make armies and then a monk enemy so they'd keep them healed. Free MMs anyone?

If you could only cap a creature equal or less level than you then in many instances, the actually difficult ones where this would be needed, mesmers wouldn't be able to cap anything because everything is level 24-30.

I've mentioned this before in the "Make mesmers more powerful in PvE" thread, or something like that. Actual control of a monster as if it were a pet or hero might be a bit much. However, we could at least hope for something that maybe turns a monster against his buddies for a short time, or confuse them so they attack randomly or occasionally help the group.

I also mentioned some other PvE-only skills we could look for from a mesmer, like creating an illusionary clone of yourself that will aggro the monsters for a short time, possibly with a limited health bar, or something linked to your energy, but cannot attack or use skills. Also, invisibility and mob-scattering effects (that aren't nukes) could be nice. The mesmer has a way to go to be a true mind-manipulator and illusionist, and PvE-only skills are definately the way to go.

I have a Domination mesmer and I can dish out more damage than anyone in groups most times. With skills like backfire, empathy, wastrel's worry, energy burn and surge just to name a few, no other class can dish out damage faster than a mesmer unless you echo spiteful spirit with a necro or even an Air ele cause I believe their skills recharge faster than fire

In any case, I'm glad you made this thread, b/c I want to see Mesmers in Guild Wars 2.

*drool* yup all great ideas but i dont think any of em will be possible couse GW isnt that kind of game...but who knows maybe PvE skills can really be more "creative" sice they dont need to worry about using em against other players...

Charming would deffinetly be awsome....for example you charm one enemy for short period of time and can control him like u control a hero...
...also group scattering would be great too...something like mass fear so all mobs that are attacking you flee for couple of seconds....
Or maybe a nice spell ,to help eles nuke, is to petrify mob so he cant move but he can attack and cast so he stands in one place ^^

I just cant wait for mesmer update...


And hell yeah...if there arent mesmers in gw 2 im not playing ^^...

OMG, I just now thought of something along the same lines as the Mesmer charm-type skills, but for the necro - finally, the ability to raise the actual monster from the dead to fight for you! Just like good ol' Diablo!

The ability to charm could be posible if it was for a short period of time or something, cause if you could control the enemy for an unlimited period of time that could be a little overpowered.

And also there should be some limits ofc, like creature level, distance from caster-creature and the skill should be or elite or obtained in an advanced stage of the game.

Making an enemy berserk for a short period of time would be nice; basically an idea from Final Fantasy were the character attacks faster, but attacking is all they can do.

PvE-only skills, no matter how they're done, majorly detract from the game and its charm.

This idea sounds better, or charming is only a set time like 10 seconds or 30 seconds and the recharge is like 60 seconds
and perhaps a skill will have a chance to fail if your attribute isn't greater then (creature level - 6)
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Amen to that.

[QUOTE=killercroc]This idea sounds better, or charming is only a set time like 10 seconds or 30 seconds and the recharge is like 60 seconds
and perhaps a skill will have a chance to fail if your attribute isn't greater then (creature level - 6)
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The problem with recharge times being the weakness to a skill like this in PvE is that you simply wait for it to recharge. If it recharged after you killed a certain amount of foes, that would be better.

one thing i dont understand is the lack of real illusion spells. most of them are just degens.
there aint a mirror image spell for example (creatin an illusion of self ).
it would be a good spell for pve cos mobs would not knwow which is the real one and might attack the illusion first.

Regardless of what A-Net done with mesmers in GW 2. I'm sure peoples would still buy the game.

Well of course....and we werent talking about that btw....

Eheh a nice illusion spell would be some sort of camuflage,for example:
-a spell that makes you look like a target ally for some period of time decieving the enemy....ok maybe stupid but you could look like monk and tease the opposing players tough it is kinda PvP skill...

...bah nvm

Mesmers are still high priority targets in PvP, as much as Monks in some cases. Just saying

My Mesmer Rant:

All they need to do for Mesmers is make Fastcasting USEFUL. Right now, fastcasting does nothing to make Mesmers more effective, where EVERY OTHER PRIMARY ATTRIBUTE makes a class useful to thier skill lines. With Mes interrupts casting at 1/4 second anyway, anything that can be interrupted can already be done so in plenty of time WITHOUT fastcasting. Even skills that take longer than 1/4 second dont really benifit from fastcasting because of OTHER people interrupting YOU. 2 Second cast diversion is NOT better than a 3 second because a ranger with a recurve can STILL distract it away.

To fix Mesmers, link fastcasting to something useful like energy spent on spells (like expertise for skills) or that and spell recharge and they will be slightly less worthless in parties. Then Mesmers could at least effectivly nuke or heal or something. Also, please disallow interrupt skills executing when they cause no effect! 15e for a Cry of Frustration, and if you miss, your energy is gone and the skill is gone too (yes, I hate my ping).

Nobody in PvE wants to take a mesmer on an entire mission because everything a mesmer does can be done BETTER by another class. You could take an ele for way more damage, or a ranger for damage AND interrupts. Want Degen? Necromancers are better!

Mesmers should be Kings of spell spamming - give them the opportunity (energy and recharge) to do so.

/rant

Now, I don't play mesmer, but yeah, I've taken mesmers in groups in PvE. They're handy to have, and anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't played with a good one. Their loss. About the FC "buff"....FC is allready quite nice. Fast casting nukers, anyone? or healers? Yeah, ok, mesmers suck in PvE <_< Sure. I'll believe that when I see it. Havn't so far. And as for your PvP examples, yeah, we're talking about PvE mesmers.

On to the "charm" "idea"...That would just be plain silly. Even if it were horribly limited. And it doesn't even follow the theme of the Mesmer class. If you want something to make Mesmers more "interesting" for -you-, then maybe some form of illusionary mimicry spell; For non-elites. Such as: Put enchantment on ally, next spell/skill Ally casts is copied by that skill, and the skill becomes it. Or something.

I actually think the charming would fit in with the mesmer class.

They follow the goddess Lyssa right? Beauty and illusion?

I don't see how charming could possibly not fit in with those traits ^^

I never had a problem getting my mesmer through the game but maybe that was just good timing but still I agree, most people dont look for mesmers in pve groups. If you aren't a monk, war or necro or a fire ele then you might be waiting awhile for a group. Thank god for heros eh ?

Then that skill would be useless once you got to the Crystal Desert, Kaiang City, and the place in NF I don't care to remember. :S

I LOVE my mesmer and I really disagree with the belief of many that mesmers are not good in PvE. Mesmers just take a bit longer to get used to and carefull attention to skills, attributes, ect. With the right build no mesmer is useless or less powerful in PvE.

Now, that being said I would still love to see improvements on mesmer skills ect. I love mesmers and heck, who wouldn't enjoy a power boost?

To counter the charming being too powerful why not just make it like the resurrection signet, like one use per mission?

If you know how to play a mesmer correctly, they are THE MOST POWERFUL CLASS IN THIS GAME. Emphasis on MOST. Two mesmers is a devastating combo. In PvE, take a mesmer with 12 fire magic and 16 fast cast and the rest in inspiration for kicks and giggles. Have a 55hp BiP necro in your party, Mantra of Recovery + Phoenix + Fireball + Rodgorts Invocation + Meteor Shower + Searing Heat + Immolate + Flare (flare is great for steady dmg to high AL targets). You will RIP through stuff like a hot knife through butter. I played this build about 2 months ago on Closer to the Stars mission for masters, we got it with time to spare. Drop flare for powerspike and through 15 in fast cast, and the rest in domination for a nice steady interrupt with decent armor ignoring dmg (PVE ONLY BUILD... dont bring this into pvp pls...)

Problem with that build of yours is it relies too much on el skills for damage.

To the person who said illusion is just degen, I will agree with you. It'd be nice if you had a mirror image spell that would cause some attacks and damage spells to go after your mirror image. Or maybe add an illusion spell that makes the screen go all funky colors, causes you to lose your current target, and makes everything around you red (something you can attack). Or how about an invisibility spell that makes it impossible for people on the other team to see or target you so long as you don't attack or use a spell that deals damage. Or perhaps some illusion nuke spells that do part of their damage in chaos and part in one of the elements.

Its a nice idea in a limited way - the problem is that there are no AI affecting skills in GW - The only real AI affecting skills are AoE spells which make the baddies stop what they are doing and run.

I think that its totally in the spirit of Illusion to make enemies go beserk or suddenly believe that the monster next to them suddenly wants their blood and attack their former allies. All making a doppelganger appear and all the monsters go off to kill that instead. (Running will become the job of the Mesmer^^) However these skills have absolutely no place in PvP as they are only affecting AI. Something that has been clear since the start with GW is that PvP and PvE skillz are the same whereas the gameplay itself are fundamently different (not a rant just an observation!!)

If GW:EN were to readdress this into making some new Mesmer Skills completely PvE dependant would that make people start Mesmers?

For my two cents Mesmers are the most destructive and best support class out there.

Just need to know how to play them - For example my Mesmer hero uses that Elite Hex eater signet thing, plenty of domination to deal with casters and backfire to totally destroy the casters.

So I now have no problem with curses on me and spell casters are being turned into chunky bloddy frag pieces. I propose that we get Rocket Launchers in GW:EN I m missing my frags.

Mesmers are pure designed on countering other specific characters, which they can do with great strength. Cant remember how many times party's went WTF; that lvl 28 monk boss supposed to be tough to take down, WTF; that boss is just standing there getting hurt.

Just as Warriors purpose is tanking, monks are healing, mesmers are countering. Screw up enemy teams to make them ineffective.

For the umpteenth time:

Mesmers are EXTREMELY powerful in PvE. People who equate power in PvE with the ability to deal damage just want variants of eles, warrios, necros and rangers.

I never fully understood how powerful Mesmers are until I made one and played it in PvE...

1) First off, I NEVER had an easier time with those overpower bosses in Factions and Nightfall, till I played Mesmer. It's amazing the multitude of ways you can render a single foe useless. When my guild first conquered Altrumm Ruins (we used to hold the best records eons ago), we did it with one primary component, a domination mesmer. His job was to kill enemy bosses and no one did it better.

2) The reason Mesmers are not highly popular in highly farmed areas is because they are (by nature) a singular focus profession. Similar to warriors. You will notice that outside of tanking, warriors have no usage in high level PvE areas despite the bazillion attack skills in their arsenal. Most optimzations of PvE farming are about killing as many foes as possible in as short a time as possible. Think about all the common PvE builds: Spirit Bond tank + Smiter, MM + B/P barragers, SF eles, ... etc. All these builds are about mowing down as many bad guys as possible as quickly as possible.

Mesmers CAN'T compete in that market, and if they could, they would be the most overpowered class in the game. The problem is not the lack of powerful skills, Mesmers have tons of those (Psychic Distraction? Migraine?) but the lack of AoE damage. that's the bottom line in PvE farming. Minions, SS, FoC, Searing Flames, Meteor Shower, Barrage, all those have one thing in common: Massive AoE damage.

So, unless you want Mesmers to be turned into Eles (with straight damae AoE) or Necros (with hexes that do AoE damage) there's really no where for the mesmer profession to be improved. Adding a "charm person" skill is really not useful. How will that help a Tombs group mow down that horde of grasps? It won't, the pug in tombs won't pick you up.

It's the bottom line in this game, unfortunately. For every ascetic who complains about the game not allowing him to play his beloved P/N Barbs + They're on Fire build, there exists 1,000 games who want to finish the PvE area in as fast a time as possible to go back in and farm it some more. So, the lack of love is really from the player base. This IS what the overwhleming majority of the player base want, and for ANet to fix it, would be to make Mesmers turn into Eles or necros.

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