Rethinking the MMO

LordBanon

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2005

This is an excellent article from Gamasutra that explains many of the reasons why the announcement of a high/infinite level cap for GW2 is disappointing many current GW fans:

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20...orens_01.shtml

To quote some salient observations:

Quote:
Problem #3: Advancement-holics Anonymous

...

This misplaced focus [on problems other than the central issue of boring gameplay mechanics] reflects one of the problems of the genre: issues related to advancement comprise the bulk of the discussion because the game’s appeal comes almost entirely from character building. In fact, designers treat it as the game’s ultimate goal. Everything else—quests, game mechanics, social interactions—are an often undesirable means to a desirable end; namely, acquiring levels and loot. Players have learned that the best rewards in a PEG always come from burning through the game as quickly as possible. Nothing in the game is worth experiencing for its own sake; if it doesn’t give experience or loot, it’s a waste of time in players’ minds. Designers, unfortunately, make little effort to discourage the player from thinking otherwise, as they put very little content into the game that is worth experiencing for its own sake. In other words, they encourage players to play this way. This model is the exact opposite of single-player games, where character advancement (skills, items, levels, etc.), though still a reward, is primarily a one of several tools the player uses in his primary task: advancing through game content.
Quote:
Problem #4: Making Players Feel Ordinary

...

The second problem (particularly prevalent in games with strict level-based advancement) is that as a player’s controlled entity grows more powerful, the challenges he faces grow more difficult, making the advancement seem worthless.

For example, the player can typically dispatch enemies at the start of the game with ease. However, as the game progresses, the relative strength of an appropriate enemy increases, making analogous battles lengthier and more difficult, despite the fact that the character is now many times more powerful than before. This design makes players feel as if they are running in place (hence, the “hamster wheel” analogy), or even getting weaker as they “advance.” In many cases, game balance and the reward system make the player feel forced to group with other players, further increasing the feeling that no matter how far a character advances, it will always be weak in relation to opponents. In a game where gaining power is the primary goal of the game (problem #3), this design flaw is significant.

Even more egregious is the use of similar enemies at various stages of advancement. If a player’s character kills a deer easily at Level 4, why, after twenty levels’ worth of advancement, is it terribly difficult to kill a nearly identical deer in another location? This situation makes the game and its advancement system feel absurdly and unnaturally mathematical. Furthermore, a player can spend months trying to obtain a special item, but even when acquired, that item typically increases the character’s power by only a fraction of a percent. In this case, advancement is not only purely mathematical in terms of gameplay effect, but to add insult to injury, it is also mathematically insignificant.
There's definitely a sense that moving to the high/infinite level cap is a step backwards in this regard. (The indication that there will be a sidekick system akin to City of Heroes' makes the odds of higher level being purely cosmetic slim to none.) Here's hoping that Anet can pull off reinventing the MMO in spite of this!

TheDarkOneVK

TheDarkOneVK

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

[VK] - The Order of Vanguard Knights

N/Me

Several good points, many of them are reasons why I play Guild Wars and not one of the more traditional-style games like CoH or WoW. Guild Wars is a game you play and participate in, not just spend time on.

Also with regards to the sidekick system, that was what made me worry about the level cap. If the level cap really were something completely cosmetic, why would you need an option to have your character's strength put on par with another player's? For those who don't know how the sidekick system in CoH works, it basically allows a low level character who wants to game with a high level character to temporarily increase in strength (slightly below their "mentor") in order to keep teams balanced. So if such a system were to be implemented in GW2, why else would it be implemented if there wasn't some sort of barrier to overcome?

However at the same time, I have a hard time believing that ANET doesn't realize how unpopular a traditional "months to max out" leveling system would be in their game.

Thallandor

Thallandor

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Singapore

Seers of Serpents [SoS]

R/

The article makes for a good read, However some points in it applies and are for GW style of play and possibily GW2 while some other points are against. However if you look closely at Fargo's(gamespy) comments on that article, he did mention that it doesnt neccessary apply to every MMO genre out there, namely WoW or even GW perhaps.

However i really have no interests in debating GW2 level cap any more since LOTRO is looking really good come this Friday.

Tetris L

Tetris L

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Germany

Servants of Fortuna

Let me copy-paste this, because I'm tired of typing it yet again:

Level alone doesn't mean ANYTHING! It may be purely visual, to show off your high XP, like a title. Nobody said that you'll keep gaining attribute points, energy, health, or anything. For all we know, the GW2 level system may be exactly the same as GW1, except that they add +1 to your level every time you gain a skill point, so the XP is "visible". We don't know yet, and probably even ANet have not finally decided. So stop your premature whining.

We know one thing: Ever since ANet created GW they always emphasized that they designed GW specifically to avoid grinding. They designed it for the casual part-time gamer who wants to put only limited time into the game, and still have fun and be able to compete against players who play full-time. ANet confirmed this concept in the the recent MSNBC feature, so chances are they'll stick to it for GW2, and high level cap won't affact stats much, it is merely to allow the l33t veterans to show off their achievements.

Onarik Amrak

Onarik Amrak

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2007

Astral Revenants

P/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetris L
Let me copy-paste this, because I'm tired of typing it yet again:

Level alone doesn't mean ANYTHING! It may be purely visual, to show off your high XP, like a title. Nobody said that you'll keep gaining attribute points, energy, health, or anything. For all we know, the GW2 level system may be exactly the same as GW1, except that they add +1 to your level every time you gain a skill point, so the XP is "visible". We don't know yet, and probably even ANet have not finally decided. So stop your premature whining.

We know one thing: Ever since ANet created GW they always emphasized that they designed GW specifically to avoid grinding. They designed it for the casual part-time gamer who wants to put only limited time into the game, and still have fun and be able to compete against players who play full-time. ANet confirmed this concept in the the recent MSNBC feature, so chances are they'll stick to it for GW2, and high level cap won't affact stats much, it is merely to allow the l33t veterans to show off their achievements.
QFT! No one knows anything for sure except that there will be a high level cap. How quickly you get them? No one knows. Will it have an effect or be merely cosmetic? No one knows.

Kuldebar Valiturus

Kuldebar Valiturus

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

Garden City, Idaho

The Order of Relumination (TOoR)

R/

People seem to forget that in the same sentence it mentions the possibility of "a higher level cap" it also says, "or no level cap".

Comprehend this: that basically means that levels will have little or nothing to do with character strengths. It will probably be used as a sign of character age very similar to bonafide birthday present recipients.

Levels could even be referred to as "Seasons", who knows, it's much too early.

Level gaps that impact what players can accomplish serve to segregate the game and playerbase just like instancing and Campaign spread does in the current Guild Wars.

I find it very unlikely that ANet will introduce a character level system that will promote exactly what they are seeking to avoid in GW2.