04 Apr 2007 at 15:41 - 6
Quote:
Don't even start with Mesmers. I roll a fastcast fire mesmer from time to time and it's a perfectly viable way to play. Secondary professions are there for a reason.
Yep. But this isn't one of them.
You can play like that, of course.
The problem with classes is that players want tank/nuker/healer. Everything else is beyond comprehension.
There is no reason for mesmer to pose as nuker. Of course there's lots of whining about mesmers being useless in PvE since eles nuke better.
But there's plenty of really powerful PvE builds - unfortunately they require somewhat higher skill level to play than, say, MM. There are some mesmer builds which can obliterate bosses solo in a matter of seconds. Not to mention the damage they deal in NF and Factions, where mobs are mostly diverse.
But sure, assassin healers, mesmer nukers, warrior MM. All those work.
04 Apr 2007 at 15:46 - 7
Builds like the one you mentioned generally don't bother me much, because I like to see people coming up with fresh ideas (even if they are a bit weird sometimes). Granted they can be a pain to have in a party sometimes if they're playing something that simply doesn't work (like a support healing war, or a stance tank mesmer??).
But I get where you're coming from with the whole secondary superceding the primary thing. Logically, it doesn't make sense to basically play a poorer version of something that already exists. Sure I could roll a barrage necro, and I'm sure I would kill stuff in PvE and be just fine. However, if I'm going to make a point of playing nothing but barrage on my necro, there's really no reason that I should be playing that necro instead of a ranger (aside from some weird role-playing reasons).
04 Apr 2007 at 15:48 - 8
Because people are actually enjoying this game, and don't want to use the same cookie-cutter builds everyone is using that frequents this forum.
You just stick with your MM-necro Zinger, then all will be fine 
04 Apr 2007 at 16:01 - 9
It's hard to say in one breath that it's okay for N/Mo HB to be viable because it gets to abuse its primary attribute in PvP, but it's not okay for a Me/E to output FC Fire damage simply because he isn't "designed to do that." A N/Mo was not designed to be a healer, but it got the benefit of a broken mechanic. Mesmers got Fast Casting - a useful mechanic, but not to the extent of (and not as abusable as) SR.
The thing of it is that PvE players are even more narrow-minded than PvP players when it comes to FoTM and the "Meta." Very few PvE characters are willing to try new things (or allow new things into their party). This discourages diversity in parties and encourages creativity, ie: Assassins and Mesmers trying to think outside their primary class.
A team of 8 mesmers can clear just about any content in the Guild Wars world . Even with primarily Mesmer bars. (not certain on DoA, I'm guessing not, but I'd love someone to prove me wrong) Does this mean Mesmers should abuse and overuse secondary classes? No.
But attitudes like yours are the reason that Mesmers are ignored altogether outside of PvP, in conjunction with the notion that Warriors, Eles, Monks, and the occasional Necro are the only classes that matter. When people demand only a certain class, other classes try to replicate that functionality.
And sometimes it's fun to try something different.
04 Apr 2007 at 16:03 - 10
/agree
why not create an elementalist if you like nuking so much?
but at the same time I cannot say that this should be the case all the time. I wanted to make a pvp sin and could not get the the pvp playability level without the crit-barrage build. And I cant farm FOW solo without my w/rit with 12 in restoration. So in some rare cases there are exeptions. And I will not look down on the sword sin if they pull their weight and do some damage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antheus
The problem with classes is that players want tank/nuker/healer. Everything else is beyond comprehension..
I agree that this is a problem... hoping that GW2 solves this problem instead of making it worse. perhapse classes like the assasin could have more interaction with the pve world like lockpicking chests and doors for the rest of the group. (like in some GVG matches)
04 Apr 2007 at 16:10 - 11
I've seen many people talking about fast cast mesmer nuker but a nuker with a bow is what I've never seen. I was helping out my guildie as his group kept failing. There was a Me/R so I thought it must be that mesmer skills do not give him enough interrupt skills that he needs few more interrupts from Ranger. it turned out no interrupt whatsoever. he was just standing there and shoots arrow. I guess he must have hated wands and staves.
I don't play Mesmer so maybe I don't know what a Me/R is capable of. Maybe someone can enlighten me.
04 Apr 2007 at 16:15 - 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viet Spirit
I've seen many people talking about fast cast mesmer nuker but a nuker with a bow is what I've never seen. I was helping out my guildie as his group kept failing. There was a Me/R so I thought it must be that mesmer skills do not give him enough interrupt skills that he needs few more interrupts from Ranger. it turned out no interrupt whatsoever. he was just standing there and shoots arrow. I guess he must have hated wands and staves.
I don't play Mesmer so maybe I don't know what a Me/R is capable of. Maybe someone can enlighten me.
The only time I ever take Me/R is to trap. Or if I want to play with a pet. In both instances, they're only as gimmicks - I don't even bother with bows.
The point of the Me/E thing, in my own experience anyway, is that it's not as though I play nothing but Me/E. In truth, I run more Domination than anything. But on occasion, it's fun to play differently.
And not only that, but if I'm with a party (say for FoW) that needs a nuker and can't find one acceptable, I'll switch over to fire and we go. And that's that. We still rock face, and everything is fine and dandy. Or perhaps I want to take Cynn, Zhed, and Sousuke out for a high time on the Vabbian highlands. I'll swtich up to some fire and watch the fun ensue.
It's not as though I pretend to be as good as an ele, but I'll do in a pinch, and I don't think that's a "wrong" way to play.
04 Apr 2007 at 18:46 - 13
As a Minion Bomber, I typically go half/half. The three Spawning Power Enchants, a Rit-rez, and four Death Magic spells. In Factions, this was even worse, with two Rit spells, and the rest as Necro spells. Not a few people doubted my sanity when they saw that most of my skill bar was focused in my secondary. But hey, it worked out. :-p
04 Apr 2007 at 19:33 - 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by clawofcrimson
/agree
why not create an elementalist if you like nuking so much?
but at the same time I cannot say that this should be the case all the time. I wanted to make a pvp sin and could not get the the pvp playability level without the crit-barrage build. And I cant farm FOW solo without my w/rit with 12 in restoration. So in some rare cases there are exeptions. And I will not look down on the sword sin if they pull their weight and do some damage.
I agree that this is a problem... hoping that GW2 solves this problem instead of making it worse. perhapse classes like the assasin could have more interaction with the pve world like lockpicking chests and doors for the rest of the group. (like in some GVG matches)
That idea could be a reasonable part of GW2, ANet already said they are introducing more aspects into the game such as jumping and swimming, why not lockpicking on sins, bashing through obstacles on warriors, solving mystic puzzles on mesmers, or even lighting candles on an ele? 
04 Apr 2007 at 20:34 - 15
the only reason i could think of making a mesmer in PvE is some of the late game farming builds they have. and to get there you need a build. you cant use your primary for damage because.... your a mesmer, so you use ele damage. Secondarys are there for a reason. N/Mo's are better healers in PvE than monks, just because of their primary attribute.
04 Apr 2007 at 23:56 - 16
Because healing burst is the ultimate self heal with a chance to heal other nearby allies without the risk of healing enemies!
11 Apr 2007 at 01:25 - 17
I play fc nuker all the time, when there is not really a need for a "mesmer". thats how i find my place in pve. but as for using you secondary as a crutch no. A secondary is more of a helping hand. Take boa sins for instanace. a sin has no really good ias's, so they use boa, a warrior ias but a good one. but ya, things like whammos with 3-8 :O monk skills is bad.
11 Apr 2007 at 17:11 - 18
A/Mo - with healing elites -> only annouces this because no one would take an Assassin in a PUG. To state that they will stay back and help heal, may be the only alternative the assassin has to get into a group.
D/Mo - I've went mostly monk with some dervish skills before, because in a group with 1 ele, 2 w/mo, 1 ranger, 1 mm and me, and no monks in the town, I had to heal (I don't trust nor want to see a nuker healing people, a MM healing people, and for goodness sakes, no Warrior will ever be permitted to act as a healer). Why not take a henchie or hero? No need to need a true healer in the mission, just someone to heal once in a while. I had hex removal, condition removal, reversal of fortune, orison of healing, and rebirth from my monk side.
I do agree, that unless bizzar circumstances happen (or you just want to experiment - solo/henchies), you should use mostly, if not entirely your primary profession's skills.
16 Apr 2007 at 13:43 - 19
Hmmm, I typically use only my primary profession, although I tend to change my 2nd profession quite often in order to pick up 1 or 2 skills that may be useful in the area I'm playing. My philosophy is to use your 2nd job strictly in order to enhance your primary.
For example: Change your Warrior to /Necro in order to pick up Plague Touch.
Change to /Monk in order to use mending. (I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Don't flame me!)
I started my warrior as a Warrior/Ranger. I've never used a bow on her except for pulling purposes and even then I've never put pts into Markmanship. I did however have a lot of fun with my pet stalker, Fluffy. I even developed a few nice pet builds with her, but as I've progressed into the desert and the harder areas of the game, I've left Fluffy behind and concentrated more on my warrior skills.
Currently, I tend to stay a /Necro just for Plague Touch. Whenever I go into the FOW, I always change to /Monk in order to bring Remove Hex and a hard Rez. I've found that on most trips our Monk is too busy healing folks to remove SS from me, so I'll do it myself.
There is currently a popular PvP build called Shocking Axe, which uses the Ele skill, Shock along with a nice Axe build. I think this is the perfect use of your 2nd profession, to enhance your primary attributes.
While we're on the subject, I have a question for the community. What are your thoughts on the following? I recently pugged the Elona Reach desert mission. I joined a team and we had no monks. I asked if I should bring my hero Monk and one of the Elementalists on the team spoke up and said "No, I'm a monk". "Huh?", I replied. "Uh, no you're an Elementalist". He pinged his E/Mo bar and it was pure healing spells. I asked if he would change to an Ele build and we'd pick up a monk. I ended up getting flamed by the entire team. They all told me to just shut up and that an Elementalist was just as good a monk as a real monk. The Ele said that the points in Energy Storage made up for the Divine Favor lack.
So, we started the mission and I must say that the team was a very good team. We completed the mission and bonus and our Ele actually did a better job healing us than I expected.
So, was I totally off base saying he shouldn't be a healer, or was he running a crappy build and got lucky.
16 Apr 2007 at 14:18 - 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
They are pushing their ill-loved character through PvE...so they can be more ill-loved?
They are pushing their, in your opinion, ill-loved character through PvE because...*gasp*....they enjoy playing them. This may be a great revelation but some people enjoy playing as Mesmer despite the general feeling that they are useless. I accept that my Mesmer will often find it hard to get into a group and often go with Heroes anyway as they are, on the whole, less stupid than humans, however the main reason I push my mesmer through the game is because I enjoy playing as that character.
On the whole I am of the belief that the secondary profession is there to complement the primary, and should be used wisely, still making use of the character's primary function, however, on the odd occaision the secondary profession really comes into play. I am thinking of A/E Solo farming builds, W/Rt Underworld farming builds and the like. A profession combination which has come up before is a Me/E "Fast Cast Ele". I fail to see the problem here. With dual attunements a Mesmer could pump out, say, air skills faster than a normal ele and not have any major energy concerns. When I use Dual Attunements as Ele primary I know I could live off very little energy, and the beauty of Elemental Attunement is that even though it's Energy Storage, it lasts a reasonable length of time.
If the build works, then why not? Why should Me/Es be shunned for using a selection of skills they deem suitable for a build which works just because someone doesn't like other people using lots of secondary skills? Ironically, an Me/E dual attunement air spiker would probably have better energy management than most other eles out there who seem to not have heard of the words "attunement" or "glyph". The number of Ele PRIMARIES who spam "My energy is 2 of 101" in missions make me want to bang my head off the desk.
17 Apr 2007 at 02:34 - 21
After reviewing the thread and the comments posted, its become apparant to me that nothing but flaming is going to come out of this thread.
Zinger has made a good point about Secondary Professions, but must keep in mind that alot of people play for fun, or just make odd combos, not all of us can be super 'leet'. Plus, rerolling PvE characters is alot harder and takes much more work than to reroll a PvP.
In closing, we all know what a secondary profession is in PvE. 
/closed
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