Melee Comparison: Warriors vs. Assassins vs. Dervishs.
2 pages • Page 2
P
to be fair though, most dervs are awful players who think avatar of Balthazar is teh 1337zor skillz... not to mention just how annoying it is when ur playing a prot monk and they insist on spamming pious assault whenever i enchant them....
and sgt clarity, you ever been spiked down by a sin using temple strike or assault enchantments?
and sgt clarity, you ever been spiked down by a sin using temple strike or assault enchantments?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai-JM
Summary: Low Armored. Fast. Deadly. Not as much armor and protection as other melee classes, but much faster, more DPS, and more conditions.
Wouldn't say sins have more DPS. In fact, they have the lowest DPS of the three. What they excel in is the ability to solo spike something in small packets. Warriors and dervishes can apply just as many conditions, but it is generally applied in a longer time period and results in much more efficient pressure.
Wouldn't say sins have more DPS. In fact, they have the lowest DPS of the three. What they excel in is the ability to solo spike something in small packets. Warriors and dervishes can apply just as many conditions, but it is generally applied in a longer time period and results in much more efficient pressure.
S
Sumarai's summary is a summary of "ninja/assassin" cliches, nothing about the actual game.
The inability or inefficiency to change targets quickly while spamming attack skills, or whatever it is (Moebius>DB Spam, Unsus > Wild > Death another possibility) means less versatility, means ease to counter, resulting in overall decreased pressure. Healing seed is a bad example, but it, SoR, SoD, SoA, Guardian, Spirit Bond, and other nifty skills make attacking one target constantly nothing short of stupid.
Dervishes can spike better than you give credit for. In my eyes, they spike better than assassins can pressure... BY FAR. Whereas an assassin's spike can give monks a -limited- amount of pressure by forcing hex removal or RoFs or spirit bonds or something, a Dervish can increase effeciency of spikes by not only pressuring the monks hard, overextending in the case of Melandru, especially D/A (grasping earth is nice too), and spike a hell lot more often. Just like VS and MS or whatever it is you use recharge and, bam, a small spike which happens to increase DPS as well, whereas a sin using its attack skills as often as it can is barely any pressure for monks without some sort of coordination or tactics... which -is- important, but not the point here since the same can be said of warriors and dervishes.
Dervishes in practice aren't as extreme, same with paragons, but they are really just doing what warriors are doing with some differences, ie. reliance on forms/less versatility in skills, and range + party buff.
Answer to temple strike... it really is just damage + daze. Handling daze on spikes is really just about the opposing team's ability to make it useful and yours to counter it. KDs and Blackouts (well, at one point anyway) tend to do this job a lot better though, and BHA are more for splits and pressure than anything.. in my opinion. The idea of dazing a spike target in a large group battle... well, it does not often depend on the spiked target to save itself save positioning and screaming SPIKE ON TWO before the spike actually happens, and having temple strike seriously gimps the spike ability... ie. easier to save the spike anyway. So there, no more mentions of the skill, okay?
ALSO. WARRIORS DO NOT TAKE EONS TO BUILD UP ADRENALINE LOL CLEAVE DISMEMBER GOGOGOGO.
Seriously, you're saying that evis charges slower than SP? Even BB is okay, especially since I use EC with it (Tiger Stance/Flail yar), but what exactly are you people basing your assumptions on? The truth is that it's mostly likely PvE where the results are very different. Monsters with level more than 20 have more armor than usual, meaning that the base damage of a warrior (and even dervish) becomes less effective when paired with the armor ignoring damage of a sin spike.
The inability or inefficiency to change targets quickly while spamming attack skills, or whatever it is (Moebius>DB Spam, Unsus > Wild > Death another possibility) means less versatility, means ease to counter, resulting in overall decreased pressure. Healing seed is a bad example, but it, SoR, SoD, SoA, Guardian, Spirit Bond, and other nifty skills make attacking one target constantly nothing short of stupid.
Dervishes can spike better than you give credit for. In my eyes, they spike better than assassins can pressure... BY FAR. Whereas an assassin's spike can give monks a -limited- amount of pressure by forcing hex removal or RoFs or spirit bonds or something, a Dervish can increase effeciency of spikes by not only pressuring the monks hard, overextending in the case of Melandru, especially D/A (grasping earth is nice too), and spike a hell lot more often. Just like VS and MS or whatever it is you use recharge and, bam, a small spike which happens to increase DPS as well, whereas a sin using its attack skills as often as it can is barely any pressure for monks without some sort of coordination or tactics... which -is- important, but not the point here since the same can be said of warriors and dervishes.
Dervishes in practice aren't as extreme, same with paragons, but they are really just doing what warriors are doing with some differences, ie. reliance on forms/less versatility in skills, and range + party buff.
Answer to temple strike... it really is just damage + daze. Handling daze on spikes is really just about the opposing team's ability to make it useful and yours to counter it. KDs and Blackouts (well, at one point anyway) tend to do this job a lot better though, and BHA are more for splits and pressure than anything.. in my opinion. The idea of dazing a spike target in a large group battle... well, it does not often depend on the spiked target to save itself save positioning and screaming SPIKE ON TWO before the spike actually happens, and having temple strike seriously gimps the spike ability... ie. easier to save the spike anyway. So there, no more mentions of the skill, okay?
ALSO. WARRIORS DO NOT TAKE EONS TO BUILD UP ADRENALINE LOL CLEAVE DISMEMBER GOGOGOGO.
Seriously, you're saying that evis charges slower than SP? Even BB is okay, especially since I use EC with it (Tiger Stance/Flail yar), but what exactly are you people basing your assumptions on? The truth is that it's mostly likely PvE where the results are very different. Monsters with level more than 20 have more armor than usual, meaning that the base damage of a warrior (and even dervish) becomes less effective when paired with the armor ignoring damage of a sin spike.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
I dont think im tat good at warrior, but i know im good at dervish. It would really be interesting to me to see what a really good warrior can do compared to my dervish. I assume its about equal.
Simply put you really cant compare, Any warrior thats going to do a 1 on 1 fight will bring Riposte/Deadly Riposte and some other block stances, and any dervish will prolly bring an avatar or a Mystic regen build. That fight could last for hours, and it would come down to who gives up first. I have both a Warrior and a Dervish and I can think of several builds I could use 1 on 1 agianst another melee class
1 on 1 fights dont belong in Guild Wars, and cant be used to determine which is better cause no one will use a 1 on 1 fight build in any other situation. (except AB where you see Riposte wars by the handful, and everyone wants to 1v1)
There have been many posts before and the general concensus is the warriors are the most versatile class out of the mellee classes
All I know is that Eviscerate + Executioners is a SCARY thing to be hit with.
1 on 1 fights dont belong in Guild Wars, and cant be used to determine which is better cause no one will use a 1 on 1 fight build in any other situation. (except AB where you see Riposte wars by the handful, and everyone wants to 1v1)
There have been many posts before and the general concensus is the warriors are the most versatile class out of the mellee classes
All I know is that Eviscerate + Executioners is a SCARY thing to be hit with.
B
To add my 2 cents...
Something that appears to have been forgotten is the 'fun' element. After all this is a game which most of us want to enjoy.
I have both a Warrior and an Assassin, and both of them have 3 protector titles (I only do PvE) and to compare the experiences is interesting.
With the Warrior I spend most of my time trying to protect the backline by body-blocking and trying to stop the backline from coming under a lot of melee damage. There is no doubting that this is an effective strategy for PvE since it probably took less time to finish the 3 campaigns on my warrior than it did my 'sin.
With the 'sin I float around the fringes and take out 'key' targets. Usually monks/necro's/ele's. The playing style with the 'sin seems a lot more fun to me. With the Warrior it was always a case of rush to engage the closest targets and try to keep the backline safe dropping in skills as appropriate. With the 'sin it was hold 'ctrl' and look around for which targets would be best off killing first.
However, when comparing the /deaths of them both the results are fairly clear... the 'sin has over 1,500 deaths, wheras the warrior is approaching 250, but as far as the 'fun' element goes I find it a lot more enjoyable to lurk on the fringes taking down key targets with the 'sin than soaking up the damage on the warrior.
I don't profess to be the greatest warrior or 'sin in the game, but I have played both classess through 3 campaigns for 3 protector titles so I like to think I know what I'm about in PvE with these chars.
Dervish I just cannot get the hang of at all. I'm 'Dervishly challenged' I think. I think that each of the 3 classess can be played in their own way and are useful for different things. It comes down to personal preference I think about what you prefer, for me, I love the 'sins ability to shadow step in and wreak havoc on the backline over the Warrior's 'slow steady' approach. Both systems seem to work fine in PvE it's just that one is more fun than the other to me.
BdP
Something that appears to have been forgotten is the 'fun' element. After all this is a game which most of us want to enjoy.
I have both a Warrior and an Assassin, and both of them have 3 protector titles (I only do PvE) and to compare the experiences is interesting.
With the Warrior I spend most of my time trying to protect the backline by body-blocking and trying to stop the backline from coming under a lot of melee damage. There is no doubting that this is an effective strategy for PvE since it probably took less time to finish the 3 campaigns on my warrior than it did my 'sin.
With the 'sin I float around the fringes and take out 'key' targets. Usually monks/necro's/ele's. The playing style with the 'sin seems a lot more fun to me. With the Warrior it was always a case of rush to engage the closest targets and try to keep the backline safe dropping in skills as appropriate. With the 'sin it was hold 'ctrl' and look around for which targets would be best off killing first.
However, when comparing the /deaths of them both the results are fairly clear... the 'sin has over 1,500 deaths, wheras the warrior is approaching 250, but as far as the 'fun' element goes I find it a lot more enjoyable to lurk on the fringes taking down key targets with the 'sin than soaking up the damage on the warrior.
I don't profess to be the greatest warrior or 'sin in the game, but I have played both classess through 3 campaigns for 3 protector titles so I like to think I know what I'm about in PvE with these chars.
Dervish I just cannot get the hang of at all. I'm 'Dervishly challenged' I think. I think that each of the 3 classess can be played in their own way and are useful for different things. It comes down to personal preference I think about what you prefer, for me, I love the 'sins ability to shadow step in and wreak havoc on the backline over the Warrior's 'slow steady' approach. Both systems seem to work fine in PvE it's just that one is more fun than the other to me.
BdP
A Dervish can do more pure damage than a Warrior anyday, there's nothing to argue about that really.
HOWEVER,
Damage is really the only thing they can do. They have very few utility skills and cannot knockdown or disrupt without limiting their secondary profession. This makes them amazing in PvE where there is no need to disrupt mobs while spiking, but in PvP they cannot kill a decent monk alone because they lack disruption, while warriors have knockdowns, shock, Disrupting Chop, etc.
Warriors have great innate utility that makes them deal out higher pressure in Pvp. They can knockdown fleeing foes with Bull's Strike. Hammer spikes can keep the foe on their foot unable to do anything while dealing heavy damage. And they can use their secondary for Shock, Rending Touch, Shadowsteps, etc.
Assassins can easily top a Dervish in damage for PvE, though. Moebius -> DB provides amazing, sustainable damage and most PvE mobs won't distract your Moebius Strike or anything so you're free to plough through. Shadow Prison spikes do more damage in 4 seconds than any other build, and in PvE Assassin's Promise allows the chain to be used repeatedly as stuff will nearly always die in PvE due to lack of protection.
In PvP Assassin spikes hit hard, but a single disrupt on their chain leaves them hacking away futily while waiting for recharges.
So really, IMHO
PvE:
Assassin > Dervish > Warrior
PvP:
Warrior > Dervish = Assassin
HOWEVER,
Damage is really the only thing they can do. They have very few utility skills and cannot knockdown or disrupt without limiting their secondary profession. This makes them amazing in PvE where there is no need to disrupt mobs while spiking, but in PvP they cannot kill a decent monk alone because they lack disruption, while warriors have knockdowns, shock, Disrupting Chop, etc.
Warriors have great innate utility that makes them deal out higher pressure in Pvp. They can knockdown fleeing foes with Bull's Strike. Hammer spikes can keep the foe on their foot unable to do anything while dealing heavy damage. And they can use their secondary for Shock, Rending Touch, Shadowsteps, etc.
Assassins can easily top a Dervish in damage for PvE, though. Moebius -> DB provides amazing, sustainable damage and most PvE mobs won't distract your Moebius Strike or anything so you're free to plough through. Shadow Prison spikes do more damage in 4 seconds than any other build, and in PvE Assassin's Promise allows the chain to be used repeatedly as stuff will nearly always die in PvE due to lack of protection.
In PvP Assassin spikes hit hard, but a single disrupt on their chain leaves them hacking away futily while waiting for recharges.
So really, IMHO
PvE:
Assassin > Dervish > Warrior
PvP:
Warrior > Dervish = Assassin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marverick
A Dervish can do more pure damage than a Warrior anyday, there's nothing to argue about that really.
HOWEVER,
Damage is really the only thing they can do. They have very few utility skills and cannot knockdown or disrupt without limiting their secondary profession. This makes them amazing in PvE where there is no need to disrupt mobs while spiking, but in PvP they cannot kill a decent monk alone because they lack disruption, while warriors have knockdowns, shock, Disrupting Chop, etc.
Warriors have great innate utility that makes them deal out higher pressure in Pvp. They can knockdown fleeing foes with Bull's Strike. Hammer spikes can keep the foe on their foot unable to do anything while dealing heavy damage. And they can use their secondary for Shock, Rending Touch, Shadowsteps, etc.
Assassins can easily top a Dervish in damage for PvE, though. Moebius -> DB provides amazing, sustainable damage and most PvE mobs won't distract your Moebius Strike or anything so you're free to plough through. Shadow Prison spikes do more damage in 4 seconds than any other build, and in PvE Assassin's Promise allows the chain to be used repeatedly as stuff will nearly always die in PvE due to lack of protection.
In PvP Assassin spikes hit hard, but a single disrupt on their chain leaves them hacking away futily while waiting for recharges.
So really, IMHO
PvE:
Assassin > Dervish > Warrior
PvP:
Warrior > Dervish = Assassin
so you're saying an assassin can last in pve, hold aggro in pve, lead in pve, and keep its damage dealing, energy contained, pure overall dps higher than a warrior??
thats just silly.
HOWEVER,
Damage is really the only thing they can do. They have very few utility skills and cannot knockdown or disrupt without limiting their secondary profession. This makes them amazing in PvE where there is no need to disrupt mobs while spiking, but in PvP they cannot kill a decent monk alone because they lack disruption, while warriors have knockdowns, shock, Disrupting Chop, etc.
Warriors have great innate utility that makes them deal out higher pressure in Pvp. They can knockdown fleeing foes with Bull's Strike. Hammer spikes can keep the foe on their foot unable to do anything while dealing heavy damage. And they can use their secondary for Shock, Rending Touch, Shadowsteps, etc.
Assassins can easily top a Dervish in damage for PvE, though. Moebius -> DB provides amazing, sustainable damage and most PvE mobs won't distract your Moebius Strike or anything so you're free to plough through. Shadow Prison spikes do more damage in 4 seconds than any other build, and in PvE Assassin's Promise allows the chain to be used repeatedly as stuff will nearly always die in PvE due to lack of protection.
In PvP Assassin spikes hit hard, but a single disrupt on their chain leaves them hacking away futily while waiting for recharges.
So really, IMHO
PvE:
Assassin > Dervish > Warrior
PvP:
Warrior > Dervish = Assassin
so you're saying an assassin can last in pve, hold aggro in pve, lead in pve, and keep its damage dealing, energy contained, pure overall dps higher than a warrior??
thats just silly.
As far as PvP [HA] goes, when doing midline casting and I see one of those three on me, my reactions:
Assassin: "RC me in 2 seconds and I'm fine." Not really a big problem. Usually don't kite if I know my monks.
Dervish: "Prot spirit me, them hurts." A little concerned, hoping my monks are on the ball. Kite some until they lose interest.
Warrior: "Ugh. This will probably suck. Prot plx." Kite until he goes away.
Assassin: "RC me in 2 seconds and I'm fine." Not really a big problem. Usually don't kite if I know my monks.
Dervish: "Prot spirit me, them hurts." A little concerned, hoping my monks are on the ball. Kite some until they lose interest.
Warrior: "Ugh. This will probably suck. Prot plx." Kite until he goes away.
L
S