Does Anet listen to PVE or PVP players more?

Because the all 3 chapters of the pve game can be completed with masters on all missions and all quests completed in 50 hours. What do you do with your next 2000 hours of play time? Exactly, you farm shinys.

And for the record, I consider myself a serious pver and pvper. I am not looking down on pvers, just pointing out the reality -- getting new armor, a sense of satisfaction in finding/doing something cool, and the social aspect of gaming is what drives pve -- rarely, if ever, does balance matter to any of that.

If there is an official A.Net board named "The Supreme Board of Regents Ensuring Balanced PvE Play (Lol)" and they made a rule saying that "If a team of 3-4 players with an MM can finish a whole mission built for 8 people, they will be summoned and tried for broken MM skill abuse and will be e-bitchslapped if found guilty", then MM is broken.





Based on my post above, let's say PvE is Sparta.



There are no broken skills in Sparta.

I guess I have a question on how what needs balancing is determined; Do the devs base their skill balances by what is posted in the different forums or do they poll the people in game somehow? If it is based on forums, how many players actually read the forums, let alone post in them? I didn't even know about these forums for almost a year of playing, until I asked what I could cap in a certain area. One reply I got was "gw.gamewikis.com/wiki/Main_Page." Now I see the changes made to the game, where before I never really noticed them. The average player probably never notices some of the changes, and if they do, they adapt.

I guess, if I had never learned of the forums, I would have adapted and had never been called a "whiner."

to reiterate on my last post the way it should be done is very simple.

If you want to know what to nerf ask the PvE'rs

If you want to know what to buff ask the PvP'rs

that would really solve it.

It's pretty simple. They listen to everybody, and the most valid (or in some cases, easily fixed) complaints are addressed. I always thought it was stupid that spirits and minions give energy on Soul Reaping, since they have no Souls to Reap. However, it was an easy fix and the main problem (PvP spirit spamming) is solved.

This is one of those topics where I have the feeling its better to close the thread asap before it gets ugly....

no more pvp vs pve please....

Anet listens to both pve and pvp but they can't sit here all day scanning the forums for every single complaint people have. They actually have a job to do like getting GW:EN out on time and gettng GW2 ready for us to play

First off Renegade, as I said earlier in this post it wouldn't give me the poll option. Looked all over and could not find it.

As for closing the thread, not real sure why you would want to close it. People are being "fairly" civil. But I have to say guys your dragging content from the SR poll thread to this one, and that was not the intent for this thread. Please stay on topic and try not to let the recent controvery cloud your judgement when responding.


Thanx.

Any good player can complete any Tyrian mission with 4 persons, I know. I did THK when I was bored.

As a few people have already said...

Skill balancing focuses mostly on PvP, because it's neccesary to keep the PvP part of the game exciting, varied, and keep PvPers on their toes, which rewards the more creative players (which is why I get annoyed when people whine about skill nerfs - if one build really means that much to you, it's probably because its the only thing you know how to do - get creative! Come up with something else! Test, for God's sake!). Skill balancing in PvE, however, is only neccesary to the extent that people aren't finding gaping loopholes in the skills (often in combinations of skills which have unintended effects). Otherwise, it's not much of an issue.

On the other hand, most of the content focus is on PvE, because PvE is grounded in the content (durrr). There's just not a whole lot of PvP 'content' that can, or needs to be, added. The only things I can really think of is new maps for PvP, whereas, 'content' for PvE includes new areas, quests, missions, weapons and other drops, and more.

As for events, there seems to be a nice balance of PvP tournaments and PvE-type weekends (like extra xp weekends or drop weekends), and holiday events cater to both PvP and PvE.

this post should be the end of this thread.

Did you get that backwards? Seems to me, it's backwards. Seems like most of the time it's PvPers who find gaping loopholes in skills, often in combinations, they own for awhile, people complain and the class/profession/skill gets nerfed.

As a result of that PvEers are treated to all kinds of exciting new changes, seemingly for no reason, that keeps them on their toes. The more creative players have no problem getting the treasure still.

It's been ugly for 3 pages if you're a PvE player.

your average pvp player knows jack shit too, bad move

but do you want a game "balanced" by the majority? with monks that have heal party as Star Shrine, 1-hit-KO eles and minions that practically finish the mission for you while you afk? a game where everyone has inventories full of ectos and gold, and pvp that is governed entirely by /roll?

the devs do listen, but at the end of the day they do what they think is best for the game

The title of the thread ain't do you want pve or pvp to dictate balance but how is balance percieved to be accomplished by pvp or pve. Or do you want a majority to dictate what balance should be. Since if that would be the case, all anet had to do was post every change up on hteir own website with a poll.

EDIT: why would you care if everybody would have an inventory full of ecto or not, i don't care what everybody else has, i care that i'm having fun in the game and honestly i don't give a rats behind about how much money, items, etc i have. I just outfit my chars with the things i find myself... and if they don't find anything they don't get jack.

If the result is pvp then the devs need to consider if that is actually the case and if it is not the case then look at why people consider these changes more pvp oriented and make adjustments where needed to make these perceptions more in line with their objectives.

If the result is pve, then the devs need to consider if that is actually the case and if it is not the case then look at why people consider these changes more pve oriented and make adjustments where needed to make these perceptions more in line with their objectives.

PS: seeing that the original intention of the OP was to have a poll but he couldn't find it, why hasn't one of our friendly neighbourhood mods not yet added one? in stead of posting in here in a negative manner (ergo threatening to close a post...)

No, my point was that it's ONLY in cases when PvE players find a way to use the skills in a way where there is a serious loophole that it will be changed because of PvE. I.E., Spirit bonding, 55ing, etc. Obviously, that kind of thing also causes a nerf in PvP. But 95% of skill changes are not so much because of that sort of issue, but rather something being moderately overpowered or underpowered, and just about all of those are a result of an issue in PvP. It doesn't matter so much for PvE, though, since it's not as evident in the PvE enviroment which skills are 'too' powerful, or 'too' weak, since every class is perfectly capable of getting through the PvE content as well as any other.

It is simple they listen to the people who complain hardest for longest and as there is a lot of content to keep PvErs happy and very little to complain about we don't shout until something gets changed as change scares people.

PvPrs get a lot to moan about, we you get owned by a team with heroes due to imbalance it's going to annoy you and your going to complain and if Anet thinks that the complaints are valid they will change something.

conclusion: PvPrs moan the loudest, and are therefore grab the most attention. Stuff like events are just cool and areanet staff most likely also enjoy them so the get done.

When it comes to skill balance I think Anet watches the PvP side more for an obvious reason. It's linked to competitions and real life money prizes. So there is a responsability there.

Of course, when you change skills they affect PvE aswell and for some reason, that is unclear to me, the devs don't seem to grasp the PvE game as much when we talk about the effects of skill changes.

Where they spend a lot of time putting together content for PvE (at which they do a great job mind you) it seems that understanding how RPG'ers play PvE is more difficult to understand. Still, it would seem to me that when you change a primary attribute it can only have a big effect and so it still baffles me how they've come to the decision to change it to this point.

Even in a fantasy game there should be some basic logic. If you think about the term 'soul reaping' the better question is what is a living soul? It is infinately more logical that SR works whenever a living soul comes free to be siphoned for energy. It then is not so unlogical to say that undead creatures and specifically minions and then spirits are rather fleeting and cannot yield as much energy or none at all.

Hence the idea of not getting energy from spirits and minions or in much lesser degree would fit an in-game logic much more than a 5 second recurrence.

Simple truth is that if you want to limit the output of energy gain by SR there should also be the realisation that necro builds in general work the way they do because of it and that the couple of builds that exploit it in the PvP setting are in no way the only builds that need a decent energy return.

MM's got help so why not the others? Make vampiric bite cost 10 and vampiric gaze 5, well of blood can be cheaper, just to name some expamples....but then there will be consequences in other combination builds...


My point is, something will happen and they do listen to PvE'ers in the end but they don't always check what we think about it first nor whether the effects go to far and maybe that's why there's a culture now that us PvE'ers feel a bit like guinea pigs and have 'learned' to scream about things.

Ooohhh!!

IMO the devs listen to both sides equally overall, but for different issues they'll listen to different parts of the community. Game balance is so much more important in PvP that they must listen to that portion of the community more on that issue, but should a change they make based on this make an aspect of PvE genuinely unplayable they will rethink it and find the middle ground. Should an aspect of PvE that is so glaringly broken that even PvE players scream about it occur they will listen to them, should it make something imbalanced in PvP they'll listen and find the middle ground.

If the devs don't give more content to PvE then their player base will drift off to other games, they listen in this case by seeing how many people take part in the events they plan, how many sales of new chapters there are. Do PvP players want new content or do they want the content they've got to work as intended ie player skillz rulez over I've been playing 1 month longer than this corpse at my feet or WTF I am actually the most skillfull PvP player going but you and your exploit just butchered me, in other words a level playing field for all on maps that work with win conditions that make sense and aren't exploitable. And its true unfortunately that when new chapters are released the PvP community has a major migraine because there are new skills, new exploits, its not like they can just say hey I'm not going to buy a chapter thats going to cause these headaches because that in itself would lead to an exploit, people who did buy the new chapter would have an unfair advantage, and these new chapters will lead to new game balancing, which means that there'd be more screams from our side of the fence ie PvE. But when all is said and done Anet will listen to both side better if we just learn to have mature debates to sort out the issues that affect our GWs.

ScorpiusX

They listen to both sides and attempt to do a balancing act.
It's been getting harder for them.

In Eyes of the North, PvE is getting 50 (Pve Only) skills in addition to skills that work in both.

With the concept design of PvE, PvP (mist/world battle), and "Structured" PvP,
This also scream more of a skill separation of the 1st two from the latter.

Jeff Spain in interviews have mention how this game is for both pve/pvp and admitted that they try there best to please both crowds and it's difficult at times.

according to kestrel's WoC show, izzy (the head skill balancer) will balance skills with regards to GvG only. however, if a skill change will completely destroy PvE as we know it, he'll try to work something else out.

IMO it doesn't look like they really listen to either.

When people complained about code=007 problems to them they kept denying things and kept asking players to run their stupid network test tool (when nothing was changed at the player or ISP end - the only thing that changed was at GW/Anet). They finally fixed it after _months_.

They ignored decent suggestions for fixing leeching in Fort Aspenwood (PvP).

They would have had a better PvP "scene" if they'd just unlocked everything for PvP (skills, mods, runes, etc- EVERYTHING) - nobody plays Counterstrike for the joy of unlocking access to the AWP (or spends hours in Quake PvE so that they can use the railgun for PvP). Sure now you can spend extra money to unlock skills for PvP, but it's still BRAINDEAD that you need to unlock stuff. I thought it's all about skill and not grind. PvP players get a sense of "reward" from winning, higher rankings, fun battle, NOT unlocking access to Rune of Superior Whatever. All that unlocking crap just gets in the way of the real PvP game.

Then the recent SR change doesn't even hurt "spirit way" teams that much, and is considered bad by 72% of the players in this poll: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10139355

Basically it has upset a lot of PvE players while not even fixing the problem the PvP players were complaining about. Doh.

Doesn't even look like they test stuff properly before releasing. Look at the _obvious_ graphics bugs, Treasure Chests problems, crashes.

Or even think about things thoroughly:

I don't see why they are so keen on preserving the Spirit Way tactic - that is the only reason I see why they changed SR the way they did - they wanted "spirit way" to stay and just be weakened. But IMO it's not something so wonderful to preserve for future generations of GW players. People grumbled about Searing Flames, but there were plenty who had fun beating "Yet Another SF" team.

They miss a big difference between PvP and PvE play.

If you nerf a PvP build because it's being "abused", a PvP player will just go "oh well" and find another build to _abuse_. That's all part of PvP - you look for imbalances ("advantages") all the time, if you find them you use/abuse them till they are fixed or nerfed. Ritualists buffed to ridiculous levels and Elementalists nerfed? No prob. delete PvP Ele and create a PvP Rit.

But PvEers are a different breed. Sure they want new content, BUT they don't want the old content to vanish/change drastically. They want to keep their stuff - greens, skills, characters, golds, minipets (and that's how Anet can make money from them and why there won't be an auction house - they want item liquidation to be inefficient - so people will just buy more storage rather than spend hours trying to sell stuff they can't bear to delete).

If you keep changing/breaking things too often/much PvE players may make a drastic change and play a different game instead.

PvP? Most will keep playing as long as you keep the servers running well, the game not too imbalanced (perfect balance was not important - everyone wanted the rocket launcher in quake 1 ) AND make sure that cheating, griefing and leeching is at a minimum.

But hey, nobody listens to me either .

There NOT going to do UAX (Universal Access Unlock). There still dealing with the fallout of doing that *once* during the next to last original GuildWars *BETA* event before it went live. They do offer the ability to buy UAX skills for each campaign in the online store.

In regards to UAX and GW2.. that I can't say.

Until recently I could say the PvEers always got the short end of the stick. PvP nerfs kept ruining PvE builds, and the only "new content" we were receiving was weekend after weekend of changing a few numbers in their database and having a 2x something weekend. Things such as hard mode sound much more promising. We'll finally be able to max our sunspear and LB titles.

However, this begs the question of why we weren't able to do this in the first place. People have been begging for months and now we finally have vague promises of an update sometime in the future. Where is the auction house? Where is the unrestricted access to UW/FoW and canthan elite missions? What ever happened to the suggestions of people that PvE monsters should actually have balanced skill bars instead of having an elite and two other skills and spawning as level 28 with crap like enraged? PvE could be a much deeper game if monsters were level 20 and had balanced groups and skills, instead of throwing 50 level 28 monsters at us at once, and calling it difficult. Which it is. But it sure as hell isn't any fun. (Note... mesmers would be much more useful in PvE if shutdown was important).

As for people quoting the 50 new PvE only skills as proof they're separating PvE and PvP balance.... that's only five new skills per class, and they're all likely skills such as disarm trap or sunspear rebirth signet that don't have a mammoth impact on the game. Don't be expecting a new 500 damage searing flames skill or anything along those lines.

Whenever PvE crowds complain about something, it gets overlooked. The primary example of how PvP wins out in the end? Changing HA back to 8v8. They didn't want to do it, but they made the change anyway to please their PvP crowd. People have been complaining about favor as a broken system since the beginning of guild wars, and they still haven't touched that.

PvP.

And Ca_aok is a person who knows what he's talking about.

If you look at people's reasoning's behind why Searing Flames SHOULDNT have been nerfed, and why AoE skills/spells SHOULDNT have been nerfed, you will quickly see reasoning why PvE crowds might get overlooked.

Are you kidding me? Every player in this game has the opportunity to talk with the devs they just have to be smart enough to know where to find them. For instance LuLu, Morello, and Izzi are in #gwp on the GameSurge network quite often. Anybody can whisper them and while they might not always respond they are at least there. Us PvPers have to go out of the game, most of the time, to talk with our devs; we don't have a Gaile like you guys do.

Also, the last time I checked every PvP alpha tester was kicked out of the test because ANet wants to do more open tests. So that is not a valid point.

I was mainly a PvEer for the longest time and I'm sorry if this post seems to be putting down PvE players. It just really ticks me off that PvEers feel the need to complain because ANet had to try and make the game balanced for us. There was a competitive series worth $100,000 just announced; the game better be balanced!

PvPers have the most to moan about, if stuff is unbalanced, with something plainly stronger pvp suffers. Pve needs balance updates, if only to move the meta.

Really if pve never changed noone would care, I certainly dont play pve for changing builds everyday, and countering skills on a daily basis. Pve doent need balance updates

I think ANet should consider the PvP crowd more when balancing skills. PvP players tend to have a greater knowledge of the skills overall, and will know where something is good to exploit (New Auspicious Incantation anyone? Great job on the free +50 energy boosts I'm now getting, really great )

Reading all of the posts on this particular topic, i've noticed one major difference between a "PvP" individual, and a "PvE" individual. Sure they nerf our gimmicky crap that we used to rub out the easy wins, we complain for a bit, but we move on and look for other options to exhaust. While a PvE'er will sit there with the bar they have been using for 5+ months, and not know what to do.

Use what little cognitive power your deity gave you, and come up with something else. Each new installment of guild wars gives you not only all these leet places to kill monsters, but it gives you MOAR skills.

And if we are going to keep bringing up things that were nerfed like over 9,000 years ago. I want OoB boon prots, and my Nolani Wand back.

Yes, they appear to favor PvP'ers more, but when was the last time they held competitions worth $100k IRL cash moneys for PvE? Never, and if that day to ever come, anet will cease to have a PvP community, and in its place will be a legion of wammo's.

True Story.

Hopefully GW2 will be better balanced regarding monster skill bars so that the skill balances needed for PvP don't have such a negative effect on the PvE game.
Then nerfs will effect the monsters the same way as human players.

I think the knowledge gained from this thread is as follows:

PVP People think that Anet listens to PVE people and screws them over.

PVE People think that Anet listens to PVP people and screws them over.

Correlation: Both sides are equally screwed over. And blame each other for it, instead of Anet.

ANET listens to players!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Since When?

j/k

PvE gets more content, but PvP is used to determine nerfs. I'm not sure if there is a better way to do that. Unless ANET just makes PvP nerfs not effect PvE.

More useless reply please.
At least, take time to think about your questions.


thanks for proving my points (emphasis on plural).

Request - can we get off the '300' thing
ad nauseam

I can't really recall of any balancing issues made to PvE that pissed off that PvP community.

I can, however, blame ANet for it all. I hope skills have different functions for both PvE and PvP in Guild Wars 2, because balancing them is hell.

I also agree that the 300 references need to stop. It's beginning to lose its cool.

ANET doesn't care about PvE because they've already made all the content they need there and have fully succeeded in making it poorly and making it imbalanced. See here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10139186

PvP, on the other hand, requires balance for fair competition and so needs ANET to monitor it.

However, since the majority of players are PvErs and ANET wants to please them, they cater primarily to the PvErs and waste time with useless crap to occupy their clouded grind-happy minds instead of actually implementing much needed game mechanics. Seriously, stuff like double scrolls weekend? Who gives a shit?

That's not useless. Obviously you didn't get the point.

This thread is in danger to falling in to the pve vs pvp falme wars = Closed

Anet has made a game that designed for pve, and pvp. They are trying to juggle both sides to keep them happy.

When you play only 1 way.. pve only or pvp only as example, when something changes / effects the specific way due to the "other" camp. I can see who you feel that it was "targeted" at you.

Has anyone noticed that anet has posted upcoming skill changes ahead of time and more importantly there telling you why they are changing them (reasons) on the forums. Some are pvp issue, some are pve issues, some are both. Before they did the change and went "surprise" then there was much hate till the rep's posted umm here's why some of the time.

Do I like all changes.. no, when AOE was first changed I created a monk and put my ele on rest for a bit. When I adapted to the change, I came up with what I feel is a nice fire build and even get compliments on my build / nuking ability and counts on things running away from certain skills.

This game since the original beta has so many drastic changes, did anyone expect to not keep changing?

Each player when they start GW, finds what style of characters and jobs they like to play and what modes they play. Saying X or Y sucks actually means you don't like X or Y, not that the other sucks.

(Jeff Spain radio interview) with mentioned trying to keep both pve and pvp camps happy and there trying.

I think a lot of what they learned here in GW1 will be put in to practice in GW2 with this central theme. Allow you to play the way you want to play but make it easier so they can keep both camps happy by having some separation.

Skill balances, PvP.

Everything else, PvE (as it should be ).

I'm sure if you looked hard enough you'd find PvP players who didn't want SF nerfed, for equally stupid reasons. Besides, there will always be people who want to 1 hit k/o monsters and such in PvE, that isn't the discussion at hand.

When it come to skills I would say it is 50/50 although a little towards the PvP players as certain build get stale or over powered at times.The place that Anet needs to listen to when it comes to PvE is how the nerf areas in the game and AI changes.The Mob monsters should be a little stupid and not smart like Humans.The reason they do this is because of farming and those who legitimatly as opposed to the botters.Then there is the drop rate or possibly increase it.

When it come down to the SR change as it was broken as others say it is like the Knight/Ascalon armour as it was broken untill about over a year they fixed it maybe somethings are meant to be broken.You need to look at it from both angles skills PvP,Areas AI PvE.