The ups and downs of Nightfall

Yes I know NF came out awhile ago, and everyone wants to talk about Hard Mode, GWEN, and GW2 now; however, I will still continue with my post!

To begin, I freaking LOVE Nightfall. It's got amazing landscapes, beautiful character models and armor, the inclusion of insignias, etc. Keep in mind I am still level 12. I just did Mission 2, where you first learn of Varesh and that construct thingy that you had to kill. Now that was a really really fun mission! It had traps, it had puzzles, it had cool cutscenes, etc. It was a really enjoyable mission, the kind that makes me really psyched about the upcoming GWEN dungeons.

However, I feel as if the time between missions is too much. There were times when I was running out of quests, and I was thinking "Man i really want to do something more fun." Well I finally got to mission 2 and that was the kind of fun I needed! But right after that it was...more quests. And another concern of mine is soloing. Yes, I understand that we have Heroes now, and thats cool, but I would like to actually play with other people! Will I be running the ENTIRE game with AI instead of people? I think that its absurd to require a Hero in the group for a mission, for example Melonni was needed for Mission 2. Because that makes it impossible to group! Granted you didn't really NEED to group for Mission two, though I wish that you did.

I wish there was less time between missions. I like doing quests, and I like that there is SOME time between missions. Otherwise it wouldn't be as fun to me. But I feel that theres TOO MUCH time between missions. Is it that way for the rest of the game?

Also I'd like to be able to group with real people when I DO do these missions.

By the way, I did play through Factions, but didn't play Prophecies (yet, I'd like all 3 stories before GWEN)

If you want to play with people, you'll quickly learn that people suck. Trust me.

Thread winner.


I honestly do not like Nightfall. The only reason I like it is for:

• Heroes
• New Skills
• Inscriptions

NF was too long for me, I liked Factions much more (except for those stupid locked gates! )

The new professions aren't as good as the Ritualist or Assassin (although the Assassin did suck for a very long time. I suppose that the Derv and Para will get their buff soon), and the whole area looks so boring sand everywhere.

As my said once said, "All areas in NF have sand. Even the RoT, trust me, its black sand." And honestly, thats what I think about every time I go to NF to cap a skill, sand sand sand.

Of course, some of the missions were fun, (The one with the Hunger and the Drought) but once you got into RoT, and saw how hard it was, I have no intention of beating that area any time soon.

With NF, I have created four characters. A Dervish, a Warrior, a Paragon, and a Elementalist.

The only one left is the ele. I honestly can not stand NF, and I will probobly continue to make my characters in Factions.

But I do understand why some people like it

I -like- the game, I just don't like the fact that you cannot complete missions out of order. Quite frankly, there are missions that just... aren't... fun. They have them in every game. The difference is, in prophecies you could skip them and go right to skill capping, farming, even UW/FoW with only 4 missions under your belt.

When I make a new character (working on my 10th now), I'd rather not have to grind through 20 missions to do something like DoA. Out of the three characters I've gotten through NF, only one sees general use in the DoA (my monk), whereas my dervish and paragon... not so much. I had fun playing through everything on my dervish the first time, I did all the quests I could find and got protector of elona, but after doing that... do I really want to do it all again? 10 times? It's rediculous.

So to sum up this little rant:
Pros of NF: Insignias
Heros
...

Cons: Overpowered Skills
Forced Linear Gameplay
Added worth to grindable titles (so much for player skill > time spent)
Heros (Although I liked them, they created a horribly antisocial community)
Slow Pace (Not as slow as prophecies, but again, you can choose your speed there)
Generally ruined the AI at release, though consecutive updates made improments.
Inscriptions (Hello plummeting item prices)

**Added two new classes that were again, not versitile. Warriors are still better than dervishes, and paragons have been nerfed into oblivion since ANET won't make shouts have no effect on allied paragons (solves the 6/8man para teams in HA). The same thing happened in factions... neither class was versitile and both were outstripped by the core classes. Assassins have now been reduced to being 90% BOA spikers, and Ritualists see more use as a secondary because spawning power is useless now, rit lords got nerfed, and both channeling and restoration are inferior to their counterparts on other classes (eles and monks).

I hate it when people say something is "too long". In all honesty, it's a stupid complaint because being too short is a much bigger problem. I like a long game. It keeps me occupied and gives a sense of value to your purchase. I hate games that you finish in 10 to 15 hours. All it means to me is I've blown my money on a short thrill.

Long games FTW.

I think the way to fix a short game, is to do what Factions did. Give you options. You go Kurzick or Luxon, or both, and then its almost like playing a new game.

I hate games that you finish in 10-15 weeks. All it means to me is I've blown my money on no thrill.

My feelings about it: ANet realizes the shortcomings of having a linear storyline and a chopped up, segregated gameworld. They tried slightly different approaches in each chapter so we have a little variety.

I think grouping with people in Guild Wars is more demanding and intense in a much more frequent way than in other games.

I enjoy quests far more than Missions which I sometimes feel gets in the way of playing the game. That's not a totally logical statement, but I hope you get my drift.

Missions really work best if you have a strong, regular bunch of people to run them with. Missions are generally not PuG friendly.

Missions and instancing are what makes Guild Wars different from the other games where you can dynamically change party members, meet new players, help them out while the action is happening, etc.

I really like Nightfall but it's re-playability is absolutely horrible. I liked how Prophecies let you do what you wanted to do, but with Factions and Nightfall, you have to play with the storyline. Of course I don't mind going through the whole thing the first time through, but then there's just somethings I don't feel like going through again. A lot of Nightfall feels like that to me.

Nah. I PuG all the time. Only a small percent of them actually waste my time. And usually it's the people with your viewpoint that "people suck" that screw teams over the most when they do eventually play with others; they leave when the slightest thing goes bad.

"OMG, he hada small lag spike? NOoB!!!!111" <--- player disappears

Wow, I wish that I was that lucky.

/Old man moment

I remember back in the day when it took 15+ tries to get through 1 mission with a PuG.

/end Old man moment

Seriously? That's... kind of... sad. The only mission I ever had to do more than three or so times was Arborstone, and that was because of the bug with Danika when Factions was first released (I did that mission 7 times before my group finally found a way around it). Even the bug with the Drought's mission in NF upon the first run was doable (you had to do the bonus of having the Drought with extra damage) without even knowing how powerful the Drought was.

Maybe you just don't know how to notice the good from the bad players in an outpost?

Zinger is right, PUGs are horrendously bad.

I recently went thru the game again to see how PUGs were these days. Here is a Warrior/Derv PUGer build I saw at Thunderhead Keep.

"Great builds" like this are typical of most PUGers.

There was no such thing as "noticing" the good from the bad unless you played with them(Or had ESP). There pretty much still isn't a definite method for "good PuG" detection.

Like I said, you were lucky.

Maybe I should have put a sarcasm sign before and after that last sentence of mine? I forget it doesn't translate over the internet very well

Stick to doing Primary Quests, and that will speed the game up considerably. All of the other quests add to the periphery of the story, but they do take a considerable amount of time and attention to complete.

Once you are off the island of Istan, you only have 1 to 4 primary quests between each mission. Later in the game, it's down to 1 per mission...

- Grunntar

I think it's unfair to say that people suck. Most of the time when I pug a group for a mission, there is only one or two guys who suck, and that is in a group of 8. People's heroes on the other hand suck - nu runes, crappy weapons and wrong skillbars...

The first time through was great, if a little repetitive with all the sand. After that? It's almost a chore to run each and every character through the missions again. I've stopped trying. My Paragon made it through. That's enough. I've got a Ele just in the RoT and a Warrior at Bone Palace. Maybe I'll get motivated enough to finish with them, but I doubt it.

I think the best setup was Prophecies, but I don't know what happened with these last two.

I am gnashing my teeth and trying to build up the will to run all 10 of my characters through GW:EN so I can get them to the hall of monuments. After that, I'm just doing things I like until GW2, which sounds more open than even Proph was.

when people say "trust me" 9 out of 10 times they are lying but ya i agree with you zinger

I agree with everyone about the horrible replayability. Prophecies was fun since I didn't have that much experience after beating the storyline and all the quests so I had roll new characters (until I started soloing). Later on, I could just skip the stuff I didn't need anymore so skill capping was overall easier. Sorrow's Furnace really added a lot of fun and nicer items (no greens meant golds were really expensive)

My ranger beat Factions the day it came out (haha, Factions was too short and easy - henched 90% of it) but overall it was also pretty boring. Having to trod through it wasn't that bad but some of the missions are just so boring I can't stand it.... Vizunah, for example, was god awful before Heroes came along.

I have like 2 characters (Ranger, Paragon) through all of NF and now I'm working on beating Gate of Pain with my Ele and getting my Ritualist to RoT for the elites there... god I'll be so glad when I get all my characters to Realm of Torrent. Especially my ele so I can do run E/A Shadow Form nuker.

I have like 3 more characters in the Command Post at the moment. Ugh. It's gonna suck having to play through all the missions again...

Most of the people who suck haven't made it to people status yet. They mostly still have to grow into people.

If you can find a real people, it can be quite fun. But then I still prefer a max of four people, with four heroes. That's a fun combination.

As for Nightfall, I never really noticed the sand. Not like in Ascalon. Boy, was I glad to leave Ascalon and see some ice! But then, now that I have a new video card, I might actually see the sand when I play again.

I thought that the biggest down with Nightfall was the battle music. Don't get me wrong, it sucked seeing sand everywhere, but the fact that the battle music rarely differed is what suckedbig time. It also ruined the atmosphere for me. Music volume = 0.

I think it depends on how you like to play a game. Personally, I wasn't a big fan of Prophecies the first time I played it because of the time it took to level up. My friends had a head start on me and it felt like I could never catch up and I stopped playing pretty quickly. Then Factions came out and I loved it because it was less grind and more getting in to the higher levels of gameplay. Nightfall falls somewhere in the middle for me, I absolutely despise having to do the starter island after the first time and sunspear / lightbringer grind kind of sucks in the beginning, but as for the story and game play I like it alot. Storylines and mission variety I would say Prophecies > Nightfall > Factions. Factions takes a big hit because I was not a big fan of time based rewards for the missions. I never felt like I could just enjoy the mission since there was always a sence of urgency. If I want to create a new toon, however, they are coming from Nightfall or Factions due to the ease of leveling.

To the OP, the game picks up alot after you leave the training island. Getting through that can be painful but once you get to the mainland you can stick to the primary quests and move through at a good pace if you are not big on side quests.
Are you talking PVE here? I can not speak for Paragon since that is one profession I haven't tried yet, but the Dervish can be one of the most fun professions out there. I'm not sure how long you played your dervish before you deleted it but it's versatility in a mele class is great to play IMO. I don't think it is fair to say the new classes aren't as good as the Rit or Assasin when all three have their strenghts and weaknesses. I remember when it was difficult to get into a group with a Sin or even a Rit in PVE. I never had the problem forming groups or completing missions with a Dervish (minus DoA but Rits and Sins aren't exactly welcomed with open arms either) because they were accepted and added value to a group pretty early based on their utility.

Honestly I never noticed the sand except in the desolation but I can see how that could bother someone.

Granted I can't sit in front of a computer all day to play the game, but all I have to say is Wow. Maybe the game would have been more fun if you took your time?

Factions was far more visually appealing than that of Nightfall.

Sand..Sand..more sand..Like,4 or 5 different hues of brown..Then Yellow/Black/Brown then Black.

It was pretty terrible.

I still personally believe that Factions was far superior to that of Nightfall.

...and I guess you're a person, no? <just kidding>

Last night I finally finished Nightfall with my ranger. I never used AI once, other than when it was required by a quest or a mission.

I have had an absolute blast enjoying the richness of Nightfall and participating in both the good and bad PuGs, and have made a few new friends (that I've subsequently hooked up with) along the way.

If you want to do things with people find yourself an active friendly guild. In our guild we try to help our guildmates when ever possible. It also helps if the guild has a good alliance adding more people with whom you can do missions and quests with.

Nightfall is good.
its just hard for me to get through the whole thing again.

Pros:Heroes
A few armor sets.
2 new classes.
inscriptions.
insignias.
unlocked chests(even though im getting irritated figuring out when i can open them )
and....ummmm oh the wintersday freezie crown.

Cons: a bit longer than i liked.(i like how factions is).
Boring to look at.(a bit better than old ascalon).

It only took me like 5 hours to burn through it on the preview day. :3

Ups: Heroes, Insignia, Treasure Chests, New Classes, Landscapes
Downs: Inscriptions (I like the old tyrian style) ^^

That's about 23 minutes a mission...

I find that incredibly hard to believe.


I really like how the combat experience has changed from factions to nightfall. There is way more fighting right from the start, and the Sunspear commander title track got me hooked right off the bat. I think it does a much better job of bringing you into the game early, rather than having to do a bunch of quests at the start like in factions.

the exp balance also leans a lot more towards monsters, and you get less from quests, which I really like. You can actually level up just by killing monsters now, plus it contributes to your promotion points

the heros were a welcome addition in my book, basically a fully customisable henchman. the only part i didn't ike before about the hench was the lack of individual control and skill/attribute setup.

Am i the only one who get better PUGs in Faction than in NightFall? Maybe because there's less moron and more player that actually like the older games (which mean they have played enough to know the game).

On topic : worst point of NF (and faction) : locked doors.
Back in Proph, it wouldn't have been so much of a pain (a long pain but a soft one), most missions were easily doable with a slightly-over-average PUG. But their missions keep getting harder (understand tacticaly chalenging).
They range from easy to doable with an organized group (aka guild/friends), but are imposible do PUG unless you can find the kind of people that accept to stick together after 3 wipe. And you can't skip them.

Good job on keeping the earlier mission outpost busy, ANet. Now you keep the older chapters busy. (/sigh come quickly to us GW2! It's more than enough time to start anew))

I do. The preview was only the starter Island. I think that I burned through it just as fast.

I did enjoy the game at the beginning. It was epic and very fun to get into. But I didn't like how fighting starts to turn ugly about half way through the game. Its like they got addicted to using lvl 28 enemies. Its not hard, just annoying as hell. Uber monsters with 8 to 10 levels higher than you could never reach that can off your entire group in one shot is not fun IMO. The missions turn equally ugly.

Don't say the "H" word, you are going to attract the flames.

The only thing I didn't like in NF was the massive amounts of heroes in the game. Instead of replacing henchmen... They made it that now you have heroes and henchmen and in the end it becomes more a single player game then ever, and that just sucks the baloney balls of Abaddon.

The reason PUGs suck is cause nothing is encouraging them to learn to play with others. On top of the fact that the endless spam makes it near impossible to communicate through chat. I think that is a primary reason GW2 is only going to be 1 companion and possibly endless party sizes... Certainly so in the persistent regions.

My personal proposal for hard mode would be to remove all henchmen from the game. If you want Henchmen then you can only have the 3 of the 12 heroes making a party of 4 only... If you want a bigger party you MUST join up with someone... Since the game is playable with 4 person parties in almost all the regular areas, that should not be troublesome to do. But in the end game regions people will hit a wall unless they party up with someone. As they should.

Searing Flames
Heros
Inscriptions

The three greatest parts of nightfall.

If you liked the puzzles in Jokanur, then you can be sure to look forward to NO MORE OF THOSE MISSIONS.

The rest is hack and slash. Not that I don't love it, just an observation.

Nothing to add.

After reading through most of these threads, it seems that a lot of people found Nightfall to be TOO long and Factions was actually perfect. I remember so many rants about Factions being too short and Nightfall better be longer. A lot of people were worried still that NF only had 20 mission compared to Prophecies' 25. I love seeing how all this changed.

Well, I think Prophecies will always be superior, but I think when Factions came out, people were expecting a Prophecies type game, when Factions is no where Proph, so people were pretty bummed out.

Get into a guild.

My analysis :

Prophecy looked too long because you had to lvl before going everywhere.
Faction was not just too short but too SMALL compared to prophecy.
Nightfall has less mission but you back track much more often (good thing design-wise if you dont grow more powerful, bad thing play-wise because you get tired) and the average link quest are longer than proph. Plus the locked doors still force you to play quite a while before going everywhere (proph had lvl to hinder you)

Now we see what is a longer game without the tremendous proph-like map. In turn Faction seem like less loosing time than NF.

EDIT : Answer : in a guild you loose the fun of cooperationg with people you dont know.