There seems to be a general opinion of Warriors as ‘damage absorbers,’ and as a result, the builds, Armour and weapon choices we see out there are bent towards making the Warrior a big inanimate punching bag for all the other classes to use as a distraction while they rain down the damaging spells.
…. Most of the efforts with this mindset simply fail….
The reason why is because most players simply don’t know how tanking works, or how to manage agro, or that there is simply a better way to play the game. (as a damage dealer rather than a damage absorber)
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How enemies become aggravated (agro):
~ enemies will not just target the only player within agro range (white bubble). Instead the enemies will determine which foe to attack based upon several factors/actions. For instance…
Enemies ‘can’ target any player that they are aware of, such as:
1. Any player within agro bubble distance.
2. Any player that casts a spell on the enemy or attacks it will a ranged weapon (longbow) regardless of the distance.
3. Any player that casts a spell (enchantment) on a player that is within agro range of the enemy.
Enemies ‘will’ hold agro (lock onto and attack) players that meet certain requirements. such as:
1. The ‘only’ player that the enemy is aware of (see above list)
2. The lowest Armour/health player that the enemy is aware of (if there are several)
3. The player that is attacking/casting if there are several players that the enemy is aware of.
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How enemies ‘break’ agro. (this is when the enemy will re-evaluate the targets that it is aware of.)
1. if the player that is holding agro moves. (i.e. ….a warrior player that has agro is attacking a warrior enemy and moves or switches targets…then the warrior enemy chooses to attack a different target)
2. If the enemy is subjected to an area of effect spell/skill such as firestorm. (this will cause the enemy to scatter before re-evaluating its target …choosing then from the players it is aware of)
3. Body Blocking: (i.e. …an enemy warrior is locked onto a caster and is chasing him, then a warrior player stands between them and attacks…the enemy warrior will then drop agro and switch targets)
4. Increased speed skills. A player that uses such a skill will drop the agro from the enemy and the enemy will re-evaluate the targets that it is aware of (except the increased speed player)
5. when a caster enemy gets targeted by a melee player it will usually break agro.
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So with these principles in mind it is easy to see the common mistakes that players make when tanking/nuking.
~moving while holding agro.(this will cause them to break agro and reevaluate)
~running past the enemy warriors to target the casters.(this will cause the enemy warriors to run past the warrior player and lock onto the friendly casters)
~casting low damage aoe spells (causes the mob to scatter and re-evaluate targets)
~casting an enchantment onto the ‘tank’ while he is in agro range..but not ‘holding agro’
…and the list goes on…. Which truly renders ‘tanking’ useless unless you have an organized team who know how to manage agro properly.
For a more comprehensive study on tanking see:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ing-id1982.php
and
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Agro
~~~~~~~~~~ OR ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Do what is actually more useful. Forget tanking and use the warrior for damage.
edit: to further clarify my point, tanking takes a knowlege and skill that most players/pug do not have (and will not take the time to study) and anet is always making updates to make the enemy mobs not fall for this tactic. I am illustrating why (in most pve) it is better to have a damage build rather than a tanking build.
(more on this will come later… and if you notice something that is incorrect please let me know… the AI of the enemy mobs change from time to time)
How Tanking works (or...How it doesn't)
clawofcrimson
fb2000
"2. The lowest Armour/health player that the enemy is aware of (if there are several)"
Is this actually true? So if I use a char with 15 al and say 200hp, which was say wanding some monster warrior, would aggro be close to unbreakable? :P
have to test that
Is this actually true? So if I use a char with 15 al and say 200hp, which was say wanding some monster warrior, would aggro be close to unbreakable? :P
have to test that
kumarshah
I also think that the moment a healer heals you (Warrior) the enemy tries to switch targets to the healer.
Utaku
Quote:
Originally Posted by fb2000
"2. The lowest Armour/health player that the enemy is aware of (if there are several)"
Is this actually true? So if I use a char with 15 al and say 200hp, which was say wanding some monster warrior, would aggro be close to unbreakable? :P
have to test that It is. Try with low level heroes (their armor level is low), they are agro magnets.
Is this actually true? So if I use a char with 15 al and say 200hp, which was say wanding some monster warrior, would aggro be close to unbreakable? :P
have to test that It is. Try with low level heroes (their armor level is low), they are agro magnets.
clawofcrimson
Quote:
Originally Posted by kumarshah
I also think that the moment a healer heals you (Warrior) the enemy tries to switch targets to the healer.
yes. Sorry if I didnt make it clear, but I would venture to say that if a friendly even uses a skill, while inside the agro of the 'tank' (while he is entering the enemies agro) then he will be targeted.
... I am not sure about the priority the enemy takes however... (amour>health etc..)
... I am not sure about the priority the enemy takes however... (amour>health etc..)
kumarshah
I have generally found it hard to keep all enemies aggroed onto me as a Warrior.
martialis
All of that has been true since the first day of the game, in the absense of the book trick. You can hardly argue that something is too hard, if it's always been this hard.
There's already a guide to this that isn't sarcastic and silly.
*sigh*
There's already a guide to this that isn't sarcastic and silly.
*sigh*
clawofcrimson
^ true. and the guide is a very good one. I am not trying to give a comprehensive study on tanking. My point is that the average player and PUG will focus their build strategy around 'tanking' when they have no idea...(and will not take the time to read) how this works...
...so they fail at it. Only when you have a group that has 'studied' tanking, can you pull this off.
...I have seen too many builds/ players that are focused on tanking.... but have no idea how it works...I wanted to give players a small taste of the mechanics to illustrate why its too difficult to try in every PUG... hopefully so we will better builds posted.
...so they fail at it. Only when you have a group that has 'studied' tanking, can you pull this off.
...I have seen too many builds/ players that are focused on tanking.... but have no idea how it works...I wanted to give players a small taste of the mechanics to illustrate why its too difficult to try in every PUG... hopefully so we will better builds posted.