GW2 and Item Decay -- Yay or Nay?
floppinghog
yah useless, its a game afterall, we know thinks decay in real life why does it have to be incorporated into a fantasy game world? the answer is: it shouldn't. decay just takes away from the gaming experience.
Splatter Mcnasty
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Originally Posted by jkyarr
One of my biggest frustrations about GW1 is that everyone around me seems to be so flippin uber-rich that they can toss plats around without remorse like I toss skales. You've got to take a closer look at the flow of the money before you start using words like "economy". Fact is there's very little that serves the purpose of removing wealth from the economy because players ability to amass wealth has far surpassed the cost of NPC services. The increased usage of Runes of Superior Vigor and rise in the number Guild Hall NPCs are clear indications of that.
GW2 could be an entirely different economic paradigm, so that's a big wait and see, but for the purposes of excluding Item Decay based on an incomplete glance at the GW1 economy, I just don't see that argument having any substance to it. |
prism2525
no 10x. I'd rather have to pay double than have to keep repairing stuff. And if you forget to repair it and then, all of a sudden, your uber-rare goes *snap*? Not to mention that if there will be heroes in GW2 you'll have to keep an eye out for THEIRS too.
Kali Magdalene
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Originally Posted by jkyarr
The purpose of this thread is to
1. State (and explain) your opinion about item decay in MMOs. For it? Against it? 2. If interested, brainstorm a possible implementation methodology for a meaningful item decay system that works in a sensible way that players can accept. 3. Tell us, do you think Anet should put it in GW2? Obviously if you're absolutely against item decay in any form, there's no point in answering #2. I have no idea if Anet will put item decay in GW2 or not, and this isn't meant to start any rumors. Just playing  advocate. |
Silent Coyote
Strongly against item decay. I haven't liked it in any of the games I've played with it in (like WoW) all it does is add forced grinding/money sink. It's also incredibly annoying and I can't see how anyone could find it fun.
jkyarr
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Originally Posted by Splatter Mcnasty
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it almost looks like you brought this whole concept up because you dont like other people having more money than you...How is item decay going to solve that problem? Its not. Your items would be subject to the same decay as the weapons of the rich people.
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Other people's money has never been my concern. I'm a casual player on the relative scale and feel very well satisfied with my level of success in the game. When I get outbid for a rare weapon every now and then I accept it as a consequence of my inability to play the game more often. I merely included an observation that was relevant to my point on the economy.
But thanks for the meaningless off-topic tactic attempting to undermine the credibility of the original topic provider. You should thoroughly waste other's time more often...
[KotL]Mjolnir
One of the things that drove me crazy in Oblivion was after every fight I had to repair weapons and armour, it was far to tedious and really hampered my enjoyment.
Nevin
2. I think they should have Item Decay, but have jobs to support such a mechanic. Like being able to become a Blacksmith, in which you could repair weapons/items for free and do so for other players if you wish.
Domino
Item durability takes gold out of the economy and prevents inflation.
I'm all for it.
There's also something gratifying about slaying all these creatures, then heading back to the Armorer and repairing your gear.... Makes the game more realistic if you ask me.
I'm all for it.
There's also something gratifying about slaying all these creatures, then heading back to the Armorer and repairing your gear.... Makes the game more realistic if you ask me.
Delutia
There will always be players with millions of gold. Item decay will barely touch them at all - especially since players with that much money aren't earning it through grinding. As for rarity, if they wanted really rare items, they could make them only drop once a month or something.
Gold sinks should remain as positive things for players, i.e. better-looking armor, guild stuff, etc. If they really want more gold sinks they can add tons of things like these, with high price tags. This will allow uber-rich players to spend their gold on stuff, while not hurting the rest of the players.
Gold sinks should remain as positive things for players, i.e. better-looking armor, guild stuff, etc. If they really want more gold sinks they can add tons of things like these, with high price tags. This will allow uber-rich players to spend their gold on stuff, while not hurting the rest of the players.
Curse You
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Originally Posted by jkyarr
That would be wrong and stand in need of correction. The other postee brought up the economy in a rather 1/2 baked comment and so I proceeded to discuss the economy in further detail. The original topic is obviously item decay.
Other people's money has never been my concern. I'm a casual player on the relative scale and feel very well satisfied with my level of success in the game. When I get outbid for a rare weapon every now and then I accept it as a consequence of my inability to play the game more often. I merely included an observation that was relevant to my point on the economy. But thanks for the meaningless off-topic tactic attempting to undermine the credibility of the original topic provider. You should thoroughly waste other's time more often... |
If I make a thread requesting that all skills be changed to Frenzy and Mending (largely exaggerated), the most probable reason would be that I either think they are the only good skills, or dislike people using other skills. However, I did not state either, only implied.
jkyarr
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
QFT. That should end the discussion right there.
I find it odd you're arguing for this, when you are against other forms of grind (and, yes, decay would lead to grind because I would have to repeat steps in order to keep my weapon at peak condition, whatever those steps may be). Why not add old age to our characters, so more we play them, the weaker and weaker they get until they die. That sounds like fun... |
But don't go alledging inconsistencies in my opinions...
I can only be held to what I'm thinking today... what I wrote before... who knows... who was that guy?
Enix
It would be interesting if you had to get your items recustomized after a certain amount of play - Like if your +20% Damage would lose 1% per hour or something. Would make weaponsmiths worth something, at least for weapon-centric chars. Increaes the price too - 10g is meh. I fart at 10g. 10g for Low non-req items, 500g for max items/greens. :S
wingzro
I could care less either way. What would I better spend the extra money with anyway? Yet another set of 15k armor?
jkyarr
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Originally Posted by Delutia
There will always be players with millions of gold. Item decay will barely touch them at all - especially since players with that much money aren't earning it through grinding. As for rarity, if they wanted really rare items, they could make them only drop once a month or something.
Gold sinks should remain as positive things for players, i.e. better-looking armor, guild stuff, etc. If they really want more gold sinks they can add tons of things like these, with high price tags. This will allow uber-rich players to spend their gold on stuff, while not hurting the rest of the players. |
Bowstring Badass
Why put item decay in the game? Just to make the people mad? It's a domb idea and its retarded and a waste of gold might have to play PvP if that happens...
Terra Xin
I'd rather see more gold sinks than... automated depreciation :S
jkyarr
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Originally Posted by Curse You
His point was well founded, as you have failed to give us a reason for your "poll" either than that you felt like it. The whole topic is incredibly far from what is the Guild Wars model.
If I make a thread requesting that all skills be changed to Frenzy and Mending (largely exaggerated), the most probable reason would be that I either think they are the only good skills, or dislike people using other skills. However, I did not state either, only implied. |
As for me implying something.... I say what I want and mean just what I say. If that implies "your mama is fat" to some folks, I can't help it. They can be offenders for a word whenever they choose. I've got life with which on to get.
Pandora's box
Generally: Nay, because its a useless goldsink that encourages grinding. The one exception for me: 'Uber' items (yes I want them in GW2!) with a restricted lifetime: If someone really wants that one kill every monster sword than be prepared to spend *lots* of gold for maintenance!
ShadowsRequiem
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Originally Posted by jkyarr
1. I think the concept of item decay makes sense and adds an element of realism to gaming. I think that every implementation of item decay I've ever seen in any game absolutely sucked! Item decay adds a level of complexity to a game that one could debate is/isn't conducive to enjoying the experience of the game and may/not distract from the main focus/purpose for playing. All-in-All, I am for "the right" implementation of Item Decay
2. So what is "the right" implementation of item decay? I'll get back to my opinion in a subsequent post because I intend to make a proposal, give specific formulas, & point out the strengths and weaknesses of the system I think up. 3. Yes I do think it should be in GW2 for one reason only.... How else does Anet intend to control item rarity? In GW1 green weapons used to be the bomb. As time has gone on the actual rarity of such weapons amongst the population has decreased. Yes... item customization decreases availability to an extent, but there are never repeat customers for the same item. As time goes on the game will inevitably become saturated with green weapons (I already have a around a dozen from me and my heroes). Was this the original design intent when green weapons were thought of? So what can be done to keep item rarity at a level that is in line with the original design intent? What does it do for game replayability? I don't count grinding as replayable content, so what would I do if my item wore out and I needed a new one? I'll undertake to account for these questions in my proposal. |
The thing that really bugged me was you used the term "Realism" and by that fact it makes you completely hippocritical.... How can you ask for realism when you play a game pitting you against Demons, Dragons, Trolls, and god knows what else?
Not sure if you havent noticed, but I cant shoot a fireball out of my hand.
as for weapon decay /not signed
Pkest
weapon decay was one of the dreariest aspects of Diablo 2. I'd just as soon not see it return.
Hysteria
For a few minutes before I read most of the responces I was thinking that perhaps a minor decay ie, no breakage, just durability and dmg ability that would have to be repaired infrequently and at a minor cost would be interesting. But after a bit more thought and viewing most of the reasoning here I would have to decline to have it added to GW2. There's probably already enough ideas for gold sinks for the new game and it just add's a feature that will start to become very cumbersome and down right annoying after a while.
jkyarr
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Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem
The thing that really bugged me was you used the term "Realism" and by that fact it makes you completely hippocritical.... How can you ask for realism when you play a game pitting you against Demons, Dragons, Trolls, and god knows what else?
Not sure if you havent noticed, but I cant shoot a fireball out of my hand. |
That's ok with me... I think realism has its place... I guarantee you that the physics (aka spell effects and who knows what else... maybe rag doll effects) will be much more realistic in GW2 than in GW1. I won't shy away from using a buzzword like "realism" just cuz it seems to push some buttons... Heck it seems that its what got you to participate... so GOOD!
I don't pretend to have any delusions about wanting a game that is so obviously deeply steeped in pretend-land to be full of realism in every way of which I can think. My point is that there are good aspects to realism and less favorable/enjoyable ones. Should I not call them what they are?
Chris616263
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Originally Posted by Pkest
weapon decay was one of the dreariest aspects of Diablo 2. I'd just as soon not see it return.
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Of course, gold in Diablo 2 drops by the thousands in Hell mode; and having a cookie-cutter build which can cause obscene amounts of AOE damage in seconds makes gold worthless in that game. The TRUE currency in Diablo 2 is Runes and Perfect Gems. I don't like that economy very much... Let's not revert to something that primitive.
BTW, another aspect of D2 everyone failed to discuss was Ethereal items. Ethereal items have much better mods; but they could not be repaired once they broke! Anybody like that idea?
LifeInfusion
Hell no. That would be utterly retarded. Imagine the "You have been playing for an hour, please take a break" turn into "You have been playing for an hour, please repair your weapons, they have half durability"
Darkest Dawn
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Originally Posted by SigurdTheBalmung
If by item decay you mean durability of the item, in a sense that it will break and have to be repaired before it is useful again such as in many other MMOs(WoW, EQ2, D&D Online...) I'm not sure if I would be for it or not.
Repair bills in MMOs are a form of money sink. It is an essential way of removing currency and in effect keeping the value of currency up as all players have to repair and the economy loses money. With the current Guild Wars system, the economy is tightly controlled by Arena.net in the form of material, rare material, dye and armor vendors as well as the occasional salvage or ID kit. Arena.net's money sinks come in the form of non-required things such as prestige armor, guild halls and upgrades, skills buying. All of which are non-essentials. Money sinks, such as repair bills, work only in an economy in which the majority of players control and craft materials. With the acquisition of most materials coming from a player grinding for themselves or from vendors and then being returned to the system, repair bills in the system would be more of a burden than just a simple annoyance as they are in say World of Warcraft. Of course, in any MMO all money eventually returns to the system. But let's look at WoW for instance.(I know ppl don't always like it, but the economies in WoW are very good examples.) All materials(or almost all) in WoW come from the players themselves, with the exception of the most basic of materials(thread for example). The items created in WoW can be resold to any player(as long as they are not bind on pickup). So players are able to charge higher prices than cost for materials in WoW and make profit. In the current GW, you can't craft items to sell and make profit. This means the only income you get comes in the form of drops period. Unless buying a weapon or material from another player, all money returns to the system. There is no room for a large scale player run economy where money changes hand between user and user forcing the system to have a way to get rid of currency from the player base. The system in Guild Wars is predisposed to getting rid of money. Unless GW2 has a large scale, fully functional economy where the player based is allowed to create and sell items, and the freedom to do so without having to be logged in(IE an auction house of sorts) I see no reason to have item decay, durability, or repairs because the system in its current form needs no more money sinks to keep the economy in check. |
juggalol
durability on weapons and stuff would be cool, like diablo.
Evilsod
Weapon durability was 1 of the worst ideas ever. While realistic, its way too fustrating. It also would be impossible to work into GW been as you can't just cast a 'TP' and go repair it.
Zaganher Deathbane
A definite NO!
It's a time sink, requires gold, and therefore requires grind. Anets policy on GW is no grind to less grind as possible. This would be very bad to players who enjoyed a less grind game like GW as it is
It's a time sink, requires gold, and therefore requires grind. Anets policy on GW is no grind to less grind as possible. This would be very bad to players who enjoyed a less grind game like GW as it is
Elnai
Simple Answer: No weapon decay.
Its a useless and annoying mechanic. Its not gonna help the rarity of items. Green items were just a cheap and simple way for people to get perfect items.
Its a useless and annoying mechanic. Its not gonna help the rarity of items. Green items were just a cheap and simple way for people to get perfect items.
kumarshah
No...please no. Weapons are fine they way they are.
How are we supposed to deal with areas that take hours to clear?
How are we supposed to deal with areas that take hours to clear?
Moral55
I know.
Item decay as a deterrent from playing to long, say after a good healthy 2 hour dose of playing, your armour starts losing 5% of it's base protection, and 5% every 30min there after, and the same for weapon damage too!
then when your off, after ( 5? 10? ) hours your stuff is back as good as new.
It would mean farmers would have to buy more then one account and keep people from playing to long! 
Disclaimer: I do not mean what I say.
and to answer no I hate item decay.
Item decay as a deterrent from playing to long, say after a good healthy 2 hour dose of playing, your armour starts losing 5% of it's base protection, and 5% every 30min there after, and the same for weapon damage too!
then when your off, after ( 5? 10? ) hours your stuff is back as good as new.
It would mean farmers would have to buy more then one account and keep people from playing to long!
Disclaimer: I do not mean what I say.
and to answer no I hate item decay.
wingzro
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Originally Posted by Moral55
I know.
Item decay as a deterrent from playing to long, say after a good healthy 2 hour dose of playing, your armour starts losing 5% of it's base protection, and 5% every 30min there after, and the same for weapon damage too! then when your off, after ( 5? 10? ) hours your stuff is back as good as new. It would mean farmers would have to buy more then one account and keep people from playing to long! Disclaimer: I do not mean what I say. and to answer no I hate item decay. |
Elena
no youre pun as making it more real ? hmm yeah cause in real life i can invoke earthqaukes with waving my hands in the air a little a bit in real life i yust map travel to school everyday
only thing this will do is annoy people
imagine:
youre in the end of game you yust got youre self a decent group who will listen and the warrior is offcourse tanking
now imagine if half during the mission/quest the warrior in the middle of tanking monsters screams: omg! my armour is about to break! sorry guys gtg! *leave*
you: damn you armor decay!!! damn you!!!
*you gets eaten alive*
only thing this will do is annoy people
imagine:
youre in the end of game you yust got youre self a decent group who will listen and the warrior is offcourse tanking
now imagine if half during the mission/quest the warrior in the middle of tanking monsters screams: omg! my armour is about to break! sorry guys gtg! *leave*
you: damn you armor decay!!! damn you!!!
*you gets eaten alive*
erkun
So many people wants realism in fantasy games... If you really want to simulate the real world, maybe games like Sims/Flight Simulator are the ones you're looking for.
I say NO to Item Decay. Senseless and annoying. Next thing we know, people will be asking for a crafter/merchant class too.
I say NO to Item Decay. Senseless and annoying. Next thing we know, people will be asking for a crafter/merchant class too.
DutchGun
Item decay would only make sense if it was integrated as part of a strategy to prevent hyper-inflation of player-crafted items. Think about the way the economy works for a bit:
Players go out into the world and harvest gold and raw materials. If GW2 has a crafting system, then for it to be of any use, it would need to be useful to players. However, if items never decay, then there would eventually be a glut of crafted items on the market, eventually destroying any sense of balanced economy.
In general, I think I haven't seen a decay system that wasn't horribly annoying. If I were to design one, here's a few basic requirements:
Here's an alternate idea... Instead of items degrading, how about giving crafters the ability to provide degradable weapon, armor, or item enhancements? Blacksmiths could sharpen weapons, enchanters could provide temporary buffing spells, woodworkers could sell "arrows" that give any bow skills damage (it the same decay mechanic). This provides a bit of extra bonus to those willing to pay a crafter for it.
My guess is that Anet will probably stay far away from this concept regardless. It's really not something I could see them doing, given the tone of GW (insta-map travel, infinite arrows, etc).
Players go out into the world and harvest gold and raw materials. If GW2 has a crafting system, then for it to be of any use, it would need to be useful to players. However, if items never decay, then there would eventually be a glut of crafted items on the market, eventually destroying any sense of balanced economy.
In general, I think I haven't seen a decay system that wasn't horribly annoying. If I were to design one, here's a few basic requirements:
- The item should never be completely destroyed or unusable. It would cap at a minimum percentage of effectiveness.
- Item decay should be very slow - as in, "you can play for weeks before needing to repair your items" slow. And, a drop in effectiveness (damage output, armor rating, etc) would only start occurring at the end of the decay cycle (like the last 10%).
- Only player-crafted items should need repairing. The upside is that they tend to be better than equivalent non-crafted items (maybe a 5 to 10% bonus).
Here's an alternate idea... Instead of items degrading, how about giving crafters the ability to provide degradable weapon, armor, or item enhancements? Blacksmiths could sharpen weapons, enchanters could provide temporary buffing spells, woodworkers could sell "arrows" that give any bow skills damage (it the same decay mechanic). This provides a bit of extra bonus to those willing to pay a crafter for it.
My guess is that Anet will probably stay far away from this concept regardless. It's really not something I could see them doing, given the tone of GW (insta-map travel, infinite arrows, etc).
Not A Fifty Five
Well I'm gonna be the rare exception and not support it but answer #2 >.>
The problem is if I supported it, it might help to get it implemented. But while game devs (for all games) seem very adept at listening to the players they always put their own quirks on it, so supporting it with a given idea for implementation.. not doing it lol, they'd just make it whatever they want.
How I think it could be implemented in a non-frustrating way... eh just balance really. Someone here said make it too strong and it'd reduce customers, make it too weak and its just an annoyance. Realism ftw
Swords etc. last a long time, much longer than the decays given in most video games. I think a very slow decay rate with no option for repair is a nice way to implement it. Enough so you'd use a white, or purple, whatever for common battles. Would you really waste an uber sword fighting moa birds?
The problem is if I supported it, it might help to get it implemented. But while game devs (for all games) seem very adept at listening to the players they always put their own quirks on it, so supporting it with a given idea for implementation.. not doing it lol, they'd just make it whatever they want.
How I think it could be implemented in a non-frustrating way... eh just balance really. Someone here said make it too strong and it'd reduce customers, make it too weak and its just an annoyance. Realism ftw
Swords etc. last a long time, much longer than the decays given in most video games. I think a very slow decay rate with no option for repair is a nice way to implement it. Enough so you'd use a white, or purple, whatever for common battles. Would you really waste an uber sword fighting moa birds?
silvershock
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Originally Posted by jkyarr
Obviously if you're absolutely against item decay in any form, there's no point in answering #2. |
So hereby: No item decay is annoying. I played 3 MMO's who had the item decay feature and it sucks when ur out fighting monsters and your bow stops working and needs repair. The border to obtaining realistic features in a game and f*cking up the gameplay has been reached there.
=HT=Ingram
I personally think this is a good idea... If an item is new it performs better if its old it should be a little less effective. Especially if used a lot. I would however cap the decay to -10% dmg reduction. That way a Customization to account (any character or companion can use on the account) will recover its quality Plus some... If you want to KEEP it!!
I encourage equipment for you to use and keep and Always, always, discourage anything that would buff a resell value on an inflation scale. As such a decaying weapon is weaker compared to a new weapon freshly crafted.
Greens and Reds would not be decayed because they are magically enhanced.
I should note that I also believe that every green and red should be forced customized so it can not be sold to others. But that's my opinion... It should stand as a reward for achievement, not as an item to be over farmed. Otherwise anet will fall into the same old exploited inflation market spam meta game again in GW2.
I encourage equipment for you to use and keep and Always, always, discourage anything that would buff a resell value on an inflation scale. As such a decaying weapon is weaker compared to a new weapon freshly crafted.
Greens and Reds would not be decayed because they are magically enhanced.
I should note that I also believe that every green and red should be forced customized so it can not be sold to others. But that's my opinion... It should stand as a reward for achievement, not as an item to be over farmed. Otherwise anet will fall into the same old exploited inflation market spam meta game again in GW2.
Dj Tano
I think that such things totaly depend on how the actual gameplay is going to be, and since we have no clue yet, lock this shit...