Spawning Powers - Spirits - Soul Reaping

Given the failed attempts by ArenaNet to hender the Soul Reaping+Spirit Spamming it's becomming obvious they don't know what to do about it that would hender it without killing it off as an option given how little Soul Reaping is useful in PvP. So maybe it is time for the players to come up with something that will help them given all the trouble they are having with this particular gimmick build because it's not as easily counters as say 'bringing disenchantments to deal with skills like the Conjure Weapons.' Hopefully, if this proves helpful, ArenaNet will come to the Elite Fansite Forums for future ideas on how to deal with Gimmicks without nerfs more issues arising, especially between PvP and PvE as both are needed to keep Guild Wars live and enjoyable for everyone.


Mods, I made this new thread rather placing it in the Soul Reaping one as that thread has been derailed by people trying to turn it into another PvP vs PvE rather than work to provide helpful insite and that is hardly useful for the issues at hand.


Here are some ideas on this subject:

- Limit any team to no more than 3 of any primary profession.

This would not hurt any balanced team but only hender those trying to run gimmicks that require little to no though. It may or may not help with limiting the number of skills needing nerfed constantly and help restore some that were nerfed into oblivion.

- Soul Reaping: Change it back to how it used to be but instead of Half Energy from spirits have it give 1/4th the energy so if someone has a 12 in Soul Reaping they only get 3 Energy from a dead spirit. It still helps Necros in PvP without giving them to much power all the time.


These two are coupled together.

- Ritualist Spirits: When the caster dies (with a Zero in Spawning Powers) Spirits have a 50% chance to turn on your team for another team (Randomly if fighting more than one team at once). There is a 30% chance the spirit will just die off. There is a 20% chance the spirit will stay for your side.
- Spawning Powers: For each rank in Spawning Power you have, creatures you create (or animate) will have 4% more Health. Some Ritualist skills, especially those related to Spirit creatures, become more effective with higher Spawning Power. For each rank you gain a 2% increase in the chance your Bound Spirits will remain Bound to you.

To clearify, if someone with a 12 in Spawning Powers dies they will have a 44% chance to keep their spirits bound to them, a 30% chance the spirit just dies, and a 26% chance the spirit will turn against thier team and help another team. This would also help encurage people to place points in Spawning Powers.

This adds a bit of lore to the game as the spirits can 'decide to leave or turn on those who forcefully bound them (they are chained into place afterall) or if the person is powerful enough they can keep the spirit bound. This also goes a bit with summoned creatures as a Necro's minions always turn evil when their master dies but minions are rather brainless so they just go hostile against all.

This would also hender, without destroying, those abusing spirit spamming Ritualist Spirits without anything in Spawning Powers. People could still use them just fine if the caster does not die.

Note: This thread is a Discussion about how to deal with the Soul Reaping+Spirit Spamming so please keep all flames to yourself and only post helpful information.

So what is everyone elses thoughts on how to deal with the issue of Soul Reaping+Spirit Spamming without destroying it?

Gaile has said that Soul Reaping wasn't just changed because of abuse in PvP, but also because of it being overpowered in the first place.

Soul Reaping has been dealt with, and still remains as one of the more powerful primary attributes. All it requires now is that the player manages their energy better.

I don't remember ever seeing anyone complain about it being over powered in PvE before, and I've been playing almost two years now and logged over four thousand hours. Then again, we know Gaile is often mistaken or incorrect in her information, or just has half-information from the rest of the staff that lead her to incorrect conclusions on frequent occasions.

Manage your Necro's energy? Manage it with what?
There are No Core Energy Management Skills for Necromancers, and the two Prophecies only ones are each specific Death and one to Blood magic... and so they don't work with every build, especially since one is an elite skill. The only other option is Signet of Lost Souls, which is from Nightfall only and does work with Soul Reaping... but is the only such one, as Reaper's Mark is an elite, just like Cultist's Fervor is... and it's in Blood. So there are no good Energy management skills for a Necro that don't require him to give up his elite skill or to play a specific attribute line... and they are all campaign specific, so unless you have all three campaigns you're totally screwed.

PvP abused Soul Reaping with Spirit Spamming, ArenaNet tried to nerf it by cutting the energy gain from dying spirits, they failed. ArenaNet tried to nerf the Soul reaping attribute and didn't consider the impact on PvE, and the nerf still failed to affect the PvP players who were/are Spirit Spamming... and only the PvE game play was hurt... so they failed again.
The only logical thing to do now is to remove the energy gain from spirits and restore Soul Reaping back to what it was. This is an obvious fix, this is the fix that the majority wants, this is the only fix that will solve the Spirit Spamming abuse problem in PvP, aside from limiting teams to only three of any one primary profession... so why won't they do what it takes to fix it?


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Now, back on topic...

Personally I like the idea of limiting the number of any one profession on a team, this would solve most all gimmick builds and save ArenaNet the trouble of nerfing so many skills and ultimately and irreparable damaging PvE in the process.

I also like your idea for making Spawning Powers a useful attribute, as currently I don't think too many people use it or have to use it... while other classes have to invest in their primary attribute just to get by (Rangers & Expertise, Elementalists & Energy Storage, Monks & Divine Favor, etc.) so why not require that of Ritualists too? Sounds fair to me.

Ugh. Dont know why people keep bringing up the horrible 3 per profession up all the time. And not surprisingly, it's PVE players that come up with it. Skills that are imbalanced still need to be balanced. Limiting the number of professions won't change that and we'll still have the crying about skill nerfs.

because why would anyone complain? If only AI can complain huh?

yet another thread that will degenerate into a pointless argument between the same 5-10 posters, with the random troll here and there. cant we just keep this in the soul reaping discussion thread?

id give my two cents, but i already did on like page 3 of the other thread, and its not going to add anything new to the discussion to simply C&P my response.

so ill start this thread off (though i wish this was the end of it) with a quote from johnny blaze; "Flame on!".

It's keeps getting brought back up because it's such a great idea, and would eliminate so many of the gimmick builds that require six to eight of one profession to work, that it really should be worked into the game, as it has only positive aspects and won't do a thing to hurt balanced teams that are actually trying to play fairly.

It's true some skills are sometimes imbalanced, but so many are only imbalanced when every member of the team can spam them at once. If you have any better suggestions for fixes lets hear them, just whining about why you don't like the current ideas is silly if you don't have any ideas of your own.

I like the primary profession limit, as I said, and have explained why... and I also said that I like the idea for Spawning Powers. Actually, the more I think about it the more it sounds like a great idea to make the attribute worthwhile.

If it had been overpowered and was being abused for farming or gave Necromancers an advantage then the other players of other classes would have complained and you'd most likely have seen groups of all necromancers out there ruling the PvE world... but none of that ever happened because they were never over powered.

So tell me then, why is it so 'horrible' to limit it to only 3 of a primary profession on a team? It would help deal with some of the gimmicks being run to keep them from being over powered. Also, where was it said that doing so would mean skills would never need to be balanced? Skills will always need to be monitored and adjusted but with the limit keeping teams from running some gimmicks it should help decrease the amount of skills needed adjusted so often.

So what exactly is your suggestion on how to fix the issues? Or are you just in here trolling as well? Note, I'm asking if you are trolling giving you are just flamming PvE players once again rather than posting helpful information.




Yeah, they would complain about all those people taking quests and rewards from them without telling them thanks. They'd complain about how they can't more out of this one little area for even a bathroom break or get some sleep because people keep comming through that area killing them or how their buddies reek of Body Odor from not taking a bath for so long. If Necro's where so powerful in PvE why were most solo farming builds primary professions Assassins, or Elementlist, or Monks, or Warriors, or Rangers, or even Dervishes?

So are you going to post anything helpful or just troll? This topic is for you to offer your suggestion on how to deal with the fix, not try to flame. So please dont' try to derail the topic further.

Sadly I have to agree, some want to destroy any topic about fixing the issues and this topic is turing off topic just as they wanted. The Soul Reaping topic has been derailed far to much to be of much use sadly.

Mods, can you please clean this topic of the flamers posts and the responses to them in the hopes of keeping a thread on topic to try and help Arena Net with the issues at hand?

So you want to tie Ritualist skills to the Necromancer primary attribute? That seems a bit unfair, wouldn't that give Necromancers an advantage over something that the Ritualist is supposted to do best?

Or did you mean Spawning Power and not Soul Reaping?

You dont even need group of all necromancers, just 1 necro MM. I had fun having army of undead, henched most the missions in Tyria and Cantha. Nowadays Olias or Master of Whisper can do better job at that "spamming buttons" build.

If anyone is whining, as you accused me of doing, it's you and the PVE community in general. Just look at the SR thread for proof of that.

Limiting professions is NOT a good idea as you claim. As I said before, it doesnt fix skills that are imbalanced to begin with. Those skills will still have to be balanced. Only a relative handful of gimmick builds require a full team of the same profession.

Limiting professions is unnecesarily restrictive and pointless and just a bandaid short term fix. You cannot get around skill balance with a heavy handed "fix" like that.

My favourite solution is:

Soul reaping - ene gain on minion (1/2) / person death (full)
Spawning - ene gain on spirit death (1/4 of sp ranks)
- you have to choose what you do - either have pitifull but steady energy from spirits, or have spike energy gain that is uncertain.

Or VIABLE counter against soul reaping. Take couple of mesmer skills that currently see little of meta and buff em like this:

Soothing Images

For 8...18 seconds, target foe and all adjacent foes cannot gain adrenaline and cannot gain energy related to deaths.
(AP, SR, reapers mark ... count)

Its aoe hex, it has decet utility outside SR denial, fair recharge ratio too...

OR:

Shared Burden

Elite Hex Spell. For 3...14 seconds, target foe and all nearby foes move 50% slower and their energy gain from deaths is limited to adjacent creatures.
- make it worthy of elite.

or:

Visages:

For 4...9 seconds, whenever target ally is hit by a melee attack, all adjacent foes lose all adrenaline and 3 Energy. Foes withing earshot and line of sight and target ally do not trigger energy gain on death for their allies.
(you have spirit in earshot and line of sight, if it dies while you have visage on you, no hostile enemy will gain energy from that, but your allied will, counterable with enchant removal, not possible 24/7, still decent utility outside sr counter ...)

People didn't complain about not having a minon cap either, which was insanely imbalanced.

And by manage your energy, i mean using it more carefully, and actualy worrying about your energy level (like other professions have to) instead of constantly spamming. My necro manages fine with the update to soul reaping. In it's current state, Soul Reaping is still one of the more powerful primary attributes, especialy when compared to something like Strength.

Back on toipc,

Idealy, Spawning Power does need a buff to make it more apealing.

The "30% chance the spirit just dies, and a 26% chance the spirit will turn against thier team " would proberbly just stop people from using spirits altogther though.

It's called a typo. After all, it is now 5:30am here. Typo fixed now, thanks.

I guarantee you, nothing but skill balances will help deal with gimmicks. Whether it's a balanced team, a rainbow sort of spike, or a team with 8 of one single profession, there will always be gimmick builds. Why? Because people want easy fame/rank and people will use them because that's what works. If there's overpowered skills, no matter the profession or abundance of that profession in the party, they will still be overpowered unless the skills themselves are changed. All you will achieve by limiting the number of a single profession would be to further limit people.

I'm not sure when "having a different opinion" became "trolling", but okay. If you say so.

I guess you missed the memo about 55 necros?

I don't think that was trolling, nor was it a flame. Do you have an affinity for those words or something? I think it was a legitimate question and it's not derailing the topic, really, as it is in direct response to part of why Gaile has said that SR was nerfed in the first place. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's wrong.

Really, if something is overpowered in PvE, who complains? To suggest that the other classes will complain about it is, frankly, a bit ridiculous. I don't exactly agree that it was powerful for PvE, because it's PvE, for god's sake but assuming for a second it was, there's no reason for other players to complain, as suggested, because what someone else is doing isn't hurting your gameplay. Who's left to complain, but the AI? We all know they can't complain.

Um yeah. Because I disagree with you, I'm a troll. And apparently so is everyone else who disagrees with you. Sorry but this is a forum where people are free to disagree whether you like it or not.

As for why a profession limit is bad. Read my previous post. Or read ExplodeMyHeart's post.

My suggestion on how to fix the issues? Balancing the skills of course. But it seems that you can't accept that. So I guess that makes me a troll again.

It wouldn't limit any balanced group much at all would it? It would stop teams of all N/X from "Vampiric Gaze"ing someone at once and things like that. Nobody ever said limiting to no more than 3 of each primary profession on a team would stop all gimmicks and would no longer require skills balances. It would hender gimmick builds without destroying them and isn't that goal?



Read again what was responded. They were trolling with comments like, "And not surprisingly, it's PVE players that come up with it."



No, but all I've seen are a varient of the 'Monk 55' and never seen the Necro 55 being that popular. Only see bots using M/W or M/Me all the time and seen most of the boss farming ones as anything but Necro. Not saying that there isn't a necro one just that others are used more since they seem to work better.



[QUOTE=explodemyheartI don't think that was trolling, nor was it a flame. Do you have an affinity for those words or something? I think it was a legitimate question and it's not derailing the topic, really, as it is in direct response to part of why Gaile has said that SR was nerfed in the first place. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's wrong.[/QUOTE]
One it was completely off topic as it didn't deal with what the post was about. Yes I'm aware this is off topic as well because of having to keep going through the same motions with people rather than them also posting helpful advise. If ti is a different point of veiw of what would work then thats also good as long as it is helpful toward arena net. Just comming in here and complaining about people trying to help come up with solutions isn't doing anything at all but taking the topic away from what is it supposed to be about. She said it was nerfed because of Spirit and Minion Spamming and everyone's hero Ensign has also admitted it was a PvP nerf, not a PvE nerf.

Tell me something, why would they complain? They are simply programs, i.e. not real. The game is supposed to be fun and you know what you do in PvE? You kill the AI, be it for the fun of killing it or a mission or a quest or just wondering around an area but you kill the AI. What about the AI that wants to complain about all the players killing him with their team of Monk, Elementlist, and Tank because of a quest or because he has a nifty weapon? Using something like "If the AI could complain" is nothing more than an amusing joke in a game.

Try to pay attention. At no point did I say you were a troll because you disagree with me. Re-read what I said. I"ll even quote it just for you.
I even made sure in my post to you to point that out the first time so do try to pay more attention, ok?

As far as skills would still needing balanced, that is a given as I even said in my privious post if you bothered to fully read it. Skills would still need to be balanced as things arise; however, the limit would only hender gimmick builds without hurting balanced teams and could help limit the number of skills constantly needed balanced.

Suggesting "Balance the Skills" doesnt' help much with the issue of the Soul Reaping+Spirit Spamming issue as Arena Net has tried several times now with no luck, hence this thread. How about posting which skills you think need balanced and how to balance them rather than simply saying "balance the skills."

And I say again. How does that make me a troll? My reference to PVE players was that I was saying that I wasnt surprised that it was PVE players making suggestions to limit PVP play. So tell me again how I was flaming?

And your theory about limiting professions still doesnt make sense. It would not limit the number of skills that would need balance. If a skill is overpowered then it needs balancing.

Overpowered builds revolve from overpowered skills and so you have teams built with them in mind. It's not the other way around. It's not like those skills are suddenly overpowered because there are a few copies in a team.

I wasn't aware of the fact that this game was specifically meant to be played with balanced teams. If a team wants to have 3 monks for heal/prot and 4th for a smiter, they should be able to do it. The skill balances are what will keep a team of 3+ of any 1 profession from being an overpowering team, balanced or not.

The overpowerment is not necessarily in the fact that a team is made up of entirely 1 profession. It lies in the broken skills (or in this case, SR). A balanced group can be just as powerful as a group of all of one profession.

Let's take a rainbow spike, for example. Assume there'll be 2-3 monks for the heal/prot so that leaves us 5-6 people of various other professions with which to coordinate a spike. All of those people will have one skill with which to spike with, probably a second skill to follow up with if need be.

If the people are all on Vent together, someone is calling correctly, they have enough damage for the spike and people don't suck, their spike won't necessarily be more or less powerful than a group of 5-6 spiking paragon, or rits, or eles.

What you're suggesting would not hinder gimmick builds. Period. It would change them, that's it. As soon as Anet destroys one gimmick, another will pop up. That's why constant skill balances are absolutely necessary. I absolutely guarantee you that if Anet were to limit 3 of one profession to a single party there would be just as many gimmick builds as there were before. Thus, the only thing that would be achieved, is limiting the players.

From reading your posts, I have a feeling that you don't do PvP much, if at all. If you did, you would understand what I'm saying.

By the way, hender is not a word.

Simply calling him a troll does not make him one. Just because he posted something like that does not mean he was intentionally trying to provoke. It means he was posting what he felt. He might have been trying to provoke, he might also have been geniune.

He also has a point. If you read through all of these threads, you'll find many, many people speaking completely from the PvE point of view. Not only that, but stating that they don't care what happens to PvP, as long as it doesn't ruin their precious PvE.

Just because you didn't see them doesn't mean they didn't exist. I know quite a large number of people that had and still have all of the gear for 55 necroing, and still do it on occasion.

The whole point is that this is the 9.7 millionth thread on the topic. There is one thread devoted specifically to it. There have been countless suggestions made for Anet in that thread. Another one is not necessary. It's redundant, annoying, and does not accomplish anything.

I'm sorry you continually fail to grasp the point.

The entire point is that the AI CANNOT COMPLAIN. If something is overpowered in PvE, there is nobody to complain about it. That's why "I don't remember ever seeing anyone complain about it being over powered in PvE before" is not a valid argument. Because there is nobody to complain.

No, why would it be overpowered in pve, when monsters fall every second giving necros huge, endless amount of energy
Even investing 5 miserable points into SR gives every energy you need in pve
This SR talk is pathetic, but ppl who try to defend it "ooh it wasn't overpowered in pve" are...
No words for it, because I don't want to offend others

Re..rds

Yet PvP players want to limit PvE because they feel something is over powered in PvE? Besides with how the game is, the change would be for both PvP and PvE. As for you being a troll you have only berated PvE players in this thread and the Soul Reaping one.

Yet some skills are over powered because multiple primary professions use them. Is that not the primary reason "Incomming" was hit? I've been out of the loop on the Paragon bit so do correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Yet the skill balances nor the Soul Reaping nerf has done much of anything to Necro/Rits aside from teaching them how to count to 5. As for the balanced group being capable of being just as if not more powerful I fully agree with you but the balanced one takes more skill, correct? Isn't this game supposed to be the Player Skill over the Skill Bar? Oh, as a side note that is a bit off topic, I truely would love to see a smiting monk in PvP. Not the all monks using maintained enchantments on each other while using "Signet of Mystic Wrath."

But 'hinder' is a word. I wasn't aware spelling errors were forbidden.

As for the first part, I would be inclided to go along with that if not for the majority fo his/her posts in the Soul Reaping topic.
As for the second part, what about the PvP that dont' care about PvE as long as it doesn't ruin their PvP enjoyment? Many people are in speaking from a PvE point of view because the Soul Reaping nerf wasn't good for PvE and it appearantly didn't stop the Spirit Spammers in PvP either.

Just read what I said. " Not saying that there isn't a necro one just that others are used more since they seem to work better. " I not entirely sure how to make that clearer to you. I played a Necro 55 before but found it dull as farming is just plain dull to me.

What is redundant, annoying, and does not accomplish anything is going through this tango with the same people would aren't trying to come up with helpful suggestions but rather prefer to try and berate people. Look at the Soul Reaping thread and you see people arguing about anything but what it is there for now. Look at what this one turned into. This thread wasn't just about Soul Reaping either but about Spirits and Ritualists' Spawning Powers.

I'm sorry you continue to fail to grasp the concept. It does not matter if they can or not, why would they complain about the necro when some have necro's with them and OTHER professions are wipping them out more than anything.
The whole thing of "AI CANNOT COMPLAIN" is not a valid argument either as other professions are soloing them or duo farming them more commonly. You see Monk/Warrior and Monk/Mesmer farmers more than anything else. Does anyone complain? How was the Soul Reaping messing up others in PvE before the nerf? Arena Net supposedly players their own game so why wasn't Soul Reaping fixed in the two+ years it's been around? Thing is, Mo/W and Mo/Me slaughters more AI than a necro so the "AI CANNOT COMPLAIN" when talking about the Necro is kinda moot isn't it?

Alright, the fact is SR was overpowered in PvP and PvE. Seriously, find energy management through skills. As a monk I am always searching for new energy management, because we have no good primary profession E-management skills. The professions that don't have an energy-related primary attribute have to learn to cope and use skills to successfully manage our energy (that could be primary, or secondary profession skills). If you can't run successful builds with SR's current state: you are doing something wrong.

Go play monk for a while and realize you can't pump out skills whenever you want, you have to watch your energy and only use skills when needed. Many PvE necros simply need to adjust. Throughout the game they have been able to pump out skills without needing to worry about the little blue bar; now that they are receiving the message "Not Enough Energy": instead of learning to watch it, and bringing skills to help manage it, they are complaining that they are now unplayable. So not true.

Gimmicks are, and always will be, a part of PvP game play. The only way to stop them is to nerf skills; not parties. I'll just...
QFT

the fact of the matter was it seams IMHO that there was a such a outcry that SR was so over powered by both PvP and the PvE community that after so long that Anet desides to look into it, however the answer a timer on a primary attrubite to a class.
There have been many arguement both for the nerf and against, we really dont need to go down that road again, was there concern with sr (most likely) was this the answer to it (proberly not) are we as necros now stuck (yep) will we survive (most likely its just a game right)

I do think people exaggerate the soul reaping nerf. People like to complain and while I do try to read people's post, i'm trying to find the reason why this thread was created. But this thread is more like a bitch fest if anything. And Alderin, you got what was coming for you from your first post. People who dislike the SR nerf, just need to move on.

I agree with the original poster on everything said!

A 3-per-team limit would have saved the Paragon. =(

You really love the world troll, don't you?

Like I said before, just because you call someone a troll doesn't mean they are one. And guess what? I PVE TOO! GASP!

Then other skills took the popularity place. Skill balances are the only way to deal with gimmicks.

There's only so many ways it can be said.

I'm not suggesting the change to SR was ideal and that it shouldn't be dealt with in a different way. I guarantee I know better than you do that the ultimate problem was not fixed.

In my opinion, no, the balanced team is not always more skilled. A rank 9 blood spike group will be better, more often than not, a rank 3 blood spike group. The same goes for balanced. Skill over skillbar.

You'd love to see a smiter monk in PvP? That there just shows your absolute inexperience on the matter that you shouldn't even be arguing anyway.


Don't get your panties in a wad, there. Hender is not a word, you used it many times, I was simply pointing out that you were incorrect. I'm sorry that you live in a world where you have to get defensive when someone points out a mistake rather than, you know, learning from it and moving on.


Those people are stupid too. However, at the moment that's not what I'm talking about so your point is moot.

It has obviously already been generally agreed that the change to SR was not ideal. It did not please a lot of people and it did not fix the problem.

Helpful suggestions have already been given. Several of them. Some of them even several times! I'm not sure if you just get bored of reading, I realize that the other SR thread is pretty long, but they're all there.

I don't know what more you want. Suggestions have been given. Anet is aware of it, as Gaile, at the very least, has been following it. Opening another topic on the subject and saying that nobody is giving suggestions is absolute nonsense. Maybe your post is not getting the constructive advice that you wanted because it doesn't need it. The other thread has the necessary suggestions.


It is you who does not grasp the concept. Reading comprehension tells you that I agree it does not matter that the AI cannot complain. "AI cannot complain" is not my argument, at least not all of it and certainly not the point.

Again, read carefully. You might want to start from the beginning.

If something is overpowered in PvE, there is nobody to complain about it. The AI doesn't, because the AI can't. If the AI can't, that would only leave the actual PvE players. Except... when something is overpowered in PvE, the PvE players don't complain! Something being overpowered in PvE simply lets them complete their goal faster, there's nothing to compain about.

You're like a brick wall. Not only that, but you've demonstrated very little knowledge about PvP. I don't know about you, but my momma taught me a long time ago that if you don't know about something, you don't argue about it vehemently because it makes you look like an ass.

Suggestions have been given. Anet is aware of the suggestions. A change may or may not be made.

Actually, likely not the truth.

6v6, running 3 paragons, you could set up a team in such a way that nobody could be killed unless someone slacked on the job. Even then, if one paragon temporarily slacked (whether purposely or because they were interrupted or knocked down or what have you), the other 2 could hold the team up long enough for the other paragon to get it back together.

I think some dev had an half arsed idea on how to stop the spirit exploit and is too proud to revert back to the previous status quo and reduce spirit energy gained. The fact that the change did not help the situation with the exploit is proof of the problem. I am wondering if an elementalist would not make a better necromancer or mesmer even. I will run my ele as an ss necro and see how well she goes.

I appreciate the spirit in which this thread was made, but it will degenerate into PvP vs. PvE and has all ready deteriorated into flames. Please keep discussion on Soul Reaping to this thread:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10139355