Hard Mode - Thumbs Up/Down? (First Impressions and more)

bog scales are a bit much now (major hex spam... spiteful spirit and price of failure, plus 3 cover hexes), but the rest has been pretty fun so far... mastered great northern gate and imperial sanctum, and vanquished scoundrels rise and griffon's mouth

Its hard, but... fun. I just did the first 3 Tyrian missions and its been ok. Great money too

Thumbs up from me. I took some heroes into Old Ascalon and earned myself a point towards Vanquisher. I tried out a Lockpick, too.

The mobs are kind of surprising at first (Crippling Anguish, Healing Hands, and Skull Crack are a few notable extra skills) but still not very strong (likely just the Ascalon junk, I'll try harder mobs later). I was disappointed that the bosses that early on still do not have elite skills. They should since you have to beat the game just to even *try* hard mode, and it might make them harder.

All in all, I did have fun and that's the point. It's still not quite there, but it's awful dang close.

[EDIT]
Nope. In fact I specifically took my Sword Ranger to try this out. Hell, I made Acolyte Jin an Axe Ranger for kicks. Olias as MM is normal for me, but that was hax to begin with. Tahlkora with a Prot build rounds me out. I only came even close to a wipe once, and that was because of 3 Crown of Thorns and a single Shatter Gargoyle. Olias brought us back from the brink all by himself.

I just tried SS, I'm sure that won't last but boy is that fun. Some of the AI seems to get confused. I used it on a group of 3 casters and they just completely stopped using any type of spell. Good for a laugh

Thumps Up

I've so far done 2 missions with my friends. I love the fact that you HAVE TO bring caster disarment or else x.x. So far my Broadheaded Arrow ranger is coming in handy but I'm wondering how a mesmer is doing in this situation.

Before you judge hard mode I want you to ask yourself ONE SIMPLE QUESTION "am I doing ANYTHING different then when I do this on normal mode)

I've actually been having a pretty rough time in Twin Serpant's Lake. The first mob you run into, which is also unavoidable, is a mob of four Mergoyles and four Bog Skales. Then you get stuck with those two mobs of Tengu who run at you from both sides.

While they're not using those crazy skills we saw a few weeks ago, they are pretty super powerful.

Yea, it's almost as if anet wants players to buy gold. Since anyone knows that like 100g split among 8 gives you an ammount of gold that's equal to a joke.

I did a quick run in the North Kryta Province with my mesmer.

Tengu mesmers are packing Ineptitude, fire imps have got Rodgort's Invocation, and Bog Skales have got Spiteful Spirit. It all seemed pretty good on that area, however I don't really understand why they made the hard mode enemies cast faster, my mesmer was pretty much useless there with my standard interrupt build. You are probably better off with skills like Guilt and Shame.

The thing is, this will make mesmers even less desired in PvE, unless they indeed have some super duper buffs coming later. What gives?

Thumbs Way Down.

I have effectively monked Hells Precipice and Gates of Madness SOLO. Yet, monking with my basic set in Fort Ranik with 4 people, and we died countless times, not to mention Char with Eviscerate+Wild Blow combo= instant death for casters. Quite lame, hell, it was almost killing the warrior...

Also tried farming at the Dead Sword spot. I made 81 gold and 25 bones. Awesome. I've never been a heavy solo farmer, matter of fact, I love group farms, but, when I want some new armor, or weapons, I always solo a bit, just to make the cash a little faster...this update ruined that.

The AI enchancement is awesome, BUT, just increasing Casting, Atk and Move Speed by 50% and throwing an elite in, and knocking the attributes to 20 is pretty stupid. I cant even begin to imagine what later missions such as Abaddons Mouth and Gates of Madness are going to be like on Hardmode...and Glint..dear lord, help us all.

I've sat by, and accepted most updates, since most, do have some merit. The AoE update way back, really sucks, but, it has merit. Mobs shouldnt stand in Searing Flames, Meteor Shower and Firestorm like idiots, thats common sense, but this update..is just Ew.

My idea of a good hardmode? Level 20+ Monsters, Complete Revamped Foe Skillbars, Enhanced AI. Thats it. Keep the 50% extra XP if you want, but 50% on Casting and Speed is really lame. Was hard enough for Mesmers to get groups before, now, going to be near impossible since the every skill used by foes is effectively instantly cast.

Heck, I can imagine it now. Groups for missions like The Wilds and the later, are going to be REQUIRING 3 monks and a MM. lol

Was really looking forward to this, but...Im sorry Anet, but just current form of HM, is really..lame.

Thumbs up. It brings new challenge and I like that, not much else to say though.

Okay I have more to say. First off mesmers do have more skills than interrupt. Clumsiness, Crippling Anguish, Conjure Phantasm, Shame, Guilt, Empathy, Ineptitude, Backfire, Frustration, Arcane Langour, Shatter Hexes, Shatter Enchantments..so I don't know how you can say mesmers don't have a place.

Also, this is a challenge for a lot of people, and some people have easy time. My Dunkoro, doesn't kite at all, just stands there and get's attacked. None of my casters kite either, so it's hard in Old Ascalon, especially when 5 hits can take Dunkoro out now, because he wasn't kiting.

Yeah the fast casting and attacking of mobs killed mesmers! Its not like mesmers have spells that hurt the enemy a ton each time they attack or cast a spell! oh, wait...

Thumbs way up. PvE has been easy mode for sooo long, its fun to actually have to think a little bit.

gogo Anet.

Yep. My Master of Whispers was rippin' through those devourers and grawl in Old Ascalon. Also, the hulking stone elementals don't actually use hammers - Dwarven Battle Stance does not interrupt. They don't use shields either since the boss's Shield Stance doesn't actually block anything. Heh.

Wiped once in Old Ascalon. You can't run from groups, so you may as well take out as many as you can before going down. Stupid Putrid Explosion...

The thing is, it's much better to bring another SS than use something like Empathy.

I'll be impressed if people get guardian title for Factions.

15 minutes to kill a Grawl Ulodyte in Hard Mode.

15 minutes to kill a Grawl Ulodyte who has unlimited energy.

15 minutes to kill a Grawl Ulodyte who skills have 0 second recharge.

15 minutes to kill a Grawl Ulodyte who is by itself.

15 minutes to kill a Grawl Ulodyte who just spammed Heal Area and Healing Hands constantly.

15 minutes to kill a Grawl Ulodyte who couldn't be interrupted... and I take pride in my interrupting ability.

15 minutes to kill a Grawl Ulodyte with a Ranger, Warrior, SF Nuker and Monk, the usual party setup.

15 minutes to kill a Grawl Ulodyte period.


This is fun for you people? Wow... just wow. I know I already posted once on the matter, but Hard Mode is a gigantic disappointment. Hard Mode is indeed an apt name, for after just 15 minutes of playing in it you'll be looking for a hard, blunt object to end your misery with.

I was hoping for true skill, tactics and strategy, not mobs that are 10 levels above mine with attributes jacked sky high. Mobs that can do 300+ damage by just looking at my characters. This is a joke.

I brought rending touch on my warrior and he was dead in <8 seconds.

I actually agree wholeheartedly here. I was running an MM, Burning Arrow ranger, and a Crippling Slash Warrior and we could not kill the damn thing for about 5 minutes. You notice I said Crip Slash war right? Couldn't even catch up to the thing to snare it...

I think the new challenge is nice personally, but I do NOT think that nerfing solo farming is the way to go... so many people will be angry, and they have a reason to. I for one am stocking up on ecto's as we speak, because god only knows what kind of prices they are going to reach...

So far I like it.

I cleared the first area out side of Ascalon - for the Vanquisher title I'm going to *hate* hidden enemies. But it has been a long time since I've had to worry about an actual party wipe in that area. Got two golds, three purples, and about 2.5k in gold drops (over all about 4.5k in drops). If I didn't already pretty much have everyone equipped the way I want (including heroes) there were at least one gold and one purple would have been used, even though they are not inscribable (had hoped all hard mode drops would be - oh well). Also, now that the area isn't "too easy for the rewards" maybe non-tyrians can get the Ascalon skill quests in hard mode? (ahh, one can dream huh?)

[edit]This took about an hour and 15 minutes - 235 enemies. I was a Dervish (with a crappy build, not knowing what I was going to face I left the last skill bar I had on and it was about as bad as if I had just randomly picked skills), I had Acolyte Sosuke as a SF ele and Mark of Rodgort, Tahlkora as an RC prot monk, and Margrid the Sly as a plain b/p ranger and her pet (an aggressive lion) - all weapons did fire damage to trigger mark of rodgort. Never had a party wipe, no one ever below 15%dp, and a little over 15 freaking minutes of that hour and 15 minutes trying to find the last enemy on the map. See attached image for screen of the end.

Tried a run through the margonites in the domain of secrets, didn't make it through on a "normal build". I'll have to adjust from the standard, more than rank 4 in lightbringer will most likely help also.

And, lastly, killed all the elementals outside of Dzoganur Bastion - seemed just about right to me. Almost old RoT difficulty (Ruby djinns *really* hit hard, it will be interesting to go see how the ruby djinn boss hits). Plus with 6LB/kill should be able to hit rank 5/6 without too much trouble. Though for some reason it informed me when I had killed 25 elementals - I suppose something to do with the 6 addition points you get for killing a boss being capped at 150?

It will still take more time to decide, need to play some missions and a larger number of areas.

Undecided over the solo farming nerf - since Nightfall I have done very little of it. I can understand doing that in hard mode (especially given how easy some areas would be to prot spirit farm), but I would rather have had normal mode left alone in that regard. Ah well, I make more than enough to feed all my characters just goofing off and hard mode only increases the gold.

I support the solo farming nerf. just wish it came 2 years ago. keep in mind that stuff will drop MORE in full groups now.

I have only done the first 4 prophecies missions in hard mode and a couple clearable areas in late Nightfall so I can't say a ton...but...the monsters have much more realistic skills bars. It isn't always the perfect combination, but its a lot better than it used to be. The new set up makes classes that rarely saw much action in PvE extremely viable (Mesmer casts a Diversion on a Charr Shamen -> it will die instantly). High monster damage really isn't a problem...anet has about a half dozen skills in the game to counter it. Pattern? Instead of using horrible builds off guild wiki, you now have a game that encourages you to have half decent builds and enough awareness to know how to use skills correctly. I have never been a fan of fast cast because it discourages interruption/skill, but eh. There are a ton of skills in the game to get around that. It just means you can't C+Space and expect to win...something the majority of GW players have gotten away with for a long time...learn2play?

There are always ppl who don't like stuff Anet adds and come here to complain.

I don't see the problem here, if you find it to hard... then play normal mode.

I love this update, it is hard, it needs teamwork and that is what the community needs, we dont need stronger hero's, we need more connection between real ppl (yes I know many PUG's can be so irritating, but still it is my point of view that in an online game there needs to be alot of interaction between all the ppl)

nice job Anet really cool update

I <3 Hard Mode!!!

I'm enjoying hard mode. I've done missions and vanquished a few explorables on each continent, just to get the titles started.

I was happy to find all my regular haunts were still doable, even the Torment and DoA ones.

I thought I was managing okay with my Domination mesmer and henchmen until I tried Mourning Veil Fails (starting at Amatz) - that was in another league of hardness; I took me an hour to get 40 kills into it before I had to stop. It's going to take me 4 hours to vanquish. Part of the problem is groups can spawn on top of each other, with surprise Oni in there too.

this is quite fun..harder than i expected it be .
old ascalon was bloody hard...considering u have 4 players aswell

Plains of Jarin wasnt too bad and ive done NF first mission - was surprsingly funny

We certainly were. Quit playing Nightfall upon reaching the entirely unfunly hard Desolation in Nightfall, and I'm not alone.

People may think Hard Mode is too hard, and they may think Normal mode is too easy. So they have a dillemma. That's kind of what I'm going through right now.

Can we stop calling it 'normal' mode... They debuffed it that much its now an 'easy' mode.

They've buffed the enemies too much without thinking at all about the size of there mobs in some areas. I want to run a fun build and be able to clear it... not be forced into B-surger or Nuker, SS only, 'tank', etc.

Just entered Issnur Isles... how the hell is that fun? The first mandragor mob i came upto. Headbutt spikes with Stoning/Ebon Hawk been spammed from the backline. Any defensive measures... instantly removed by the Chilblains been spammed every few seconds.

Thumbs up to the difficulty level.

Thumbs down to the drop rate, quality of drops, farming nerf, and lockpicks (VERY disappointed with lockpicks).

If you think that the difficulty level is comperable to the original DoA, then you either didn't even try DoA, or you are not good at this game. It is challenging, yes....power block owned us all on the 2nd mission...I will have to tweak my skillbar, yes...but if you expected to get through the mission every time without dying, how is that hard mode?

They didn't have to make the entire game easier just because NF's end-game areas are tedious crap. They could have tweaked only those areas.

Tried Ft Ranik for grins. The char can attack so fast now.. ROFL. Zero cool down, no recharge.. Tweaking is truly needed. OR give us the same abilities in hard mode. I hit on Char warrior 3 times he hit me like 10 or 12 LOL And the heroes being better armored etc, well they died in a few seconds and I have taken them thru end game missions just fine.

Damn, this sucks! I was in Sunward Marches, only a few mobs left in the castle in the center, including the Acolyte of Lyssa. It's hard to get it killed with the whole party on dp. After a few tries we die again, and I don't res anymore! I forgot about the whole 60%DP-No res thing. That was like 350 mobs

wow, seriously I cant believe people are having problems in not high end areas of the game.

this proves yet again how bad pvers are at this game.sry but your flare spam rangers wont work in Hard Mode.

Try Bohdabi the Destructive in the Sulfurous Wastes

GLF Obsidian Tank, SF Nukes, SS, SB/HB monk and bonder FTW!

Hard mode:

Difficulty level: Just about where I expected it. Thumbs up.

Drops: Sucks really. Mostly 1 or 2 whites. I would be very surprised if this is not a bug. The update notes says the drops are suppose to be better but after hours of trying it last night killing well over 100+ monsters in an area, I have not noticed a difference in monster drop quality between normal and hard mode. Thumbs down.

Heroes/Hench AI: They should look into the heroes AI problem, for hard mode. Thumbs down.

No defensive measures? Try a warder maybe? Or is the very thing you complained about (cookie cutter builds) making you blind to any other builds?

No I actually agree with him. Me and my girlfriend have been experimenting with numerous builds and we've still found the most effective to be the cookie-cutter Obs. flesh, nukers, bonder build.

Hard mode was added to please those that were bored with the game. I figure now the loot in normal mode will not be worth picking up, and only hard made will see decent loot. That way they defeat bots (too hard for bots to last long enough).

That said, I think it's just time for me to find another game. I just have no real reason to play anymore. Guild is basically dead and gone, friends in game have moved on, and it's just not fun anymore. Mainly because of my friends being gone.

It wasn't only those areas, but that was a good example. How fun is the game when any AoE skill is useless (another example)? Most casual players will have no connection to forums/wikis to know about the AoE flee crap, especially after the Pre-Sear elementalist training for firestorm tells you how and when to use it! They've made the back into what it should be, and separate their hacks for "hardcore gamers" off into hard mode. (I'm still "mostly thumbs up for the overall, with a few big fat thumbs down for some parts".)

Thumbs up for the most part.

Henchmen aren't very buffed at all though and pretty much retarded to my heroes.. (my monk hereos have MUCH better skills bars; i.e., hex removal and useful heals :P)