First of all Anet, THANKS FOR THE UPDATE... it is by far my favorite of any that you have released thus far.
That said, I'm noticing some incredible difficulty in finding groups for hard mode, namely that the "trinity" of MMORPGS has become much more essential for missions.
Most groups I see are looking for warriors, elementalists, and monks. While some other classes will occassionally be substituted (like how SS is still pretty good), some classes, such as mesmer and assassin, are being completely left out.
I'll be thinking this over and eventually writing a proposed solution in the suggestions area, but at the moment, I want to know if anyone else is witnessing the same thing?
If it was hard to get a group before, it is harder in hard mode
Tozen
Bryant Again
While I haven't looked for a group - I played with guildies and a few friends - I can understand why Assassins aren't wanted, at least. I tried playing with my assassin in NF, and I'm pretty much getting two-shot'd-wtfpwnd.
Narcism
Assassins are not pve characters.
If you still don't get a group, learn how to sell yourself in allchat to get a group.
If you still don't get a group, learn how to sell yourself in allchat to get a group.
Mordakai
To be expected, I suppose. I'm waiting for the promised Mesmer buff to play my mesmer again, and anyway, I have more than enough titles to try and earn with my Warrior at the moment...
Samurai-JM
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by Narcism
Assassins are not pve characters.
...
Darth Kukulkan
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Originally Posted by Narcism
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Says the warrior, narrow minded as usual. THANK YOU OH WISE WARRIOR FOR YOUR VERY INTELLIGENT COMMENT !
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If you still don't get a group, learn how to sell yourself in allchat to get a group.
And if you the Warrior still don't get a brain, then... No I know just go play WoW please there is a sufficient amount of moron already in GW, now just quit this is better for the community not to have such ignorant players. I thank you in advance.  maybe you will find a game where you can fully express your unlimited potential, such as... let's say tetris, or pokemon ? maybe, maybe... I think sins just have to snob you
Marth Reynolds
Assasins are as much PvE characters as PvP, they are however better at killing single targets. And let it happen that in PvP the ability to kill as fast a assasin can is of good use, while in pve the focus is more on area damage as SS and Searin Flames.
And if youre getting two shot killed consider this, "Is it really the class that is bad or do i not yet knwo how to play it properly?" Try Feigned Nuetralliy and Shadow refuge for example they should work really well.
clawofcrimson
less flames please...
The OP has a good point... if the mesmer is experiencing less play... how does hard mode help? I guess we will just have to wait and see.
Silly Warrior
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Originally Posted by clawofcrimson
less flames please...
The OP has a good point... if the mesmer is experiencing less play... how does hard mode help? I guess we will just have to wait and see. We don't quite know yet, I'm guessing builds will come out for harder areas in hard mode, but mesmors may create a build that works perfectly for hard mode. We just don't know yet, maybe they will be totally left out, or perhaps they will find a huge purpose and be highly wanted. Keep in mind hard mode is harder...and builds and cookie-cutters WILL come out. Hopefully, Sins, Mes, Derv, and Paragon's will all find their place in this new form of gameplay. pingu666
paragons with stand your ground and watch yourself maybe really good, if its armour respecting damage the mobs do.
from what ive read, mesmers might wanna run power return, empathy, backfire, some energy management, optional skills (energy burn or whatever) heal, res. but thats what i normaly run now...
Guardian of the Light
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Originally Posted by pingu666
paragons with stand your ground and watch yourself maybe really good, if its armour respecting damage the mobs do.
from what ive read, mesmers might wanna run power return, empathy, backfire, some energy management, optional skills (energy burn or whatever) heal, res. but thats what i normaly run now... Shame, Guilt and Drain enchantment could be good e-management options and also having an enchantment removal can be useful against skills like Healing Hands and Shield of Judgement
heroajax1
I'll take all the mesmers in my groups. It's just nubs that don't understand how they truly help a group who don't want them.
Patrick Smit
This was to be expected, rasing the stats of monsters really didnt help the unfavored profs to get in groups. People just reckon that they need to buff their damage too.
Now if Anet would have taken the alternative path and the enemies would have more balanced makeups and better behavior, making AI spread groups quickly and making brainless hexes useless then that would have been a good call. So an SSed mob would move out of the group and start harrassing enemies without damaging its own partners in crime. When they would meet a frost build they would target the winter and GC when they are set up, or even interupting them. That would have been real hard mode. No gimmicks, true play.
Silly Warrior
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Originally Posted by heroajax1
I'll take all the mesmers in my groups. It's just nubs that don't understand how they truly help a group who don't want them.
Correct, but if your in a group of four in an Ascalon mission, are you going to choose a mesmor?
No! A normal group is going to have 1 monk, SF ele, Warrior of some type, or a ranger with epidemic. Or something like that, the point is that the minority professions will find it impossible to do hard mode with people, since people won't open up unless better builds come out the future. I just hope the GW:EN allows this all to happen.
Perfected Shadow
I shudder at the thought of HM missions where you have to protect some damned NPC(s), actually tried one and failed miserably...
Players are already spread thin across three campaigns, now even more with hard mode and normal mode, finding a group is very difficult, finding one if you're not a warrior, monk, ele, or necro would be close to impossible.
Div
What else is new? Mesmers and sins suck in the typical pug because they can't find a good use for them. Nevertheless, their specialty in focusing on one target makes them a lot more pvp oriented than pve.
Railin
Finding a mesmer in a mission town that doesn't have a useless build is hard. :| Just accepting any mesmer without checking their builds would probably end up in a wipe sooner or later.
GloryFox
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Originally Posted by Narcism |
Assassins are not pve characters. I just love people who comment like this it says a lot about them. I must admit of all of my characters the Assassin has proved over and over again to be the most effective class at killing in PvE. Nothing kills faster than an Assassin. There is simply no reason for the hate. You must understand Assassin hate is the direct result of the factions monster ability Afflicted Soul Explosion. Apart from this monster ability being set off upon death there is no reason to hate assassins like people do. kumarshah
I have seen Assasins in PvE kill bosses to death with their spikes better than any other meele character.
The only problem is when you get the Assasin that doesn't know how to play that profession which is why people don't like having Assasins around in the PUG.
Reiden Argrock
It's all about the skill with those class's, mesmer, sin, and paragon are certainly the hardest, or the least understood in any case. It seems that most people who pick up this class, don't play it long enough to actually understand the usefulness of the class and what they are capable of. They then switch over to another class and only remember their ill fated attempt at these more complicated class's and don't want to risk a spot to one in the group, when all they've experienced is failure.
It all adds up to impatience I think. For my part, all i can say is that I wish I could bring more heroes so I could stick in a sin or mesmer, because they rape casters. [DemoniC][EVL]
Luckily at least rits are seeing a bit more play it seems.
Anet should at least make it so you can take 7 hero's with you. For the 8 player missions. Possibly even allow copies of hero's you have, like taking 4 zhed's for example, or 7 margrids to accompany your ranger for example. Then there would finally be no more need to find people. Anet always said they wanted to give players the choise, well, give it then, cause henchies aren't anything like heroes. I mean, for example doing docks in hard mode, with 3 heroes of level 20, and 4 level 17 henchmen isn't exactly a walk in the park. Now, I'm not saying it should be, but 7 heroes instead of 3 heroes and 4 henchmen would do it for me 
Boris De Pig
Well I was a little shocked when hard mode came out. I decided there were a few key things I wanted to do.
The 2 solo missions and killing Shiro at the end of Factions, because if I couldn't get those done, then there was no chance of a Guardian title. Have you EVER seen 'GLF 1 more 'sin then we go' in an outpost? I was truly shocked... (and ended up doing Raisu Palace about 15-20 times that evening - best time of 1:32 which I was pretty impressed by). The big problem is the areas with restricted party size. As someone previously mentioned non-core classess will struggle in these groups since they do fill specialist niche corners. So far a guild group of Monk, Assassin, Paragon and Elementalist has done OK in the 4-party areas, but it hurts not having the meat shields from an MM, or the crazy death-ness of an SS necro. It just takes longer I guess, and you have to really work with team tactics. I think every class has its strengths and weaknesses, and a badly played character is the biggest problem with most pugs. It still strikes me as hilarious that my KoaBD 'sin can't get into 'normal mode' groups, but my ele, who I admit I am terrible at playing and is probably a hell of a lot less effective, can... Perceptions need to change I guess. BdP
Div
People need to stop giving narcism shit :P
Originally Posted by Reiden Argrock
Just because sins can solo spike something better than any other character doesn't make them good for pve, where AoE damage is much more viable than solo spiking. Them being able to farm greens means nothing in pve teams. What he's trying to get at is that sins don't offer a team anything great to complete a task- they can't tank, they can't do massive AoE damage as well, their dps sucks outside of solo spiking, they're more frail than rangers, yet have to attack close range. Plus, because the majority of sins think they're naruto and decide to suicide themselves into mobs, people would rather take a wammo over them. At least the wammo has 80-100 armor and has self healing... Quote: It all adds up to impatience I think. For my part, all i can say is that I wish I could bring more heroes so I could stick in a sin or mesmer, because they rape casters. |
Now to have fun responding to scrubs:
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And if you the Warrior still don't get a brain, then... No I know just go play WoW please there is a sufficient amount of moron already in GW, now just quit this is better for the community not to have such ignorant players.
I thank you in advance.
maybe you will find a game where you can fully express your unlimited potential, such as... let's say tetris, or pokemon ? maybe, maybe... I think sins just have to snob you
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I just love people who comment like this it says a lot about them. I must admit of all of my characters the Assassin has proved over and over again to be the most effective class at killing in PvE. Nothing kills faster than an Assassin. There is simply no reason for the hate.
You must understand Assassin hate is the direct result of the factions monster ability Afflicted Soul Explosion. Apart from this monster ability being set off upon death there is no reason to hate assassins like people do. I've proved over and over that the sin is the most effective class at dying in PvE as well. Nothing kills faster than a sin? What about a ss or nuker in huge mobs? Warrior's constant DPS with higher armor? Sin hate isn't just from soul explosion, it's from the fact that most sins can't kite for shit when being attacked by 3 monsters at once.
You must understand Assassin hate is the direct result of the factions monster ability Afflicted Soul Explosion. Apart from this monster ability being set off upon death there is no reason to hate assassins like people do. I've proved over and over that the sin is the most effective class at dying in PvE as well. Nothing kills faster than a sin? What about a ss or nuker in huge mobs? Warrior's constant DPS with higher armor? Sin hate isn't just from soul explosion, it's from the fact that most sins can't kite for shit when being attacked by 3 monsters at once.
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Originally Posted by kumarshah
I have seen Assasins in PvE kill bosses to death with their spikes better than any other meele character.
Killing bosses to death faster means what...you have absolutely no argument there for why sins are good in pve groups.
kumarshah
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Originally Posted by holymasamune
Killing bosses to death faster means what...you have absolutely no argument there for why sins are good in pve groups.
It means than when played by someone who knows how to play with a Sin, they can be quite good in PvE. No where do I say, they are better than a nuker or a ss necro. But they are not useless in PvE either.
bungusmaximus
Can you people find groups AT ALL then? I'm often advertising in outposts for people to try hard mode out. I started completing the missions on my necro, thats not an unwanted class at all. I'm not too fond of babysitting hench all the time and I actually like playing with real people better. Theres just no people, 1 hour advertising in Vizunah got me 1 monk. It was an awesome monk, but, just 1 guy? OMG ><
IlikeGW
Just about any class is pretty usable, providing you have a good build for the task at hand.
The real "hard" part about hard mode as has been said, getting a group if you're not guild playing the whole thing. Spura
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Originally Posted by holymasamune
People need to stop giving narcism shit :P
Just because sins can solo spike something better than any other character doesn't make them good for pve, http://www.gwkb.org/cBuild.php?mode=Show&ID=4467 This build outperforms most warriors in terms of tanking/damage. Ensui
I'm having trouble finding groups as well. It surprises me how many people either A: Don't want to do hard mode, or B: Have yet to beat the game. There was a uh.. C:.. situation where a Dervish wanted me to join him for Jokanur but he was forcing me to run the build he wanted and called me a newb for not doing so, then proceeded to insult me for half an hour from the outpost while I beat the mission with Heroes.
Anyhow, to the posters who stated that assassins and mesmers aren't getting any use in Hard Mode, I agree. But only under the circumstance that there aren't any around. I've helped guildies beat a couple missions and I've had to shift away from my monk to use my Assassin to kill things like Shiro, or to kill those stupid runners in Moddok Crevice. Single target destruction is unmatched when it comes to what an Assassin can do, and when everything has such a high level of melee tolerance I don't mind having an Assassin around. Just have to be quick with the Prot. Someone posted earlier that they'd rather overlook a mesmer in the four person areas, like Fort Ranik or Ruins of Surmia. I think that's insane. I never found much of use for Mesmers in PVE, since I would just usually do things like slot Power Drain on Sousuke and Zhed. But with the 100% HCR and HSR that monsters in HM have, it's just not useful for me to do that anymore. I'm using Norgu quite frequently now with spells like Empathy thanks to the IAS that monsters get, and pre-interruption spells like Shame and Mistrust. Having Diversion, Larceny, and Thievery around too has been invaluable with how buff the monks are in HM with HCR and HSR active.
HolyHawk
As a mesmer, I can't really complain. I've been getting into groups for the tyria missions and been doing really well. But it is clear that the holy triad is still as strong as it used to be. I still have yet to see this so called "inclusion" on the pve, but I see that there are more open minded people now.
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