Dear Anet, why mob-cheating in hardmode?

- Faster casting

- Faster recharge

- Faster moving


Dear anet, WHY THE HELL? Why couldn't you add LEVEL 20 MOBS WITHOUT CHEATING BUT A SECOND CLASS ?

That's no fun at all now. Hardmode is just cheating high end area mobs added to low end area. High level mobs... well... were not necessary too.


I was looking forward to real demanding monster groups like those 8er TEAMS in boreas seabed. THOSE are challenging but not cheating at all. They are also resurrecting and seem coordinated. That's real fun but this is not - imho. (I know they don't have a second class either)


What do you think about?

I ...... am ...... really ....... disappointed and won't play hardmode much.


Also:


Receiving a ridiculous amount of >>> 14 <<< gold by killing a cheating level 26 non-boss: PRICELESS (110:8)

hard mode is supposed to "hard" if you want to fight normal mobs fight in normal mode....although I agree that the drops are horrible...kill a lvl 28 mob and you dont even get a max dmg weapon....

Most bosses had half cast, half recharge, double damage in normal mode, anyway.

Hard mode mobs I've encountered (in Prophecies) so far weren't "hard" in the balanced team or balanced build way, but rather hit strong/fast with a weakness. This is a bit more fun IMO than blasting through mobs of balanced teams: once you find a mob's weakness, you'll just rip through it
Balanced teams on the other hand are more of a grind: find the healer, nuke the healer, rinse and repeat. Any skills will do, any team mixture will do.
Hard mode mobs seem a bit different, if you pick a wrong mixture, you'll be going through them slowly (like you would against balanced teams), if you pick the right combo, it'll be a walk in the park. It makes for a wee bit of planning that fighting balanced teams wouldn't offer, which is a Good Thing (tm).

lol supposed to be hard : and why not adding 8 or 6 or 4 mobs of level 20, instead of 3 or 5 of level 26/28 ??? It would be hard too, but it would request a potent AI, which GW doesn't seem to have at ALL ><
And the 50% faster skill activation is a jole, isn't it ? Mesmer already had barely no use in normal mode, now they have some use but they have to interrupt at the seep of light ! Even norgu JUST CAN'T !
I seriously consider quiting the game now

Other than the fact that friendly AI is sometimes screwed by those enemy buffs, it's not that hard to deal with. It's nothing like elite mission "cheaters" that just spike you to the ground and you can't move an inch without planning, not even the same ballpark.

They don't cheat, you just suck.. >>;

Its not too hard, they get a few more skills off, and the movement has only posed a problem wiht me in the wall.. c.c Where you have to like..leave a tank behind and hope he stalls them long enough for someone to make it. "D

Am I the only one who's really enjoying Hard mode?

Yesterday we got some guildies together and did some Factions missions. We, as a pvp-only guild, had a great time.

I agree with the OP. This takes us back to the Nintendo days of hard mode = computer cheating faggotry. I am very disappointed they didn't learn from the mistakes in DOA.

It would've been hard if they'd of actually though the enemy skillbars through. All they've done is build around this retarded power boost. Sickened Moa's spam Primal Rage so it never goes down while attacking at a stupidly fast speed. Hard and lame are very different things. If the only way they can make things 'hard' is by giving the enemies stupidly overpowered effects like the ones they've given every single enemy in hard mode... i don't think i'll bothe with GW2.

The whole concept of 'Hard Mode' is a great one, and I agree that it should be hard, and like to think I don't just come accross as one of the 'Z0mg hard mode is 2 hrd' whiners.

However, Anet created a set of rules for the game. Rules such as a finite energy pool based on class, along with skill activation times, energy costs and recharge rates.

I accept this and enjoy playing within this environment. I further accept that in 'Hard Mode' monsters get double attack speed, double cast speed and double movement speed. Personally I think this is ultimate cheese on the part of Anet and is basically a way of them saying 'we can't possibly make the game harder other than by these ultra-cheese buffs'. In essence, these three things say in giant capital letters 'We failed to make the game hard normally'.

Now, onto this particular rant. As previously mentioned, a set of rules exist that govern the game. In hard mode there are some modifications such as halved casting times etc. This is all fine, but when it really grates is when these rules are IGNORED by monsters.

For example, you cast 'Diversion' on a non-boss creature that is spamming 'Holy Wrath' - this should mean that the next time they cast that spell it's unavailable to them for ~40 seconds, heck, even 20s if they have 'half hex duration'. What you do not expect to see is them casting the very same spell at the same rate AFTER they've been diverted. I mean, come on, you want to encourage tactical play and balanced teams with intelligently thought out skill bars etc. But to make the monsters just ignore the effects of a skill that was taken for a specific reason...

Here's an idea, why don't Anet actually post the attribute points, health points, energy pool and skill bars of some of the monsters?

Halving cast times is pure cheese, but should be great. Yes interrupts are much harder, but if you were casting constantly at that speed your energy pool would be gone in ~30s.

Hard mode is hard, and enjoyable in the main, it's just little things like skills not working that take out the fun.

It's already been mentioned that Grawl Ulodytes can sit spamming 'Heal Area' at a ridiculous rate - and yet they never run out of energy. Heal Area is a 10 energy skill, which verges on the expensive side for a monk with a max pool of what, about 50 energy? Why do monsters ignore recharge times and skill costs?

Has anyone managed to succesfully e-deny a monster? I set up a Mesmer hero with lots of e-denial/removal skills. He must have stripped well over 100 energy from a non-boss hard mode monster, and it was still spamming away at it's 10 energy skills.

C'mon, let's set up a framework of rules that apply to EVERYONE, players and monsters alike. Want to halve casting times and recharge times, that's fine PROVIDED THEY ARE ACTUALLY HALVED and not just ignored.

BdP

you do realize hard mode is optional, and not for everyone. the easy button mode is now even easier than before, and hardmode is... well, hard. its not impossible though, I'm doing fairly well in it and its mostly fun.

I think that the difficulty level is pretty fair myself.

Oh, you call battering through retarded AI (huge damage boosts, lame monster skills/effects) on the back of a poor tank skill? Genius.

If we had full skillbars, way better AI and positioning you'd be one of the first QQers in this forum.

Hide And Seek Is Not Fun.

QTF hard mode = god mode for monsters

You guys are greatly exaggerating things.

A limited set of monsters get crazy speed boosts. I know this because I kited them.

The grawl don't even use heal area on recharge. Heal area has a 5r, the toss it every 7-8.

The only regular monsters with decreased cast times are the mesmers, this would be because they have fast casting.

The fact that I think the game is badly designed has nothing to do with if I can beat it. I will of course earn my "I'm very Important" regardless, but I am still disappointed by the flaws of Hard mode and hope they don't repeat this mistake again.

Noob+PvE that's actually worth playing = whine


Simple formula, but covers a wide area.
If you can't do hardmode, please don't whine about it. Play tetris or something.

For the first time, PvE is actually worth a challenge! w00t go Anet!

Besides, It's still not that hard. I've done quite a variety of missions yesterday, including Thunderheadkeep, Dragon's Lair, Nolani Academy, Frost Gate, Hell's Precipice. All with bonus.

I have to admit, it took us a few tries to figure out proper builds to get through the missions properly, but once you get the hang of it, it's just a minor challenge which is actually fun to play!

I have seen a few decent skill bars so far, and most of the mobs arent hard at all there just some exeptions as i am concerned.

Inferno Imps for example, they normally use 3 fire ele skills, but do manage to time their 2 area spells just in a lethal way.. (Indecenary bonds and Rodgorts invocation) that's it's deadly and even challenging IMO.
What cuts the challenge down is the fact that they got higher atributes then us, better AI then most of our hero's and hechmens and only 3 skills you see them use.

There are enough ways to make a group of lvl 20 enemies challeging without giving double attack, cast and recharge speed.

I do like hard mode but sometimes it's just like theres no effort in it from the designers, it really appears they just trows skills in there from the same attribute , add speed buffs and tada hard monster..
I'd personnly like to see well tought team builds for monsters in PvE, but that's just my opinion.

Besides this i'm really enjoying the challenge of Hard mode.

Anet have taken the easy way out. They said they'd put some thought into monster skillbars... improve AI... Like hell they did. They just upped levels a bit, upped stats, gave lower levels an elite or skill to spam. Gave higher levels a second elite or maybe 1 extra skill. Then gave all enemies a stupid power boost. Well i'm yet to see improved AI. How can you show improved AI when they're busy chain spiking your entire team by been able to spam spells and attacks?

From a casual PvErs point of view. I tried hard mode last night with my heroes, and found the new challange great, especially when doing early missions in Prophecies. it gets kind of old just to walk through with a couple of blasts and swishes and mobs are gone. Even when getting to the finish line of the campaigns after a while it doesnt seem as hard as it did the first time you did it. This will be a refreshing change to actually have to work a little to go through the areas again. Especially if ya do hard mode while trying to finish some mapping in Ranik and the Eastern Frontier. Cant outrun the mobs anymore. just MO

I did not say it's too hard. It's just a lame way to buff monsters and could be done better. I don't play hardmode cause I'm a noob. I don't play hardmode because it's not fitting the concept of a balanced game like guildwars was supposed to be.


edit: completely agree Evilsod

Same exact problem when finding those pesky Devourers in Old Ascalon.

I don't see any big deal with the Hard Mode if all it entails in faster Attacks, faster Casting and faster Moving. Apart from that all mobs have got elites now.

When ANet said that originally they thought they would be ready with Hard Mode quickly after NF's release but instead decided to include more and more changes and release it this late, I thought it must be making some sweeping AI changes to make mobs play better.

I think hardmode need a little more tweak those double stuff will make people think counter only.And some boss that do 1 hit kill in hardmode just too much.
And making interupt harder is not really a good thing.Since Ai already got some advantage over human.
Thinking about the Critical Rule which a creature gain when having a higher lv which should give monster some edge over human already.

And also hench and heroes AI are still not well.Like the way they engauge in combat hey still pakced in one spot whcih make them prone to AoE spells.And some skill arnt used properly.Which make them not a good companoin in hardmode.

I have an idae that will make things easier for PvE player to set up team build is to improve the party search feature that allow player to replace them with heroes and take thier build which will save time for a lot of people setting up team.

Hey man you go try to take on a group of two grawl warriors and 2 grawl monks, 4 times.

Anyone that's not having a hard time, go do that with hero's and bring screenshots of that grawl area cleared, then I'll believe it's possible.

What they need to do is up the party limit just slightly, because it's way too hard for me (normal not that great player) to get past Frontier at all and no one really wants to do anything but the Surmia mission there and quests leaving from the other place.

They aren't called MONSTERS for no reason. YOU ARE A HUMAN WITH HUMAN ABILITIES. They are monsters with monster abilities. In real life you can't wrestle a bear because it is much stronger than you and hits harder and is bigger and and and...!!! A black widow spider can even kill you in one bite. You can't expect MONSTERS to fight with the same limitations than humans. Enough said. HM is good as it is.

You mis-understand. Its hard for sure. I was getting wiped out with Heroes + Henchies against Searing Flames Ruby Djinns in Mirror of Lyss who can use it 3-4 times in a row and the hench AI still freaking sucks.

What I meant is, the hard mode update is nothing of a big deal as Anet hardly did anything new. They just gave everybody mobs elites, increased levels and increased other attributes. Before that, people were talking as if Hard Mode was going bring a AI revolution and that is clearly not the case.

If they made the AI smarter it would just be like PvP. Since we already have that, I enjoy figuring out how to cheat the big buggers.

Off-topic:
Well, actually he volenteered to be there and hold the charr while we ran because he said he could do it and that his other groups all died trying to run it, so he wanted to try it that way.. >>; And tanks are...well tanks. Of course they would be the option to stall when needed? In a team of Monk/Tank/Mesmer/Ranger, the most useful staller would be a tank. And skill and effective tactics are completly different, effective tactics would be knowing the best plan of action in a specific frame of time. Did it matter who died at that point? Not really, We all mostly were used to stall for time because if one person made it to the end, then we all won the mission quickly. Considering there was a time limit, it would not have been best for us to wait around, and all of us trying to run would have been plain suicide. We made it to the end, because the tank was able to stall the charr for long enough.

And on another note, I made that post while I was in a bad mood, due to the game exiting out with an illegal operation when I almost vanquished a map and didn't want to go through that agian.. "D I apologize for the rude comment I may have made... >>; Frankly, the 'retarted' AI doesn't do too much more, especially not "Huge Damage Boosts".

And allow me to rephrase my previous post... >>;

The ai is a bit harder, but not to the point at which it is really cheating. It is easily countered with basic cooperation and some tactics. The buffs don't do too much in reality, as long as you know how to counter them. For the skills casting faster, use a mesmer and slow them down. The speed buffs are not too much of a problem, unless you are in the mission: The Great Nothern Wall, at which point it is much easier if you use people to stall the rampaging charr heading towards you rather then try a mad suicide charge like before. And the recharge time isn't really much of a problem, as long as you kill them quickly enough for it not to matter.

Sorry for my flaming post earlier, once again.. >>; I didn't really mean it, I was just in a bad mood.. >>;

And what is a QQer? "D
------
Anyway...back on topic.. >>;

You don't need to up the party limit slightly, its fine as it is. 8 people is more then enough, infact you could actually use 4. You just need enough protection and healing to last mini-skirmishes and long boss battles, while enough attack-power to kill off the enemy. A team you could use is: Mesmer/Elementalist/Monk/Dervish. The elementalists could use a light AoE to keep enemies off the itself, the mesmer and monk by cheating through the AoE AI and use heavy-damage spells on the main threats. The mesmer could use illusion or domination to stop them from doing much, while the dervish could tank while doing enough damage to be efficient. The elementalist could be replaced by a FC Nuker of some sort. Hench/Hero AIs may not be perfect, but you can use them efficiently with some builds.

I think most people are missing it is all. I've had the AI do pretty smart things, while I'm attacking run me into a MS, the way they kite, far from my monks so they die or into other enemies so I have to hold off. How when you attacked one monk that was attacking, it would stop and run and then the other would take it's place, then stop and run when you tried to kill it but couldn't.

So for me it's very challenging, every area is. Because unlike most of you guys, I'm a warrior, with access to hero's only. Hero's fail verse Grawl. Plus I can't do 500 dps, so I can't kill the monks on my own. I do maybe 180 every two of their heal areas.

Also Deleet is right, it seems everyone want's the monsters AI to be just like people's AI..I don't want that, I can't stand PvP.

if you aint good enough to play hard mode without breaking down in tears and crying about how hard it is then dont play it. Leave it for the rest of us that relish the challenge.

The AI was improved a bit, I see kiting, and they seem to choose there targets better.

This is the cheap way to make the game "challenging" in PvE. It is just like mini DoA all over Guild Wars (it is not like I cant do it but it is not creative design IMO).

It seems every time Anet tries to make things challenging in PvE, they throw away the game concept and mechanic even more (monster skills, double damage on monsters, shorter condition/hex duration on monsters, environment effect, knockdown immune creatures (giants), fast cast/recharge/movement on monsters).

Nobody here says it's too hard The Legg. Please read the posts carefully.

The problem is: For cheating level 2X mobs you don't need any tactics. You just need as many damage, knockdowns and healing as possible. that's all.

Not true, American Mcgee's Cheshire Cat face. "D Using tactics, such as pulling, and take them on a few at a time, no tactics = Aggro super mob = Death. Another tactic that still stands is party placement.
Example of effective Party Placement:

1-(Warrior) - (Dervish)
2-(Assassins)
3-(Damage Casters) - (Rangers) - (Attack paragons)
4-(Mesmers)
5-(Monks)
6-(Ritualists)
7-(Support Paragons)

Thus providing an efficient cushion. If surrounded, use the damage caster's aoe to keep off the enemy from a monk or some squishy.

Also a 20 attribute in their skills. 45 damage Spiteful Spirits are not fun, especially when Alesia doesn't have hex removal. I wish my Olias knew how to use Verrata's Aura properly so I could steal some level 20 bone fiends.

I think that's my biggest gripe; the henchmen. Why bother buffing them to their level 20 counterparts (minus their elite skills, I never once saw Herta use Sandstorm when vanquishing Mehtani Keys) if they still don't have decent skill bars and ball into buffed AoEs? I could only imagine the frustration Canthan and Tyrian only players are going through without heroes that have 8 skills on their bars.

Vanquished Ice Dome with 6 heroes and 2 players respectively clear of DP, degened groups of 6 Stoneflesh Mandragors to death while they sat there under their 20 specced Stoneflesh Aura firing 20 specced Stoning and Ebon Hawks with hench/heroes. Enchantment removal helps, but waiting around for one skill to recharge so I kill something faster just isn't hard; it's frustrating. I don't even want to think about Rain of Terror in the Realm of Torment missions.

Hmm. there's a lot of anger here.

I've not played a mission/quest in hard mode, only done solo farming. I explored a little of Ascalon and I found the monsters mostly walkovers. I soloed hard mode Ascalon on my ele without any special build (just my normal one). I can't honestly see much difference in difficulty.

Actualy, I also did some RoT and that was easy too.

I do think if all A-net did was change overall things (recharge/speed) then it's not a very worthwhile update. I though they would look individualy at every monster skill bar to balance them and add a secondary prof. It's a shame really.

You know you're actually a real nasty person for stereotyping anyone that complains like that. Maybe you were just extraordinarily lucky if you got through them all first/second time. A lot of people are getting murdered because of poor NPC AI and/or mobs spawning in places that just murder them.

I know people that are very experienced, but keep dying on some missions because of problems I've outlined on the other thread. Hard mode shouldn't be about luck, but it often seems to be.