I haven't got the time yet to enjoy the mode yet since I'm not on the pc that can run GW atm.
The more I'm away, the more I wish to get onto it.
Hard Mode: Best and worst class?
Phantom Flux
What is the best and worse class you have seen performed in Hard Mode by you and another player and why? How much elitism have you encountered in hard mode compared to other regular missions.
I haven't got the time yet to enjoy the mode yet since I'm not on the pc that can run GW atm. The more I'm away, the more I wish to get onto it.
I haven't got the time yet to enjoy the mode yet since I'm not on the pc that can run GW atm.
The more I'm away, the more I wish to get onto it.
explodemyheart
I've only played in hard mode with one other real player. No elitism witnessed as the heroes don't care if I have a decent bar, or just healing breeze and rebirth. 
From using heroes though, I can say so far that... paragons, ritualists and mesmers are extremely helpful to have in parties. Cleared Perdition rock with a paragon in the party, was extremely helpful. Cleared Witman's Folly with a ritualist in the party, was extremely helpful. Have cleared several areas with a mesmer, and the little fat man has more than done his job. I have not tried assassin or dervish. Not because I'm particularly adverse to it, just that mostly we got on a roll and didn't want to set up new bars/heroes to get going.
Monking is not so bad as long as in 8-man parties, the 2-3 monks have good builds or even if you're the lone monk, you have a good build. Good tanks are extremely helpful. Minion masters are extremely helpful in parties where you're restricted to 4 people and SS and SV absolutely dominant. Fire nuking is dominant as well. It's really not as easy as just saying "the best and worst classes for hard mode".
In areas where you're extremely restricted by having a party size of 4, build tweaking might be necessary to find the balance between damage, interrupts and healing.
Finally, golden eggs and 4-leaf clovers are your friend.
From using heroes though, I can say so far that... paragons, ritualists and mesmers are extremely helpful to have in parties. Cleared Perdition rock with a paragon in the party, was extremely helpful. Cleared Witman's Folly with a ritualist in the party, was extremely helpful. Have cleared several areas with a mesmer, and the little fat man has more than done his job. I have not tried assassin or dervish. Not because I'm particularly adverse to it, just that mostly we got on a roll and didn't want to set up new bars/heroes to get going.
Monking is not so bad as long as in 8-man parties, the 2-3 monks have good builds or even if you're the lone monk, you have a good build. Good tanks are extremely helpful. Minion masters are extremely helpful in parties where you're restricted to 4 people and SS and SV absolutely dominant. Fire nuking is dominant as well. It's really not as easy as just saying "the best and worst classes for hard mode".
In areas where you're extremely restricted by having a party size of 4, build tweaking might be necessary to find the balance between damage, interrupts and healing.
Finally, golden eggs and 4-leaf clovers are your friend.
Draxanoth
And so begins the same BS class elimination that DoA created. GG anet for hosing the game further.
explodemyheart
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draxanoth
And so begins the same BS class elimination that DoA created. GG anet for hosing the game further.
I'm not entirely sure how you can blame Anet for the problem. They could 1) not create the areas or 2) delete the classes discriminated against. It's the fault of the players that classes are not accepted, for whatever reason. Most likely ignorance on their part. They don't see big fiery rocks from the sky when a mesmer is keeping a monk boss on lockdown so they can kill everything else. They don't notice how much damage a dervish is doing to more than 1 target because most likely, they only have 1 thing targeted instead of tabbing through.
Regardless, I guarantee you that at least for the time being, there is not as much class discrimination as you're making it sound like there is. I've seen several people in town asking for mesmers for both missions and explorable areas, I've even seen mesmers pleased because they actually feel useful in PvE now, to an extent. Norgu, General Morgahn and Razah have been terrific assets to me and several people I know, for that matter.
Regardless, I guarantee you that at least for the time being, there is not as much class discrimination as you're making it sound like there is. I've seen several people in town asking for mesmers for both missions and explorable areas, I've even seen mesmers pleased because they actually feel useful in PvE now, to an extent. Norgu, General Morgahn and Razah have been terrific assets to me and several people I know, for that matter.
Renegade26
My Mesmer has so far cleared 12 areas with ease.
garethporlest18
Being a warrior sucks in Ascalon using hero's. I know that much.
Sins, Mesmers, Rits and Paragons will be neeed. Sins can unleash a fast kill devastation with slowdowns and blind, or daze, depending on what you need to do. The same old Warrior, Monk, Ele, Necro build no more. If you want to have fun that is. Haha.
Sins, Mesmers, Rits and Paragons will be neeed. Sins can unleash a fast kill devastation with slowdowns and blind, or daze, depending on what you need to do. The same old Warrior, Monk, Ele, Necro build no more. If you want to have fun that is. Haha.
xDusT II
Necro's and mesmers aswell as elementalists.
Reason: Hard mode buffed the enemy melee the most, and they are the most devastating, melee hate severly reduces damage and stuff like SS can be insane.
Reason: Hard mode buffed the enemy melee the most, and they are the most devastating, melee hate severly reduces damage and stuff like SS can be insane.
Anna Ryan
Agreed, cleared all the Canthan islands for vanquisher and guardian title. Norgu with powerblock was extremely helpfull, as was Olias as mm. The thing that bothers me though is that monk heroes stay put when they get hit, resulting in a very quick death most of the time.
Miral
most useful: a well-played SS or MM.
least useful: assassin. it can be a great class to have, but most the people playing it just want to be 1337 ninjas and really stink at it. (note I said most not all, so don't come bitching that I said you suck if you know how to play an assassin. I actually have one of my own...)
least useful: assassin. it can be a great class to have, but most the people playing it just want to be 1337 ninjas and really stink at it. (note I said most not all, so don't come bitching that I said you suck if you know how to play an assassin. I actually have one of my own...)
Kook~NBK~
Most useful class: Any one with a player behind it that knows what they're doing.
Least useful class: Any one where the person playing it is clueless.
This has always been true.
Least useful class: Any one where the person playing it is clueless.
This has always been true.
FeroxC
I think paragons are making a comeback i got accepted into a group and we vanquished North kryta.
With the 500 scales with SS and the nuking fire imps party wide healing was very usefull.
With the 500 scales with SS and the nuking fire imps party wide healing was very usefull.
Pwny Ride
Most useless from my experience in Hard Mode is Elementliast ~ since raw damage doesnt cut it against the hard mode enemies.
Most Useful? Well i coulds be byast and say mesmer, and i will to a certain extent, but i would also say Assassin (not the i can 1on1 anything type), the few assassins who play like theyre SUPPOSED TO (i.e. step in, damage, retreat).
Most Useful? Well i coulds be byast and say mesmer, and i will to a certain extent, but i would also say Assassin (not the i can 1on1 anything type), the few assassins who play like theyre SUPPOSED TO (i.e. step in, damage, retreat).
Muspellsheimr
I have had great success playing my necromancer - I have found minions to be of little use, but spiteful spirit is exceptionally powerful in hard mode, and curse support can be just as devastating.
Mesmers are also quite useful. Elementalists are great as well, although the fire magic tree has lost some of its use - earth and water have been working well, and air spiking is at least as good as typical nuking.
A good tank, and good monking are always useful. I have not really tried classes other than that so far though, so cannot say about the rest.
Mesmers are also quite useful. Elementalists are great as well, although the fire magic tree has lost some of its use - earth and water have been working well, and air spiking is at least as good as typical nuking.
A good tank, and good monking are always useful. I have not really tried classes other than that so far though, so cannot say about the rest.
viper11025
A bleed out sin is good with a Rt to back them up, and a Healer to back up the RT.Add a MM to make it fun!
(Bleed out sins naturally make ppl bleed and lose ALOT of health over time but without the rt to protect him he'll die soo fast against a warrior.)
(Bleed out sins naturally make ppl bleed and lose ALOT of health over time but without the rt to protect him he'll die soo fast against a warrior.)
Renegade26
Quote:
Originally Posted by viper11025
A bleed out sin is good with a Rt to back them up, and a Healer to back up the RT.Add a MM to make it fun!
(Bleed out sins naturally make ppl bleed and lose ALOT of health over time but without the rt to protect him he'll die soo fast against a warrior.) You mean spammable Dagger Attacks whilst under Warmonger's Weapon? Because yes that would own, but would take a lot of thinking from an AI to work out.
(Bleed out sins naturally make ppl bleed and lose ALOT of health over time but without the rt to protect him he'll die soo fast against a warrior.) You mean spammable Dagger Attacks whilst under Warmonger's Weapon? Because yes that would own, but would take a lot of thinking from an AI to work out.
Boris De Pig
Well so far I've only played hard mode on my 'sin and so far he seems OK tbh. The rapid dagger attacks seem to work pretty well, however it's in a tanking role that I seem to excel with the group we went out with.
Basically we went for a guild run around 'Plains of Jarin' and where there are huge swarms of insects I was going in first, sticking up Critical Defenses (which with wild blow/moebius/critical strike I can keep up indefinitely). It doesn't seem that the 75% block works fully but the monk was more than capable of keeping me alive whilst the Ele was able to drop nukes and the Paragon offerred both damage and healing buff's.
This system worked really well against the mobs of melee monsters, however, I'm not looking forwards to mobs of djinn (or any other casters for that matter).
I think it's a case of 'horses for courses' some classes will excel in some areas, and others will struggle.
BdP
Basically we went for a guild run around 'Plains of Jarin' and where there are huge swarms of insects I was going in first, sticking up Critical Defenses (which with wild blow/moebius/critical strike I can keep up indefinitely). It doesn't seem that the 75% block works fully but the monk was more than capable of keeping me alive whilst the Ele was able to drop nukes and the Paragon offerred both damage and healing buff's.
This system worked really well against the mobs of melee monsters, however, I'm not looking forwards to mobs of djinn (or any other casters for that matter).
I think it's a case of 'horses for courses' some classes will excel in some areas, and others will struggle.
BdP
Phantom Flux
Very interesting. So most of you are saying that Anet seemed to have created a way for the underdog classes to shine a bit more than your ordinary core class build(Typical boring team build would be: 2 tanks, 2 nuker, 1 healer, 1 proto, 1 mm, blood or SS: not being open minded to non-core classes)
The class I've been looking forward in taking on hardmode is my male assassin (since he's the pve - out of my 11 pves - I managed to accumulate the most titles for.) I would take my level 20 mesmer but she hasn't completed one campaign regularly yet. Despite all I need is 1 level 20 pve to unlock hard mode I guess I just see her (ny mesmer) too underdeveloped.
The class I've been looking forward in taking on hardmode is my male assassin (since he's the pve - out of my 11 pves - I managed to accumulate the most titles for.) I would take my level 20 mesmer but she hasn't completed one campaign regularly yet. Despite all I need is 1 level 20 pve to unlock hard mode I guess I just see her (ny mesmer) too underdeveloped.
Bryant Again
I said that the assassin was the most useless class, but after playing through mine I'm a little unsure. The fact that the enemies shrug off Deep Wound is frusterating, though.
Str0b0
Dervish hands down. I've been mowing through zones in Elona and Tyria with my dervish. So far I've got 10 of 34 zones in Elona Vanquished and 2 in Tyria. I want to finish up factions too, mostly so I can cap AoD and play around with Mystic Sandstorm a little.
Samurai-JM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
I said that the assassin was the most useless class, but after playing through mine I'm a little unsure. The fact that the enemies shrug off Deep Wound is frusterating, though.
Mine still works Been using a CritDefenses/Moebius/DB build with Vital Weapon + Wielders Boon. Works nicely.
Been using a CritDefenses/Moebius/DB build with Vital Weapon + Wielders Boon. Works nicely.
Zinger314
Well, this poll is a little bias.
Unbias, the best classes are a combination of an SS Necromancer and a good Domination Mesmer. SS shuts down all the melee, Mesmer shuts down the casters.
Unfortunately, both need to be played by Humans to obtain the full effect, since Heroes do not know targeting priority.
Unbias, the best classes are a combination of an SS Necromancer and a good Domination Mesmer. SS shuts down all the melee, Mesmer shuts down the casters.
Unfortunately, both need to be played by Humans to obtain the full effect, since Heroes do not know targeting priority.
garethporlest18
Well considering I just cleared Diessa with a Paragon and Mesmer, I'd say those two are high up on the list, didn't use an ele at all or a necro. I used two classes most people seemed to think were useless.
Orbberius
Yeah, I have to agree SS seems to be the most efficient for hard mode so far. And heroes aren't great at it by themselves, but if you use hero targets efficiently (put the SS on the melee, the mesmer on the monk, etc.), there shouldn't be a problem.
I haven't tried paragon yet, I'll try that soon. Anyone tried running bonder hero monks? With some use of hero flags, I think they could be really really effective.
I haven't tried paragon yet, I'll try that soon. Anyone tried running bonder hero monks? With some use of hero flags, I think they could be really really effective.
TGgold
I would say a human SS and a hero interrupter pretty much own everything in hardmode.
I'll play some more and come back to see if I'm still right. THe only times that the mezzy wasn't doing so hot was when it was mostly physical groups (thank god for empathy) since most of his bar is dedicated to interrupting.
I'll play some more and come back to see if I'm still right. THe only times that the mezzy wasn't doing so hot was when it was mostly physical groups (thank god for empathy) since most of his bar is dedicated to interrupting.
Warskull
Worst would probably be sin and rit, they tend to be very specialize and hard to make a role for. However, splinter weapon+dervish+PvE=everything dead.
Lourens
Im playing Barrage + Conjure + Mark works just fine only cleared North Kryta Province Though,..
deluxe
Best group for me: 1 SS, 1 Dom mez, 2 SF, 2 Warr, 2 monk.
Dr Strangelove
It's really the player not the class that matters. I've been asking everyone to ping their bar when they join, as a first filter. Most people are willing to change small things to work a bit better, like adding a rez. The heal other spam monks usually get mad when you tell them to change and have a way of getting rid of themselves.
Also, communication skills are key. If someone types in leetspeak or fails to talk at all, boot them immediately. They're retarded, and will only screw you over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pwny Ride
Also, communication skills are key. If someone types in leetspeak or fails to talk at all, boot them immediately. They're retarded, and will only screw you over.
Quote:
Most useless from my experience in Hard Mode is Elementliast ~ since raw damage doesnt cut it against the hard mode enemies.
. If you think eles are only raw damage, you clearly have no idea how to play one.
. If you think eles are only raw damage, you clearly have no idea how to play one.
sucidal
what the hell is hardmode? please pm me the reply because i doubt ill find this thread again!
Cebe
Quote:
Originally Posted by garethporlest18
Being a warrior sucks in Ascalon using hero's. I know that much.
Sins, Mesmers, Rits and Paragons will be neeed. So true. I've not found any real use for a warrior in Hard Mode. I rarely go out without a rit. Shelter, Displacement and Union before a fight really take the pressure off the monks to heal up after the initial spike. Norgu should be a requirement. Mantra of Recovery + Power Return with high Fast Casting is just plain leet. General Morgahn is handy when I use fire eles as he reduces damage by abbout 30% by "They're on Fire!"...it's not hard to keep everything burning.
For me, best class: Ele.
worst class: Warrior.
Dicsounting healers, or course, since they're universally required be it normal or hard mode.
Sins, Mesmers, Rits and Paragons will be neeed. So true. I've not found any real use for a warrior in Hard Mode. I rarely go out without a rit. Shelter, Displacement and Union before a fight really take the pressure off the monks to heal up after the initial spike. Norgu should be a requirement. Mantra of Recovery + Power Return with high Fast Casting is just plain leet. General Morgahn is handy when I use fire eles as he reduces damage by abbout 30% by "They're on Fire!"...it's not hard to keep everything burning.
For me, best class: Ele.
worst class: Warrior.
Dicsounting healers, or course, since they're universally required be it normal or hard mode.
Ensui
The monk, obviously. Why is there even a poll? 
legacyofkain85
There is NO bad or good class for hard mode it is all in the players ability to make useful builds and in the player´s skill of play with multiple clases.In mi opinion i would say I am not a pro player in 1 class but i know how to play all of them.But the class discrimination is always there and can´t do anything about it could say the same about DOA where there is rank discrimination in the lightbringer title so if u have an ex(me):rank 7 lightbringer monk u still are a low rank and wont be accepted when u play other clases
legacyofkain85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
So true. I've not found any real use for a warrior in Hard Mode. I rarely go out without a rit. Shelter, Displacement and Union before a fight really take the pressure off the monks to heal up after the initial spike. Norgu should be a requirement. Mantra of Recovery + Power Return with high Fast Casting is just plain leet. General Morgahn is handy when I use fire eles as he reduces damage by abbout 30% by "They're on Fire!"...it's not hard to keep everything burning.
For me, best class: Ele.
worst class: Warrior.
Dicsounting healers, or course, since they're universally required be it normal or hard mode. I totaly disagree why hate warior hmm he doesnt do the same dmg as ele well warior is good at what they do =preasure and tank as for them sucking in ascalon misions in hard mode i disagree again maybe u never had a good warior tank in your team ex:warior had healing hands,vigorus spirit,live vicariously, in the mision nolani academy after the aprt where rurik uses the stormcaller and he goes down chargeing in to mobs we were all dead only warior stood alive and managed to res one of us and so on we managed to defeat the mobs heal rurik who =related to devona=agro maniac and finish the mision (hm) so warior saved the day
For me, best class: Ele.
worst class: Warrior.
Dicsounting healers, or course, since they're universally required be it normal or hard mode. I totaly disagree why hate warior hmm he doesnt do the same dmg as ele well warior is good at what they do =preasure and tank as for them sucking in ascalon misions in hard mode i disagree again maybe u never had a good warior tank in your team ex:warior had healing hands,vigorus spirit,live vicariously, in the mision nolani academy after the aprt where rurik uses the stormcaller and he goes down chargeing in to mobs we were all dead only warior stood alive and managed to res one of us and so on we managed to defeat the mobs heal rurik who =related to devona=agro maniac and finish the mision (hm) so warior saved the day
Nekretaal
Best Class Monk
Hard mode cant be completed without a monk, and usually cant be completed without 25% of your team as monks.
Best non-monk class? Tank and Nuke
Ahh the holy trinity. Anyways, the warrior is pretty vital in making Hrd mode run smootly. A good tank can suvive a spike by the enemy, which gives the rest of the team enough time to rush in and kill. As for the elementalist? The higher armor renders some of the non-armor ignoring damage obsolete, but stuff like searing flames still has a ton of aoe spammable armor ignoring damage (burning), also from a support/damage prevention perspective: Blinding Flash plus Blurred vision beats both the necromancer and mesmer classes. If reckless haste is a good skill, blurred vision is 100% superior there can be no question about it.
If pressed, I'll say that the elementalist is better than the pure tank. the tank role makes hard mode 10,000% easier, but there is only room for one in the group.
Worst Classes Paragon, Asssassin, and Mesmer these classes cant really tank, and cant do AoE damage. They cant monk either. Paragon (nerfed) healing is nothing special. Paragons cant disupt, assassins have to draw aggro away from the tank, and mesmers (even anet admits) dont have a suitable skillset for PvE (mostly due to an underpowered illusion line and a hodgepodgy inspiriation line, forcing most mesmers into domination).
As for Necromancers? They are ok, but not great, if your team is set up to create and exploit deaths (like they do in pvp where ther is a MM or spirit spammer also in the group), but not good enough to cut it otherwise. The curses line is ok against melee (but not as good as anti-melee elementalist), and is fairly weak against the more-dangerous caster lines. MM can still cut it in Hard mode.. I omit possible roles like Orders or BiP, as these specialized roles require orgainized groups, which dont exist in hard mode, where you basically have to hero/hench everything due to lack of player interest.
Hard mode cant be completed without a monk, and usually cant be completed without 25% of your team as monks.
Best non-monk class? Tank and Nuke
Ahh the holy trinity. Anyways, the warrior is pretty vital in making Hrd mode run smootly. A good tank can suvive a spike by the enemy, which gives the rest of the team enough time to rush in and kill. As for the elementalist? The higher armor renders some of the non-armor ignoring damage obsolete, but stuff like searing flames still has a ton of aoe spammable armor ignoring damage (burning), also from a support/damage prevention perspective: Blinding Flash plus Blurred vision beats both the necromancer and mesmer classes. If reckless haste is a good skill, blurred vision is 100% superior there can be no question about it.
If pressed, I'll say that the elementalist is better than the pure tank. the tank role makes hard mode 10,000% easier, but there is only room for one in the group.
Worst Classes Paragon, Asssassin, and Mesmer these classes cant really tank, and cant do AoE damage. They cant monk either. Paragon (nerfed) healing is nothing special. Paragons cant disupt, assassins have to draw aggro away from the tank, and mesmers (even anet admits) dont have a suitable skillset for PvE (mostly due to an underpowered illusion line and a hodgepodgy inspiriation line, forcing most mesmers into domination).
As for Necromancers? They are ok, but not great, if your team is set up to create and exploit deaths (like they do in pvp where ther is a MM or spirit spammer also in the group), but not good enough to cut it otherwise. The curses line is ok against melee (but not as good as anti-melee elementalist), and is fairly weak against the more-dangerous caster lines. MM can still cut it in Hard mode.. I omit possible roles like Orders or BiP, as these specialized roles require orgainized groups, which dont exist in hard mode, where you basically have to hero/hench everything due to lack of player interest.
Div
Best class: heroes and henchies
Worst class: pugs
Besides the 2-3 people that I pve with, I take heroes and henchies to vanquish, complete missions, and farm ss/lb hard mode.
Worst class: pugs
Besides the 2-3 people that I pve with, I take heroes and henchies to vanquish, complete missions, and farm ss/lb hard mode.
legacyofkain85
Quote:
Originally Posted by holymasamune
Best class: heroes and henchies
Worst class: pugs
Besides the 2-3 people that I pve with, I take heroes and henchies to vanquish, complete missions, and farm ss/lb hard mode. That is so true
Worst class: pugs
Besides the 2-3 people that I pve with, I take heroes and henchies to vanquish, complete missions, and farm ss/lb hard mode. That is so true
Kumlekar
In HM, Dom mesmer and SS necro rise to the top, warriors and rangers took a hit. most other classes are about the same as in normal. Sins seem better because most of the noob sins (90% of the assassin population) have been weeded out.
Free Wind
I also do not agree that warrior is the worst class for Hard Mode. It took me 1 day to get Guardian of Cantha on my warrior and 3 days to get Guardian of Tyria. I have 12 missions left in Elona to be Legendary Guardian.
The worst thing that can happen to a warrior is when you start reffering to them as "tanks". Having completed 2 full continents in hard mode on my warrior, I never had any tanking skills on my bar. Tank is the last thing my warrior can be called.
My hard mode setup for most of the missions is
Tripple Chop,
Cyclone Axe,
Executioner's Strike
Flail
Enraging Charge
-- often changed -- (usualy Lion's Comfort)
Splinter Weapon
Flesh of my Flesh
16 Axe, 10 Channeling, rest in Strength
With Splinter, Tripple and Cyclone you do insaine damage and you do it much faster then any SS would.
There is only one class you cannot do Hard Mode missions without - monk.
So, I'd say a Monk or two, rest is optional
The worst thing that can happen to a warrior is when you start reffering to them as "tanks". Having completed 2 full continents in hard mode on my warrior, I never had any tanking skills on my bar. Tank is the last thing my warrior can be called.
My hard mode setup for most of the missions is
Tripple Chop,
Cyclone Axe,
Executioner's Strike
Flail
Enraging Charge
-- often changed -- (usualy Lion's Comfort)
Splinter Weapon
Flesh of my Flesh
16 Axe, 10 Channeling, rest in Strength
With Splinter, Tripple and Cyclone you do insaine damage and you do it much faster then any SS would.
There is only one class you cannot do Hard Mode missions without - monk.
So, I'd say a Monk or two, rest is optional
bungusmaximus
Since people can't find anyone to PUG with they will more or less invite everything decent on their team. Theres also a thing like flexibility. If I see theres a sin on the team there will be more prot. besides: Sin + Mark of Pain is GGWTFPWNAGE ^^.