I'm sure everyone can agree that one big problem with the Assassin is its primary attribute, and how unlike all other classes, its form of energy management (Critical Strikes) is severely reduced by the target simply having higher armor. Thus, Assassin's ability to take on Warriors is hindered in two ways:
1) Obviously, the higher armor, and with a 'sins already low dagger damage, that damage gets reduced to almost nothing
2) Very few critical strikes, which not only prevents them from doing any decent damage without attack skills at all, but also nearly stops their energy management so they can't even use them as often.
This only really addresses PvP, in PvE its much worse, where you'll get almost no critical strikes against high level enemies, and are forced to take something like Critical Strike in order to gain back energy.
So here's my suggestion:
Speccing just 1 level into the Critical Strikes line will make your chances of critical striking ignore armor, in the way that holy damage "ignores" armor - it'll base the critical hit chance, not the damage type, on 60 AL. (And since it's Critical Strikes, you won't have other Professions exploiting it.) I'll also say that it will keep the affect of increasing critical hit chance by 1% for each rank in Critical Strikes. This way, let's say you have a combination of attributes in Dagger and Criticals that your overall chance to get a critical hit is 40% - that 40% will apply to anything. It won't increase the overall damage done to squishies, but at the same time, 'Sins would actually gain some useful DPS against heavier armored targets - and the biggest reason for this suggestion, their energy management won't suffer just because their target has high armor.
Thoughts? (Constructive only)
Fixing the Assassin's Primary Attribute, a suggestion.
Isil`Zha
Saphatorael
Critical Hits are determined through level, not Armor Rating, I think?
Even so, Crit Strikes works fine for me... the damage isn't bad at all, because of the armor ignoring damage dagger chains rely on.
Very few Critical Hits? Try to get a better chain that won't drain you completely, the most obvious example would be Black Lotus Strike + any hex.
But I wouldn't mind your change to it at all, any buff to an assassin is fine with me XD
Even so, Crit Strikes works fine for me... the damage isn't bad at all, because of the armor ignoring damage dagger chains rely on.
Very few Critical Hits? Try to get a better chain that won't drain you completely, the most obvious example would be Black Lotus Strike + any hex.
But I wouldn't mind your change to it at all, any buff to an assassin is fine with me XD
Shuuda
Let see about critical strikes, it adds damage, provides energy, and has a nice range of skills, seems fine to me.
Ishtar Serket
The only time Sins have problems with Critical Strikes is not when the target has high armor (since Critical Strikes ignores it when determining chance to crit) but when they put up enchants or stances that block attacks. A stancing ranger or warrior can easily shut down energy regen of a sin. Unfortunately the options to counter it are limited as well. You can either bring Wild Strike (a sin skill that can itself be blocked by the stance) or Wild Blow which guarantees to end the stance but requires you to go A/W.
There is no need to change Critical Strikes though since stancing targets won't shut you down completely since others can hit that target anyways. I wouldn't mind if the % chance to critical went up a bit though.
There is no need to change Critical Strikes though since stancing targets won't shut you down completely since others can hit that target anyways. I wouldn't mind if the % chance to critical went up a bit though.
Shuuda
Or how about Expose defences, or Way of the Fox, or Fox's Promise even.
LightningHell
Critical Strikes is one of the best primary attributes, if you're talking in terms of the passive effect.
ACreator
that way sins would be overpowered.
critical eye + way of the assassin + atack skils means that 90% of ur dmg is armor ignoring, so anything to boost ur atack (like conjure weapons) would make a sin overpowered i think..
critical eye + way of the assassin + atack skils means that 90% of ur dmg is armor ignoring, so anything to boost ur atack (like conjure weapons) would make a sin overpowered i think..
Yanman.be
ACreator, learn to read.
Samurai-JM
Critical Strike + Moebius Strike would tear warriors apart if that happened. CS is fine the way it is now I think, for higher damage and nice e-management.
LightningHell
I have to post in the wrong thread...
I think the problem isn't with Critical Strikes, it's the skill trees of the assassin that's screwed up.
I think the problem isn't with Critical Strikes, it's the skill trees of the assassin that's screwed up.
Shendaar
Hmm ... Assassin have no problem taking down warriors. most of the Dagger attack skills have high +damage, which means that you still do some damage regardless of their armor. You can drop a Dolyak Signet warrior in a couple of seconds with a combo like Moebius Strike + Death Blossom.
Tingi
Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningHell
Critical Strikes is one of the best primary attributes, if you're talking in terms of the passive effect.
QFT
I can't really belive anyone is complaining about CS. It's a pretty dam good Primary Attritube as far as they go.
I mean, look at Strength - now THAT's a bad attribute.
THe only problem that you could argue however, is the fact that the breakpoint for 3 energy is 13 CS, which is quite high, thus reducing the amount of other attributes you can specify in. But that's only if I'm nitpicking.
I can't really belive anyone is complaining about CS. It's a pretty dam good Primary Attritube as far as they go.
I mean, look at Strength - now THAT's a bad attribute.
THe only problem that you could argue however, is the fact that the breakpoint for 3 energy is 13 CS, which is quite high, thus reducing the amount of other attributes you can specify in. But that's only if I'm nitpicking.
Evilsod
You want to fix Critical Strikes? Is there something wrong with it?
Isil`Zha
I thought Critical Strike chance was lowered by AL? I always seemed to get that impression.... if not, then some of you aren't reading it properly.. my proposed change would not affect PvP at all. I even stressed that the damage done would not be armor ignoring. I thought chance to critical was affected by armor, if not, then PvP remains unaffected, what I did say was to base the chance for a critical hit on 60AL... under the assumption that AL affected critical hit rate.
It would however, fix them for PvE, where high level monsters make it so Assassins get very few critical hits - but if it's not based on AL, then make it as though it were based on no higher than level 20.
It would however, fix them for PvE, where high level monsters make it so Assassins get very few critical hits - but if it's not based on AL, then make it as though it were based on no higher than level 20.
MsMassacre
Please don't "fix" critical strikes. My assassin loves it just the way it is.
Ahrims Assassin
In my opinion, it wouldn't be good to buff assassin at all at this point. They're working pretty well right now, but if we get buffed than we may get that group of people that migrates to whatever seems most powerful. Personally, when I meet an assassin, I'd rather it be someone who is loyal to the class.
mrmango
@Zha: Honest mistake, but I think their PVE monsters' stances and such allow you have much less critical hit-age. So yes, AL doesn't mean anything pertaining to crit hits.
To the majority of these posters, you guys didn't really see how he made that mistake, just posted random opinions. XD
And @ Ahrim: Loyalty is sort of useless, unless you're roleplaying something. But yea goood point.
To the majority of these posters, you guys didn't really see how he made that mistake, just posted random opinions. XD
And @ Ahrim: Loyalty is sort of useless, unless you're roleplaying something. But yea goood point.
Trylo
i think we might need an explanation of critical hits because what ive gathered from your OP is that you want to be able to crit hit more on warriors to get energy back... now im not sure if crit hits are linked to armor or level, someone needs to explain the truth about that one...
also your suggestion is either confusingly written or i just havent played sins enough to understand what you mean, but from what it sounds like is that you want all crit hits to ignore damage by speccing 1 into crit strikes. i doubt thats what you really mean because that would be way overpowered. it also could be interpreted that you want it to scale upwards by your chance of critical hits to do armor penetration (ignore armor)... so basically with 12 dagger mastery and 13 crit strikes you would have ~40% armor penetration on all critical strikes. i think people would take that into consideration (even though that might still be a little overpowered, once again i havent played sin enough to know their average damage vs wars.)
so if im totally wrong say so, if i explained your thoughts to the masses then i hope i got the ideas right :/
also your suggestion is either confusingly written or i just havent played sins enough to understand what you mean, but from what it sounds like is that you want all crit hits to ignore damage by speccing 1 into crit strikes. i doubt thats what you really mean because that would be way overpowered. it also could be interpreted that you want it to scale upwards by your chance of critical hits to do armor penetration (ignore armor)... so basically with 12 dagger mastery and 13 crit strikes you would have ~40% armor penetration on all critical strikes. i think people would take that into consideration (even though that might still be a little overpowered, once again i havent played sin enough to know their average damage vs wars.)
so if im totally wrong say so, if i explained your thoughts to the masses then i hope i got the ideas right :/
Coloneh
critical strikes is great. go fix strength or soul reaping.
Isil`Zha
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trylo
also your suggestion is either confusingly written or i just havent played sins enough to understand what you mean, but from what it sounds like is that you want all crit hits to ignore damage by speccing 1 into crit strikes. i doubt thats what you really mean because that would be way overpowered. it also could be interpreted that you want it to scale upwards by your chance of critical hits to do armor penetration (ignore armor)... so basically with 12 dagger mastery and 13 crit strikes you would have ~40% armor penetration on all critical strikes. i think people would take that into consideration (even though that might still be a little overpowered, once again i havent played sin enough to know their average damage vs wars.)
so if im totally wrong say so, if i explained your thoughts to the masses then i hope i got the ideas right :/ No, it probably seems that way cause I was talking about it as if AL affected your chance to critical strike, which I now know it does... it just has to do with level.
So, by basing it on the correct value, my suggestion would fix Critical Strikes for PvE, and have no affect whatsoever on PvP.So, now that I know, here's my modified suggestion:
In PvE, as previously mentioned, the Assassin's e-management gets nerfed to almost nothing because of the huge level difference of high-level enemies.
Speccing 1 into Critical Strikes would make it so that the reduction in the ability to make critical hits, is capped at level 20. IE: When playing as an Assassin, if you come up against a level 27 monster, your chance to critical will be as though you were attacking a level 20 monster, not the damage done by the critcals, just the chance to land a critical hit.
As you can see, since everyone in PvP is already level 20, this would have no affect on PvP whatsoever, and not shove Assassin's out of late-game areas by making their primary attribute nearly useless.
rick1027
its funny its one of the few primaries i like. one that works fine as it is. if you wanna fix a primary go strength or soul reaping or fast casting
Samurai-JM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isil`Zha
So, by basing it on the correct value, my suggestion would fix Critical Strikes for PvE, and have no affect whatsoever on PvP.So, now that I know, here's my modified suggestion:
In PvE, as previously mentioned, the Assassin's e-management gets nerfed to almost nothing because of the huge level difference of high-level enemies.
Speccing 1 into Critical Strikes would make it so that the reduction in the ability to make critical hits, is capped at level 20. IE: When playing as an Assassin, if you come up against a level 27 monster, your chance to critical will be as though you were attacking a level 20 monster, not the damage done by the critcals, just the chance to land a critical hit.
As you can see, since everyone in PvP is already level 20, this would have no affect on PvP whatsoever, and not shove Assassin's out of late-game areas by making their primary attribute nearly useless. Since when has the chance to land a crit been determined by enemy armor?
I never noticed, probably since I just use Critical Strike in builds where I actually need crits. But if it is determined by armor, then this is a good suggestion. I thought it was only from the level of CS, meaning 0% on non assassins and +13% at 13 CS.If it is affected as you say, then /signed.
Skyy High
Assassins are far better at taking out enemy warriors than any other physical profession. The vast majority of their damage comes from +damage on their skills, and conditions like deep wound, both of which are armor ignoring. High armor does basically nothing to defend against an assassin, since armor will only reduce it's already-pitiful auto attack damage.
Summary: you're trying to fix the assassin for a problem that is not there.
Summary: you're trying to fix the assassin for a problem that is not there.
Alleji
Critical strikes don't need to be fixed.
First, assassin damage is nearly unaffected by armor. Daggers do pitiful base damage anyway and 80% of assassin's damage is from bonus on attack and conditions, both of which ignore armor.
Second, critical chance is based on level, not AL, so in PvP you always have same crit%. In PvE, doing less damage to higher level mobs is only in line with other classes, such as warrior, dervish, paragon, ele, and rit, who all get hindered by higher armor of high-level mobs.
Next time please do some research before posting an argument that completely falls apart because you got your facts wrong.
First, assassin damage is nearly unaffected by armor. Daggers do pitiful base damage anyway and 80% of assassin's damage is from bonus on attack and conditions, both of which ignore armor.
Second, critical chance is based on level, not AL, so in PvP you always have same crit%. In PvE, doing less damage to higher level mobs is only in line with other classes, such as warrior, dervish, paragon, ele, and rit, who all get hindered by higher armor of high-level mobs.
Next time please do some research before posting an argument that completely falls apart because you got your facts wrong.
LightningHell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tan Blademaster
I can't really belive anyone is complaining about CS. It's a pretty dam good Primary Attritube as far as they go.
I mean, look at Strength - now THAT's a bad attribute.
THe only problem that you could argue however, is the fact that the breakpoint for 3 energy is 13 CS, which is quite high, thus reducing the amount of other attributes you can specify in. But that's only if I'm nitpicking.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Samurai-JM
Since when has the chance to land a crit been determined by enemy armor?
I never noticed, probably since I just use Critical Strike in builds where I actually need crits. But if it is determined by armor, then this is a good suggestion. I thought it was only from the level of CS, meaning 0% on non assassins and +13% at 13 CS.If it is affected as you say, then /signed. So, according to your logic...Warriors, Dervishes, and Paragons would have no chance to crit?
Sol Deathgard
I actually have no problems getting energy from critical strikes from any class, Warriors included. Armor level does not matter on getting a critical strike. If you are having energy problems, then you need to raise your Critical Strikes att a little more to increase the chance of getting one.
LightningHell
13 Critical Strikes should be what you're aiming for, as that's the breakpoint for 3 energy per critical hit.
Xiaxhou of Trinity
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick1027
its funny its one of the few primaries i like. one that works fine as it is. if you wanna fix a primary go strength or soul reaping or fast casting
you just attacked the warrior......REDENGINEGOREDENGINEGORED......
Strength is in no need of being fixed, it's the warrior's strongest attribute (i suppose you're no warrior..). Soul Reaping can be conditional on it's benefit but it seems balanced enough. Fast Casting has it's uses here and there though is not widely used, a few more skills in this attribute would help. IMO I do not have much energy problem with assassin (zealous dags with their fast attack speed and black lotus strike =]). Though I have to say that maybe an increase in Critical percentage that is a bonus from Critical Strikes attribute can be beneficial. I was trying to run a Crit Ranger with Disrupting Accuracy and etc, running 16 crit strikes (decently experienced sin my sin is about a month old) and I did not have many interrupts with the build. Of course it relies on near 24/7 criticals, and the attack speed on the bow is a bit slower than daggers but I was still hitting criticals.....though just not very much. The thing is you need to pump up Crit Strikes so high to get casual criticals, and at 10 it is near useless aside from it's skills. Great att though! lol
LightningHell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaxhou of Trinity
you just attacked the warrior......REDENGINEGOREDENGINEGORED......
Strength is in no need of being fixed, it's the warrior's strongest attribute (i suppose you're no warrior..). Soul Reaping can be conditional on it's benefit but it seems balanced enough. Fast Casting has it's uses here and there though is not widely used, a few more skills in this attribute would help. Strength is the Warrior's strongest attribute... ...until you take into consideration the three Weapon Masteries.
Yanman.be
I do agree on Critical Strikes limiting sin builds ( especially dagger users ).
You basically NEED 13 crit strikes. that leaves little to no extra points for other attributes.
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaxhou of Trinity
Strength is in no need of being fixed, it's the warrior's strongest attribute
thats all i could read, it was to funny. strength is the worst primary attribute by far. adding AP? how useless is that. go try your warrior with 0 strength and tell me what the damage difference is.
Samurai-JM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningHell
Expanding on that point, the reason why people spec into Strength is because it has worthwhile skills, like Enraging Charge. Strength may be a pile of crap, but it grows beautiful roses.
So, according to your logic...Warriors, Dervishes, and Paragons would have no chance to crit?
sry, +0%, not just 0 xD
Trylo
you guys arent listening... he only wants it so that it is easier to maintain energy in higher level PVE areas... it wouldnt affect hitting warriors in pvp, it would stay the same. i dont have a sin in high level areas, i wouldnt know how bad it truly is. i would say that it cannot be as much as a gimp compared to any other class, and it is probably balanced compared to other classes...
rick1027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaxhou of Trinity
you just attacked the warrior......REDENGINEGOREDENGINEGORED......
Strength is in no need of being fixed, it's the warrior's strongest attribute (i suppose you're no warrior..). Soul Reaping can be conditional on it's benefit but it seems balanced enough. Fast Casting has it's uses here and there though is not widely used, a few more skills in this attribute would help. IMO I do not have much energy problem with assassin (zealous dags with their fast attack speed and black lotus strike =]). Though I have to say that maybe an increase in Critical percentage that is a bonus from Critical Strikes attribute can be beneficial. I was trying to run a Crit Ranger with Disrupting Accuracy and etc, running 16 crit strikes (decently experienced sin my sin is about a month old) and I did not have many interrupts with the build. Of course it relies on near 24/7 criticals, and the attack speed on the bow is a bit slower than daggers but I was still hitting criticals.....though just not very much. The thing is you need to pump up Crit Strikes so high to get casual criticals, and at 10 it is near useless aside from it's skills. Great att though! lol sad fact is warrior is one of my first chars and is the one i hold many titles o. and strength doesn't make that much of a difference. i always thought tactics was a much better line but that may be my opinion
Kiba of hidden leaf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
thats all i could read, it was to funny. strength is the worst primary attribute by far. adding AP? how useless is that. go try your warrior with 0 strength and tell me what the damage difference is.
This is the difference:
16 Swords 10 Str - 0 Str Auto attack: 2 dmg average difference Pure Strike: 6 dmg average difference Dragon Slash: 9 dmg difference The more dmg you are dealing out the more penetration gives you in DPS. Using an axe or hammer would be more efficient than a sword for strength. Mending wammos 
LightningHell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiba of hidden leaf
This is the difference:
16 Swords 10 Str - 0 Str Auto attack: 2 dmg average difference Pure Strike: 6 dmg average difference Dragon Slash: 9 dmg difference The more dmg you are dealing out the more penetration gives you in DPS. Using an axe or hammer would be more efficient than a sword for strength. Mending wammos
Strength gives you armor penetration only if you're using an attack skill. That already makes your little chart wrong.Also, the added damage from an attack skill is already armor ignoring, so it only adds the AP to the base damage on an attack skill.
viper11025
Sins need 80 armor OR more powerful skills.
It takes a pro to use them.I finally got my sin build perfected!It took 3 months 
Crazyvietguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by viper11025
Sins need 80 armor OR more powerful skills.
It takes a pro to use them.I finally got my sin build perfected!It took 3 months
WOW... umm so basically you want to make the warrior useless? An assassin with 80AL would compeltely render the Warrior worthless because not only would it have close to the same AL, Assassins have much better defense skills. Assassins have pretty powerful combos on their own, while a minor buff in some skills would be handy it isnt crucial. And.. it doesnt take a pro to use them, just takes practice. AND the assassin primary is fine. One of the few primarys that can work for ANY melee class. Critical Strikes > Strength.. any day
Dr Strangelove
Spawning power would just like to poke its head in here and tell you to stop whining about ineffective primary attributes.
LightningHell
Quote:
Originally Posted by viper11025
Sins need 80 armor OR more powerful skills.
It takes a pro to use them.I finally got my sin build perfected!It took 3 months
Please stop making them even more skillless than they already are in PvP.
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