Rune trade, slightly unrealistic - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Roshi_ikkyu

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Mo/W

27 Apr 2007 at 08:05 - 1

I just got an armour piece with a Sup Absorption rune attached. I go to check the prices at the rune trader and find that he doesn't have any listed.

So if its not listed it means his run out right, as in has no stock.
So I salvage the rune and decide to help the trader out and supply the rune as a sale.
But on pricing the rune its suggests 160 gold, so I'm like ok we'll see what the QUOTED price is.
I request a quote and get 25g...

A rune that he has sold out of, has the suggested price, before asking for a quote, at 160. But then is only willing to pay me 25g for it!

What the F@#$! I'm about ready to report the trader for unfair trading, and while I'm at it report his butt to Anet, for scamming! lol :P

RTSFirebat

The Humanoid Typhoon

Join Date: May 2005

UK

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

R/

27 Apr 2007 at 08:08 - 2

Its because the rune is very common and people sell it to the Rune trader all the time. So of course the price he gives when selling is very low.

Trader of course always sells higher to make a "profit".

Its supply and demand. Always been that way.

Roshi_ikkyu

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Mo/W

27 Apr 2007 at 08:12 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Its because the rune is very common and people sell it to the Rune trader all the time. So of course the price he gives when selling is very low.

Trader of course always sells higher to make a "profit".

Its supply and demand. Always been that way.

I know that, supply and demand and its always been that way.

But if its following the true idea of supply and demand. Shouldn't it buy the rune from players at a higher rate when its out of stock?

Rhedd

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

You ever have to clean up after a Moa bird?

True Solunastra [SLA] Profession: Moa Wrangler

27 Apr 2007 at 08:38 - 4

Personally, I think any system where an NPC buys an item for any less than 50% of what they will sell it for is just unnecessarily jackassed.

Cacheelma

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Ascalon Union

Me/Mo

27 Apr 2007 at 09:17 - 5

Are you SURE it's out of stock?

I've just checked and it's there. 100g each.

Shyft the Pyro

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

NYC, USA

E/Mo

27 Apr 2007 at 09:22 - 6

You're getting an offer of 25g from the trader because 1) the trader already has a large quantity of said rune in stock, and 2) you did not identify the rune after salvaging. If you had, the bottom line of the rune's description in your inventory would read "Value: X gold." That, then, would be the lowest price the rune trader offers, instead of the default lowest price of 25 gold.

You can witness the same price jump when selling item components that were identified prior to being salvaged. These will have no value on them and the merchant will offer you the base price of 25g for each. If you actually take the time to ID them again, the "value" line will show a higher number. A similar thing happens with white, unidentified items: their "value" after IDing is always higher that the merchant's original offer, even if it only rises by 1g.

phil_carter

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2006

[GODS]

R/E

27 Apr 2007 at 09:53 - 7

how does it suggest a price if it has none? perhaps some other people sold them just before you did and the buying price went back to 100.

Taala

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

27 Apr 2007 at 10:03 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

Are you SURE it's out of stock?

I've just checked and it's there. 100g each.

I also checked shortly after this thread was posted. Minors and majors but no superiors in stock at the time.

Aera

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Galactic President Superstar Mc [awsm]

E/

27 Apr 2007 at 11:32 - 9

Superior Absorption runes gave me a traumatic experience

Before Factions came out, I thought everyone would need those a lot because they were going to buy new armor. Then Anet decided to to vastly increase the drop rate of those runes. I paid 90k each, and I bought like 6 of those. In total, I think I had about 350k loss

( Just a random story :P )

Roshi_ikkyu

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Mo/W

27 Apr 2007 at 11:34 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

You're getting an offer of 25g from the trader because 1) the trader already has a large quantity of said rune in stock,

I love when people ignore reading the original post!
I said the rune trader was out of stock, and too prove it because I knew at some point I would come across someone more interested in debating semantics then talking about the problem, I took scrn caps. And its clearly not listed in the sales list!

Still it doesn't make sense, the trader is out of the item... so he offers me only 25g for it... when its going to most likely sell for higher straight away since it would be the only stock.

lucifer_uk

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

Nottingham, England

The Venerable Truth [TvT] The Venerable Alliance [TvH] [TvL]

R/

27 Apr 2007 at 11:38 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

I love when people ignore reading the original post!
I said the rune trader was out of stock, and too prove it because I knew at some point I would come across someone more interested in debating semantics then talking about the problem, I took scrn caps. And its clearly not listed in the sales list!

Still it doesn't make sense, the trader is out of the item... so he offers me only 25g for it... when its going to most likely sell for higher straight away since it would be the only stock.

I'm gonna ask an obvious question don't shout back but you know some of the mistakes we can make. Are you sure it wasn't 25k?

Taala

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

27 Apr 2007 at 11:54 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_uk

I'm gonna ask an obvious question don't shout back but you know some of the mistakes we can make. Are you sure it wasn't 25k?

Haha, sup abs is the rune in question here. Not sup vigor.

lucifer_uk

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

Nottingham, England

The Venerable Truth [TvT] The Venerable Alliance [TvH] [TvL]

R/

27 Apr 2007 at 11:56 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taala

Haha, sup abs is the rune in question here. Not sup vigor.

O_o

As mentioned before... the mistakes we make

Roshi_ikkyu

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Mo/W

27 Apr 2007 at 11:57 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_uk

I'm gonna ask an obvious question don't shout back but you know some of the mistakes we can make. Are you sure it wasn't 25k?

lol ok I won't snap... wait I can't your asking something I haven't answered or mentioned yet.

No it wasn't 25K... it should have been :P ok maybe not that much

Patchouli Knowledge

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2007

27 Apr 2007 at 12:06 - 15

I got two of these today. Usually I check the trader before taking the runes out of the salvage armors, if the price is terrible, I normally just merchant the armor with the rune since every gold armor+rune that I remember seeing has been >200g, so to me it's not worth the 47% chance (seeker 1) of destroying the scrap for the ID price of the rune (around 175g is the best I've gotten as the value price for an ID'ed superior rune)

Since he didn't have any sup. absorptions I decided to take one of them out to see what sort of price they offer for an out-of-stock item, and also got offered 25g, then was offered the value price after IDing it.

I don't see how they'd reasonably restock "cheap" runes that sold out this way, except with a large rank of treasure hunter and a large rank of seeker of wisdom, it doesn't seem worth the risk vs. the immediate merchant value to salvage the rune out, some of those armor fragments I've had have had 450g+ merchant value...

Sk8tborderx

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

PA

Us Are Not [leet]

W/

27 Apr 2007 at 12:07 - 16

They really need to do something about the rune traders pricing, I bought the last attunement rune the other day, and only paid 250g, that is too low of a price when there are very few in stock.

Gargle Blaster

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

27 Apr 2007 at 12:38 - 17

i thought the price dropped b/c they only work for physical damage and people are using elemental weapons.

Hengis

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

London

Better Than Life (BTL)

R/

27 Apr 2007 at 12:54 - 18

I had exactly the same experience with exactly the same rune last night.

Rune was out of stock. Last traded price was 160g. Trader offered me 25g.
If the rune is out of stock, then obviously demand is greater than supply, so in theory the rune trader should be increasing his buy price not decreasing it.

As you can probably guess, the rune is still in my inventory!

Taala

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

27 Apr 2007 at 12:57 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster

i thought the price dropped b/c they only work for physical damage and people are using elemental weapons.

Yes, that brought the demand down. However, the traders are supposed to adjust their price depending on supply also. Now the demand has gone past the supply, yet the trader offers the lowest possible price for someone selling the rune to it.

Frankly I don't see why anyone would even bother salvaging the rune to sell it to the npc. The only way for supply and demand to work here is that players don't sell to the trader anymore, keeping it out of stock, and then just start trading with each other with higher price. Clearly the trader isn't working as intended.

lucifer_uk

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

Nottingham, England

The Venerable Truth [TvT] The Venerable Alliance [TvH] [TvL]

R/

27 Apr 2007 at 13:03 - 20

Personally I think runes should be slightly rarer.
Also the trader really does need fixing, if something is out of stock it should theoretically catch a larger price.

Sophitia Leafblade

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Dragon Slayer Guild [DSG]

R/

27 Apr 2007 at 13:18 - 21

I dont how people say how common this rune is now, ive been playing for almost 2 years and i still havnt found a single sup absorbtion

then again thats my luck all over

But i dont quite get why its Out of stock, if its that price it should be well in stock. Are u sure ur looking in the right area? (it was moved a while back)

Taala

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

27 Apr 2007 at 13:25 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

Are u sure ur looking in the right area? (it was moved a while back)

Yes, yes, right area. It's as I said earlier, there were minors and majors but no superiors for sale. Unless the superiors are in different area alone.

lucifer_uk

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

Nottingham, England

The Venerable Truth [TvT] The Venerable Alliance [TvH] [TvL]

R/

27 Apr 2007 at 13:30 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taala

Unless the superiors are in different area alone.

Nope they are in the same area.
I've never really paid attention to that rune but will watch out for more evidence of this and maybe we could suggest a change in the suggestion forum.

Sophitia Leafblade

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Dragon Slayer Guild [DSG]

R/

27 Apr 2007 at 13:32 - 24

hmm strange. I would check (not that is disbelieve u but so i can see for myself) but i cant get on gw atm. Which server are you on? (or does it occur on all the servers)

Taala

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

27 Apr 2007 at 13:43 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

Which server are you on? (or does it occur on all the servers)

European, but I doubt it matters. What would international servers use then? At any rate, it is out of stock currently in Euro and Int servers.

Zolderick

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2006

Australia

N/

27 Apr 2007 at 13:56 - 26

If it were rarer it would be harder to unlock for PvP. Wasn't the whole link between PvE and PvP the original idea behind GW?

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

27 Apr 2007 at 16:10 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

You're getting an offer of 25g from the trader because 1) the trader already has a large quantity of said rune in stock, and 2) you did not identify the rune after salvaging. If you had, the bottom line of the rune's description in your inventory would read "Value: X gold." That, then, would be the lowest price the rune trader offers, instead of the default lowest price of 25 gold.

You can witness the same price jump when selling item components that were identified prior to being salvaged. These will have no value on them and the merchant will offer you the base price of 25g for each. If you actually take the time to ID them again, the "value" line will show a higher number. A similar thing happens with white, unidentified items: their "value" after IDing is always higher that the merchant's original offer, even if it only rises by 1g.

The second part of this is wrong. When you ID a rune, the value you see will be what the merchant will give you. The rune trader doesn't pay that price; he'll still pay 25g for most unwanted runes, even if your rune will sell to the merc for more. This is why you should check prices before salvaging any rune from an armor; if the armor is worth more at the merchant than the rune would be worth to the rune trader, don't bother salvaging it, just sell it to the merchant.

In this case, the rune trader may have been out of supply momentarily, but the overwhelming trend for the past couple of months has been for sup abs to be very low. Therefore, people have for the most part stopped selling them to the trader, and they will occassionally run out of supply. HOWEVER, this does NOT mean that the trader should offer a ridiculous sum for it, just because someone bought his last couple of runes and he's out at the moment. If this were the case, someone could buy up one of the unwanted runes at 100g per until he was out of stock, and sell them back to him at an inflated price. The price increase when the trader is out of stock must be only a slight increase to avoid this kind of trade exploit.

Now, if the trader is low on stock continously, and people buy up the runes rapidly for a long period of time, you would see the rune price steadily increase. However, you're only looking at a small period of time where the rune was sold out. This does not correlate to a long-term trend or increase in demand, therefore the price should not be any greater than what he showed.

Father of The Son of God

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2007

B(r, sun) where r > 0

27 Apr 2007 at 17:02 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

In this case, the rune trader may have been out of supply momentarily, but the overwhelming trend for the past couple of months has been for sup abs to be very low. Therefore, people have for the most part stopped selling them to the trader, and they will occassionally run out of supply. HOWEVER, this does NOT mean that the trader should offer a ridiculous sum for it, just because someone bought his last couple of runes and he's out at the moment. If this were the case, someone could buy up one of the unwanted runes at 100g per until he was out of stock, and sell them back to him at an inflated price. The price increase when the trader is out of stock must be only a slight increase to avoid this kind of trade exploit.

Now, if the trader is low on stock continously, and people buy up the runes rapidly for a long period of time, you would see the rune price steadily increase. However, you're only looking at a small period of time where the rune was sold out. This does not correlate to a long-term trend or increase in demand, therefore the price should not be any greater than what he showed.

Yeah, I was going to suggest the same thing. I was wondering: if one trader is out, does that mean all traders are out? Also, do traders everywhere tend to offer the same price, or can you find one in a less-traveled area that offers better prices?

Saint Troy

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

LowLifeScum.:LLS:. MultiGamingClan

Random Factors Aligned [RFA]

27 Apr 2007 at 17:25 - 29

I feel I must point out something that obviously not everyone knows.

In my experience, if you ID an item, the price you get for it is always the IDd price.

So, if the rune trader offers you 25g, this is because it is the IDd price of the item, or you have not IDd the item.

Garreth MacLeod

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

27 Apr 2007 at 17:35 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_uk

Personally I think runes should be slightly rarer.
Also the trader really does need fixing, if something is out of stock it should theoretically catch a larger price.

Superior Absorption used to be worth a lot more and I remember a couple times when the rune trader was out and offered this same paltry sum. It does seem to be a bit broke, doesn't it...

Taala

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

27 Apr 2007 at 17:35 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

someone could buy up one of the unwanted runes at 100g per until he was out of stock, and sell them back to him at an inflated price.

If the traders would work on supply and demand basis (which is what even Gaile has said to be the case), the price would start rising as the trader gets closer to the end of it's supply. Also you couldn't be able to just buy loads of them for 100g as you must buy each of them one at a time and hit that Request price button in between.

But here we are, rune is out of stock and the merchant buys them for the lowest possible amount. I'm really curious how the Anet's supply and demand system work when this is possible.

brennerv

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2006

Armada of Heaven

27 Apr 2007 at 17:41 - 32

This happened to me several weeks ago, so I longer recall what specific rune it was (could have been Sup Abs as well). I went to see the selling price before salvaging and there were none in stock. I expected this would mean a high price, so I salvaged it and was offered the minimum. It seems pretty straightforward to me; the price-setting algorithm is based on supply and demand, but when supply equals zero the math doesn't work out. Rather than remembering the last asking price, it seems to treat it as an item its never seen before and thus starts with minimum price. Almost certainly a math error behind the scenes going on here...

Roshi_ikkyu

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Mo/W

27 Apr 2007 at 17:55 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Troy

I feel I must point out something that obviously not everyone knows.

In my experience, if you ID an item, the price you get for it is always the IDd price.

So, if the rune trader offers you 25g, this is because it is the IDd price of the item, or you have not IDd the item.

I must point out your wrong. When it comes to selling the rune to merchs, it help to ID them. But with RUNE traders, they offer u a quoted price following a supply and demand policy. Now I already stated it was pre-quote listed as 160g the merch ID price. But since the rune trader was out of stock the rune trader price should have been higher.
And it doesn't require you to ID salvaged runes you can but its not required.

I wonder about these forums sometimes.

1. Yes I'm checking in the correct spot! No rune in the traders stock. I even double checked and went thru the traders whole inventory.

2. You have to ID a rune to know what your salvaging from the armour. If you try to explain how this is wrong. Then explain how I just looted a gold armour and IDed the armour to find a Sup Vigor, which I traded to the rune trader and got a quoted price. (gold armour = nameless rune. Sup Vigor armour = Sup Vigor rune)

3. All the traders in a server are linked and sell only what is supplied by players, at the same rate and prices. No matter where they are. (Thats Anets official story)

4.Traders may not be linked across the GW universe, I don't know, I play the NA servers so there could be runes in the Euro servers.

I always heard Anet speak of supply and demand in explanation to Runes traders and prices.
But I just proved them wrong.
Rune trader has no Sup Absorption runes. He can't sell said runes cause he doesn't have any, meaning there is either high demand or low supply.
The lack of supply means he needs to get more. But why then is he ripping me off, offering 25g.
When minor runes in stock are going for higher. He doesn't even have any Sup Absorption to sell, hench he needs my supply but as a matter of sheer stubboness, I'm not sell it to him! I would rather merch it :P

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

27 Apr 2007 at 18:08 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

In this case, the rune trader may have been out of supply momentarily, but the overwhelming trend for the past couple of months has been for sup abs to be very low. Therefore, people have for the most part stopped selling them to the trader, and they will occassionally run out of supply. HOWEVER, this does NOT mean that the trader should offer a ridiculous sum for it, just because someone bought his last couple of runes and he's out at the moment. If this were the case, someone could buy up one of the unwanted runes at 100g per until he was out of stock, and sell them back to him at an inflated price. The price increase when the trader is out of stock must be only a slight increase to avoid this kind of trade exploit.

Now, if the trader is low on stock continously, and people buy up the runes rapidly for a long period of time, you would see the rune price steadily increase. However, you're only looking at a small period of time where the rune was sold out. This does not correlate to a long-term trend or increase in demand, therefore the price should not be any greater than what he showed.

This sounds like the most reasonable explanation. Obviously, the pricing structure is more complex than just "out of stock = uber gold".

william1975

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Scotland

Dragons of Torment (DOA)

Me/

27 Apr 2007 at 18:26 - 35

I had the same thing happen when i got a new necro hero in, I went looking for a few runes, and there were none in the trader, so a friend gave me one i went to check the price and not only was it cheap, about 400g but it was about half the value it had beent he previous week when in stock.

I agree that if an item is out of stock it should be a lot higher in price no matter how much demand there is, obviuosly if there is low supply and demand there should not be as much as low supply and high demand, but 25g for something that is not there is silly!

With all these heroes runnign about, you would think demand would be up, I equip mine with the best i can find, and buy it if I dont have it, I would imagine most others do too, but the prices for virtually all runes to buy now is 100g, and to sell 25g. This is just wrong, I havent had a single superior rune for the ritualist in a year and the price for them is rediculously low. In one year i have had 2 superior vigors, and the price of it has droped 7 k in the last week, monk runes have lost a few k off them too. The market for these seems to be going to pot. every time i get a superior rune i think, hopefully its a vigor, otherwise its just plain rubbish i dont need, I wont make money from it.

Last point is that when i sell rare material or even common material i see the price come down as i sell it, and when the fireworks were in demand, the price of glittering dust skyrocketed, and i made a wee fortune selling it to the trader, this system does not seem to be in evidence at the rune trader, not when they have no stock and still buy for a rubbish price

Father of The Son of God

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2007

B(r, sun) where r > 0

27 Apr 2007 at 20:00 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

3. All the traders in a server are linked and sell only what is supplied by players, at the same rate and prices. No matter where they are. (Thats Anets official story)

4.Traders may not be linked across the GW universe, I don't know, I play the NA servers so there could be runes in the Euro servers.

Thanks for the answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

I always heard Anet speak of supply and demand in explanation to Runes traders and prices.
But I just proved them wrong.
Rune trader has no Sup Absorption runes. He can't sell said runes cause he doesn't have any, meaning there is either high demand or low supply.
The lack of supply means he needs to get more. But why then is he ripping me off, offering 25g.

Now don't go assuming too much. There's a good possibility that the trader has a memory of prices too. Just because he's temporarily out, doesn't mean he should go on a buying spree. Until people hold out on him for a while, then he might get desperate.

But also, he may know from his history that the rune sells for no more than 160, in 99% of cases (I am entirely making numbers up here). He may have a margin of 135 (he will not buy & sell at same price). So if he knows he'll "never" sell the rune for more than 160, then he just won't buy for more than 25.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

When minor runes in stock are going for higher. He doesn't even have any Sup Absorption to sell, hench he needs my supply but as a matter of sheer stubboness, I'm not sell it to him! I would rather merch it :P

Heh minor runes of absorption are going for more? That's funny--I need to find the people that he's been selling to.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

27 Apr 2007 at 20:04 - 37

I recall reading that the traders have been bugged for quite some time with sup Abs, reporting that the runes aren't in stock when they are in fact.

darkknightdominator

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2006

Scotland

Greedy Monkeys

E/Mo

27 Apr 2007 at 21:09 - 38

I hate mesmer runes. Do mesmers ever buy runes?

darkorical

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

In the forgotten corners of your mind where the nightmare things live

Biscuit Of Dewm

E/Mo

27 Apr 2007 at 21:13 - 39

always remember the regular merch will give you the recomended price.

also the minimum for runes is 25g wich is what the merch will pay for minors if the rune trader offers you 25g take it to the merch. Items sold to merch are essentially destroyed runes however go back into rotation so if everyone were to sell the 25g runes to the merch they become rarer and thusly eventually the rune trader will pay more for them

Yawgmoth

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

27 Apr 2007 at 21:47 - 40

Most people here don't know it but Sup Absorption Rune has always been bugged at the trader. It's different than other runes, and I observed the bug some time back in 2005. And it's still not fixed.

It's probably the only rune which when bought out of the trader does not reappear when sold back to him. (maybe minor/major abs work this way too, not tested). As long as trader has at least 1 of them in stock, the price he will pay for next one will be normal, just like every other rune at this price level. But after the last one gets bought out, his buy price resets and he offers the minimum merch value of a sup rune = 100g for them. And he will buy tons of them at 100g ea and never restock on them.

I was able to reproduce this bug on the beta server, here's a screenshot made just a couple minutes ago: