Ok, so today I was selling an item in kamadan (specifics arnt needed) and I got accused of a scam.
What happened:
1. I was spamming to sell my item.
2. random_guy1 offered a price on my item.
3. I told random_guy1 "deal" to his offer.
4. We put items in trade window when random_guy2 offered for my item.
5. random_guy2 offered more than random_guy1.
6. I told random_guy1 "someone just offered more, sorry"
7. I sell item to random_guy2.
Now random_guy1 is calling me a scammer and said he had screenshots and was reporting to anet. to me, this sounds dumb cause i didnt trick or swindle either players in any way (which i thought was the definition of a scam).
am i wrong here? should i be worried about him reporting me?
Is this a scam?
ropes782
Evilsod
random_guy1 is an idiot.
And Anet do jackshit to scammers even if they actually have done something wrong anyway.
And Anet do jackshit to scammers even if they actually have done something wrong anyway.
Dmc1281
I wouldn't use the word scammer, however that was not nice.
You agreed to sell it to guy 1, even if someone offers more, at that point you suck it up and sell it to the one you had a deal with first.
I've been there and I have sold it for less money because that is what I have agreed to.
You agreed to sell it to guy 1, even if someone offers more, at that point you suck it up and sell it to the one you had a deal with first.
I've been there and I have sold it for less money because that is what I have agreed to.
Arkantos
Lol..no, it's not a scam, and ANet won't do anything about it.
Marcell
As long as you didn't take his money, your in the clear. I hope he does send that to Anet, so they set him straight.
countesscorpula
Not a scam, but not good trade etiquette either.
Once you said "deal" to the one guy, you pretty much made a deal for a trade. If he showed up to the trade window and tride to offer you less, or asked you to wait for X amount of time, that wasn't part of the arrangement, and you can feel free to back out. But it's just poor trading manners to agree to sell something and then pull out afer you met and set up the trade window. Did he put less money in the trade window than what you said "deal" to? So, though you may not be a scammer, you aren't exactly a trader worthy of respect. You may have made more money, but you lost some credibility.
Once you said "deal" to the one guy, you pretty much made a deal for a trade. If he showed up to the trade window and tride to offer you less, or asked you to wait for X amount of time, that wasn't part of the arrangement, and you can feel free to back out. But it's just poor trading manners to agree to sell something and then pull out afer you met and set up the trade window. Did he put less money in the trade window than what you said "deal" to? So, though you may not be a scammer, you aren't exactly a trader worthy of respect. You may have made more money, but you lost some credibility.
holababe
The scam here revolves around you pretending to get higher bids to artificially drive up the price.
But you didn't so you won't get banned.
But you didn't so you won't get banned.
Godo th great
I would agree that this isn't a scam but very poor trading manners. One variation someone tried to involve me with was random spammer 1 accepted my bid on a mini and wouldn't open the trade with me but kept asking me to join his team. I hit accept and find him and another person on the team and then he says let the bidding begin. I told him I don't trade that way and left. Was he trying to scam? Maybe, maybe not. How do I know though that the other person wasn't a guildie? To me it just isn't worth the chance.
holababe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Godo th great
How do I know though that the other person wasn't a guildie? To me it just isn't worth the chance.
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Isileth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by holababe
Because you could have looked at their guild tags?
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darkk wound
he got gerzumped fair play to the OPoster
lakatz
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Originally Posted by Marcell
As long as you didn't take his money, your in the clear. I hope he does send that to Anet, so they set him straight.
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Smile Like Umean It
It isn't a scam, but you have poor trading ethics.
Not sure I'd want to ever trade with you.
Not sure I'd want to ever trade with you.
SlippyJack
Ya, I hate guys like you. Get some intergrity for goodness sakes.
Trakata
It's not a scam, but as a businessman I personally hate when people do that to me. random_guy1 has a right to be pissed, but you didn't scam him.
Tannim
Well, your on a few blacklist thanks to your corrupt dealings. You made a deal, and backed out of it. There's a reason for people like you getting run out of towns in real life 
Since you admitted your a bad person .. well, thanks for letting everybody know.
Since you admitted your a bad person .. well, thanks for letting everybody know.
Lothlorian Sassun
This a Market Economy and always take the highest price you can get for an item. You didn't scam anybody and did exactly what i would have done. I don't know how many times I have posted an item in chat with the exact description of the item and price and the buyer will agree to the that price. When the trade window is open they want to barter and get me to sell lower. Most of the time i just close the window. So what goes around comes around. You did not break the EULA so even if they guy does report you nothing will happen cause you broke no rules.
On the down side of that note buyer #2 might do what i mentioned above and you would have lost the sale from buyer #1. But all is fair on an open market so you take the good with the bad.
On the down side of that note buyer #2 might do what i mentioned above and you would have lost the sale from buyer #1. But all is fair on an open market so you take the good with the bad.
Tannim
Thats not exactly true. They both made a deal. He choose to back out of it because he is a greedy person. What you mentioned, when someone tried to barter .. did not happen in this case.
Not only did he lose the buyer #1, but many other people who choose not to deal with greedy, corrupt people.
Not only did he lose the buyer #1, but many other people who choose not to deal with greedy, corrupt people.
HawkofStorms
Greedy? Corrupt?
Wow guys, way to overexagerate. He did nothing wrong. I'm more ticked off about the people who undercut people in guru auctions then this.
Wow guys, way to overexagerate. He did nothing wrong. I'm more ticked off about the people who undercut people in guru auctions then this.
Tannim
Ref: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/greed
What he did, fit the definition of greed, exactly. I dont know. I hate greedy people. Some people don't. But I prefer people with morals and values.
What he did, fit the definition of greed, exactly. I dont know. I hate greedy people. Some people don't. But I prefer people with morals and values.
Xenex Xclame
@Ropes, don't let all these people calling you a bad businessperson,a scammer,greedy or whatever get to you, not everyones is bad as they are,there are also nice people in this game.
Now on to what you did , as holababe pointed out the reason buyer1 called you a scammer is because there is a scam somewhat like that.
1)It revolves around you being in a (this case town) LA1 for example and having a friend there also you offer to sell something at 50K.
2)You get someone(buyer1) that really wants to buy item and says he will buy it.
3)At this point you let your friend know that he should act,which he does is by offering 60K
(and as any normal person would do, you decided you want to make more money so you want to buyer that is offering more)
4)You let buyer1 know that someone (buyer2) has offered more,so you are gonna sell it to him.( like you kindly did)
5)At which point buyer one can do 2 things,
A)offer more in the hopes that you haven't already sold it and that you will take his higher offer.
B)Walk away and lose out on the item he wanted.
This can easily be repeated a few times as long the buyer1 keeps choosing for option A, it just repeats from 3 to 5.
Now that you know Why he called you a scammer, you can keep that in mind next time this happens.
Now on to what you did , as holababe pointed out the reason buyer1 called you a scammer is because there is a scam somewhat like that.
1)It revolves around you being in a (this case town) LA1 for example and having a friend there also you offer to sell something at 50K.
2)You get someone(buyer1) that really wants to buy item and says he will buy it.
3)At this point you let your friend know that he should act,which he does is by offering 60K
(and as any normal person would do, you decided you want to make more money so you want to buyer that is offering more)
4)You let buyer1 know that someone (buyer2) has offered more,so you are gonna sell it to him.( like you kindly did)
5)At which point buyer one can do 2 things,
A)offer more in the hopes that you haven't already sold it and that you will take his higher offer.
B)Walk away and lose out on the item he wanted.
This can easily be repeated a few times as long the buyer1 keeps choosing for option A, it just repeats from 3 to 5.
Now that you know Why he called you a scammer, you can keep that in mind next time this happens.
Tannim
@Xenex: It's really ironic when you call good people, bad people Even with proofs to back up everything. I am sorry that reality escapes some people, but that is by choice Lemme know when you decide to join. I'll show you the ropes
Even with proofs to back up everything. I am sorry that reality escapes some people, but that is by choice Lemme know when you decide to join. I'll show you the ropes
shrouded^god
Its happened to me a few times..the other day I was going to purchase several tomes for a set price after someone was spamming selling with 'pm offer' so...I grabbed the cash, jogged to them and opened trade...they hit cancel and said 'Sorry, someone offered more' which had me annoyed but honestly...90% of players would go with the higher offer...so it didnt erk me too bad.
jpdiaz_diaz
We'll i think he was not a scammer but i agree on he's not a good trader... even if you lose some gold on an item once you say yes... thats a deal right... first come first serve... even if someone else gives you a better deal!!!
Etta
That's why I don't trade in game anymore, unless they're guildies. Guru Auction page is FTW.
Patrick Smit
Comeon, its just market economy, the deal isnt sealed untill the hammer has hit the table. Here people have different conceptions when the hammer hit the wood, and that is creating some different opinions on it.
Basically the deal is being signed when both agree in the trade window, the rest is just part of the trading ritual. I'm an honest guy but saying that the deal is amde when u say yes, is scrap too, imagine that u make a mistake in typing or find out the item is worth much more. Canceling the deal would be flawed? You could also accuse the potential buyer that he didnt warn the seller that he is asking an extreme low price. But no, then it is considered good salesmenship. Sorry the deal is made when both agree in the trade window, not before, not after. Like making up a contract is worth nothing, however the actual signing by both parties validates the process.
If u use an out of game trading procedure u might discuss this, but thats why i am in favor of an in game auction house, which Anet will not make, for whatever reason
Basically the deal is being signed when both agree in the trade window, the rest is just part of the trading ritual. I'm an honest guy but saying that the deal is amde when u say yes, is scrap too, imagine that u make a mistake in typing or find out the item is worth much more. Canceling the deal would be flawed? You could also accuse the potential buyer that he didnt warn the seller that he is asking an extreme low price. But no, then it is considered good salesmenship. Sorry the deal is made when both agree in the trade window, not before, not after. Like making up a contract is worth nothing, however the actual signing by both parties validates the process.
If u use an out of game trading procedure u might discuss this, but thats why i am in favor of an in game auction house, which Anet will not make, for whatever reason
daraaksii
Of course that's not a scam, and A-net don't care about scammers.
Miss Persephone
People are getting awfully upset over nothing here.
Nothing is a deal until the trade window is open and both players have accepted the trade. No matter if you say 'deal', it isn't until the trade is complete. Unlucky for the first buyer, and perhaps bad trading etiquette but thats as far as it goes.
Have any of you considered that perhaps the item was being offered far below its market value, and that buyer 1 was annoyed because he missed out on the biggest deal of his GW career? Perhaps buyer 2 was offering a much more reasonable price.
If a seller ever tries to tell me 'someone is offering more' I say fine, and walk away. If they are lying, they lost a deal; if not, then I'll find someone else selling for the price I want to pay.
Nothing is a deal until the trade window is open and both players have accepted the trade. No matter if you say 'deal', it isn't until the trade is complete. Unlucky for the first buyer, and perhaps bad trading etiquette but thats as far as it goes.
Have any of you considered that perhaps the item was being offered far below its market value, and that buyer 1 was annoyed because he missed out on the biggest deal of his GW career? Perhaps buyer 2 was offering a much more reasonable price.
If a seller ever tries to tell me 'someone is offering more' I say fine, and walk away. If they are lying, they lost a deal; if not, then I'll find someone else selling for the price I want to pay.
Lucifer PVP
you are not a scammer the random person was an idiot, happens alot. Sort of like the people that offer you more gold/ecto then you are asking.
lakatz
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame
@Ropes, don't let all these people calling you a bad businessperson,a scammer,greedy or whatever get to you, not everyones is bad as they are,there are also nice people in this game.
Now on to what you did , as holababe pointed out the reason buyer1 called you a scammer is because there is a scam somewhat like that. 1)It revolves around you being in a (this case town) LA1 for example and having a friend there also you offer to sell something at 50K. 2)You get someone(buyer1) that really wants to buy item and says he will buy it. 3)At this point you let your friend know that he should act,which he does is by offering 60K (and as any normal person would do, you decided you want to make more money so you want to buyer that is offering more) 4)You let buyer1 know that someone (buyer2) has offered more,so you are gonna sell it to him.( like you kindly did) 5)At which point buyer one can do 2 things, A)offer more in the hopes that you haven't already sold it and that you will take his higher offer. B)Walk away and lose out on the item he wanted. This can easily be repeated a few times as long the buyer1 keeps choosing for option A, it just repeats from 3 to 5. Now that you know Why he called you a scammer, you can keep that in mind next time this happens. |
martialis
People are opinionated.
That kind of stuff is unacceptable on a trade forum. You'll receive bad feedback and eventually be banned, but it's fine in-game. Definitely not a scam.
That kind of stuff is unacceptable on a trade forum. You'll receive bad feedback and eventually be banned, but it's fine in-game. Definitely not a scam.
TedTheDead
You guys are insane. If someone offers me a free cheeseburger I eat it.
Smile Like Umean It
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Originally Posted by TedTheDead
You guys are insane. If someone offers me a free cheeseburger I eat it.
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MagicWarrior
Not a scam... but it's really poor trade etiquette.
Kuldebar Valiturus
Other than telling randomguy1 that you had a deal, you acted reasonably.
Just be careful next time about those virtual handshake deals, because people do have an expectation that they will be honored. It wasn't a scam, it's more an issue of observing business proprieties.
Just be careful next time about those virtual handshake deals, because people do have an expectation that they will be honored. It wasn't a scam, it's more an issue of observing business proprieties.
TedTheDead
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Originally Posted by Smile Like Umean It
And this relates to the OP how?
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OP had the opportunity to make more money. Image that extra money he did not have to do anything at all to get was a free cheeseburger.
Now make the leap from one to the other at your own pace. If scared, step back and prepare again before additional attempt.
Masseur
He did nothing wrong obviously. Some people might not like it, but he is selling something for the best price, if someone outbids them, they can either bid higher or lose the item. The game is not a perfect environment, lag could have prevented the other buyer from responding in time, whatever. It's just a game.
Kuldebar Valiturus
Simple life lesson, applies to virtual and real:
If you tell someone something, you should mean it.
If you say, "Deal" you take the honorable course by following through with your word.
Now, if you desire profit over virtue or honor, by all means disregard the rules of propriety. But realize that after awhile this will start to define the type of person you are in the eyes of other people. None of us are perfect, it is the standards set by our actions not the exceptions by which we are ultimately judged.
It is all in the difference between virtuous action and something "deemed" illegal. One can be lawful yet lack virtue and one can be unlawful and virtuous.
The OP didn't scam or do anything illegal, but he didn't act in a virtuous manner. The OP obviously senses this to a degree because apparently his doubts prompted him to make a post about it here on these forums.
If you tell someone something, you should mean it.
If you say, "Deal" you take the honorable course by following through with your word.
Now, if you desire profit over virtue or honor, by all means disregard the rules of propriety. But realize that after awhile this will start to define the type of person you are in the eyes of other people. None of us are perfect, it is the standards set by our actions not the exceptions by which we are ultimately judged.
It is all in the difference between virtuous action and something "deemed" illegal. One can be lawful yet lack virtue and one can be unlawful and virtuous.
The OP didn't scam or do anything illegal, but he didn't act in a virtuous manner. The OP obviously senses this to a degree because apparently his doubts prompted him to make a post about it here on these forums.
ShadowsRequiem
wow after reading half of the crap in this thread....
Its a game people, if he wants to sell it for more let him... jeez
I'm sick of hearing all this not greedy shit, everyone is in this game -.-
Its a game people, if he wants to sell it for more let him... jeez
I'm sick of hearing all this not greedy shit, everyone is in this game -.-
Kuldebar Valiturus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem
wow after reading half of the crap in this thread....
Its a game people, if he wants to sell it for more let him... jeez I'm sick of hearing all this not greedy shit, everyone is in this game -.- |
And something being a "game" doesn't remove it from the realm of human interaction.
Historically, games have been treated as sacred and even held to a higher standard than everyday actions. The reasoning is that rules of interaction matter even more in games because games are actually a much purer, concentrated and somewhat ritualistic rendition of the various struggles we can face within our lives.
I would venture to add that most conflicts and unsavory experiences that people have in the worlds of online gaming are largely caused by people thinking that "behavior doesn't matter" because it's "only a game".
In my mind there is no difference between playing a game of softball at the neighborhood ball park and playing an online game. The supposed sense of anonymity doesn't truly absolve the person's lack of civilized conduct. In many ways, the false security brought on by anonymous internet play just brings a person's true nature to the surface.