Giveaways, help us define and make this section for the community

All right, seeing some of the posts in here and I want to clarify some things about this section. I'm also going to ask for your help.

This is a new section here on Guru, we are trying this out and are pleased so far with the response. I think it will be here to stay but we need some ground rules here. Some of the concerns that the Guru staff has in this section is the way to manage it, prevent people from creating multiple accounts just to get stuff, etc.

First up, before I post official rules in another thread I wanted to see if you, the community, has a great way to handle all this.

Should we have a specific format for people to post items as in "everything given away will be random and at the OP's discretion"? I'm leaning toward this because I really don't want to see flame wars erupt over "hey, i posted first that belongs to me." You know it will happen, just nod your head. Either way, if an OP decides to give them away in order or randomly we can establish this as a rule so that people WANTING these items can be clear and not have melt downs when they find out the item has gone to someone else even though they were the "first post wanting it".

Secondly, if you create alternate accounts to get more free items, it's going to be a ban. No one wants to be used/scammed/or to have their generosity abused. Please keep that in mind and that we will find you out.

Third, this is not going to be a place for requests. We have a "Want to Buy" section especially dedicated for requests. Only giveaways will be featured here. Period.

If you have any other concerns as a user posting in this section, feel that one of these rules should be changed (and you must present me with some well-thought and detailed arguements and not just a vague voice of dissent) then please post.

it's always nice to have rules to follow.....
makes life easier..
^^


as for sugestion.....
i know it's hard to do.. but....
there may be a easier way for the OP to update their item list?
as in..... putting the items in a bullet list format when they start the thread.
it can be opened when ppl click on start new thread....
in my idea is... it may look something like 2 lines for 1 item...
1 line is the name..... 2nd line is the detail... such as mod and stuff..... which is optional.

and when they come back... (to the thread they start)
they can see the OP-only option already there for them to edit....
which may contain special colum to add short comments..... such as it's being sold to xxx.
instead of needing to click on editing.
(this same thing can apply to other 3 selling/buying forum too)

although editing works too.. but..... it might be easier..

Hmm, perhaps make the section only viewable to those who have made 50 posts? Or have been a member for 30days or something of the sort?

I love the section and hopefully a lot of good will come from it...but there will be those 'vultures' who sit and wait on new posts to be the first to try and snatch up a rare skin or something with good mods. Thats why in my thread, I gave the item to someone who I felt needed it. Not the first person to ask. I tried to stay away from april 07 joindates unless I could tell they had been active on the forum (avatar, higher than pre-searing cadet, etc) which would seem they had contributed to the forum somewhat. But with the good...comes the bad.

The only way I can see to 'counter' this is perhaps to use the 50 posts or join date to allow them into this section. Which will prevent a lurker or random joining to snatch up an item. And it will also prevent multi accounts...unless of course they spend the time to make the posts or whatever on all their accounts.
Also perhaps require everyone posting to 'reserve' and item had to of posted a give-away post as well, empowering the saying "You get out what you put in"

Perhaps a moderator to keep an eye on the section for...request posts. As everything was going perfectly and I fell in love with the section until someone had asked for several items instead of looking through the posts where people were already offering. Other than this I thought this section was doing very very well and had an amazing response from the community.

i dont know am i right, but..... i think most of theese ppls are greedy and are going to sell those items after they get them. and they are all here because they want something. i always check PC section and answer what i can and what i know. but most of them just come here and their first post is " hey, i d like a kuunavang or bone dragon or water djjin..." i only asked one bloody beetle juice and -50 cesta because i needed it. i dont wanna say more, 'cause some members will start flaming me etc. GL in keeping this section alive

It's indeed better if the giver would define his rules forehand to avoid arguements etc, keep it up ít's quite a handy thread

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I think an account should have at least 10 days or somthing unless there is a very good way to moniter ip's or somthing. Perhaps it could be left in the hands of the op if that is at all possible.

As for ideas, this is a bit mad right now, first thing needed is a sticky with clear cut rules like the other threads imo. And also if this section becomes large/succsessful enogh there could be a better way of monitering which is taken or not as iifa suggested, the first post for example must have had 15~ people loking for the juggernaut.

If the op's could be trusted mabay it could go the way of the guild recruiting area as in no replies this would end any flame wars / "i posted first" idea as if its via pm an op could more eaisly say who he/she gives the item to. Could be a bit extreme though and would require alot of op attention or somthing iifa suggested. I also think this place will need some strick moderation for its early days

But yea i hope this floats, its a great idea

i think it should be the OP's discretion to give to who he wants...no "request threads" as you stated already..and no alternate accounts, because being a former mod i know you *will* be found out, not worth the time or effort to do so.
as for people turning around and re-selling, its their own choice. people are giving things away, the player who receives the item can do with it what they want.

about the.... keeping new account out of the section.... is like a double edge sword...

because...usually.. and after all.....
the free stuffs that are being given away mostly are not the so-called perfect item.
thus.. usually when OP want to give it out.. they have a thought in-mind that.. they are helping the newer players...
and since they are new players.. they most likely wont have high post counts..


i know it's hard to keep out the greedy ppl..
but..... like alot of other places.... there's not a very good solution to solve the problem....
IP clone detection might work...... if the guy donno proxy.

another problem is ppl selling the freebie stuffs.....
i think it is wrong to sell items that other ppl give you in good well...
but.... imo... this is even harder then detecting the clone acc.
unless everyone keep an eye on this...... it is impossable to catch it..

Just a little easier side note, not sure if already mentioned; If posters, the people giving away items, once they have checked, updated, delivered and cleared their list to just do an end post yo signal an admin to lock the thread. This would just prevent alot of unessary spam for people trying to look at purely updated and active reuqests. I dont know just an idea if possible

I'm liking the idea of giving things out at random, as i had some 1 pm me 2day saying can i collect my item.

so i told him i already gave it out as i wanted to get rid there and then.

then he started complaining how he posted 1st >.<

its free for god sakes, u didnt pay for it fcoff

Looking at the Woespreader and Scareater thread, you see posts within a minute or two of someone posting. It makes you wonder if people really need them, or just want to add to their collection.

I check this area for certain items, but I cannot be on here 24/7 so it makes it harder for the less internet capable of actually getting items in Giveaways, because of the compulsive checkers or those who are actually abusing the new section and selling the items. It would be nice for people who have jobs or other obligations to get items too. Casual players should be the one to benefit from something like this too.

I disagree with what onerabbit said about giving away items. If you bothered to post free items, I feel like you should honor the requests from the posts and not give away the items randomly to someone else.

I've posted in a couple of threads requesting items and I do not know if I will get the item or not, but I would also like to know at some point if I just wasn't online at the right time or the item was given to someone else. Most items will be gone within 12 hours of the original post, at least for now... so perhaps the thread life should be 24 hours and the OP can perhaps list those who received the items.

I am not sure honestly if that would be too much effort for free items, but there should be some sort of regulation. People have work or school, and can only be on certain times of the day, and so there needs to be rule that gives those people a fair chance to claim their items.

Most aren't rules, but thoughts I think should be touched on.

I really like this section, but I'm not sure that it will ever work the way we all want it to. Certain people will always be greedy and try to grab as many free items as they possibly can. That's why this section can't work on a first-come-first serve basis- but there's really no other way of doing it besides randomly selecting someone. And that has it's problems, too- people start making alternate accounts to raise their chances of getting what they want... etc.

I liked the idea of allowing this section only for members of a certain length of time or number of posts... but that doesn't work all the time either. I've been a member for a few months now, and visit the site pretty frequently, but I still don't post very much.

As of now, there's really not much to do, except hope that this section doesn't turn into place for greedy players to grab free stuff only to sell later. We'll see.

Its good to have some rules set up, hopefully this section will keep being as friendly as it is.

Maybe this is an idea, people could only reply to a thread here once a week or so, to avoid people grabbing up all the items one by one, however this would also limit the topic starter.

Its just a subject of personal trust here i guess.

actually... i just had an idea....
addition to the enforcement of the clone detecting...
admin can add a limited number of post per person a day in the freebie section.
(starting thread wont get counted into this.. because they are the giver)

so.... this way.... each ppl wont get more then X number of item... because they are limited to only X number of reply post to the freebie section.
thus... let them really think about what they want....
also lower the forum's bw pressure.....
and gives those who don't have time a chance to get stuffs too.

theres a way mods can see if its an alternate account, and for the first few days/week it would be important to check a good amount of threads/posts

That's a really good idea iifa. By limiting the posts per person every day, people won't be able to hang around the section all day waiting to be the first one to grab new freebies.

Limiting posts is not a standard VBulletin function everyone. Now we are talking about a mod/hack for just 1 particular forum. And even then there's no way to limit the posts without limiting an OP themselves if they want to respond in their thread. It's just not feasible to implement something like this. Otherwise it would have all ready been done for our sell forums.

This forum would be alot better if the people who posted here would be more honest and would actually USE what was given to them instead of just going back to sell it. Many people will probably be in this forum, like other's have mentioned, to see what good stuff they can get for free, and most likely just sell it. Also if any item is just given at random, it will most likely be something they dont need and they will end up trashing it or selling it. Best thing we could do on this forum is get posters to choose an item that would be helpful to them. But that's kind of hard to do. Not many honest people here.

< You see this title its one above pre searing cadet, and i just got it today. As you can see i've been a member here for over a year now and am not much of a poster. I like reading the other posts on guru cause i like the setup the look and the active community it has. (and the auction system which is cool, but ive only used once). So far as to rules i'd like to apply to the giveaway section is the users account must be atleast 2 weeks old with atleast 1 post thats legit, (anything can backfire, some jerk could make 50 accounts today and keep using them for eternity). I suppose 1 extra mod couldnt hurt to look over the section, seeing as one thread earlier got out of control with no reason at the time of what was happening.

Soon enough im going to create a give away thread of my own with over 30 items gold and purple, but untill rules are set and i read the outcomes of other threads i'm going to wait. Cause personally im not sure if its gonna be a first come first serve situation, how im gonna even be able to deliver to all those people in a given time without them calling me slow and pm'ing me like crazy which sounds like whats happening. I guess you can add that as a rule to no pm'ing the giver unless stated other wise.

I agree that weeding out those only here to make a profit from the free items is a good idea and that doing so is problematic but giving out stuff to people who have made a certain number of posts won't work either. The greedy will just post more and so be eligable to ask for the items again. I am a regular on these forums and have been a member for over a year but have only posted 3 times. I know my join date is feb 2007, that is because i had a problem with membership and so reregistered.

I'm sure that anyone who regularly checks the pages to see what is being sold will spot the names of those posting items for sale that they were given and so will be able to bring this to the attention of the moderator, who can then deal with the greedy as they see fit.

Also the first come first served thing wont work long term, i for one don't sit here constantly refreshing the page to be first in line for new posts. I prefer the thrill of maybe getting something i need, rather like a raffle, because lets face it if you don't get something you need it will make you work twice as hard to get the cash to buy the item.

Inde, you might wanna sticky this.

I also concur that first come first serve sucks for those of us who can't be online all the time. Twice already I have been beaten out (by the same person, no less) for an item I could have used.

Although it's not really fair to tie the hands of the OP by making the giveaway items random or lottery, it should at least be strongly suggested so it's not just greedy trolls who lurk and constantly refresh to grab the best stuff being offered.

One other idea that would likely be way more work than anyone would want to put in is to keep a stickied list of posters/IGNs of people who have received free items and then limit it to one free item ever XX number of days. Such a list would require a mod/admin to maintain, however, as it couldn't be editable by just anyone (otherwise people could take themselves off the list).

Or it could be strongly suggested to only request one item every few days/1 week, and then go with the honor system (and perhaps issue warnings for those who blatantly or repeatedly break the rules)? I'd like to think that most people are generally nice/honest and would abide by that rule.

One method that might work:

1. OP posts giveaway list & server with GMT time.

2. Replies contain IGN & server with GMT time with no item request allowed.

3. OP puts IGNs on Friend list and sets meet to give poster choice of remaining items.

4. OP edits post to show remaining items.

This does away with the "posted first" problem and allows the OP some leeway. Basically, it's throwing your name in the hat and hoping that you will get something.

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For those concerned that people obtain free items so they can sell. It doesn't matter. I give items, collector drops, materials, weapons away to low level players all the time. I tell them to sell what ever they want, as gold for armor or materials can be as important as a rare gold weapon to a player at certain stages of the game.

The way i think I am going to handle this when I do my giveaway is to go with the first come first served basis... Although I will put in a note at the bottom of my post that if someone "edits" thier post they will no longer be eligible....I can see someone not recognizing a skin or whatever and post for sword A and then come back later and see that sword B was more rare or what have you then edit thier post to change it to sword B so they are the first poster....not really sure if this will work or not....maybe i should just go with merit as in who I think needs it the most....

I think this i a great addition to Guru,- already gave away a bunch of mods and more stuff will follow.

I already see people doing their own screening of "applicants", but some ready made standards might be useful, like:
First-Post-First-Serve
All can post. First to post for an item will get it. No edits or the post is void. X day window to pick up the item or you loose it.
Needy-People-Only
OP will be the sole judge of that. Anybody can post, but OP gets the final say as to who he chooses,- no complaints!
Lottery
Put in your number between x-xxx. OP picks a number randomly,- the first poster to hit it will get the item. Not edits or post is void. X day window to pick up the item or you loose it.
Random Selection
OP will start whispering people at a random chosen time,- the first poster for each item to answer the whisper will get it. No edits or post is void.

The important thing as far as i see it is that OP must specify which rules he abide by. I hope this will keep down disgruntled posters and help avoid people getting banned for flaming.

In a by-note i might add that my "first-post-first-serve" thread went quite well with some happy takers and a lot of smiles. (and this was cheap 500-2K stuff)

Cheers

I agree this is kind of an hard issue because though I hardly post i visit these forums daily.. And if you say like over a month old you have the players who just recently started the game. But there are also people with fow armors asking for items.. And they might have been a member for a long time. But i don't really think they need it..

Zeph

the order to which its given away is to the OPs discretion...so they should need to say :
1. First post first serve
2. OP gives it to who they want, not who posts first
3. anything else they wish to do (reasonable, of course)

Another problem Ive had this my first giveaway thread was with one person mostly. At first he requested an item, with no problem. So I chose him to receive up the item, first thing he says is "Is it req9 and gold?" so then I knew I had made a bad choice by choosing him...so indeed it was so I said yes. And then he asked about an item from my thread which had a skin which was a little uncommon...I told him that yes that item was also req 9 and gold. He then said that he made a mistake that he wanted the latter item. I told him to take the first item and be happy.
So a few hours pass...and I get a whisper from him, asking if he can trade in item #1 for item #2...that he needs item #2 bad. I ignore the whisper...about 4 hours later I get yet another PM asking if I have anything to give him before I do another thread...and that he 'preferred perfect sword or scythe mods'. I'll also let you know that this warrior showed up to pick up item #1 which in full black FoW...
At first I was excited about the section...being able to help others...but that event as well as a few other complaints I got within 24 hours is beyond sickening.
Although 90% of the people who received items from me were more than thankful...there are several who could ruin a thing like this for the community.

Perhaps we could instill 'universal' rules and "blacklist" certain people as long as proof is given...let a mod go over the 'case' and "ban" them from this section or simple have a blacklist in a rules post which would encourage posters to not give items to these 'blacklisted' posters.

One thing I am going to post on here for sure. This is not a discussion sub-forum. I have seen several posts which were just random comments on threads and have PM'd people. Please keep it to posts relating to the forum only.


Next is that it is up to the OP if they wish to give stuff to people or not. Honestly, if I post on here, and am trying to help out low lvl people and someone in FoW armor shows up, I would probably say "this is for someone that needs it" and give it to someone else. If people start getting greedy then use the ignore list. (even though mine is usually full from things like this as I have given stuff away randomly in game and had the same problems). Honestly even giving stuff to a lvl 8 with ascalon armor or such could be a fake as well, because I know of people that have done that kinda stuff before.

To be honest, I think it should be entirely upto the discretion of the OPs, who they give their gear to. Theres a few problems I can see occuring though, which will need rules and policing for ASAP. Things like 1 member looking here and posting in each and every give away thread, then proceeding to PM on forums or whisper the OP ingame for the items. Putting a few days ban on the IP of the user could help to deter mindless spammage, having a blacklist of IGNs for people whove whisper spammed. Then again, someone who's been sighted in multiple threads asking for different things, has more than likely just seen something "shiny" that could sell, or the *just have to have it, because its shiny* instead of actually needing it.

I like the idea of having a "Edited posts will be void" and a "You may only ask for 1 item, no "If I cant have that, then Id like this or that"".

It should also be the responsibility of the OP to give a deadline and contact times. I would also suggest not to put up rare items or gear that will sell fast for a profit - yes, it means it clogs our inventories a bit more, but also cuts down on those who would be jumping at getting a "free meal". But again, that would really be to the discretion of the OP.

On a seperate note, I think this forum is an awesome idea, if its controlled "environment", normally i reserve freebies for guildies and allies, but this gives me a chance to help out someone I don't know.

I am thinking of putting up a giveaway thread, and it is the very idea of giving something of value to a starter and instead find a L20 in full FOW that I am wrestling with.

Somthing I was considering was placing limits on certain items - ie this goes free to a L8-18 mesmer. If they don't front as the specified character then they miss out. Sure there will still be some sharks roaming the pool looking for a quick bite, but that is going to be par for the course. It will be a little frustrating though if they want to sit on mid level hoax characters in every class. If you can't beat em - make em earn it .

I'm a newbie to the game, only playing a week and having a lot fun. This thread seems great and I am thankful for any help I get. So far, I've had one Mini-Piggie, which is superb fun, and another kind person has saved an Axe Hilt and Grip for me, when I catch them online. All great.

If the idea is to help out newbies, then you've got to work out who needs the items and who doesn't. From what I've read in this forum, coming new to the game I'm effectively screwed financially, as I'll never be able to amass the kind of money the original players have due to changes in drop rates etc. I don't really have a problem with that - someone who has been playing for 2 years deserves more money than someone who has played it for say 6 months.

But if giving away items does help even things out, even just a little, I think it's a good idea.

I do think any item you get for free, you should be obliged to keep it for say a month or two. You'll always get people exploiting this kind of generosity, and players clammering for rare, expensive items only to immediately sell them on sucks.

Just my 2c.

i opened a giveaway thread for two reasons, one i wanted to offload an insane amount of mods, and two i thought there might be people out there that needed them. all in all i think it has been a success (see my thread for feedback) but i can see that people might try to abuse the system.

i don't like the idea of a blacklist, i think that will not really be in the spirit of the forum. i say, use your head as an OP. if someone is obviously in good order then don't give them something. the only reason i've gone in for a couple of things on this thread is that i have no money, despite being level 20 and having some nice items it seems no-one wants to buy anything so i am stuck with 52g!

people like Dralspire can easily spot those who are trying to dupe the OP, and they are the sort who are going to be giving away the really valuable items. That said, to those who have got mods from me, they have really appreciated it.

I wouldn't know FOW armour if it hit me in the face. I can only go on my gut feelnig, that is what the OPs should do. If they think someone is in it to abuse the system then reserve the right to back out of any deal. But lets not be all legalistic with the blacklist, that's not what the game is about.

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Thank you all so much for your feedback. I'm reading all your ideas and suggestions and in the next few days you'll see a more formal "rules" or "guidelines" sticky to help out both the charitable people who will start threads in this forum and the takers.

I have to mention one thing that won't be done is a blacklist. We don't allow one even for scammers. Dralspire can give firsthand knowledge on the amount of spam he has received because of requests in game so I'm going to be speaking with him and getting some ideas as well but I can't ban/blacklist/or even enforce something that happens in game.

I'll keep the thread open for any last minute suggestions. Thanks again.

I don't know if I like the idea of someone limiting it by level, as Davros suggested. I just started playing Prophecies a few months ago and went through every quest until Ascension. I was level 20 very soon after I hit Lion's Arch before I even went into the jungle because of this. So even though I was (and still am) very green, my "level" wasn't a good indication of my experience. Up until just recently I wasn't even using Runes on my armor, mainly because I didn't understand how they worked.

I also agree with Chainsaw. Most of the prices have dropped considerably, I have an inventory full of stuff that supposedly was going to sell for 1k at least and I couldn't sell it for 100g. Those who are late to the GW bandwagon don't have the luxury of selling stuff to make money, it seems. Unfortunately, there really is no good way of determining who is "needy" and who isn't. Would be kind of nice if we could determine account age in game for others. Having someone post their age in a screenshot would be one idea, but even that can be faked.

Personally, I really like the way that Dralspire did his giveaway - it's going to be a person picked at random, and it has allowed alot of people to get in on the lottery. To me, this seems the fairest way, rather than the person who can lurk on forums all day constantly refreshing so they can be first to claim something. I don't think randomness can never be truly random, as LifeInfusion suggests - at least random lottery. Maybe the "Random" definition Yang gave isn't truly random, but if I have a list of 6 people that asked for an item, I'll simply assign them a number and roll a dice to see who gets it. Nothing more random than that.

I think the OP definitely needs to put in a "cutoff" date for this method. Having times posted as to when they'll be online for the person to collect is good practice too. Of course they'll want to PM the person on the forums to inform them they've won.

Most of this seems like common sense, though. I think the tough issue is preventing abuse, and from the discussion it just doesn't seem to have a good solution, since we have no way of being able to tell who is new and who isn't. And what would be the cutoff anyway? Am i new once I've hit Ascension? Am I new still if I've finished the game? What if I never do either, but instead have been lurking around the beginning areas of the game for a year? Is it the amount of time playing? What if I started playing last year, but only play casually so don't have that much total time in? Or took a break and am coming back still "green"?

It's a problem anytime you give something away, in game or in real life. Once it's been given, you just don't know for certain what that item will be used for. I don't think there really is a good solution for it, unfortunately.

Hmmm, i wish I had some good ideas to prevent the greedy trolls from getting all the good stuff, but I don't. I'll be starting a thread soon with a few items. Nothing expensive. I have 14k in the bank currently so don't expect anything with a "WOW!" factor. Just a few necessities.

I do not have easy forum access when I'm in the game, so I'll post a thread with "do not reply here" instructions. Whisper me in game and first come first serve. I'd like some suggestions as to how I can get the stuff to the ones that need it most, but i guess nothing is foolproof. Just because a level 5 Elementalist comes to pick up my staff doesn't mean that their other character isn't a Level 20 Ranger in full FOW armor with 500 ectos in the bank.

I like the idea of blocking the forum to "pre-searing cadets" or just to accounts that were created less than a month ago, but since I'm using a whisper ingame method, I can't weed folks that way.

Why would you want to block the forum for "pre-searing cadets"? If the intent is to give it to new players who need the stuff, wouldn't they *be* the "pre-searing cadets" in the forums?? I don't get this logic.

One other thing I wanted to mention was something I just noticed with Dr. Matteo's giveaway and a few others. I (and likely other new players) haven't played long enough to recognize all the various item icons in the game. If you really *don't* want to give stuff to new players, this is a sure fire way to do it. For instance, I can tell Matteo has a sheild, a few inscriptions, and a staff head in his inventory. The rest just look like random wands and staffs and such, which I have no idea which is which.

To aid the new players, it would be useful (although I realize more time consuming for the OP) to list out the items, or at least state what profession they are for.

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