Agreed with the usage of ele mods against warriors.
Besides this, I think that sundering is viable on hammers, because most other mods which trigger on attacks are less effective due to the lowest attack speed.
For sword, if you have a Dragon Slash build and furious, sometimes you can have nice surprises, 10 adrenalines in 1 hit ^^
That said, all my 1337 weapons have 20/20 on them LOL!
20/20 suck? wat do u guys reckon as the best hilt
Abnaxus
fb2000
furious
vampiric
zealous (almost never used tho..)
vampiric
zealous (almost never used tho..)
Jetdoc
Vampiric, by far, with an Elemental switchoff.
Zealous is nice when you're running an IAS, but I normally don't find myself energy-hungry (mainly because I run adrenaline axe builds).
I just plain didn't find the benefit from Furious worth carrying the mod. And, as it has been said already in this thread, Sundering is inferior in almost every situation to Vampiric (and is generally preferred due either to laziness or the subconscious effect of very, very slow health degeneration).
-----
Regarding the old Fortitude versus Defense debate, I've chimed in on this many times. In short, Defense is better in damage situations and useless in armor-ignoring damage situations (e.g. degeneration, life stealing, etc.).
Fortitude is still pretty good in damage situations and is optimal for armor ignoring situations.
If you're good at switching weapons when faced with certain damage types, defense is the way to go. For general (lazy) use, however, you can't go wrong with Fortitude.
Personally, I try to bring Slaying mods when I know the enemy that I'm facing ahead of time.
Zealous is nice when you're running an IAS, but I normally don't find myself energy-hungry (mainly because I run adrenaline axe builds).
I just plain didn't find the benefit from Furious worth carrying the mod. And, as it has been said already in this thread, Sundering is inferior in almost every situation to Vampiric (and is generally preferred due either to laziness or the subconscious effect of very, very slow health degeneration).
-----
Regarding the old Fortitude versus Defense debate, I've chimed in on this many times. In short, Defense is better in damage situations and useless in armor-ignoring damage situations (e.g. degeneration, life stealing, etc.).
Fortitude is still pretty good in damage situations and is optimal for armor ignoring situations.
If you're good at switching weapons when faced with certain damage types, defense is the way to go. For general (lazy) use, however, you can't go wrong with Fortitude.
Personally, I try to bring Slaying mods when I know the enemy that I'm facing ahead of time.
Coloneh
@the people discussing armor penetration on an elemental mod: Im pretty sure he was getting at going around armor bonuses which is more penetration than sundering gives(this is bad against rangers though)
l Batman l
A lot more furious than I expected, I'm still not convinced with the results of using a furious mod.
jimmyboveto
Theres pros and cons to everything. If you want the highest dps, go with vampiric. However, sundering has the ability to do the most damage in one strike, and can therefore be very useful because it stresses the monk more.
ShadowsRequiem
meh I just really hate sundering, cept for modding weapons to sell lol...
Elemental for fighting warriors by passing 20 def because your dmg isnt physical is much more of a great choice.
Vamp
Zealous
Furious
I dont understand how people say vamp is bad cause of the 1 degen..... some people are to damn stupid to switch weapons....Lots of degen? switch weapons.
Elemental for fighting warriors by passing 20 def because your dmg isnt physical is much more of a great choice.
Vamp
Zealous
Furious
I dont understand how people say vamp is bad cause of the 1 degen..... some people are to damn stupid to switch weapons....Lots of degen? switch weapons.
blue.rellik
Quote:
Originally Posted by l Batman l
A lot more furious than I expected, I'm still not convinced with the results of using a furious mod.
I use Furious with my hammer build but that's just because I love Backbreaker so much
farmpig
i am currently enjoying the benefit of a furious mod given to me by a friend
not a lot of difference bt good cos i am adrel based
not a lot of difference bt good cos i am adrel based
Polynikes of Sparta
Furious with a Dragon Slash build is insanely fun. 
30hp imo, beats +5 armor. ESPECIALLY on a warrior. you already have 116 armor vs physical and ~96 armor vs ele... +30hp ftw!
Zealous - ONLY, and i stress ONLY when i use cyclone/triple axe.
Vampiric - I know it's the best damage-wise, except it makes me so uncomfortable to see that damn arrow pointing left on my hp bar. personal preference i guess.
Elemental - Always carry with you. Always.
Sundering - no. just no. buff it to penetration+25% chance 25%, then maybe.
condition lengthening - just no.
My standards are:
Furious Sword of Fortitude with a D Slash build
Zealous Axe of Fortitude with a Cyclone/Triple build
Vampiric Sword/Axe of Fortitude for general pve/pvp
Elemental vs Warriors
~Polynikes
30hp imo, beats +5 armor. ESPECIALLY on a warrior. you already have 116 armor vs physical and ~96 armor vs ele... +30hp ftw!
Zealous - ONLY, and i stress ONLY when i use cyclone/triple axe.
Vampiric - I know it's the best damage-wise, except it makes me so uncomfortable to see that damn arrow pointing left on my hp bar. personal preference i guess.
Elemental - Always carry with you. Always.
Sundering - no. just no. buff it to penetration+25% chance 25%, then maybe.
condition lengthening - just no.
My standards are:
Furious Sword of Fortitude with a D Slash build
Zealous Axe of Fortitude with a Cyclone/Triple build
Vampiric Sword/Axe of Fortitude for general pve/pvp
Elemental vs Warriors
~Polynikes
Lurid
On my melee characters I generally run:
Furious - Warrior builds that utilize high adrenaline.
Sundering - On occasion, mostly on heroes.
Condition Lengthening - Mostly on heroes and crippling for my Monk (aids in kiting)
Zealous - Never, sans a Dervish / Sin.
Vampiric - Constantly...switching when not in battle.
Elemental - Usually keep one per weapon set, very useful in PvP or known areas of PvE.
I like Enchanting (On Casters), +HP, and +Defense. Don't really have an "end-all-be-all" choice amongst the three (atleast for casters) as I generally carry several items on me at any given time.
Furious - Warrior builds that utilize high adrenaline.
Sundering - On occasion, mostly on heroes.
Condition Lengthening - Mostly on heroes and crippling for my Monk (aids in kiting)
Zealous - Never, sans a Dervish / Sin.
Vampiric - Constantly...switching when not in battle.
Elemental - Usually keep one per weapon set, very useful in PvP or known areas of PvE.
I like Enchanting (On Casters), +HP, and +Defense. Don't really have an "end-all-be-all" choice amongst the three (atleast for casters) as I generally carry several items on me at any given time.
Oso Minar
I enjoy Furious on a Dragon Slash build.
qvtkc
I generally choose mods fitting the build I want to play atm. For swords, furious is my favorite if I use a Dragon Slash build, otherwise meh anything, vamp is ok. For axe, sundering, because when it triggers together with a critical the numbers get so funny.
Oh and fiery for when I play PvE with my elementalist friend. She loves spamming Mark of Rodgort on anything that moves.
Oh and fiery for when I play PvE with my elementalist friend. She loves spamming Mark of Rodgort on anything that moves.
taichou
Zealous
Vampiric
Icy/Shocking
Furious
Sundering
Vampiric
Icy/Shocking
Furious
Sundering
kobey
I use sundering on weapons for collection/display 
But other than that....
Vamp ftw
But other than that....
Vamp ftw
Polynikes of Sparta
Sundering vs. Vampiric: The Sword Hilt Battle of the 21st Century!
It all comes down to one simple formula...
Sundering gives you 20% armor penetration every 5 hits, averaging out to be 4% armor penetration per hit. This is, of course, a probable guess.
Vampiric adds 3 damage to all your hits. This IS NOT a probable guess.
So, what would you rather have? 4% armor penetration or +3 dmg to all hits? Let's see:
vs 60: Sundering will make it about 58 armor. -2 armor vs +3 dmg is a no-brainer. Vampiric wins.
vs 70: Sundering will make it about 67 armor. -3 armor vs +3 dmg is also a no-brainer.
vs 80: Sundering will make it about 77 armor. -3 armor vs +3 dmg is another no-brainer.
Can we see a trend here?
~Polynikes
It all comes down to one simple formula...
Sundering gives you 20% armor penetration every 5 hits, averaging out to be 4% armor penetration per hit. This is, of course, a probable guess.
Vampiric adds 3 damage to all your hits. This IS NOT a probable guess.
So, what would you rather have? 4% armor penetration or +3 dmg to all hits? Let's see:
vs 60: Sundering will make it about 58 armor. -2 armor vs +3 dmg is a no-brainer. Vampiric wins.
vs 70: Sundering will make it about 67 armor. -3 armor vs +3 dmg is also a no-brainer.
vs 80: Sundering will make it about 77 armor. -3 armor vs +3 dmg is another no-brainer.
Can we see a trend here?
~Polynikes
blue.rellik
And Vampiric is consistent as it ignores pretty much anything
Isil`Zha
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polynikes of Sparta
Sundering vs. Vampiric: The Sword Hilt Battle of the 21st Century!
It all comes down to one simple formula...
Sundering gives you 20% armor penetration every 5 hits, averaging out to be 4% armor penetration per hit. This is, of course, a probable guess.
Vampiric adds 3 damage to all your hits. This IS NOT a probable guess.
So, what would you rather have? 4% armor penetration or +3 dmg to all hits? Let's see:
vs 60: Sundering will make it about 58 armor. -2 armor vs +3 dmg is a no-brainer. Vampiric wins.
vs 70: Sundering will make it about 67 armor. -3 armor vs +3 dmg is also a no-brainer.
vs 80: Sundering will make it about 77 armor. -3 armor vs +3 dmg is another no-brainer.
Can we see a trend here?
~Polynikes eh, it's oversimplified:
Based on a 1000 second time for attacking, with 12 Sword Mastery, +35% damage (customization and another from +15^50), with 20/20 Sundering - using the average damage for all the regular hits, and figuring in all the criticals, the DPS comes out to 22.41.
With Vampiric instead, adding on the +3 to every attack yields 22.84.
Since GW drops the decimal instead of rounding, it comes out exactly the same.
With all the same stats, but against a 116 AL target instead of 60, the 20/20 Sundering is 8.43 DPS, and the Vampiric is 9.81 - just 1 more DPS.
See what happens when you oversimplify stuff, you end up completely wrong. Instead of the gap getting closer as the armor went higher, the gap got wider - still not as much as you made it out to be though.
I used the formulas on GWguru for damage calculations, and just figured average DPS from there - and average DPS is the best you can do when it comes to random numbers for the "best" DPS number. You can easily do multiple tests and come quite a bit higher or lower depending how you hit. I just used the damage calculations, then figured the average damage a sword would hit for, and used that as the standard attack. I can give you all the formulas for calculating the DPS for 20/20 sundering and vampiric if you like - but I didn't figure these by hand, I made a damage calculator to make this stuff easier. So if you can read vb code that'll work. It's a WIP and I tried posting it in the community tools forum so I can get feedback on what I should add, problems with it, ect, but it still hasn't been put up there by the mods yet...
It all comes down to one simple formula...
Sundering gives you 20% armor penetration every 5 hits, averaging out to be 4% armor penetration per hit. This is, of course, a probable guess.
Vampiric adds 3 damage to all your hits. This IS NOT a probable guess.
So, what would you rather have? 4% armor penetration or +3 dmg to all hits? Let's see:
vs 60: Sundering will make it about 58 armor. -2 armor vs +3 dmg is a no-brainer. Vampiric wins.
vs 70: Sundering will make it about 67 armor. -3 armor vs +3 dmg is also a no-brainer.
vs 80: Sundering will make it about 77 armor. -3 armor vs +3 dmg is another no-brainer.
Can we see a trend here?
~Polynikes eh, it's oversimplified:
Based on a 1000 second time for attacking, with 12 Sword Mastery, +35% damage (customization and another from +15^50), with 20/20 Sundering - using the average damage for all the regular hits, and figuring in all the criticals, the DPS comes out to 22.41.
With Vampiric instead, adding on the +3 to every attack yields 22.84.
Since GW drops the decimal instead of rounding, it comes out exactly the same.
With all the same stats, but against a 116 AL target instead of 60, the 20/20 Sundering is 8.43 DPS, and the Vampiric is 9.81 - just 1 more DPS.
See what happens when you oversimplify stuff, you end up completely wrong.
Instead of the gap getting closer as the armor went higher, the gap got wider - still not as much as you made it out to be though.I used the formulas on GWguru for damage calculations, and just figured average DPS from there - and average DPS is the best you can do when it comes to random numbers for the "best" DPS number. You can easily do multiple tests and come quite a bit higher or lower depending how you hit. I just used the damage calculations, then figured the average damage a sword would hit for, and used that as the standard attack. I can give you all the formulas for calculating the DPS for 20/20 sundering and vampiric if you like - but I didn't figure these by hand, I made a damage calculator to make this stuff easier. So if you can read vb code that'll work.
It's a WIP and I tried posting it in the community tools forum so I can get feedback on what I should add, problems with it, ect, but it still hasn't been put up there by the mods yet...
elevenfifty5
My warrior will have back problems some day.
I always carry around
Sword:
Shocking
Vampiric
Zealous
Furious +5 energy mod
Sundering
Axe:
Icy (Spinal Shivers =)
Furious
Vampiric
Zealous +5 energy mod
Sundering
Hammer:
Ebon
Furious
Sunderig
Zealuos +5 energy mod
Vampiric
As welll a +5 energy 20% enchant Sword. Just in case.
All in all I use the Elemental more often than the sundering. And the furious more than the zealous. I usualy crack out the Vamp only when trying toget that little extra bang for my buck, but seldom at that.
I always carry around
Sword:
Shocking
Vampiric
Zealous
Furious +5 energy mod
Sundering
Axe:
Icy (Spinal Shivers =)
Furious
Vampiric
Zealous +5 energy mod
Sundering
Hammer:
Ebon
Furious
Sunderig
Zealuos +5 energy mod
Vampiric
As welll a +5 energy 20% enchant Sword. Just in case.
All in all I use the Elemental more often than the sundering. And the furious more than the zealous. I usualy crack out the Vamp only when trying toget that little extra bang for my buck, but seldom at that.