No Montly Fee ::: Maybe Not So Great

A lot of people play Guild Wars for the lack of a monthly fee. It's nice, I will definitely admit. But I find that in Guild Wars we have a series of problems that are constant. Things the community asks for or complains about go unheeded, and I would say (only considering the players I know personally) customer satisfaction is fairly low, especially (almost only) after the release of Factions.
I'm not trying to be the "Screw Anet *$)!%&#@()*!" guy, but I see and feel this in my Guild Wars experience:

1) Old issues go mostly unresolved for long periods of time, or permanently.
~ Took 2 years to increase storage space, and a few months to revert HA to 8vs8.
2) Things we didn't want/need are added frequently instead of fixes or additions we request personally.
~Soul Reaping "fix". (And with continuity to my first statement, it's seemingly gone unresolved about a month now.)

I think that this is a direct affect of the lack of subscription fee. Once they have our money, we are account holders and offer little in the way of money for them after that until the next game is released. But the more things they add, the bigger the game seems and the more random stuff that is included, the more people can read about when thinking of purchasing the game.

I don't think this kind of "abuse" would happen in a game with a subscription fee. If, let's say, Guild Wars had a fee from the beginning; If the game developers nerfed Soul Reaping and the same response from the players came about that did with the actual GW, I don't think there would have been a moments' haste in meeting the demands of the paying customers, and either reverting it, or just doing what over 75% of each individual community asked and "make SR cancel out spirit gain". But no, Anet knows better than us don't they. They know better what we actually want.

When I started playing this game, I didn't give a crap about the developers. I made a purchase on a great game, and LOVED the hell out of it for a long time. But I've found the development team ominously and cruelly destroying what I loved about the game slowly over the course of the last year or so.

I've been looking desperately for an alternate game to play, but WoW is garbage, Everq is just... no... and the assortment of other MMos that were the reason I enjoyed and relished in GW in the first place are all useless to me. So I just haven't been playing MMos at all, which is sad because I enjoy(ed) them.

I suppose I'm not the only person that feels "tossed about" by Anet, like we have no control over what we want, am I?

Less whine please. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to play. Don't like it anymore? Fine, don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

Before whining about why SR was changed, there's already a huge crybaby thread for that, attempt to nderstand why the change was made.

If HA was reverted after a couple weeks, the crying would have been just as loud from those that preferred it. And you have no clue if there were other things preventing a reversion.

Your post is typical of the petulant brats that complain merely for the sake of complaining. It's nothing but a whine without any sort of suggestion.

Guru forums are meant as a forms of entertainment when dealing with things like pvp and game balance. Real content is generally found elsewhere.

Your whining about me whining is less pointed than me whining.

This thread isn't about SR. Can not you read?

PROTIP: Not everyone agrees that the reasons behind doing it were right.
"attempting to understand" it is more than simple. Just because you're a tool who just lets things be as they be doesn't mean the rest of us have to, or will.

So the opinions of the established players who were complaining don't matter in comparison to the players who like the newer things, and them leaving the game was worth trying something new to bring more people in?

You just proved my thread.

If they cared enough, they'd explain it. They seem to do so on other issues.

Your post is typical of the obnoxious mindless forum-runner who cares to put thought into what they post about as much as they care about other peoples' opinions. I'm not asking you to care about my opinion, but there are rules and guidelines to follow on these forums if you want to continue posting here.
I would suggest being constructive merely so that you can post words, but I'd hate to have someone as "slow" as yourself contaminate more of my threads, so I do hope you continue the way you're going.

Anet has created a great game and claiming that they are screwing you is pathetic.
Anet already gave you storage space, and they did not take any back. Anything else they gave you is a bonus, so just be grateful that they gave you extra space instead of complaining about it.
Changing HA from 6v6 to 8v8 is all a matter of changing a single value in their servers. The change to 6v6 was an attempt to make the game better, which after some time, Anet reached the conclusion that it did not work. In another attempt to make the game better, they reverted back to 8v8.
As for Soul Reaping, who says we didn't want that change? Necros had way too much energy. This is overall a balance in the game. Anet is trying to make the game better. This has nothing to do with the fact that you don't pay a monthly fee.

Get over yourself.
And if you still want to pay a monthly fee, I'll give you my bank details.

I'm not trying to "imply" anything, but how recently did you start playing the game?

Make it better for people just joining the game, not for established players who were already loving 8vs8.

Yeah, they realized they failed. Not exactly relevant, but it means more to my opinion that they add unneeded things frequently, and without demand.

Balance is one thing, but like I said, it's a matter of how long it has been, and how much other stuff has happened since then. They've already surrendered to the fact that the SR nerf was a "mistake" at best.


You have to be pretty conceited to assume and bash others for being conceited.

Send them to my IM box plz.

you had me smiling at that part... not that i agree, but just another well thought of rant against arenanet. good luck, won't do nothing because rants are generally ignored. and i'm happy for that.

you have no grasp at what arenanet thinks.
arenanet does not claim to know better what 'we' want, arenanet knows better what is best for this game. Maybe your ideas about spirits went trough their mind, went trough in tests, but came out wrong too...
nobody can say that because you dont work at arenanet and thus dont have the power to have tested anything about that.

make suggestions, and if arenanet chooses not to continue with that line of thought that is because they dont find it needed, or its not good enough, or it makes something else totally out of ballance, or anything else.
but dont make this into "arenanet is ignoring us, and it is thinking they know better what we want"!


yes i agree pay to play has its positive sides, but i do not think your arguments are correct. i dont think arenanet would listen better than they do now just because you pay them every month.
certain other arguments can be brought in yes, if it were pay to play, the community's average age would go up with 5-10 years. and half of those people whining and ranting on these boards would finaly stop playing GW like they keep claiming to be doing after every update that hits their class.
oh for that reason alone i'd pay 15 euros a week. :P
but arenanet listening better than they do now? thats impossible (figuratively speaking, i hope you get the point, no need to show me where exactly they still could listen better, just working towards a point which you should have understood by now)

He isn't whining, he just wants to get rid of whiners like you, and just expresses WHY this doesn't need another thread.

... though his last sentence was a bit too much.


I no do you saying what understand...



PROTIP: Not everyone agrees that the reasons behind doing it were right.
"attempting to understand" it is more than simple. Just because you're a tool who just lets things be as they be doesn't mean the rest of us have to, or will.



'Established players'... Not everyone reads forums, and the people on the forums definitely aren't alot smarter than those who don't. Some people just stay away from forums to avoid retarded discussions or rants like yours.


If they feel the need to explain it, they do. Care doesn't have to do anything with it.



Whoa, getting quite warm there.

OMG IT BURNS.

To actually contribute.

No Monthly Fee is supposed to be relevant to game support? Hahahahahaha.

Storage was just an extra, don't complain about actually GETTING IT. I wouldn't mind Anet taking away your personal extra storage just to show you a lesson about thankfulness.
Soul Reaping was abused, and it got 'fixed', albeit a bit wrongly. But they're working on a solution, and give them time to work on it, and test it. If we'd let people on the forums fix it, it'll turn out for the worst.

And for the finishing touch:
You're not a dev, period. Make your own game if you want to make the rules.

They'd have to read it to realize it's a rant.

It's not like they're being very helpful with that. They leave me (and many others) no choice but to go on assumption alone. They have a news article that basically just says "lalallalalal new event weekend!" once a week. (see: Scribe)

Their choices when considering suggestions would be more "influenced" were it to mean an immediate loss of revenue.

"you have no grasp at what arenanet thinks."

European!!!

You're point isn't taken at all. I hardly see it as more than dismissal. If their income was more fluid, more care would be taken more often about more issues to ensure the fluidity of their income. Can you seriously not see that this is how Guild Wars was built? It's no revelation, but their business model does very little for anyone who hasn't already been a customer.

You could always just... quit.

I agree with that. It would be nice if ANet would give us a proper newsletter to give us an idea of the new game features they were planning to add, as well as a heads-up on any buffs/nerfs they were planning on throwing at us so we could start re-adapting our builds early. That might reduce the amount of whining that people do. A little more communication could go a very long way.

yes but you missed the care they put in guildwars.
no game has such a support and pr behind as guildwars has.
i mean compared with the prices.

what you are stating is if half teh community says 'remove A' and they all payed to play guildwars, arenanet should just obey like a slave?
no, let them run the tests, let them figure out if its a good suggestion (because from your point the community rather states Demands than suggestions which is something i dont like) and if its not a good suggestion let them choose not to implement.
its still their game, they decide, no idea why they SHOULD do it because everyone is asking them to.
if this game was pay to play, and arenanet gave as mutch care to this game as they do now (without pay to play) i would be in my believe that nothing would change. because they already give good support, and add a great amount of suggested things ( too bad for you your suggestion wasnt taken in)


PS: this was my last reply to this thread though.
i just can't stand it. you dont take any suggestion or reply in this thread serious, and seem to be certain of the amount of truth in your own statement. if you are so certain you were right, dont post it here, enjoy statement by yourself. no need to annoy others with it if your only goal is to laugh em in the face with replying jokes and offensive counters to every line they type.

No, he's whining.

Who's talking about intelligence?

Yeah, like you!- wait...

It was condescending. I said it in a way which was meant to demean their motives and how they operate. I thought it would be obvious that I meant when it was needed.

Nah, just trying to help a brother out.

hahahahaahahahaha!!!
...
Wait, what was funny?

Storage was a problem since the original game that was demanded by the players for the last two years. It's like getting a birthday present late; Sure it's nice and all, but it would have meant something if it had been there when it was needed.

I need something more than that. A month is long enough, and I've quit playing because of that, and a few other things. If there were a monthly fee, my quitting playing for a while (and others doing the same) may have meant something to Anet.

Here, let me fix this:

While a lot of the demands of the community do indeed go unheeded, ANet has a far, far better track record of listening to the community than most subscription MMORPGs I am familiar with (Refer to MMORPG.com forums for SWG, Everquest and its sequel, V:SoH). Therefore I have to assume you pulled your opening paragraph out of your ass. There will always be dissent and dissatisfaction. I am probably one of the least satisfied customers of NC+ANet and even I am hesitant of saying that customer satisfaction is low.

I really, really can't see how you can correlate a lack of a monthly fee with these two particular issues. I could understand if you brought up issues like delayed balance, rampant bugs or delayed bug fixes. Heroes Ascent was a not a simple matter for ANet, poor decision or not they did have a sizable community that wanted to keep 6v6. The fact that they actually kept working on the issue rather than let HA wallow in itself should be a point against you.

It was made very clear that Soul Reaping was deliberately weakened in PvE as well as PvP. The original suggestion for a change of 0 energy gain from spirits was put forward so that there would be minimal impact to PvE, this was ultimately not the intention of ArenaNet. I hope that answers why this change was not implemented.

Yeah, what is this? If you don't like it, to bad, get over it or just stop playing. If you don't like changes in an online games, then just get an offline single player games. This way it will be the same everytime you play. Shame on you, Alan!

If you think that monthly fee will make developers listen to you, you are wrong.

PS Go and try to multiquote my post !

You quit playing. Why are you still whining? They're working on things, give them time, ANet can't make everyone happy, it isn't a perfect world we're living in. SR was overpowered, everybody knew that.

I don't give up as easily as the casual gamer. I'm not afraid to "try" and change things to better myself.

Everquest doesn't count. They've had way too many problems to be considered anything other than "trash-mmo". I've played games like Anarchy Online, Knights Online [Pre-Free], and a few others and I found the development team to be very responsive because they "needed" the money to stay afloat. Everquest sold because it was a damn good game right out the door, and degraded into crap later on. Therefore no "ass-pulling" was needed to make my opinion.

They didn't "keep working" on the issue... they gave up when they realized they goofed. They tried to repair it to what it was, which will now never happen.

How many times does it need to be said that understanding their reasoning is different than agreeing with it?

Stop twisting my words, Imo he isn't whining. And even so, you started the entire whining thing in the first place, no?



You are.


I enjoy laughing with people. You should join in on the gwguru irc channel!
A few outtakes:
[10:50] <ZenRgy-BibleOnDvd> Yeah ban Mesmerman too.
[10:50] <ZenRgy-BibleOnDvd> I hate that guy.

[10:51] <fallot> "Guild: [Penis]"
[10:51] <fallot> hey he's funny
[10:51] <fallot> look, he's a funny man
[10:51] <ZenRgy-BibleOnDvd> GIVE HIM A STICKER

[10:56] <[Law]Fenix> Mesmerman is SO DUMB

[10:58] <fallot> "I don't think this kind of "abuse" would happen in a game with a subscription fee."
[10:58] * fallot touches Mesmerman
[10:58] <Khelevaster> that's where he goes off track

[11:03] <ZenRgy-BibleOnDvd> I'd troll his fadce off but I just got unbanned.
[11:03] <ZenRgy-BibleOnDvd> <_<
[11:04] <Khelevaster> um dont say stupid crap?
[11:04] <Khelevaster> OMG HAI ITS TEH INTARWEB MUST BE RETARDED IN RETURN

And much more.


Needed? In your opinion, of course. Keep in mind there's over 3 million other players. Go work for Anet if you want to change what is 'needed'.
And to go back to your first ideas: Storage wasn't needed, yet it was given. Soul Reaping had to be changed, the only people who didn't agree on that were PvE'ers, and they're working on a fix for that right now, period.



*gives you a sticker*
Your comparison is utter bullshit and fails at even showing a relation as how the lack of a fee affects the actual game.



NERF BIRTHDAYS. Be glad you got it, period. For all we know, we wouldn't have it right now, and nobody would be whining, people would just tell you to buy another character slot. Anet actually loses money because of the storage expansion.
'Needed'? There we go again... I had plenty of storage space, and I actually have stuff like Naga Fangs, 4 Tapestry Shreds, all the seasonal items etc. nicely on my pvp-focussed chars, who function as mules (such as my Dervish and Assassin).



Please, no 'if, then' statements. The game is at it is, people like it like that and don't feel the need to complain. Anet wouldn't care about 1 person continuously whining about the game not being perfect. Because guess what, no game is perfect. Make your own if you want everything to be your way, wink wink.



As I said, stop twisting my words. If you can't handle the things they are, then just quit and stop bothering to change it.
I DO have an opinion, and I'm glad with the game as it is. I paid for the games (3 CE's so far, likely a GW:EN CE if there's one coming), and almost 3.4k hours of play, for only 180 euro's.



As a side note, you remind me of my teacher of International Law. Everybody laughs at him because he makes such radical statements, and the worst part about that is, in our exams, if we critique something, it must be similar to his opinion, or he'll let you fail, which is basically the only reason people haven't directly confronted him yet. You should try not to make an arse out of yourself through radical statements, you're not in any position to make Anet or me 'fail a test' or make us do something.

If you want something done... well, I suppose I've told you plenty of times what you could do.

Well duh we have no control over what we want. Anet can do pretty much what it damn pleases.

But...

They do give us what we want. We asked and received hard mode, we ask for skill changes, we receive them, we ask for better tourney and ladder changes, we receive it. Just because they can't work at insane speeds that might suit you, they are still working hard. If they give you an update you don't like, then dont play that aspect of it.

Stop making the flame threads...this is just getting annoying, all you ever do mesmerman is complain, complain, complain. It seems, once again, your on your own on this 1.

The fact that GW can survive without giving a monthly subscription fee, makes the game all the more better. The fact that they can and mostly give us what we want, no matter the time span, makes this game so desirable. Makers of other MMO's would kill to have the respect that players have for Anet.

This already shows that a monthly fee is no guarantee for a good game. I think the path followed is different then WoW's or others, but essentially it will do the same. They generate income and use it for maintenance development. How income is generated is less important to my opinion. Now I somewhat share a bit your thoughts on the different decisions that have been made. They took some time, and the the final approach was not always well though off, better solutions were available for a number of problems. But that's it, and they have to deal with that.

In general I think what determines the succes of a game or any project is that it needs motivation. A well motivated team that takes decisions that make the game well functioning will have a high motivation, and will be able to make it last longer. That doesnt always mean the customer is right, like we can't give all students an A+ because they like good grades. But a good playerbase can appreciate not so nice but essential nerfs too if well executed, and argumented.

So, you already stop playing, right? But you still want to change the game to suit you, right? Why?.....Maybe you want to come back to GW again? You did try out some other games but didn't like any of them. C'mon, don't be like this, no need to go all gungho and bashing other people.

You've never really played a subscription-based MMO, have you? In general, they have worse quality control of updates than guildwars.

A little recap of some of my experiences with pay-to-play MMO services, based on the problems you think guild wars has due to being free to play:
1. old issues go unresolved... not only do balance and in-game bugs and missing features go unresolved, but so do major technical problems that keep you from playing at all.
2. Things we don't want are added instead of what we ask for... Yep, lots of that too. Like when EQ2 decided it would be fun to put huge re-entry timers on all of the zones worth entering... yep that was sure fun!

Every game will add some things you don't want and not add things you do want. That's just the way it is, the old saying you can't please everybody. Theres some people out there with an opinion completely opposite of yours, and their opinion is no less valid - perhaps more-so if they know to realize the world does not revolve around them.

as for the problems you list about gw specifically:
1. soul reaping. yes, it was a crappy change. yes, I was/am pissed about it. not because my necro was nerfed, but because they decided to screw up pve in favor of pvp. this point i will give you, whether its for same reason or not, though they are looking into a different solution for the next balance update.
2. HA 6v6 or 8v8. Okay, you might consider 6v6 HA a huge travesty, a horrible mistake, a slap in the face, etc... But others might feel the same way about 8v8 HA. Its not exactly easy to get a capable, full 8man group together in off-peak hours for HA or anything else for that matter. And the fresh look instead of the same prevalent builds can be refreshing. Why should anet listen to you instead of the other side? Because you bitch louder? please.
3. Storage. Yeah, would have been nice to have extra storage early on, but the game was completely playable without it. And some people are quite fond of storage emptying sales . You say it would have been nice to have it when it was needed.... You mean its not needed now? funny, I thought we had a lot more items to store now than we did 2 years ago... 2 new campaigns worth of stuff plus a bunch of holiday stuff... I'd say when they implemented it was when it was needed most.

As I said, you're not going to agree with every choice a development team makes, whether you are paying a monthly fee or not. However, one more good thing about a lack of fee is that if you do decide you have had enough, you've played for 2 years for just the cost of the game. And then if they implement something you like down the road, you can start playing again without any costs. Just like any single-player game, except with tons more free content.

Will charging a monthly fee improve the game? Possible, but not likely.
Will charging a monthly fee alienate a lot of players? Definitely.

<edit: technical problem>

Thing is to remove kill count takes little to no effort. It is simply a roll back. Little to no effort and the only thing lost is an ego from an Anet employee who suggested it would work. Most companies aren't biased.

I have been with Prophecies about 5 months after its release, and the change to HA was an attempt to make it better. I am not "implying" anything but I think that you that you consider yourself an elitist, who is better and more experienced than most other players, and that Anet needs to mend the game into a shape which is suitable only for yourself without regards to those who are newer, or those who do not grind the game.
The example of you considering me new, and the fact to you claim that the change in HA was for newer players just proves my point.

Some additional unneeded changes also include:
- refund points
- the ability to change proffesions without going to the profession changer
- buffs to many skills, especially eles which were underpowered and useless once.
My point, Anet always make changes to make the game better. Most changes work for the better, some don't.


They only admitted that it was a bit too much. But it is still better than it was before. Even still, they intend (or claim) to change it some more.


You make no sence at all

again, some people like kill count. if a few people start a protest saying anet should remove some other victory condition and do more killcount, does that mean they should?

The fact that Guild Wars has no monthly fee is the greatest thing to semi-casual players or just those who want to ake a break now and then. I've had several breaks from GW every time it starts to feel like too much of a grind and usually return with renewed interest with a new update or such.

I predict I'll be playing very actively come GW:EN, and I can just do this with no monthly fees.

Wow, so many tools here.

Don't you ppl have questions? Don't any of you want answers to stuff?

Im not so happy (or angry) with gw right now, the reason I still play if cuase of my friends. And yes, its my descision. I am also wating on gwen.
But there is ton of stuff in this game that is just sitting there with noone ever using it. This does raise questions no?

People whine cuz people care, and you tools would do better to remember it, and stop bashing those who care. THEY make the game better on the long run.

better for them, sure. but worse for people with differing views.

Didn't I already establish that?

If you're referring to me speaking about a "lack of intelligence", then you're still wrong.

kekekekkekekeke That's the best you can do? Hit me with a chatlog from a bunch of kids giggling because an actual thought never crosses their mind?
I enjoy laughing as much as you do, except AT you, for using social reinforcement to try and argue me.

P.S.: I'll be on there shortly.

I don't need to work for Anet, if Anet were to work for me. Consumerism is based on my interests and therefore my interests become the paycheck of those I buy from.

3million ACCOUNTs. gg.

**Takes sticker and puts it on chalkboard of stickers**
I thought I'd made it fairly clear, but here, I'll help you:
No.

People like you make their late investments worthwhile. They give you something worthless, you lap it up like dog-water. And that's why they'll continue to own you and your IRC buddies.

Screenshots please.

I feel the same way about the government!

"if you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything."

I'm really getting ashamed of yourself for you. Accept things as they are or quit?

Hehehe... I came to teach you. And believe me, there's no test. I'd have known the outcome from the beginning.

You responded to my thread.

When the overwhelming majority is completely opposed to it then yes. Post when you have some insight as to the situation.

So the rest of the ones I listed do ? So the people who have said that they think you've never played a subscription game in your life may have some valid concerns ? Address them please.

There were HA polls on the two major English Guild Wars forums. There have been a number of HA weekends with changes to maps and mechanics, not minor overhauls either. There have been numerous HA specific skill balance changes. Even the original change to 6v6 was an attempt made in good faith to improve the condition of HA. So what if it went badly ? They certainly did not give up. The reversion to 8v8 was under (informed) community pressure, a point against your OP, which claims that ANet frequently is dismissive of community opinions.

Disagree with their reasoning as much as you will. It is meaningless. Simple maths can tell you that Soul Reaping energy returns are overpowered in pretty much any environment. The long term health of the game is far more important than the anger and dissatisfaction of some players, if the reasoning is not acceptable and the impact on gameplay is too much for you to stomach then I'd have to advise a different game.

Some people can't see the bigger picture...

I never had anything to complain about bugs or unfixed issues. And how was storage an "issue"??? If you can't find space for your eleven sets you never use on your mesmer, well, that's pretty much only your problem and not an issue with the game. Sheesh. I could go all day collecting white items and complaining about not being able to store them all. There's no difference.

Anet didn't create this game on our terms. THEY MAKE THE RULES AND WE ADAPT. If there's an imbalance in the game, abuse the hell out of it while you still can and quit posting on forums how it should be fixed. That's my best advice.

I only skimmed over some replies, so apologies if I am repeating someone.

To the OP: I am assuming you have not played very many other MMOs. Let me explain something to you... I have played A LOT of MMOs, and am DEARLY impressed with ANent and their team for Guild Wars. You think they don't listen to us? They do.

Small example: Just the other day I was commenting to my husband about how amazing it was that there was a bug with the birthday event (the ticket rollbacks) that got fixed so quickly. It was a Saturday, they called people in. Heck, they don't even have their own forums, they have to patroll fan forums. It's amazing how much they actually DO care about their game.

I do realize you are also saying they don't listen to us about how we want the game to be. Okay, just look at fan site forums. I rarely see a company going to fan sites and posting polls and actively participating in forums discussion.

Second example: The farm nerf they did recently was bad, and many people complained. So within a day they actually admitted they went overboard and undid some of the changes. That is... amazing. Incredible. You know what would happen if a nerf like that went into most other MMOs out there? It would stay there. The company would believe the small, vocal, players complaining on the forums were over reacting, or would not even give a crap that it upset players.

You haven't seen a nerf until you see something like what happened to say, Star Wars Galaxies and their NGE update.

You have to realize two very important things about a game and especially this one right now.

First, this year is going to be tough for the people who work as devs and designers of GW. A lot of their resources (and by that I mean people who work there) are probably getting dragged over to work on GW2. A lot of their energy right now is going into making a whole new game. I, for one, am so glad I don't work for major gaming companies because of the pressure they are put under to produce a decent game in a set amount of time.

Secondly, there is a limit to what can be changed about a game before you are actually hurting it. Some things in GW may not change because it would actually be a BAD THING. The line of something being bad is drawn by the people who watch this game, who have built it, and have a direction they want it to go in.

Overall, you should realize that this is just a game and that these people aren't super human. And YES, there is no fee and they still manage to do the things they are doing, be amazed!

If something was nerfed that was dear to your little heart, look at the larger picture.

Lets take a look a basic human nature here.
People want what is beneficial to them not necessarily to what is best for others and we don't always think in the long term. Simple, right? So try to understand. ( I don't normally judge people by what side of the argument they are on but I will extend you the same courtesy that you have to others posting here).

I herd form people who play WoW that there are huge class imbalances; the devs can't fix that because there choices are too influenced by that fact it would cause 'immediate loss of revenue.' Do you really think the player of the game is unbiased enough to make decisions on the meta game? Don't you think they may say 'nay' if it would means there gaming experience is more of a challenge, if it would force them to find work-arounds?

Furthermore the no mouthy fees is a selling point; thus removing this could result in an 'immediate loss of revenue.'
I've tried to see things from your point of view before but I really can't get my head that far up my own asshole.

Also 'by the majority, people don't want mouthy fees... Hey maybe Anet does listen to us! Only you have to take others views into account as well (try to work on that )

To start with i don’t think monthly fees would have changed the decisions anet made to skills, maps; ect. They just made the changes because they thought it was the best thing to do at that time. Not that I agree with there changes…

If there was a monthly fee for GW form the start, the only difference would be that more people that prefer pve would have gone to WoW from the start instead of GW. Because WoW is better in every aspect if it comes to pve, even with the grind. (I have tried both).
The main reason Anet has attracted a lot of players is because there is no monthly fee. That’s also the reason a lot of people are still playing GW even if they think is not that great or even extremely boring.

Actually if u compare what u spend on GW and Wow:
If u buy every chapter of GW then u actually payed your monthly fee if u look at it… it just not so “scary” to pay because its payed in one time. Example:
WoW:
cost for the game: 20 euro
monthly fee: 30 euro if u only pay for 60 days (2month)
monthly fee if u pay for 6 month: 8 euros a month

so lets say u play 2 years:
20 + ( 8 * 24) = 212 euro

GW:
Cost game: 50 euro times 3 = 150 € for 2 years ( if u didn’t buy collectors and char slots) and in august it will be a nother 30 euros for gw:en

U see, its just that people think if they have to pay every month it costs more then paying one big amount every 6 month
So all gw players could have gone WoW if they wanted and just pay a little more (50-60 euro’s)

Why should established players get more say than newer players? I for one, don't give a damn how long you have been playing. How long you been playing means that you just found the box sitting on a store shelf before me or someone else did. Big-wup. While it might mean they no a little bit more of what they're talking about, there's not much difference. Besides, if you listen to "established" players, you're only listening to a small group of players.

If in anger, if in doubt - post in forums, bitch and pout.