So, I've been running around GW for a bit more than a year, and have tried to observe this, with less success than I would hope. (I think all the numbers flashing get distracting...)
So, for the observant or for the mathematically inclined, here's my question:
Is a +30 health mod "better" (i.e., will it keep you alive in battle longer?) than a +5 armor (or even +7 physical or +7 elemental)? Does the damage reduction over time of the armor mitigate the marginally lower health?
Or, is +30 a significant-enough step up (about 7 percent of your total health pool) to warrant the mod?
And, does it matter more what class / role you play? Is one mod more useful for warriors and dervishes, and the other more useful for rangers and casters? Is it situational?
Feel free to share anecdotes and observations and math.
HP+ 30 or Armor +5 always?
englitdaudelin
Diddy bow
im a pve'er myself and I prefer +30, in pve you need weaponry to be "jack of all trades" (hence +15^50 20/20 +30's are so popular) unlike +5 a +30 will ALWAYS help you whereas +5 excludes degen and armor ignoring. But i have a felling the +5 armor is more effective for that purpose.
well theres a pve perspecive anyway
well theres a pve perspecive anyway
Series
Diddy bow sums it up nicely. While +5 armor will give you more protection, you will be weaker against things such as degen.
Evilsod
Its not a question of mathematics...
An armour mod will work from the moment you get hit (aslong as its not armour ignoring/degen). A health mod will work when you get closer to 0 health. Absolutely nothing stopping you using a high AL set and switching to a high Health set when you're taking heavy damage. Sadly since all greens are +30 and i can't be arsed to make myself loads of +5AL weapons... i'm stuck with it.
Edit: Ok not all... but most, most of the ones with desirable mods are +30.
An armour mod will work from the moment you get hit (aslong as its not armour ignoring/degen). A health mod will work when you get closer to 0 health. Absolutely nothing stopping you using a high AL set and switching to a high Health set when you're taking heavy damage. Sadly since all greens are +30 and i can't be arsed to make myself loads of +5AL weapons... i'm stuck with it.
Edit: Ok not all... but most, most of the ones with desirable mods are +30.
SotiCoto
Not all greens are +30.
Granted... most of them are, but there are a few with armour mods.
I use health mods if there are health mods already there.... and as for Armour mods... I always go with +7 Elemental (and get rid of +7 Physicals on sight) because my Acolute Sousuke set-up always (or at least 95% of the time) carries Greater Conflagration... so there is no physical damage anyway...
It just makes sense...
Granted... most of them are, but there are a few with armour mods.
I use health mods if there are health mods already there.... and as for Armour mods... I always go with +7 Elemental (and get rid of +7 Physicals on sight) because my Acolute Sousuke set-up always (or at least 95% of the time) carries Greater Conflagration... so there is no physical damage anyway...
It just makes sense...
StormLord
Which one is more useful also depends on your health and armor level.
- If you have good health but low armor (for example, a caster or dervish with no major/superior runes), +5 armor will help you more.
- If you have low health but good armor (for example, a warrior with a superior rune), +30 health is better.
- If you have good health but low armor (for example, a caster or dervish with no major/superior runes), +5 armor will help you more.
- If you have low health but good armor (for example, a warrior with a superior rune), +30 health is better.
Dione Davore
I always have a weapon with +30 and one with +5A.
It's usefull in various situations and some are allready in posts above mine so I'll save myself some time. :P
It's usefull in various situations and some are allready in posts above mine so I'll save myself some time. :P
Fender
+5 AL in PvE
+30 hp in PvP
+30 hp in PvP
Master Ketsu
helath mods work the same way as deep wound, slashed from the bottom. The extra health is only their when you reach near death. In other words the best way to go is to have +5 armor on most of the time and then when your health approches <20% switch to +30. 
Stormlord Alex
Overall for PvE, you'll rarely be running into *massive* degen, armour ignoring damage or coordinated spikes. Here, the (age-old argument, here it comes!) a few hp saved from every hit given the +AL will more than likely add up to more than 30hp, making a Defense mod more desireable overall, especially on a front/midline class who would be more likely to take a few blows.
The only time I ever really tried for a high health PvE-wise was as a monk, big scary monsters seem more prone to feasting on a 446hp ele than a 600hp monk, leaving me free to go about preventing said ele from being eaten free from harassment.
For PvP, having high as health as possible is key. More durability to degen, damage of all sorts and, most importantly, spikes can be crucial - I've lost count of the times I've survived a perfectly executed 'sin combo from the +hp extra my equipment gave me.
However, as PvE overall is easy enough to not need *optimal* equipment, I mainly go for +hp mods anyway, and have my chars primed for PvP.
The only time I ever really tried for a high health PvE-wise was as a monk, big scary monsters seem more prone to feasting on a 446hp ele than a 600hp monk, leaving me free to go about preventing said ele from being eaten free from harassment.
For PvP, having high as health as possible is key. More durability to degen, damage of all sorts and, most importantly, spikes can be crucial - I've lost count of the times I've survived a perfectly executed 'sin combo from the +hp extra my equipment gave me.
However, as PvE overall is easy enough to not need *optimal* equipment, I mainly go for +hp mods anyway, and have my chars primed for PvP.
Gregslot
Quote:
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Originally Posted by StormLord
Which one is more useful also depends on your health and armor level.
- If you have good health but low armor (for example, a caster or dervish with no major/superior runes), +5 armor will help you more. - If you have low health but good armor (for example, a warrior with a superior rune), +30 health is better. |
Thats why i always try to give +armor to my casters.
But sometimes i like use +5 armor with my warrior if i really want to tank.
But that its just me beeing weird hahahaa
Bryant Again
I find that degen is killing me more than anything in PvE right now, so HP +30 helps out a lot.
Both mods work nicely. If you're undecided, I would apply the +5 armor on whatever item you have for the time being. They're much easier to replace than a +30, in case you change your mind.
Both mods work nicely. If you're undecided, I would apply the +5 armor on whatever item you have for the time being. They're much easier to replace than a +30, in case you change your mind.
AlienFromBeyond
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fender
+5 AL in PvE
+30 hp in PvP |
eightyfour-onesevenfive
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
big scary monsters seem more prone to feasting on a 446hp ele than a 600hp monk, leaving me free to go about preventing said ele from being eaten free from harassment.
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Coloneh
+5 is quite a bit better for normal pve.
arbiter
i think it depends on the character and gametype
pvp monk needs +health pvp warrior probably doesnt really need either
for pve ive always perfered 30 health, a lot of times you get spiked hard in the harder pve missions and more health is probably better than the tiny bit of extra armor
pvp monk needs +health pvp warrior probably doesnt really need either
for pve ive always perfered 30 health, a lot of times you get spiked hard in the harder pve missions and more health is probably better than the tiny bit of extra armor
Lurid
I like both, each in different situations. Generally speaking I don't use either on my Monk, because TBH I find a +20% Enchant to be more useful in most of my builds. However i've been known to use any of the three (+30, +5, +20%) on my Monk, just depends on the situation.
deadmonkey4u
Heres the general rule applied to PvP and works fine for PvE as well (note if you know ahead of time what your up against it may be different like if you play against a armor ignoring spike health is obviously superior)
Their are certain breakpoints for armor and health.
The effectiveness of Armor Scales down as you increase it.
In other words you need a balance of both.
What StormLord said is basically correct
"- If you have good health but low armor (for example, a caster or dervish with no major/superior runes), +5 armor will help you more.
- If you have low health but good armor (for example, a warrior with a superior rune), +30 health is better."
So it is both situational as well as class/role dependent.
If you have trouble deciding in PvP: generally your fine if you have 75 or so AL and around 600hp on your high hp set (including the shield)
In PvE this may be a bit different this is what will keep you up the best but not necessarily the best option. You may simply want to go heavier armor or something on a warrior so the AI has a higher priority to attack you.
If you want numbers
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ide-id1156.php
Their are certain breakpoints for armor and health.
The effectiveness of Armor Scales down as you increase it.
In other words you need a balance of both.
What StormLord said is basically correct
"- If you have good health but low armor (for example, a caster or dervish with no major/superior runes), +5 armor will help you more.
- If you have low health but good armor (for example, a warrior with a superior rune), +30 health is better."
So it is both situational as well as class/role dependent.
If you have trouble deciding in PvP: generally your fine if you have 75 or so AL and around 600hp on your high hp set (including the shield)
In PvE this may be a bit different this is what will keep you up the best but not necessarily the best option. You may simply want to go heavier armor or something on a warrior so the AI has a higher priority to attack you.
If you want numbers
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ide-id1156.php
madman24749
mmm there was some big guide someone made that covered a bunch of formulas and stuff and came up with the conclusion that +5 was a bit better, it was on the gameamp site but unfortunately I cant find it
I still use +30 though
Feels better
I still use +30 though
Feels better
deadmonkey4u
Quote:
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Originally Posted by madman24749
mmm there was some big guide someone made that covered a bunch of formulas and stuff and came up with the conclusion that +5 was a bit better
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. Its situational. You can do formulas and stuff based on you have this much life and this much armor and +5 will probably be better for most players, but in reality in PvP having like 90AL and like 455 hp or something is going to make you far easier to kill then someone with a better balance.Like I said their is a balance. As you up your armor the less useful it is. For the majority of the players who have casters without 16AL shields and wear like +energy armor and stuff the conclusion that +5 armor is better is pretty valid.
silara_jorinset
Obviously a little bored at work so thought I'd do a few calculations using the damage model detailed on guildwiki. Still need to factor in things like degen but for purely damage attacks (both large one source and small multiple attacks) +5 AL always seems to better 30hp for casters and melee professions. I'd be suprised if the 30hp offset the damage reduction from other sources for +5 AL during that time when degened so life stealing would the main reason for 30hp.
Feel free to pick out any errors/incorrect assumptions I've made in the calculations
Feel free to pick out any errors/incorrect assumptions I've made in the calculations
Witte Was
+5 armor. No discussion
Thomas.knbk
A caster nowadays already runs around with 76 or 86 armor if they swap correctly. Warriors run around with 96-116. Armor works exponentially, which means that the difference between 60 and 65 armor is a lot bigger than the difference between 86 and 91. (60-65 is 8,3% less damage, 85-90 is only 5,3% less damage, 95-100 is 4,5% less damage and 115-120 is 3,2% less damage. If you're in one of those retarded 5 paragons builds (i.e 150 armor) the difference is under 1,5%.)source: click here
So, if you run around with 60 armor, a +5AL mod is quite good, but if you do, you should ask yourself: Why the hell are you running around with 60 AL with +10AL insignia's, shields, and +AL mods on focus items/shields available? That's right. There's no good excuse for running around with 60AL.
That means if you have sub-optimal equipment, which can be a factor especially in pve where you can't just get perfect armor out of a menu, you're probably better off with a +5 armor mod. If you do have perfect equipment, the difference your armor makes becomes smaller very, very rapidly, so you're way better off with a +30 health mod: Health doesn't work exponentially, and the difference between 450 and 480 health is just as big as the difference between 650 and 680.
So, if you run around with 60 armor, a +5AL mod is quite good, but if you do, you should ask yourself: Why the hell are you running around with 60 AL with +10AL insignia's, shields, and +AL mods on focus items/shields available? That's right. There's no good excuse for running around with 60AL.
That means if you have sub-optimal equipment, which can be a factor especially in pve where you can't just get perfect armor out of a menu, you're probably better off with a +5 armor mod. If you do have perfect equipment, the difference your armor makes becomes smaller very, very rapidly, so you're way better off with a +30 health mod: Health doesn't work exponentially, and the difference between 450 and 480 health is just as big as the difference between 650 and 680.
deadmonkey4u
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Witte Was
+5 armor. No discussion
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Raw calculations that are basically assuming oh the other team doesnt use vamp, armor ignoring, or have any degen doesnt exactly work.
Not to mention other factors like DP and VoD
Pariah 69
I always go with +30Hp, not because I do any thinking or math over it, +30 or any +Hp mod just seems better since I don't think about it much. More Hp= staying alive longer. I also have no idea how +armour works, I guess I never looked into it much, and since you tend to see +30Hps as being worth much more than +5 armours...I guess I just kinda "grew up" around the idea that everyone likes +30s.
deadmonkey4u
Yea its a common idea that +30's are the way to go, but in reality it depends. The funny part is that a large majority of those that think +30 is better on their char are mistaken
Priest Of Sin
I prefer +7 vs elemental on my warrior, +5 vs all on my assassin.
Effendi Westland
+5 all on my homemade cleaver from droks.
Sad all the nice greens have +30 hp.
Sad all the nice greens have +30 hp.