Please nerf Orion ?

Im doing the eye for profit mission near druids overlook, with lvl 12 henchies, against lvl 17 MOBs, and Orion have singlehandedly managed to wipe me twice now, he throws that fire storm, and all the MOBs run to the next set of MOBs, getting an additional group engaged in an already skewed fight, 5 stalkers can spike any of the lvl 12 henchies in just 2 secs.

Please please dear Anet, remove fire storm from Orion, no other mage out there worth his salt uses that spell of doom, that spell of partywipe+5, why must Orion carry it still

LOL

who brings the mage henchie?

All he's good for is a victory firestorm after everything is dead.

Hehehe well Im not proud to admit that I like that fire guy, but his storms are just too nasty to use, a player with a brain can use it to GREAT effect, but Orion, not a chance.
Maybe make him a water mage instead of fire, that way he can compliment players using area spells by slowing, instead of scattering, then he would have a good use ?

LOL~! Nothing else needs to be said after this.

Maybe Enough Said

Lol, ok, nuff said

Solution: don't bring him.

Lol, i agree. Make him water, or switch fire storm for something else like rodgorts invocation or something.

Unfortunately, Orion does use Fireball and Incendiary Bonds and does a decent amount of AoE damage. When I'm playing as my Monk, it sometimes gets very frustrating when Stefan and Little Thom keep slowly whacking away at mobs. Orion definitely speeds up the killing process, until of course he decides to unleash his FS. I agree with the OP though -- simply remove FS from his skill bar and he will be a far, far more useful henchman.

On the other hand, Reyna I feel is utterly useless, except for the fact that she simply stays alive the longest and occasionally throws in an interrupt. I don't know why Anet made her the way she is. I mean, just look at those Avicara Fierce -- the SOBs can spike you so hard it's scary. Agreed that they are higher level than Reyna, but I still feel her AI/skill-set is messed up, she simply doesn't deal damage.

Archer and mesmers henchies just don't have the human element that makes them own so much in real arenas. Maybe just make reyna INTERUPT and dunham spam degen, at least they do something that even the brainless fools who plague the random arenas can't do. Orion as an earth mage using wards + KD/AS would be pretty good, ward against melee would REALLY help in hells when you got all these hands and fists swarming you. Now warriors on the other hand..........if I could, I would take stephan or little thom instead of a human tank for obvious reasons *gets killed by angry wammos*

Never bring Orion.

That's about it. Oh, unless you have to in a mission where you can't afford to have Thom and/or Stefan being a moron, then I guess you can bring Orion, but try to get him stuck on terrain.

Yeah, he casts FS.....BOOM DEAD
And all he does besides FS enemies is cast FS on their DEAD bodies, stated above Orion=Sack o' Shit in the long run. Just take Stefan, Alesia, and teh archer and you'll kill fast enough.

I guess im the only one Orion likes... he hardly ever firestorms dead things anymore, however the fact dudes run from the firestorm can make a fight drag out just a little longer than id like

nah, id much rather focus my point of anger at those morons who give us warrior-lovers a bad name...earlier today i was in a group with a lvl 19 w/mo using a hammer, who had less staying ability than the character i was using...my new level THIRTEEN w/r sword war...it makes me want to cry that a class wth so much potential is seen as nothing more than cannon fodder except by those who have been in the presence of skilled warriors and thus know what we're capable of.

I too have sadly abandoned Orion, who once was seen as a necessity among henchie users. I think the bulk of us agree that the AoE patch added more to the game than it took away, but I guess I still have reservations about how brainless the AI reaction is to AoE spells. How does a human player react to AoE spells? Well, typically they DO run away from them (unless they're about to get a kill, unless they don't want thier enemies to have a chance to heal, unless they don't want to get hit for extra damage while running away, etc.) but the AI just immediately brainlessly runs away, aggroing extra groups of monsters. While in some cases AoE spells can still be useful, I find that the coordination and skill needed to really use them doesn't mesh with the click-bomb mentality of elementalists. Somehow, scattering a group of enemies causing them to run into another group (naturally pursued by equally mindless "spacebar" wammos) causing your party to die, or scatting enemy warriors into your monks, just causes more harm than good most of the time.

Farewell Orion - we shall never meet again.....unless ANet fixes you. *laugh*

Seriously though, RIP.

-Jess

orion sucks donkey balls...
he is a piece of crap

claude is a million times better than him...
and all claude does is spam blood ritual

here is a nice fire elementalist...

1) primary spell: flare then to something more expensive/elite
(flare is ok in the newb beginning but then change it to fireball or flameburst especially when he gets higher energy storage and ether prodigy)

2) aoe attack
firestorm (since you people love it so much) - possibly change to meteor shower but i don't think meteor shower is worth its casting cost...

the other 6 skills
3) meteor (a quick drop on enemies with knockdown for only 5 mana)
4) lava font (when people beat him up, this will cause monsters to not rape him)
5) phoenix (another power/defensive move espeically when being targeted)

6) aura of restoration (for healing)

7) a nice elite like ether prodigy or fireattunement (since he's like the MTG prodigal sorcerer) ((something to get him some mana flowing))

8) rez signet? or something cheap easy and mean like inferno (flameburst if its not taken yet) or even incendiary bonds...

(NO RODGORT CRAP, atleast not for a simple spamming henchie)

ORION AI: stop having him burn his mana spamming flare... or trying to get up an AOE on the beginning or end moment of a battle...

have him play slow and decisively (this will help with his crappy AOE attack)

let him be able to do a HP check against a mob and determine if they are engaged... then let him drop his aoe on the mob that your fighter henchies are engaging...

let him always have spare mana for lava font/flameburst/phoenix defensive...

let him know to try and do a touching phoenix against an engaged boss or mob of warriors

let him do random meteor drops based on mana rating (like hydra does)
((preferably just like hydra since meteor is a cheap fast spell which never misses unlike fire storm, and gives your team a chance to first strike))

basically turn ORION into a cross between DESERT HYDRA and ARMAGEDDON ISLAND DRAKE
have him efficiently utilize quick inexpensive spells with a slow secondary profile of attack (as in... REYNA attacks first as an archer, THOM/STEFAN as fighters, then ORION as the finisher/check at mid HP)

speaking of the topic, alesia sux too
i'm assuming she's pure healing so...

1) resurrect (duh)
2) healing breeze (spamming heal)
3) healing touch (auxiliary personal heal)
4) heal other (alternative heal)

(protection spells? i've seen reverse fortune but i think it comes from lina... if alesia does use protection then she should be a bonder or atleast take care of herself more... otherwise...)

5) possibility combo (or vigorous spirit)
6) possibility combo (or heal area with a nice pathfinding AI)

7) healing seed (give alesia healing seed over word of healing... this is an expensive/and kinda dumb exchange but alesia gets her ass kicked too much (without protection or divine favor)... so since she's just healing she needs to rethink her moves... she should seed either the fighter henchman or the PLAYER CHARACTER and stand next to him getting some cheap seed heal... the fighter henchmen should primarily defend the PLAYER CHARACTER... and secondarily defend ALESIA/MENHLO )

8) switch elite healing hands for word of healing (healing hands will keep her alive if she gets rushed by archers and fighters)


ALESIA POSSIBILITY COMBOS
since alesia loses word of healing and essentially doesn't become the lifesaver that word of healing allows people to become... she will have to work a better combo or go another route for saving henchmen/you...

there is always an easy switch to mostly healing and some protection
such as mark of protection (if she goes protection...)
along with reverse fortune

or she could try several ways of keeping people alive... like infuse health and some way of personal regen such as heavy mending/ live vicariously with stefan/thom combo or whatever can be worked out

(menhlo uses word... and he's has divine favor on his side i'm assuming... word is very nice spell and essential to healers... but since alesia is doomed to die herself.. she won't be alive to heal anyone... try to make her either aggressive with healing seed/hands or make her run away more with word of healing... either change would be nice)

ALESIA needs more mana... so give her regen TATS on HEAD, HANDS, FEET
give her a nice mana wand and mana icon... get rid of the staff which is keeping her out of the higher mana eschelon...

one more thing... HOW COME MONSTER MOBS ARE SMART ENOUGH TO RUN AWAY FROM AOE... BUT HENCHMEN ARE STILL RETARDED!

why does brother menhlo/alesia stand next to the fighters???

finally, if the player character is a monk... have all the monk henchmen stand next to/behind him... the damn monks deliberately run away from my heal area...

You're right, but its been several weeks since I've been in a group where I didn't hear that whoosh sound and the little blue aura *cough mending. Even though skull crack is sucky because of the adrenaline cost, this one tank brought it with him in random arena. Well, lets just say that ele never spammed stone daggers again ^_^. Good warriors OWN, but bad warriors SUCK, its like a double or nothing thing.

But even aside from the anti caster role, there were a few tanks with some good DPS while keeping themselves alive, like NOT using frenzy and spamming ripostles and stuff and using common sense like ineptitude = bad. Other smart tanks I've seen will lay OFF the guy who has SoJ on him and hamstring the frenzy'ing mofo chasing our monk around. Right now the tanks in random arena are so comical because they'll murder themselves and their entire team to kill one enemy. Hell spiteful spirit, empathy, price of failure, sympathetic visage, and weakness to top it off. Every time I see a warrior who won't stop attacking a guy before he commits suicide, I always have this image of a nerd in real life going into battle rage who can't stop himself since his fury is SO great and his wrath is SO mighty. Yea...that might be pushing it, but I bet you go D'oh when you die from SS because the guy next to you couldn't cool off for 15 seconds.

while beefing/speeding up ORION's build i forgot about CYNN, who is supposed to to be better than him... so either CYNN needs to change to AIR ELEMENTALIST which would be nice with lightning orb and chain lightning... or we need to try something interesting with firespam


CYNN's build...
1) a heavy fire, air or earth attack (firestorm is requested) yes, firestorm!

2) glyph of renewal (elite)
3) glyph of sacrifice
4) meteor shower to knockdown the foes in between firestorms

so what CYNN does is she spams 3 firestorms in a row with first casting renewal, firestorm and then sacrifice, meteor shower/storm, then another firestorm to hit the knocked down creatures

so, 3/4ths of the map should be in flames if everything goes well

5) phoenix or lava font or flameburst if monsters target her for teh rape
6) fireball, inferno or rodgorts invocation depending on energy storage/mana supply after all those spells

7) fire attunement (mana regen)
8) aura of restoration (healing) /considering menhlo and lina will be with you.. you could probably scrap this for fireball or rez signet

with her 11-22 firestaff/rod with icon... she won't need to do flare or anything retarded...

warning: another henchman remake...


stefan and thom have been deemed too weak and retarded as well...

they need to stop wasting slots on sprint and do nothing skill... they need to be more aggressive and attack more ferociously (without frenzy of course)

STEFAN remake (strength and sword)
1) "charge" elite, was sprint before ascension
2) shield bash
3) seeking blade, hamstring, protector's strike or bull's strike are a possibility

4) sever artery
5) galrath slash
6) savage slash

7) endure pain / or healing signet
8) rez signet

stefan's job is to guard the healer henchies by interrupting everyone
and occassionally attacking the bosses

he has sprint, charge so he can quickly run at foes and do hamstring/savage slash/shieldbash etc.... depending on his final layout and the situation

stefan has nice armor but he needs a better sword with more dmg and possibly upgrades/personalized with more % dmg


THOM remake (AXE AND TACTICS)

the main problem with thom is he doesn't have interrupting abilities so if he fights a healer or ranger it will take a million years for him to kill the enemy
so now we've traded the mean big thom for a more craftier lil thom

1) disrupting chop - used to defend allies and interrupt bosses/casters
2) swift chop - chance to wound blocker in a stance (this could be traded for something meaner or an elite or sub "shields up" as thom's group move... thom and stefan don't need to both do sprint and charge... those are 2 wasted skillslots)

3) desparation blow - random condition or "fear me!" if thom falling down all day looks too stupid (or "to the limit!" for adrenal)

4) dismember - wound
5) axe rake - wound to cripple or a power move like executioner strike
6) "victory is mine" elite - gain from all the wounds or eviscerate if victory is mine is unfeasible

7) healing signet
8) rez signet

/distracting blow and wild blow are possibilities also

AI: thom's goal is to injure everyone and gain hp/energy from victory is mine
(stefan doing sever artery will help too)

thom is a fat guy so you don't need to waste his skillslot on sprint or charge...

to make up for the fact that all the powermoves have been removed for injury moves... thom will need a custom/personalized axe with +15% and possibly for it to be cruel axe with adrenal boosts

the best bet is to tandem the two fighters
have stefan randomly target all of the nearby monsters
perform sever arteries and galrath slashes against them
then have thom come around and reap the health and energy rewards
possibly give thom cyclone axe... having thom stand in the middle of the monsters... and stefan sprinting around them doing cripple


also thom and stefan are going to be weak to fleshless entities like the undead

From what I can see, you want to turn the Henches into OMFGBBQSAUSAGESW/SAUCEPWNAGE'D players free_xbox. But the thing is, arenanet wants to encourage play with other human players. So basically, what your plan will do is make henches the equivalent of human players and thus remove a lot of the incentive for partying.

Just my take on it.

Why not change Orion's AI so that he casts Fire Storm first thing, and then not again? That'd make him a lot more useful, and predictable. Minus the AoE monster scatter, which kinda cracks me up.

i hear you on the SS...
a few weeks ago i went to fow for the hell of it with a PUG (not something i do terribly often, since most people just plain flat out cant play the game intelligently), utilizing my (if i may say so muself) godly stance-tank build, with the book trick.
we have 2 damn good monks, 2 damn good kd eles (who actually knew how to use knockdown as a caster disruption, as opposed to beating up abbysals), a damn good r/mo interuptor/damager (uses the same fow interuption build as my ranger; cholking+tigers; concussion, distracing, barrage+judges) and myself and 2 other warriors.
the general idea is a simple one to grasp...i tank the damage, the eles do thier thing the ranger does his, the monks do theirs and the other warriors, who have a more damage-oriented build, focus on keeping wayward foes off our casters.
instead?
EVERY SINGLE TIME we hit shadows, these 2 numbnuts come rushing in with FRENZY, not flurry, not tigers...FRENZY and front-line the battle...
now, if i have to tell you why fighting numerous shadows with frenzy+ss is a BAD IDEA, you may have been one of those warriors...but in general its pretty self explanatory...needless to say they did it over and over and over and over again. so eventually i just left, and got some nasty whispers from the other guys and rightfully so, it wasnt their fault those 2 bafoons were messing it up, but i was ready to hang myself

Alesia [Smiter Henchman] = problems solved

The trick with Orion is to leave him in the town. But if he were to use Rodgorts invocation instead of firestom, he'd be useful. Also firestom makes a very good SHELTER SPELL if u are being overwhelmed! Maybe a strategy change is in the works for him?

[I mean, just look at those Avicara Fierce -- the SOBs can spike you so hard it's scary. ]

Lol I can solo Avicara Fierce with my W/Mo, it's so easy it's pathetic. I do them every run to the troll cave and any groups of 4 I can find that only has 1 Wise and 2 Fierce and 1 Brave or 1 Wise and 1 Fierce and 2 Brave as well. It's all in the "thought" process when making a build to kill something solo. What do they do to me, how can I counter it with the least possible skills and still maintain my health.

But, on the note of Orion and Cynn, I just don't take them anymore. They both will get you into more trouble than they are worth by ending the battle sooner. I'd rather take a little longer to finish a battle than to be finished by it in a shorter period of time. When I need henchies I basically take the ranger, necro and the two monks and occassionally the messer. I leave the warriors and mages behind. The warriors can be just as deadly to a group because when I'm pulling with my bow they run forward thus increasing the agro range.

I would agree though to taking the AOE spell off of the mages, then I would take them again.

Also on that note: Henchies are made to be an alternative to grouping, they aren't meant to be your best friends. I see an awful lot of people who want to build henchies to be superior and thus make things easier to deal with. That destroys the challenge of course and I must say as the henchies are now they do make for some careful planning and thinking, but, no zone or mission has been "impossible" while using them. Once you learn what they do use, then you build yourself around that and that's what works for me.

Quoted for truth!

--The Shim

W/ME for the WIN!