Anti-Runners idee

No to your suggestion

You are suggesting a very huge and negative change to the: gameplay, economy (which has already suffered enough controls), and general mood of players.

First time through, sure, not a problem. Second, third, fourth. Well, its supposed to be a game, a way to relax and enjoy your free-time, not work. If you enjoy repeating all the quests and missions over and over, you are free to do so. But, there's no sense in wasting everyone elses time just because you dont like what you perceive as laziness.

So, once again, I am ABSOLUTELY AGAINST this.

No, because I can't find people for it. Most of them seem more interested in finding new ways to circumvent playing the game rather than putting in the effort to go do it - or "helping" others do same.

I partly dispute calling them "storyline" quests - after all, to get them I have to fullfill the Flameseeker Prophecies, right ?

But won't you agree that if more people thought of playing quests/missions and the story as a challenge rather than as obstacles they have to find ways around, there would be more people actually doing the Titan quests ? Hmm ?
(For that matter you may argue that the Domain of Anguish is a NF storyline section as well - I'm loathe to do so given its both its rather fearsome reputation and -intentional- high difficulty level. And remember that the Titan quests were not part of the original Prophecies but were, IIRC, added later (29th of September 2005) as (quote) "veteran-level quests" - you might call them the precursor to Elite Missions

The problem isn't just Beacon's anymore, unfortunately.
It's spread from there to Lion's Arch (ToA/Cay run - ToA I can marginally understand, it's in a real sucky location), Kamadan (various ferries), etc ...
Add it all up and it's become a major problem that deserves a thorough solution.

But really, ask yourself -why- people don't know about Titan quests; I can name a few reasons:

1. People who re-enter the Forge from Hell's Precipice are only too happy to have "finished it" and are already looking towards other shores
2. Those who ARE trying to do them have to spam their LFG's in various outposts for hours on end (or hope they have enough friends to form a group) and compete for chat space with either runners or people who are 'home' in that area and haven't got the slightest idea what a Titan quest is yet, why it is very hard to do, and if they learn, they typically want none of it

Yes, I am advocating a change that will negatively impact a group of very vocal players that are abusing sections of the game for their own gain
at the cost of others.

I am going to remind you too, that you unlock locations by character, not by account. Or would you have preferred that instead ?

I feel left out that MY post didn't get the same "dissect-into-itty-bits-then-debunk-with-personal-opinions" treatment. :/

Well, my mistake

Though still, you didn't do it on purpose, nor to get fancy gear. It was just a fortuitous occassion of a guild mate helping out


Running isn't exploiting a flaw, or something would have been done to forestall it. Especially since they did such a good job blocking that activity in Factions, then reinstated the ability in nightfall to a great extent.

If not wanting to spend hours and hours playing the same Game content over and over again makes me lazy, then I gladly wear the title; I have more productive things to do...

Yes, this game is meant to be played. It's a Role Playing Game; You can decide to play however you want. That's what makes it different from first person shooters or other such games.

What exactly are you refering to as n00b content? No one in this thread, from what I can see, is complaining about the low level areas, they are simply stating the virtues of not being FORCED to partake in them. It doesn't hurt anyone to run. They don't get brain damage, the don't get lung cancer, they don't get a bad sunburn. The only thing they are missing is game content that more than likely a great majority of them have seen before. Everyone here has enjoyed playing through the game content, and it is commendable that you still find it fun to do after 6 characters. And I truely wish you the best of luck in your Cartographer endevour

And Cjad the Nord, you summed it up the best. Why would it bother anyone how others play the game if it doesn't affect them? Runners and Runnee's aren't exploiting or damaging the program. I admit, some running techniques do bend a bit to the shady side (the Kamadan - LA guildhall ferry being the best example), However the only person who is affected is the runner (time and profit if they are charging for the run) and the runnee (Saved time, better armor, loss of money if the runner is charging etc.).

As I said before, Guild Wars is a Role Playing Game. This gives the player in the game the ability to make decisions, and that is what makes GW so fun. Should I save my money, or should I buy that icy dragon sword? Should I go north and go to Bettletun, or south and go to Bergen Hotsprings? Should I skip this scene where [blocked content for new players] Dies or keep watching? Should I spend my money and pay 2k for that run to Yaks from Ascalon, or should I scout beyond the the Northern Wall, be pushed back to Fort Ranik by the dreaded Charr, break out of Fort Ranik and head north and go to the destroyed city and get transported to this other town where I get to watch Rurick get kicked out of the house by his Dad... again.

Everyone has the freedom to do so. Why restrict?

Why call a guy a 'NOOB' or 'laim' for getting his character to Droks? You never know they are 'NOOB' or not, since you are not them.

It is not bad, since it saves time for getting to a particular place.

You are not making any money either. Games are meant to be wasting our time, not making money.

Running to a specific place is not cheating. Botting is.

This thread is pointless... The OP doesn't make a clear explanation on WHY they should add gates in Tyria. I'm getting a headache from reading this... Mainly because I don't like the OP's attitude, and go randomly calling people 'N00B" for a stupid reason.

I love how you keep contradicting yourself like that. You say you want to basically lock up people's ability to go where they please, but keep stressing how locations are unlocked per character and not by account.

... You're not supposed to be further stressing how bad an idea this is by saying something like that. And to think, this is what you do when you agree.

That's a mighty opinionated statement there. Most people are not just sitting around thinking, "how can I get my lvl 3 monk from Kamadan to Vabbi in only 1 hour?" like you seem to think they are. Most people are doing the missions, which means, last time I checked, they are playing the game (even in your strange sense). For that matter, a person who is getting run is "playing the game" since they are logged in.

So instead of letting people play the game how they want, you want to cram one play style down everyone's throat? Something that forces everyone to do something they might not want to do, sounds like fun, or maybe I could go to school, which sounds more fun in comparison.


As far as I can see, the whole point you're trying to argue is based around a campaign that has been out for two years. Quite frankly, two years ago, I was playing Battlefield 2, and now I'm playing Battlefield 2142. Prophecies is old, get over it. The real reason you can't find a group in the Jungle is not because Joe The Warrior is running lvl 5's to Droknar's, it's because there are two newer campaigns with more interesting content.

So instead of the players being run from one place to another, there will be lots of level 3's in town spamming for runners for that mission instead. How does that contribute to the overall playing population in those areas?

How is this at the cost of others? I saw in a previous post you said that its cause theres less players to play iwth if they get ran. Who says theyd play with you if they didnt get ran? I wouldnt. I play with hench/heroes cause they are far superior to 90% of the players out there.

Um who cares? what does this have to do with people wanting to get any char they want to ran?



Also if you closed off tyria all of a sudden all youre going to do is make people upset. Then you would end up with people leeching in missions. Intead of being ran to droks they will stand at the begining of the missions. Or if they made it to where you had to be with group they would just follow but not do anything. This is a horrible idea and I would seriously hope it never happened. I doubt it will though so im not worried.

Not to put down the freedom of speech, but seriously these ppl need to STF about telling ppl to play the game only how they precieve it to be played. Now i have 19 chars theres no way in hell im doing the long way on each. You dont like ppl being run fine thats you're perogetive, But dont even think you can force me to play your way cause you cant find a group or even use henchies.

LMFAO omg lame idea

/not signed
/not signed

Stop being lazy, put in the grind and hard work, don't you know that it's a serious business where you're affecting people you don't know half way across the world!

Jesus, anyone would think this was a game!

Thats exactly what's nice about Guild Wars, its NOT a grind. Don't try turning it into one like every other game out there.

Umm, what? you're going to have to explain that as it really doesnt make any sense to me.

Please tell me why you think that running is a good thing.
Why skip a large part of the game, the game was made 2 play not 2 skip a large part of it.
Put some effort in your game play.
Just like ClanYumemiru said. The game is an privilege. Play the game how it's ment 2 be not how you people seem fit.
the only thing some of you do here is going in a circle only to keep saying that running is good and there should not place gates.
Are some of you blind, don't you see our point of view.

Adding gates to Tyria would be a great way to reduce the population of early areas from very few to none+cartographers.

People hate pugs. People hate gates. You're not going to force them to party with you by removing all alternatives, no matter how much you try. They'll leave the continent first, and the game later.


Aside from that, how would you deal with people who enter Tyria for the first time from Cantha or Elona? Will they automatically have the road to Ascalon unlocked, or will they have to do some silly set of non-tyrian only quests to run the storyline backwards?

If you have it unlocked for non-Tyrians, won't people who want to avoid playing through the Tyrian storyline just map the area out using non-Tyrian characters instead? Wouldn't that just have increased the number of people who avoid Tyrian characters purely to avoid the early grind, thereby removing even more people from early quests and missions?


This game may well be a privilege (i consider it a product, but i digress), but it's a privilege that people can and will walk away from if/when it stops being entertaining. If people currently don't find doing early missions and quests entertaining, they're going to go play something else that is, whether that something else is in Guild Wars or not.

Nose > Spite > Face.

/NOTSIGNED
Why limit us even more?

/signed

Because I believe that it's doing damage to the game as a whole by allowing people to skip over "undesirable" sections of the game, and removes part of the challenge factor of the game

/notsigned

Because it's a crude and inelegant solution, which creates two tiers of characters - those before and those after, and because Prophecies presents its own daunting challenges that set it apart from the other two.

That said, I find it hard to condone or support running, but I also understand people's positions in this thread; yes, you are free to play the game as you choose, unfortunately for me that includes running - and the chances of -major- changes being implemented to combat or curb it are frankly nil.

I have found the various arguments presented on both sides of the issue very enlightening, very interesting even, kudos to the people who entered the discussion and put their points forward rather than just giving a kneejerk reaction - I apologize if I offended anyone with my rather harsh tone - none was intended, but I sometimes get a little carried away in a heated debate

Now to find another "hot" issue and do it all over again.
Oh - AFTER I finish my next character project; and no, I'm not using runs or ferries

just becasue you are to poor to aford a run dosen't mean no one can get one.

we earned our money for the run so we arn't lazy.
i got better things to do than play through prophesis for a third time just to cap some elite.

/notsigned, removing running from factions and NF was the stupidest thing ever... factions is hard because it's almost impossible to get a group, and NF is just too RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing long!

/not signed

What bothers me: people trying to affect the gameplay of everyone else solely based on their opinions and personal experience, without trying to gather larger samples of data to back up their arguments.

No one cares what you feel running is doing to the game. No one cares what you believe running is doing to the game. If you can show that running is having a negative impact or positive impact using statistical analysis (i.e. regressing the number of players in a certain mission based off of the cost of runs), then people should listen to you (they probably still won't. You'll probably still have to deal with the 12 year olds, you know who you are!)

This, of course, is probably beyond what most people want to do with their time (thankfully so!)

Just remember, whenever you get into a heated argument based solely on your opinions and personal experiences (for or against running), your arguments are equally invalid.

If they didn't want people to run, they would've closed Lornar's Pass long ago, or better yet, they wouldn't have made it. It serves no purpose in the storyline.

Nobody does Titan Quests because the rewards blow. What do I need 50K exp for at the end of the game? A few skill points? I never seem to run too low on those, even when all of my chars have UAS for their primaries and a good number of secondary skills. If Titan Quests were giving out a good deal of gold or the chance at some ultra-rare items, people would do them much more frequently.

The problem is there are no reliable or representative statistics, so all everyone has to go on (including myself) is personal experience over game time. Which is all I, or anyone else who has weighed into this debate, can speak for. Your mileage may (and probably will) vary.

Well said!

And well said again. It won't stop people from trying - but that's OK.
There's nothing wrong with a healthy debate about gameplay functionality. But then, I'm probably biased, being a QA/design freelancer - GW is *supposed* to be my relaxation but I just can't turn off my "test & analysis mode" after I'm done on whatever it is I am working on - call it a personality flaw

There are several other explorable zones that qualify for that dubious honor as well, however,these areas are what makes Tyria what it is - plus it's a good place to get goodies if you have the guts to play there, not ?

Totally agreed - if the quests gave a type of collectable token that could be traded for some form of useful (unique/high end) items (sort of like the end of game items from Factions/NF, or the golds from Anguish) I think people would be far more motivated to play them.

/notsigned

I am sick of all of these self centered people who think everyone should play the game the way THEY do.

NEWSFLASH: Most people getting runs have already beat that chapter 3+ times, and don't want to do the parts they don't like again. The main reason people hate factions is because of locked gates.

I actually question the validity of this suggestion. It really seems like someone is having fun irritating most of the players.

Judging from the fact that A-net allowed running to return in Nightfall, I'm quite confident that they know where most of the community sits on this issue.

If this is a serious suggestion, and those arguing for it are serious, I'm sorry for doubting your seriousness, but still /unsigned.

If this is a joke to you, hope you had your laugh, but enough is enough.

People who have beaten this game twice, will (most of the time) think of redoing it as boring, waste of time, and so on.
I think that myself, and this is the number one reason why I hate Factions. The gates offer no freedom at all, the game is so linear, that it gets boring before you're out of Kaineng.
"Gates" was also something that I disliked about Nightfall, but at least they put some class to it. You can't get to Bone Palace because of the wastes, and Vabbi can't be accesed because of the Fortress of Jahai. At least it's not a shot gate with an NPC saying "You can't pass".
Running is what made Prophecies a better campaign then NF and Factions for me.

/not signed

/unsigned, everything that needed to be said has been.

Want an ida for antirunners?

Just make all campaings like Nightfall.
Start missions by talking to an NPC, and the NPC do not show up the mission until you make the Primary Quests.

You want a Droknar armor? You can go there or hav a runner bring you there.
You want toget to amber camp? You make all missions.

That's fair enough.

For the first time ever, I recently ran my level 10 Prophecies character to Lion's Arch. This wasn't actually that difficult, I never did die once on the run from Old Ascalon to Lion's Arch, though I did sacrifice some of the Henchies that were with me. Knowing the route helps. Most people paying for the LA run should just get a good game map and run themselves and save money. Really, save your money, spend 3 minutes planning a run. And screw going to Droknar's unless you need max armor and can't get it from another campaign area.

The reason I decided to run my character was three-fold:

-I wanted to get my new character his Heroes in Elona and Lion's Arch

-I intended on bypassing the jungle Missions because I couldn't figure out how to Hench the Aurora Glade Mission in the past.

-I wanted to get my Necro in max value armor, not the 15k crap, but the max cap armor level for his profession and the Consulate Docks or Kaineng City is the perfect place.

After I got my Heroes and Armor, I was level 14. I went back picked up the Old Ascalon Missions and did those missions all the way to Yak's Bend and did the mission/quest path to the Gates of Lion's Arch. At that point, I hopped over to LA and ran to Sanctum Cay.

I love Prophecies but I don't like waiting so far into the campaign to get my max level armor and I find most of the jungle missions annoying. (although this may be much improved now that we have controllable Henchies and Heroes.)

Busy body tactics to stop this will not be a good move.

Anet has justifiable reasons to rein in "running" but Anet is also smart enough to leave the door open a crack to allow players to do some "runs".

As for the Droks run, I find that run insane and largely useless unless you only own Prophecies. If you can get your character to Lion's Arch, Temple of Ages/Fishermen's Haven/Sanctum Cay is pretty easy <if you know the route>. Some of the real fun missions, in my opinion, are in the desert. Also, everyone needs their attribute quests.

Clan, the people who get runs are - in general - the veterans who don't want to play through the campaign for a 2nd, 3rd, 6th time. So, they skip the parts they don't want to play, to get to the parts that they DO want to play. *GASP*, people actually doing what they like to do, instead of slogging through content they don't like to get to where they want to be. Horrifying, it must be stopped!

It's not affecting your game. Even if people WERE forced to play through every mission in Prophecies to move forward, you know what? There STILL wouldn't be anyone in those abandoned outposts, because the same veterans who get runs in Tyria have become the large portion of the population who grab 3 heros, 4 henchies, and bolt through the storyline. You will not gain any teammates by forcing them to play through the missions; you will only annoy people who don't want to play through missions that have been there for 2 years.

You sir, are ignoring my previous post on this thread.

EVERYONE HAS THE FREEDOM TO DO WHAT THEY WANT!

And not only that... I doubt anyone would like to the same mission over and over and OVER again. It is too time consuming.

Each and every one of us has our own playing style in guild wars. Your thread are only trying to restrict everyone's play style into yours.

WWJD?

/NOT SIGNED

That's what John (Hancock) would do.

My lord, did you even read the FOUR pages of discussion after your original post?

I forward the same statement...err...question to you!

Sometimes the freedom of others is inconvenient. People just don't always do things the way you want or as often as you want. And sometimes people are just downright uncooperative. Especially when you want to make a really big omelet and break a few eggs in order to do it. Sure, there not always your eggs, but you make a mean omelet!

Historically, designing a dreamy utopia for human beings has usually involved a lot of body bags and bullets, and it never seems to turn out as planned. For some reason the survivors of the utopian construction process always seem to be the ungrateful sort.

Just skipping to the end is illogical in a roleplaying game.

Imagine they let you skip in Factions or Nightfall. Everyone make and delete characters to get skip directly to endgame greens.

Of course, if they make Prophecies the same way, requiring you to do primary quests and all missions, they SHOULD add some kind of reward at the end like Nightfall and Factions, otherwise even less people would go to prophecies for anything but getting some of the Armors, Sorrow's Furnace or getting titles.

I still want Rurik's Sword and shield, lich staves, Saidra's bow, etc... at the endgame in Prophecies!

All fine and good, however there aren't endgame greens in Prophecies, and there most likely will never be.

The use of gates in Factions was one of Anets worse ideas. It removed the idea of a complete open world where you can and do what ever you want. You were restricted to following a liniar story, and it wasnt an MMO anymore in an open sense.

We DONT need or want gates in prophercies. Prophercies got it spot on the first time. Gates would kill that.

The only place you really need to restrict running is from north shiverpeaks to southern. But realistically, how does it hurt anyone?

I got my necro (2nd char) run from north to south to get max armor. Not to cheat, but to purely get max armor to help me do the rest of the campaign.

I take chars from LA to Kam to get max armor too. Is that cheating? No, and its basically the same princible.

Runners do no harm, its their choice if people want to miss out chunks of the map. I just laugh at lvl10s in the desert and the fire aisle, who think their clever. No one will PUG with them. And I would charge them the pleasure at such a stupidly low level.

/not signed

Possibly one of the dumbest ideas to date to corral Prophecies like Factions and Nightfall have done.

They should just have one path that is as wide as as an aggro circle that you have to follow, with little arrows for the direction you must go. /end sarcasm

Ever thought of it like this say you got 5 characters at thunderheadkeep all played the storyline would you take another character trough the storyline just to get to , lets say, droks?

hi , im a 12 year old and im no hassle to anyone whos playing the actual game, im rly in the idee for running its a cool way to get around and im hoping to make a phew runners myself! its a fun thing to do and ure either too stuk up ure self in ure trying to get ureself famous on ure "big" idee that u forgot people actually PAYED to buy the game(from where im from ive payed totel of 200 dolars on the game and not letting one guy just ruin it by trying to negate running.

/NOT SIGNED!