Is the sword a bit weak in PvE?

Risa

Risa

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

The Nights Watch [Crow]

Mo/

In PvE, I love going axe. The unconditional DW is great. However, a sword is dependant on bleeding to get that DW. The problem here is...

Not all enemies bleed.

One could argue that DW is not necessary in PvE, but if you aren't using Crip/Sever-Gash, is it worth using a sword just to use...Galrath, Sun & Moon, and so on? I would like to hear your input on this, as it is unclear to me how the sword can compare to the axe or hammer in PvE.

sn0w1337

sn0w1337

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Donkey Pops

W/Mo

Why do you need to bleed when you can keep a constant chain going with Dragon Slash?

Div

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

Sure the DW is more conditional, but the fact that it adds additional pressure/degen with bleeding makes sword an awesome choice too. Plus, hundred blades+fiery dragon sword = ownage

I'd actually say hammers suck more, since the warrior isn't as able to soak up damage anymore.

Stormlord Alex

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

Untill they nerf Dragon Slash (and, subsequently, the ability to chain +42 sword hits) I shouldn't think that swords are weak in PvE. Besides, in areas with stuff that don't bleed, you can switch to an axe

farmpig

farmpig

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2006

its up to every i taste .. I love both swords and axes
both have their str and weaknesses

Kowlier

Kowlier

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2006

belgium

the bretheren of chaos [Dark]

W/

ive always been a sword guy, coz swords look so cool
but damage is very good i think, in comparison with axe, that has larger crits, but lower overal damage becoz of the 6-26.

pooface_po

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

canada

N/W

The sword is not weak at all. You should use it whenever you know the enemies can bleed. The only purpose for bleeding is to trigger gash, degen doesn't matter. I recommend using an axe in tyria, and a sword in elona [I don't have factions ]. more ppl can bleed in Elona,especially at further stages in the game

blue.rellik

blue.rellik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Melbourne, Australia

None

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by sn0w1337
Why do you need to bleed when you can keep a constant chain going with Dragon Slash? Because I love to keep someone on the ground with knockdown chains!

samcobra

samcobra

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

USA

Mo/Me

hammers are amazing. They suffer from similar problems in pve as swords as not all enemies can be KDed, which is the requirement for a hammer Deep Wound. However, a hammer by itself is the highest dps of any weapon. also, as a warrior, you don't have to soak damage if you eliminate the source. That's what you should be focusing on, not beinig an useless slab of retardedness.

overall though, axe is the most versatile weapon if used in pve. however, i'd advise you learn to use all 3 weapon types and keep them all for specific situations where they might be more beneficial.

Risa

Risa

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

The Nights Watch [Crow]

Mo/

I appreciate the replies, but the question I really want answered was if the sword was as efficient in PvE as the axe or hammer. My current opinion is that it tends to be less efficient 'in general' than the axe, because the axe CAN cause a deep wound unconditionally, while the sword takes an additional skill to cause that deep wound, and occasionally, can't cause a deep wound, due to foes without blood.

An alternative question...

Can D-Slash, Galrath, Silverwing, Standing, & Sun & Moon compete with an axe or hammer, which can more easily cause a deep wound. (Additionaly, causing more damage with fewer skils)

Also, my underlining of "Not all enemies bleed" seems to have caused people to believe my "sword-hate" as one might say, is because of the -3 degen I'm missing. This isn't the case, the only reason I involved bleeding is because it's necessary to cause a deep wound with a sword...

clawofcrimson

clawofcrimson

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Crimson Claw

W/

If the bleeding is really a problem you could go:

[card]enraging charge[/card][card]flail[/card][card]sun and moon slash[/card][card]galrath slash[/card][card]dragon slash[/card][card]"find their weakness!"[/card][card]"go for the eyes!"[/card][card]signet of return[/card]
16 swords
10 command
9 strength
( you can consider the shouts to be attack skills and add more self defense if you like... 'GFTE' will give you roughly 80% chance to critical ..increasing damage by a significant amount and FtW can be considered as a 'dismember' skill.)



@Samcobra... actually the scythe would be highest Dps (barring skills)


Quote:
These numbers were determined (auto attacking) with:
~16 mastery
~20% criticals (which is pretty accurate at 16 against same level enemies)
~+35% perfect damage mods
~33% IAS (since the time of attack speeds are .17 percent difference the spear is calculated at 30.17 ias in the guru calculator under sword...)
~Barring skills and the bonus from 'strength', and the 'swathe effect' of the scythe.

scythe dps = 41.80
hammer dps = 41.66
spear DPS = 40.14
axe dps = 37.45
sword dps = 36.59



you can do the math yourself... (again, this is barring skills) here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/calculators/guru_speed.php

pingu666

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

guildhall

[DETH]

axe has cyclone axe and tripple chop

so probably

axe > sword > hammer for general pve

Yanman.be

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

A/

Crude Swing mantra of resolve imo

Age

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

I wouldn't say they are weak in pve as ther are lots of fleshies in Tyria even before DS there was still good ole Final and you got that in LA a skill deserved to be an elite.You put sever,gash and final or dragon it will take out a fleshy in no time and there some good skills for non fleshies.

Brian the Gladiator

Brian the Gladiator

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Michigan, USA

Us Are Not [leet]

E/

Good point age. Final thrust is what puts sword over the edge for me.

B Ephekt

B Ephekt

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Team Crystalline [TC]

Mo/

[skill]echo[/skill][skill]power attack[/skill]

Imo

blue.rellik

blue.rellik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Melbourne, Australia

None

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by B Ephekt
[skill]echo[/skill][skill]power attack[/skill]

Imo An arcane echo would be good here

Captain Arne Is PRO

Captain Arne Is PRO

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowlier
ive always been a sword guy, coz swords look so cool
but damage is very good i think, in comparison with axe, that has larger crits, but lower overal damage becoz of the 6-26.

Warrior-at-heart.

Ishtar Serket

Ishtar Serket

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2007

Gods and Legends (GODS)

I usually run sword builds in PvE. I don't seen any problems with them when there's enemies immune to bleeding. I usually just swap out different skills if thats the case. Otherwise Barbarous Slice and Gash work out just fine. In PvE its not like most enemies last long anyways, most of the time by the time enemies are dead before Deep Wound is applied in sword builds or its applied just before they die.

zknifeh

zknifeh

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kamadan

Acolites of Anguish [aOa]

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue.rellik
An arcane echo would be good here arcane echo only copies a spell
echo copies any skill

to get back on topic... swords are good and i think they can compete with hammers and axes especially if u use d-slash, galrath, silverwing+IAS and a double adrenaline hilt
but i still think that having the enemy on their back is the best thing ever especially if ur using the aoe kd

Francis Demeules

Francis Demeules

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada, Qc

[Holy]

Me/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Risa
In PvE, I love going axe. The unconditional DW is great. However, a sword is dependant on bleeding to get that DW. The problem here is...

Not all enemies bleed.

One could argue that DW is not necessary in PvE, but if you aren't using Crip/Sever-Gash, is it worth using a sword just to use...Galrath, Sun & Moon, and so on? I would like to hear your input on this, as it is unclear to me how the sword can compare to the axe or hammer in PvE. Dont forget sword has some skills in Tactic attribute such as [skill]Riposte[/skill], [skill]Deadly Riposte[/skill].

Thomas.knbk

Thomas.knbk

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowlier
ive always been a sword guy, coz swords look so cool
but damage is very good i think, in comparison with axe, that has larger crits, but lower overal damage becoz of the 6-26. Actually, the overall damage without counting in crits is only slightly higher for swords. And I mean really slightly. If you do count in the crits, the damage is higher for a sword at weapon mastry 10 and lower, and higher for an axe at 11 and higher.
Not that it matters though. It's the skills that make or break the weapon.
Myself, I've been a fan of Backbreaker in PvE lately for Vanquishing, because it takes one monster out of the game for 4 seconds, which is often long enough to kill something. Situations like two Grawl Ulydotes standing next to each other can be done this way.

ArKaiN

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

Lotus Branca[Lbr]

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by zknifeh
arcane echo only copies a spell
echo copies any skill OT: Arcane Echo copies Echo. Then you Echo whatever you want twice. Its called Echo-chaining.

back to topic: I don't understand why people love KD in HM so much. Takes a foe out of the battle? Hell, pacifism does that for 8 seconds at prot 0.

AlienFromBeyond

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Heros of Titans Realm [HotR]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArKaiN
OT: Arcane Echo copies Echo. Then you Echo whatever you want twice. Its called Echo-chaining.

back to topic: I don't understand why people love KD in HM so much. Takes a foe out of the battle? Hell, pacifism does that for 8 seconds at prot 0. Yeah, but then you can't hurt it either, and it's hard to control heroes especially with AoE effects.

And no, the sword isn't weak at all in PvE. IMO, it is stronger than Axe, and comparing to Hammer is hard because it has a lot of KD focus over damage. Remember that +damage from attack skills is after armor, and a Dragon Slash build can be throwing out +42 attacks every other swing or so. The single target DPS is way better than Elementalists, especially once you get Flail online.

Plus, the Axe is the symbol of the W/Mo .

Teh [prefession]-zorz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

wisconsin

Spiders Lair Kurz [SpL]

W/A

Riposite ftw!

Marverick

Marverick

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

R/

Dragon Slash -> Sum & Moon Slash under FGJ, Enduring Harmony, and FLail does some of the best single target DPS, and in PvE there's no blocking or blind or crap to stop you. Never liked axes in PvE and never will; Triple Chop/Cyclone Axe is just a wannabe Derv.

I thought FDS was the symbol of W/Mo? Or did they change their style?

Quote:
back to topic: I don't understand why people love KD in HM so much. Takes a foe out of the battle? Hell, pacifism does that for 8 seconds at prot 0 It's the only thing heroes do properly they seem to enjoy putting anti-melee hexes on casters.

lightblade

lightblade

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

The Etereal Guard

Me/Mo

Sword just don't do AoE. Sure you can use Hundred Blade..but that thing's radius just too small to have much effect.