Ascalon Improvements pre for the level 20s

I see your point and I understand you obviously want lvl20 content in pre-searing, but I just dont see a need or reason for it.

I know I keep saying the same thing, but it is a dedicated training zone (unlike the islands in factions and nightfall which you can return to) and like all training zones it has to remain low-level content.

The reason being that once you reach a certain level of experience, you are meant to move on and learn everything else from the post-ascalon and onwards.

You say that newbie players need a way to learn what hard mode is, in pre-searing! why when they wont actually be able to play it until after lvl20 and completing the campaign? that could be days, weeks or months away!

What about newbie players in factions and nightfall who start on the newbie islands? They dont get experience of hard mode either until lvl20 and completion of the campaign.

Are you suggesting we should give them access to hard mode too before their ready?

All new players are in exactly the same situation, whether it be tyria, factions or nightfall. No newbie players will or should experience Hard Mode until they reach lvl20 and finish the campaign.

If they added a hard mode to pre-searing which under lvl20s could play, then it would be unfair on the newbie islands in factions and nightfall. But if they gave access to hard mode on those islands before lvl20, it would screw up the entire system.

I understand that we have lvl20s running around pre-searing, in low level armor with non-max weapons and very little to do.

I also appreciate that some people really like pre-searing and dont like to leave. But they have to understand that it is what it is. And its a training zone!

If you choose to stay there, you have to make do with low level content. You cant ask that Anet make a radical change to an entire section like that, just because you dont want to move on from that location.

It would also confuse newbie players.

When I first started playing the game years ago, I didnt realise pre-searing was just a starting zone. I thought it was the actual game... as do alot of newbies I expect.

I didnt realise you had to level up as much as you could and then speak to an NPC and actually start the game elsewhere.

If you see a huge number of lvl20s running around, and your only at lvl0-8, you can get confused. I can imagine alot of new players assuming pre-searing was the actual game itselfs and was where you spent your entire time.

We have to distinguise pre-searing as a training zone, so that newbie players realise they have to move on at some point. Otherwise no one would ever leave that zone.

And again, training people in hard mode at such a low level isnt required! Do you not agree that by the time you finished a campaign, you should have achieved enough experience and knowledge to get a fair idea of how hard mode would work?

The name alone suggests its harder, which should suggest buffed creatures!

But why do lvl0-8s need to know or be intimidated by hard mode at such a low level?

You learn to understand normal mode from playing the entire campaign, and then you have experience to compare to hard mode.

You cant expect a lvl0-12 player to have enough experience of normal mode in pre-searing, to then play hard mode and be able to think "hm.... I can tell the fundimental differences".

All they will think is "sweet jesus, that was harder... but why?"

They wont have enough experience after just 3 hours to understand about elite skills, buffed monk abilities, powerfull nuking and alike.

It would be a brain overload and too much to understand for a newbie player! It might even scare alot of players away.

We do need hard mode explained to newbies though...

I do however agree that we need some education on the difference between hard mode and normal mode. But not by chaning the icon and having full access.

We need a system where you speak to an NPC in training, and he puts you up against a normal mode creature and then makes you fight the hard mode version. Chances are you will die against the hard mode version, but that would be the point...

...the NPC would then explain the differences, and how you unlock hard mode. But make a point to explain that it is only for experienced players.

But to give people full-on access to hard mode in pre-searing is just foolish. Its like giving a child a match and expecting them to understand the dangers and not just enjoy the flame.

You make some fair points but they are all aimed at the content being for newbie players. HM in pre wouldnt be for a straight out new player, it like all things HM would be for a relativly experienced person (as in someone who has completed the campaign) HM is aimed to make the game more challenging, increase rewards and to give the game longer life. Every area of the game has HM access. Originally you couldnt take Post characters back due to the time difference,. However all the games have different time spans, its less of a big deal, although Pre-Searing is still unique in that it cant be returned to. Despite this it still could do with some HM features for remade/new characters. Im not talking about adding a massive amount of things, Either just revamp the areas in the same way normal HM areas are and add an Ascalon Battle Cry(which doesnt take much in the way of work) or add a High Tier Elite style area.

Shing Jea and Istan are also both training areas, yet both have HM content, and they have over lvl 15 content -> lvl 20 content in the latter part of the isle. Yet Pre-Searing doesnt have any real content for anyone Over lvl 8 except Charr hunting and Death leveling. Anet has been increasly promoting Presearing activity, with the addition of the title, adding Charr bags and ident kits etc. And yet despite this they not added any post lvl 8 things to do other than the over mentioned things. If a Hm wasnt added then perhaps the next best things would be to add some npcs north of the wall with some repeatable quests, so that LDoA is less time>skill, (although to some extent it still will be but its wont be nearly as bad as it is now and it would promote joining a party in pre-searing)

LOL i remeber in my early days when i didnt know about PUGs and so i ended up getting all the way up to Nolani Academy mission on my own before i discovered how to add people/hench to a party (although im sure this is better explained now, i must have missed the Quest with Alesia and the Res sig Quest in Pre)

There should really be an explaination of HM in all the training areas of the game, even if its brief. Such as ur thought about showing u the difference between a NM creature and a HM creature.

At least turning Piken Square intoa new outpost with someone in the door that let only level 10 or more in. With a merchant and a collector exchanging 100 char hides for level 10 armor pieces: 50, 40, and 30 armor.

And another one exchanging 250 for level 15 armor: 65, 55 and 45.

I absolutely agree that we need some education about hard mode in the games. And if pre-searing was returnable and part of the same timeline, then I would sign this idea.

But I dont agree because it is set in the past and its unreturnable with your char. The main reason being that players have high-end content, located in the main game.

I cant get passed the fact that pre-searing is a training zone.

As for adding char bags and other new content to pre-searing, those are a given because alot of people farm there. Those are a necessity which should have always been there.

I also accept that maybe having some higher end content in pre-searing would be good, because Anet has promoted the idea of being lvl20 in that zone.

But I dont think we need HM content, maybe just high end normal mode content. But nothing excessive which would detract from newbies leaving that zone.

We still need that distinction of it being a training zone, otherwise newbie players might never leave without realising. But the problem would then be having max armor and weapons in pre-searing.

You shouldnt get max armor and weapons until atleast lions arch, where you can travel to factions to get it. (Idealy you shouldnt get max gear until the desert)

With access to max gear and weapons in pre-searing, we will have newbie players or low level players leaving pre-searing with max gear (if they are run to those locations), and entering post-ascalon with an advantage over other players.

You shouldnt be able to get max gear at the very start of a game. And pre-searing is the very, very, very start!!

I believe you guys are over-working a solution, and also trying to defend your personal ideas of what Pre should be.

1. Who cares (You? Why?) if someone wants to be level 20 in Pre. The worlds are instanced, and nobody is going to kill you or grief you.

2. Legendary "Defender" of Ascalon - To me, that title sounds like you fought off a hoarde of nasty creatures hundreds of times. Not the opposite of "died 3,766 times to 12 charr".

3. All it needs as a solution is VERY SIMPLE. Add 2 bosses that are level 18 in the northlands. Job done. People who want 20 now can get it without deathleveling IF THEY WANT TO. Doesnt hurt anyone or change anything does it? Unless youre so proud of your title achieved by afking you dont want anyone else to get it.

Spoken truly Merciless The fact that ANet added a title ruined "going for 20" in pre. Me and Merciless are not the only ones who have felt this way. Going for 20 back in the day was kinda an "underground" thing, as there were people who did it not for any reward, but did it to prove it could be done. Then ANet added that title and suddenly many new people flooded in to attempt this. However the only reason they would now is because a reward was added. How many times when I was death leveling did I have people tell me I had no life, etc. Now it is an accepted thing. If ANet decided to take away the title, how many people would continue to death level to 20?

isnt the op basically wanting what post-ascalon offers? just leave pre and go to post.

i still dont get why people would limit their characters to what pre has to offer when theres just so much more in post, especially after hitting lvl20 in pre.

I think players prefer the looks of pre to the nuclear wasteland of post.I would rather they expand on pre and go to post after the Noloni Academy mission and would like to see the city of Rin.

GW:EN is adding more of that lush, green, farmland look though. So they can play that to get that look.

So what? When Factions came out and titles were added I had no way of going back for Defender of Ascalon with my very first character. I had to destroy that character to start it over because GW did not give a rat's whether or not they provided equal opportunity to established players. I now have 13 character slots (two are mules because of the still inadequate storage system) I have 10 characters and had to destroy my first one so he could go back fo Defender title. There were so many screwings in the implementation of Factions that I am just now getting to where I am only angry about it over a year later.

Adding something in that will allow people seeking the title to get it in a reasonable manner and amount of time is not inappropriate. The current 396 nights of death leveling while you sleep after you make 16th level is absurd.


Edit: As for the HM argument, what Pre-Searing needs is explanation tablets like you have in Shing Jea. An NPC that pits you against a HM monster only to eliminate any chance at Survivor title is wrong - especially since titles are Never explained.

I agree Pre-Searing is for training and those who do not wish to leave because they do not want to play the game should not be overly concerned if they do not get special consideration. The question ANet should ask is why is Pre-Searing preferable to X number of people over Post. Further, when ANet created the Defender title the ended the Pre is a dedicated training zone. That title by nature destroys the Pre is only a training zone because it requires one to go to 20th level in Pre. Because in order to get the title I had to destroy a character that had already made it to having only two Titans quests left and remake him, I completely disagree that special considerations should not be made.

What would be more appropriate is a special hard mode for Pre. One where the monsters only get a +10 boost in level, and only available to those who have an account that has beaten the game. Once a character of that account reaches 10th level they get the option to go to Pre-Searing Hard Mode, and then they can work on Defender Title, but cannot party with someone in normal mode or go back to normal mode. (Warning displayed: If you choose Hard Mode you will remain in Hard Mode until you leave for the next stage of the game.)

Have you considered that adding lvl20 content to pre-searing might/would be deprimental to the entire prophercies compaign.

We need the majority of players to leave pre-searing at a set point, because otherwise most players would just hang around there and do all the lvl20 content and never move on.

Its bad enough we have players being spread accross 3 games and soon an expansion. By adding lvl20 content to pre-searing your basically adding another place to keep them away from the main content.

As i've said before, we need to incourage most people to leave pre-searing because otherwise player numbers will fall in that campaign. You will have newbiew players assuming that is the main game and they will never leave.

There has to be a clear distinction between pre-searing being a low level, training zone and making it clear you are meant to leave to access higher level content.

Its all well and good having lvl20 content in factions and nightfall on the training islands, because you can leave and return there as you please.

You can very easily leave thos training islands and take part in the rest of the game.

But if we incouraged people to stay in pre-searing they cant just leave, and they wouldnt because they know that. We would end up with players rolling new chars and never leaving that zone.

Do you not think that would have a negative effect on player numbers?

I think what it really comes down to is Anet has a choice, they either need to revamp Presearing with some more content (see previously mentioned ideas) or Change the Legendary defender of Ascalon title so that you gain it some other way in Post searing (like completing the Titan quests) which i have also mentioned in the past. As it stands everthing is out of whack, with them promoting lvl 20s in Pre and yet not giving a means to reach lvl 20 without taking advantage of the game mechanics to death level and making titles mutualy exclusive. I dont mind which way they go, as long as they go one way or the other and dont remain in limbo!

I personally think they should just remove LDOA, because that is what caused all this trouble anyway.

Since they wont do that, I would have to agree they should add a better way to level up to 20 in pre-searing instead of stupid death-leveling because it seems too much like a hack.

The only idea I would ever accept personally, is if they added higher level creatures into the northern areas of pre-searing. At a max of lvl15, because you can level up to 20 on those (I think).

I dont agree with max armor, max weapons or hard mode in pre-searing though.

But if people really want LDOA they should alteast gives creatures which will allow them to level up when killed.

Because you wouldnt have max armor or weapons (unless have bonus pack), then most newbie players wouldnt dare challenge a creature far stronger then themselves.

It wouldnt then only apeal to more crazey players who wanted to get their ass'es kicked alot.

But I think that is the only high end content they should add. Just some higher level creatures to kill, but NO max armor or max weapons.

As for hard mode, just keep that for pre-ascalon!

You get all the education you need for hard mode, from playing the actual campaign. Tf you cant handle hard mode after completing an entire campaign I'd be worried about you.

Yes i agree with No max armour and no max weapons (ignoring the Bonus weapons). Now if only we only we could get Anet to do somethign about it

Well.. the 0Xp from lower level enemies was for that, to prvent players from staying in PreSearing.

But now is different. Now OLDER players, that already have finished the campaigns and so, are the ones that keep one character or more in PreSearing.

I have 10 characters, one with each profession, and then, one PvP slot and one PreSearing Slot.

I use the presearing slot to hep my guild frinds in PreSearing and to socialize and such in there.

What could be done is to make a level 20 copy of PreSearing. Players coming back would not contact with new players. Ascalon would be an outpost at level 20 and with party size of 4, with no henchmen, allowing Hard Mode and such, and level of enemies would be increased by 18, so level 0 monsters would be at 18 and Charr Bosses would be at level 28.

And, of course, drops would be different, without Char Bags oir Charr Kits, and with loot scaling.

/not signed

Rather have Anet working on other stuff/add things to post-searing.

How would that work with continuety though (hope spelt that right)?

A level20 version of Pre-Searing is basically Pre-Ascalon in hard mode. How could you justify or have it make sense, to travel back in time to pre-searing and have it all be high end content?

I think the solution is what was mentioned.

Just add creatures up to lvl15 in the northern region of the game and maybe add one more location in the same place for LDOA to hang out.

That way dedicated players can level up on those creatures, and lvl20 LDOAs can hang out with other lvl20 players and can have avoid newbies if they want.

No max armor, no max weapons, no hard mode.

Just one new location for lvl20s to chill out in, and have the instances surrounding it be creatures up to atleast lvl15.

It would be a no-go area for anyone who didnt want to level up, because their low armor would make it too hard to do.

But we would an NPC to explain how to get there, and why it exists. Make up some story-arc! So they understand that you can level up to 20 if you want, but that is doesnt effect the storyline.

If anet didn't even add a HM to presearing, chances are they won't add any new missions or huge quests to it either...

I agree.

On another note, this is just like the survivor title discussion in terms of LDoA. I don't have a LDoA, but I do have 2 lvl 3 survivors, both of whom I got to that level before titles were implemented.
The title destroys the fun of it, the challenge. Like with LDoA, it was unique to attempt something most people thought was a waste of time, and succeed at it. I don't understand why people want to make this stuff easier. Go out and do it the hard way, it gives ya character!

Perhaps I'm just being cynical here...but I laugh a little whenever I read someone talking about the presearing "community."

I spend a decent amount of time in pre, but I rarely talk to anyone...selling dye is usually the only occasion for which I hang around in town. The largest reason for this is that presearing is undeniably the cesspool of GW society. Ascalon City (at least on the American side) is full of foul-mouthed children who stand around doing little besides spouting racial/homophobic slurs and uninformed innuendos. Local chat ftl.

I pity anyone who is new to the game nowadays. If my first glimpse of Guild Wars were the Ascalon of today, I think I would uninstall almost immediately.

I know but I am talking about seeing what post looked like before the searing.This would include expanding on pre to what is in post and that includes all the towns and outposts .This would be from The Pockmark Flats to The Ascalon Foothills.They could even up the lvls of Charr and why.

There is only 1 or 2 towns I would like to see in post and that is Rin close to the Noloni Academy mission and Drascir .

The reason for Rin my Monk was born there.

Then they should never have set the Defender of Ascalon title so that it is such a pain in the butt to get to level 20 in a Training Zone. I have recommended a Pre-HM that once entered would not be something one could return a character from. That would add 10 levels to all monsters just so those working on DoA title would be able to do so in an enjoyable and adventuring manner instead of the idiotic death leveling junk that exists now.

If Pre had been set up with stones like Shing Jea monastery which indicate both rules and the nature of Pre, this would not be an issue. People do not go to Post because they find the nature of Post to be "Un-Fun." Perhaps instead of coercing people into leaving Pre, one should find out what can be done to make going to Post worthwhile for those who don't want to.

I find that discussion between players, and the need for skills for builds, and the interest in items of various skins, makes this a spurious argument. The question again is, why do so many people find being in Pre preferrable to to Post? What have the game designers done that made them scrap their characters and start over with no intention of ever leaving Pre? (And I remember watching it start with people who came back to Pre because "Post sucked".) Some of those things have been changed. But one thing that has never changed is the lack of proper introduction in the Pre-Searing area. While Factions and Nightfall have excellent explanations that lead a player further on, there is nothing - not even an initional dialogue briefing from Tydus that says what your mission objectives are in Pre. Nor does the published material/books give any help in this. I personally take new players around and pin the cities, help them collect their armor, and explain different approaches to using Pre on their way to the game experience in Post. ANet has done nothing to render my services unneeded in the 21 months that I have had the game.

Again this is the fault of ANet for improperly providing instruction on the nature of the game and how to play it. It is not our fault. Nor should we be further penalized because of their lack of foresight to begin with. We now have a title to achieve in Pre. I destroyed my very first character just so I could go back and get the title. Now I have another year or so of death leveling spiders and striders so I can get it because there is no reasonable content for doing so.

This can be done with a sign on a Wisdom Tablet that gives 50 experience and 10 gold between where you are initiated and the first Town Crier.

And a person who has been playing for 2 years or so cannot easily or ever return to Pre to seek the Defender title without destroying 2 years of invested effort in developing that character. We did not create this problem, ANet did. I refuse to accept your excuses that we should have to suffer for their lack of foresight and tendency to segregate people to castes of haves and have nots.

We didnt encourage people to stay in Pre-Searing, ANet decisions and product discouraged them from wanting to enter Post. This is a completely different issue.

Not in game, because those playing in Pre are still in game. So, no it does not have a negative impact on total player participation. It does affect distribution of participation, if and only if the Pre-Searing region remains something that sucks less in overall "suckiness factor" than Post.

I personally do not think Post sucks, so much as that ANet has made many decisions which negatively affected players (some of which have been corrected) and that players in Post are generally: immature, crass, leachy, rude, selfish, overly aggressive, scamming, etc. and in Pre one needs only deal with one such jerk at a time. In Pre I do not find these behaviors as much because new players are more likely to listen to those who have some experience, and be polite so they may gain that experience. And understand, ANet has made a very decent game overall, but it has many areas where it could still be improved.

Also you can just buy additional character slots

If only particular people would realise that outside the US mst people do not use a credit card *sigh* but oh well


If you've spend a decent amount of time in pre then you should try to broaden your horison a bit.
If you want to see a glimpse of what is being ment with the "Presearing Community" then I suggest you visit www.presearing.com asap
I highly doubt Anet would choose this site to be an officially listed site on guildwars.com if it was filled with lvl 1 cybering eles and black dye scammers

Well...I've been trying out the deathlevelling lately...

To level up from 15 to 16 will need around 200 solo charr boss runs. You'll get roughly +0.5% for each solo run you'll do.
To level up from 16 to 17 will need around 10 to 20 deathlevel sessions. You'll get around +5% to +10% for each deathlevel session you'll do.

For seasoned players at level 15 it could take an estimated 15 minutes to farm all the bosses which would cost a total of 200*15=3000 minutes to level up.
For seasoned players at level 16 it could take an estimated 45 minutes (I'm being generous here) to set up 1 deathlevel. Under worst case scenario you'd need to do this 20 times costing you a total of 20*45=900 minutes.

To level from 14 to 15 --> 1500 minutes (100 solo runs)
To level from 15 to 16 --> 3000 minutes
To level from 16 to 17 --> 900 minutes

I came to the conclusion that deathlevelling is actually a lot easier then playing through the game, levelling up, in a normal way

What makes deathlevelling so tedious is the risk of getting disconnects and the amount of planning you need to do (aswell have having a 300W electrical device running for 20*9=180 hours just to level from 16 to 17) so I realy don't see whats so hard about deathlevelling.
Now I've tried it out for myself and with this new knowledge I now see that deathlevelling is even more retarded then I previously thought and a normal way to reach level 20 in pre to me is now even more desirable!


Now on to the requirement of pre searing hardmode.
Obviously having a minimum requirement of level 20 defeats the purpose of having an alternative way to deathlevel so it should be a lower level.
Some people want to see this minimum requirement set at level 10 or so which (when teamed up by a powerleveller, no matter if you pay him or not) would cheapen this title as you'd get massive amounts of xp from your powerleveller killing all the foes fro you. remember that without pre HM going from 14 to 16 alone takes 4.5k minutes of defending ascalon against the charr invasion.
Levelling from 13 to 14 takes significantly less time then levelling from 14 to 15 as you'll still get some xp from the normal charr.

I'm seeking a way to have the LDoA title obtainable in an alternative way besides the much too easy deathlevelling where the only hard part is to find yourself a quality internet provider while not making it even more easy to obtain this title by means of for example power levelling.

Powerlevelling is a serious issue in pre, many people ask for a power level in pre as it is now!
Having powerlevel seekers completely denied from gaining xp from higher level charr is nessesary to prevent the LDoA title to be cheapened.

This is why imo the minimum level requirement for presearing HM should be set no lower then level 15 (as it might be easier to deathlevekl your way to lvl 16 then to do it the honorable old fashioned way) but no higher then level 16 (any higher defeats the purpose of having an alternative way to deathlevel).


Having a hardmode this way would make the title obtainable also to people who aren't blessed with a stable high-quality internet connection.
Realy, are there any LDoA title holders who would mind having the less fortunate presearing community members amongst us to be able to put the same amount of efford into getting this title?
It doesn't have to be just deathlevelling you know


Right now deathlevelling is highly impractical, too easy and doesn't even mean you're a legendary defender.
This should change!

Fitz - from Latin Filius, meaning son, became bastardized to fitz by Irish monks when designating an illigitimate child. Rinley is taken from Rin, a location in the Kingdom of Ascalon, and Ley, a term for valley. Fitz's mother was a maid, who found herself in a family way thru the Baron of Rin Valley, Baron Rinley. Not wishing to deal with the scandal, the Baron had her quietly put away in a monastery dedicated to Batlhazar. There Fitz grew up training as both a warrior and a monk. When the day came for him to be received into the orders, and having accomplished the highest honors of his class, he knelt before his father to take his oath of office. At no point did his father, the Baron, ever acknowledge his successful son, or even smile. Fitz who had trained hard, earned his way into the best units, fought for the honor of his god and country, could not get recognition from the only place he cared to find it - his own father. Driven to excell for this recognition and being snubbed on the most important day of his young career and life, he crashed. He went on a binge and in the deepest night screamed a curse for all of Rin to burn. The very next day, it did. From that time on, driven by both guilt and the need to find acceptance in himself he has Defended Ascalon with pure and unquestioning zeal.

This is my first character. At what point, having already gone to Post before the title was created, did he have the option to attain the title that fits his background, story, and the character. The only option we are given is to destroy all of what we created and start over.

I don't know about easy. I don't find anything that is utterly boring, repetitive, droll, tedious, and monotonous to be easy. Nor do I find it interesting or fun. However, since I have no choice if the character is going to have the title that is appropriate to who he is and what he is about, then I must go through this crap.

It's your fault. Do you want to be able to get lvl3 survivor on your character too? I haven't done LDoA yet, but again, it's like survivor, which I have on my monk.

It's not about the title...it's about an accomplishment, something that is difficult and time consuming. I had 2 mil exp under my belt before one death. And then titles came out. I worked so hard to get that title. Why should someone who didn't have the same creative spark and determination be rewarded? Just because they want it?
And what is with the lore?

No it is not my fault, and the Survivor Track line does not fit with this character. It will be appropriate to his son.

If it is not about the title then take the words out of it. Merely call them Accomplishment 1, Accomplishment 2, and Accomplishment 3. After all there is no meaning to it, only some acquired numbers through tedium. They certainly don't need any descriptive attributes if they are only meant to waste time.

Why should you deny someone something simply because your effort to get it was thwarted? If I had been in charge, I would have applied the titles retroactively to those who had made it to a certain stage before they died, or prorated it. If you have one death on your character and enough xp to exceed the first title level, I would have allowed that (but not further).
I did not state, they should be handed out just because people want them, but that they were applied without consideration of those who already had existing characters which they had fully developed. And no I do not consider wracking up a skill collection and attribute points to be character development. That is bean-counting analytical hog-wash that can be done by any mild intellect with no imagination.

That is character development. That is role playing. That is what an RPG is about. It is establishing a persona for your character that you explore by finding the decisions they would make that you would not, and understanding the reasons why they would make those decisions. It is getting to know each and every character you have as a different individual and allowing them to make the decisions based on what their nature is. An example of this is The Lord of the Rings, where Tolkien had absolutely no idea what was going to happen after Bree and let the book write itself for several chapters. But because he knew his characters and their environment he was able to express them. That 'Lore" is the foundation of my first character. It is why LDoA is appropriate to his character and nature. And no, their lack of consideration for existing characters is not my fault.