Do HSR stack?
I Will Heal You Ally
I got a wand+focus with 2 HSR 20%. Do these two stack so you get 40% or is it still 20%?
Sophitia Leafblade
u get two chances of 20% so u have: a 4% chance of 40% HSR and 36% chance of 20% HSR
Soul of the Scythe
^wrong but close
If you have 2 20% HSR or HCT mods, you get:
32% to halve the casting time/halve the recharge time
and a
4% chance to quarter the casting time/quarter the recharge time
If you have 2 20% HSR or HCT mods, you get:
32% to halve the casting time/halve the recharge time
and a
4% chance to quarter the casting time/quarter the recharge time
crunch666
Check this post out.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10040956
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10040956
lennymon
double recharge bonus no longer happens as of quite a while ago. simple answer is, yes they stack.
And yes, even though anyone can post on wiki, this is true... it used to be you could get 2xHRT but not sonce last year sometime.
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Originally Posted by Guildwiki
Skill recharge reduction is capped at 50% from multiple sources, so two 20% HSR simply result in a 36% chance to HSR (if both modifiers kick in, you still only get halved skill recharge so chance to HSR = 32% + 4% = 36%).
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I Will Heal You Ally
ok thx a lot for info
Sophitia Leafblade
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Soul of the Scythe
^wrong but close
If you have 2 20% HSR or HCT mods, you get: 32% to halve the casting time/halve the recharge time and a 4% chance to quarter the casting time/quarter the recharge time |
32+4 = 36, when it should add up to 40 
You get 2 times 20% chances, =40, of them 4% (20% 0f 20%) will overlap = 36% HCT/HSR and 4% QCT/QSR
The update capped it at 50% so 40% speed increase is still possible.
Buzzer
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Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade
lol i think your maths needs improving
32+4 = 36, when it should add up to 40 You get 2 times 20% chances, =40, of them 4% (20% 0f 20%) will overlap = 36% HCT/HSR and 4% QCT/QSR The update capped it at 50% so 40% speed increase is still possible. |
They are independant events so the chance of only one going off is (.2*.8)*2 = 0.32 and the chance of both going off is .2*.2 = 0.04
And as someone else stated, there is a cap at 50% so the bottom line is a 36% chance to halve casting time.
MisterB
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Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade
lol i think your maths needs improving
32+4 = 36, when it should add up to 40 You get 2 times 20% chances, =40, of them 4% (20% 0f 20%) will overlap = 36% HCT/HSR and 4% QCT/QSR The update capped it at 50% so 40% speed increase is still possible. |
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10040956
This post details it fully.
Sophitia Leafblade
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Originally Posted by Buzzer
Take your own advice.
They are independant events so the chance of only one going off is (.2*.8)*2 = 0.32 and the chance of both going off is .2*.2 = 0.04 |
but i cast a skill so i have a 20% chance, it fails or succeeds,
the other mod then triggers, giving me a 20% chance, it too fails or suceeds.
20+20 = 40!
In total u have a 40% chance of 1 or both of them triggering, so take away the 4% chance of them both triggering and u have 36%.
If i have a 20% chance falling over with my left leg, and i have another 20% chance of falling over with my right leg i have a total of 36% chance to falling over with either leg and a 4% chance of falling over with both.
and i have read through the afore mentioned thread and i dont agree with it, i may be wrong but im sure that the calulations are incorrect
Etta
Hey! take it easy, it's on a small amount of % for godsake. God! you guys sounded like those kids in the math club back in my high school day.
Cebe
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Originally Posted by MisterB
This post is incorrect. Please check your work. I know someone else has already linked this, but it bears repeating.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10040956 This post details it fully. |
Sophitia Leafblade
You wanna Start something Etta! *Right here, right now! starts to play* hehe like id ever hurt u were having a nice friendly discussion here.
A= I have 20% chance of a HCT
B= I have 20% chance of a HCT
z:I have A chance of HCT – I have a full 20% chance of HCT
y:Next mod: I have B Chance of HCT – I have another full 20% chance of HCT
x:I have A Union B chance of HCT – I have 40% chance of HCT or QCT total
w:I have A Insection B chance of QCT – I have 4% chance of QCT (the intersection of both Casts triggering)
v: x – w = 36% - I have 36% chance of HCT
were having a nice friendly discussion here.A= I have 20% chance of a HCT
B= I have 20% chance of a HCT
z:I have A chance of HCT – I have a full 20% chance of HCT
y:Next mod: I have B Chance of HCT – I have another full 20% chance of HCT
x:I have A Union B chance of HCT – I have 40% chance of HCT or QCT total
w:I have A Insection B chance of QCT – I have 4% chance of QCT (the intersection of both Casts triggering)
v: x – w = 36% - I have 36% chance of HCT
Buzzer
The mods trigger separately and independently. You can't just add them together. Imagine if the chance to halve recharge was 60% instead of 20% and you'll see my point.
Here's a question: what's the chance of neither mod working? 64% yeah? Which means at least one mod kicks in 36% of the time.
Here's a question: what's the chance of neither mod working? 64% yeah? Which means at least one mod kicks in 36% of the time.
qazwersder
64% chance of you getting no skill recharge boost
32% chance of you getting half skill recharge
4% chance of you getting quarter skill recharge
32% chance of you getting half skill recharge
4% chance of you getting quarter skill recharge
Etta
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Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade
You wanna Start something Etta! *Right here, right now! starts to play* hehe like id ever hurt u
were having a nice friendly discussion here. |
nah! just all this number make my head hurt! 
Sophitia Leafblade
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Originally Posted by Buzzer
The mods trigger separately and independently. You can't just add them together. Imagine if the chance to halve recharge was 60% instead of 20% and you'll see my point.
Here's a question: what's the chance of neither mod working? 64% yeah? Which means at least one mod kicks in 36% of the time. |
If i have 3 Red beans in my left hand and i have 3 red beans in my right hand, then i have 6 red beans.
A - I have 3 beans
b - I have 3 beans
I have A union (and) B - I have 6 beans
MisterB
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Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
What are you on? I don't see any difference between soph's post and the thread you link to.
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Buzzer
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Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade
The chance of both mods not working is 60%, the chance of just 1 mod not working is 36%.
If i have 3 Red beans in my left hand and i have 3 red beans in my right hand, then i have 6 red beans. A - I have 3 beans b - I have 3 beans I have A union (and) B - I have 6 beans |
Forget the union and intersection stuff. I repeat: Imagine if the chance to halve recharge was 60% instead of 20% and you'll see my point.
RotteN
the answer is plain easy, 2 20% HSR bonusses add up to 36% chance of HSR. Weather or not you understand the maths behind this is irrelivant. The OP asked for an answer, and he got the answer, this is a guild wars forum, not a math discussion.
Sophitia Leafblade
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Originally Posted by MisterB
There is a difference, I assure you. Sophita, I have to disagree with you. The two 20% chances do not add to 40%. I think this is your point of confusion. The simple answer is 2 20% mods stack to 36% chance, because of the 50% cap update. Don't make me show my work!
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The working out on the other thread is wrong. As many people point out the 2 events are separate, look at his diagram on the diagram they arnt separate. I have 2 Seperate (keyword here) chances of 20%.
[.......20......].....heres my 20% of HCT....................<-
.................................................. .........................|Here you have 40% chance for HCT, as u can see they are separate
[....16.....[4]]..... heres my other 20% chance of HCT<-
(the inner square on the bottom 20% being the chance both work, the rest of it is the chance that the 1 OR the other will trigger)
Soul of the Scythe
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Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade
lol i think your maths needs improving
32+4 = 36, when it should add up to 40 You get 2 times 20% chances, =40, of them 4% (20% 0f 20%) will overlap = 36% HCT/HSR and 4% QCT/QSR The update capped it at 50% so 40% speed increase is still possible. |
In the link that is provided you can clearly see that the 4% chance to quarter the casting time is an overlap of 4% from each mod.
Ill explain this using a mental visual aid. A Venn Diagram. I'm trusting you all know what that is. Two circles in which a part of each overlap each other. Now, each of these circles represent a 20% HCT mod. The overlapping portion, as we all agree, equals 4% chance to quarter casting time. Now, that leaves 16% chance to HCT in one circle and 16% chance to HCT in the other circle, and 16 + 16 = 32% to HCT.
Combining percentages is not as easy as saying 20+20 = 40. As you said they are 2 seperate events. That like saying yesterday i drank 50% of a full gallon of milk, and today from that same bottle, I drank another 50% and saying the bottle is empty when in reality is 25% full.
Sophitia Leafblade
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Originally Posted by Soul of the Scythe
In the link that is provided you can clearly see that the 4% chance to quarter the casting time is an overlap of 4% from each mod.
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Soul of the Scythe
the overlap is when the both activate... get it?
get it?
Cebe
Edit: ignore me, I'm talking crap!
Sophitia Leafblade
ok here a badly drawn but simple diagram to explain.
The 1st diagram is your 1st HCT mod, u have 20% chance of it triggering
The next one is of the 2nd HCT mod, u have 20% chance of it triggering also, of which u have a 4% chance it will trigger as well as the 1st one. (so for the 2nd one u have 16% that just 1 of them will have triggered)
Then to demonstrate the point theres a 3rd one. This one is also a full 20% chance to trigger, there is an 0.8% chance to trigger with both of the others
so u end up with these chances from the 3 mods:
42% chance for 1/2CT, (Yellow ), 7.2% of 1/4CT, (blue) and 0.8%,(green) chance of 1/8CT, there is in total a 60% chance that atleast one of them will trigger.
Soul of the Scythe
for reference:
20% = .2
80% = .8
4% = .04
64% = .64
68% = .68
32% = .32
.2 * .2 = .04 (<--Chance of them both triggering)
(20% * 20% = 4%)
.8 * .8 = .64 (<--Chance of NEITHER triggering)
(80% * 80% = 64%)
seeing as all precentages have to add up to 100%, we get:
.04 + .64 = .68 and 1 - .68 = .32(<--Chance of one of them triggering)
4% + 64% = 68% 100% - 68% = 32%
So, you have:
64% chance of neither triggering
+32% chance of one triggering
4% chance of both triggering
100%
20% = .2
80% = .8
4% = .04
64% = .64
68% = .68
32% = .32
.2 * .2 = .04 (<--Chance of them both triggering)
(20% * 20% = 4%)
.8 * .8 = .64 (<--Chance of NEITHER triggering)
(80% * 80% = 64%)
seeing as all precentages have to add up to 100%, we get:
.04 + .64 = .68 and 1 - .68 = .32(<--Chance of one of them triggering)
4% + 64% = 68% 100% - 68% = 32%
So, you have:
64% chance of neither triggering
+32% chance of one triggering
4% chance of both triggering
100%
Sophitia Leafblade
Ezekiel Giz Mistopheles says - "hmm i can understand the thinking behind the 80*80 to get 64% but it makes each one inextricably linked to the others but they cant be since they are independent actions. The 1st full 20% is triggered or not triggered without any interference from the 2nd 20%. Your theory works out as the 2nd 20% chance as giving a (32-20) - 12% chance of working + the 4% chance of both working, 12+4 doesnt = 20% chance, by your theory the 2nd 20% gives only 18% chance of working. Hmm i can concur my theory very possibly doesnt work since with 5 times 20% chances u still wont have 100% chance to get HCT or lower, and yet ur theory doesnt add up either. hmm..."
byteme!
Please for the love of god go outside and do something.
lennymon
love your work RotteNFor those interested (and obviously that's the two of you bickering), the math is quite simple though.
you cast a spell with 2 pieces of equipment each giving 20% chance of HRT.
20% chance one HRT mod works and 20% chance the other works. 20+20 does not equal 40 though. Looking at only the results which yield HRT which are 20% + (20% of the 80% which failed the initial 20%=16%) = 36%. Note, this does not take into account those which are double positive (4%) because of the 50% speed boost cap to recharge.
This is why HCT is 32% HCT and 4% quarter cast time though since the 4% for double bonus is part of the 36 so they need to add up to 36%.
Realm of Fiery Doom
Lookie here guys and gals. I'm a 14 year old kiddie and even I can do this.
Chance that a mod will work is .2
Chance that a mod will fail is .8
OK? Got that?
Chance that both mods will work is .2 x .2 = .04, 4%
Yes?
Chance that both mods won't work is .8 x .8 = .64, 64%
Hanging in there?
Chance that one mod works but the other doesn't is 100% - 4% - 64% = 32%
||OR||
Chance that mod A works but the other doesn't is .2 x .8 = .16, 16%,
Chance that mod B works but the other doesn't is .2 x .8 = .16, 16%,
16% + 16% = 32%
It's really that simple. No need to get worked up about it.
Chance that a mod will work is .2
Chance that a mod will fail is .8
OK? Got that?
Chance that both mods will work is .2 x .2 = .04, 4%
Yes?
Chance that both mods won't work is .8 x .8 = .64, 64%
Hanging in there?
Chance that one mod works but the other doesn't is 100% - 4% - 64% = 32%
||OR||
Chance that mod A works but the other doesn't is .2 x .8 = .16, 16%,
Chance that mod B works but the other doesn't is .2 x .8 = .16, 16%,
16% + 16% = 32%
It's really that simple. No need to get worked up about it.
thedork01
thank you fiery doom for being the only one capable of explaining this concept to them.
Soul of the Scythe
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Originally Posted by Realm of Fiery Doom
Lookie here guys and gals. I'm a 14 year old kiddie and even I can do this.
Chance that a mod will work is .2 Chance that a mod will fail is .8 OK? Got that? Chance that both mods will work is .2 x .2 = .04, 4% Yes? Chance that both mods won't work is .8 x .8 = .64, 64% Hanging in there? Chance that one mod works but the other doesn't is 100% - 4% - 64% = 32% ||OR|| Chance that mod A works but the other doesn't is .2 x .8 = .16, 16%, Chance that mod B works but the other doesn't is .2 x .8 = .16, 16%, 16% + 16% = 32% It's really that simple. No need to get worked up about it. |
Sophitia Leafblade
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Originally Posted by Soul of the Scythe
isn't that EXACTLY what I posted? Except minus the condescending remarks. This forum is meant for discussions, no one was insulting or being condescending to anyone, we were discussing this. I was trying to convince Sophitia that he/she was wrong and he/she was trying to do the same to me. And if your so smart to be able to figure this out, you whould have been smart enoguh to read that someone else had already posted that exact same thing.(<--That also goes to thedork1 for not reading first.) If your gonna post in a thread, please have the common courtesy to read the whole thing first and not just jump in thinking you know everything and be so condescending, it's not needed here.
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u convinced me with a little help from Celest.(he reminded me about what if i had 5 20% mods which totally broke my theory) And we kept it civil *cough-unlike some-cough* /standscorrected (yes im big enough to accept when im wrong)
And although it seems weird how it all works out, your method makes sence to me. so 32% is indeed the answer