What is the Best PvE Ele Build?

For Great Justice!

For Great Justice!

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2007

In a Court of Law

Guild Nirvana [GN]

W/D

What really is the best build for PvE Ele?
Ive got a level 20 Fire Ele, not that far in the game tbh, but I want to know, whats the best build possible. Unfortunately I dont have proph so I cant get skills like MoR but I just want to see what ele build is actually the best.

Ozric

Ozric

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Texas

Phoolz Like Us

E/Me

[skill]Flare[/skill][skill]Double Dragon[/skill][skill]Lava Arrows[/skill][skill]Lava Font[/skill][skill]Glyph of Essence[/skill][skill]Burning Speed[/skill][skill]Mending[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

Go get em, Tiger!!

ca_aok

ca_aok

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Xen of Onslaught

E/Me

Just FYI that's the worse build ever, though I assume it's a joke

If you have Nightfall, good old searing flames always works. However, prophecies has essential fire skills (Mark of Rodgort, Meteor Shower, etc), so any fire build you make without it will be lacking slightly. Maybe a Savannah Heat build?

Coloneh

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

there is no "best" anything in GW. EVER. period. dont ask questions like this, your just flamebait.



learning ftw

makosi

makosi

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

"Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff.

Requirement Begins With R [notQ]

Me/

Troll much, Coloneh?

While it's true that there's no 'best' build, this build seems to be an all-round mob killer. It's especially good with a hero or another player with the same or a similar build.

[skill]Searing Flames[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill][skill]Liquid Flame[/skill][skill]Rodgort's Invocation[/skill][skill]Meteor Shower[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Fire Attunement[/skill] + a Res of some sort.

Meteors help to stop monsters running off and Searing Flames is heavy area degen and spike all in one. Its pretty fun to play since it wipes areas out and doesn't take much effort to execute. Ozric's build is omg-godly-imba too.

Edit:

Attributes are 16 Fire Magic, 13 Energy storage.

ArKaiN

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

Lotus Branca[Lbr]

Mo/Me

way to point out the obvious ca_aok.
OP:there's no such thing as a "best build". Quit being lazy and test the ones in other threads.

Coloneh

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

sorry to troll, but i dont see the point of offering people like tis help, when a monkey could randomly click threads and find an ele build.

ca_aok

ca_aok

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Xen of Onslaught

E/Me

Quote:
way to point out the obvious ca_aok. When someone posts a "What is the best build" thread I assume they cannot see the obvious for themselves.

As for makosi's build, Rodgort's Invocation and Meteor Shower are both prophecies-only skills.

XvArchonvX

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by makosi
Troll much, Coloneh?

While it's true that there's no 'best' build, this build seems to be an all-round mob killer. It's especially good with a hero or another player with the same or a similar build.

[skill]Searing Flames[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill][skill]Liquid Flame[/skill][skill]Rodgort's Invocation[/skill][skill]Meteor Shower[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Fire Attunement[/skill] + a Res of some sort.

Meteors help to stop monsters running off and Searing Flames is heavy area degen and spike all in one. Its pretty fun to play since it wipes areas out and doesn't take much effort to execute. Ozric's build is omg-godly-imba too.

Edit:

Attributes are 16 Fire Magic, 13 Energy storage. Why Rodgort's Invocation in a SF bar? It's not a bad skill and works well in a MS bar, but the 3 sec cast time just gets in the way of SF spam. Personally I would suggest Glyph of Sacrifice. It can be used to make a really fast rez for fallen monks mid battle or to toss down a MS really quickly in key moments (such as when you encounter a boss).

fenix

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

Either your basic Searing Flames bar, or this:

Earth Magic: 12+3+1
Energy Storage: 10+1
Healing: Remainder

Sandstorm [E]
Obsidian Flame
Ward Against Melee
Ward Against Foes
Ward Against Elements
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Heal Party
Res Sig

It owns pretty bad paired with 2 SF ele's, and a War, and some monks. The wards basically reduce all pressure to nothing.

taco_salad

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

no where

Lords of the Abyss [LORD]

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozric
[skill]Flare[/skill][skill]Double Dragon[/skill][skill]Lava Arrows[/skill][skill]Lava Font[/skill][skill]Glyph of Essence[/skill][skill]Burning Speed[/skill][skill]Mending[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

Go get em, Tiger!!
LMAO I can't stop laughing!

I would go SF, but the more SFers the better, so add a hero and give him the same build.

Sophitia Leafblade

Sophitia Leafblade

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Dragon Slayer Guild [DSG]

R/

well since i have some time to kill, heres my most prefered Ele builds (theres no such thing as Best ones) They all contain a good self heal and energy maintenance so they can keep on fighting till they cant fight anymore (ie being dead):

Air:
[skill]Invoke Lightning[/skill] [skill]Enervating Charge[/skill] [skill]Lightning Strike[/skill] [skill]Blinding Flash[/skill] [skill]Windborne Speed[/skill] [skill]Glyph of Restoration[/skill] [skill]Glyph of Elemental Power[/skill] [skill]Air Attunement[/skill]

This build does great damage, causes some good conditions and has a good ally speed boost good to cast on Warriors running after Kiters

Earth:
[skill]Elemental Attunement[/skill] [skill]Earth Attunement[/skill] [skill]Crystal Wave[/skill] [skill]Teinai's Crystals[/skill] [skill]Aftershock[/skill] [skill]Whirlwind[/skill][skill]Glyph of Restoration[/skill] [skill]Armor of Earth[/skill]

This build does amazing short range AoE damage most of which is Armor ignoring

Water:
[skill]Elemental Attunement[/skill] [skill]Water Attunement[/skill] [skill]Deep Freeze[/skill] [skill]Vapor Blade[/skill] [skill]Ice Spikes[/skill] [skill]Shard Storm[/skill] [skill]Glyph of Restoration[/skill] [skill]Glyph of Elemental Power[/skill]

This build does good damage and causes alot of slowdowns which come in handy if there is nuker in the party.

Fire:
[skill]Glyph of Energy[/skill] [skill]Meteor shower[/skill] [skill]Rodgort's Invocation[/skill] [skill]Phoenix[/skill] [skill]Fireball[/skill] [skill]Fire storm[/skill] [skill]Glyph of Restoration[/skill] [skill]Fire Attunement[/skill]

This build is my Nuking build for dealing good AoE damage at Range

Cebe

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade
(theres no such thing as Best ones) Quoted for truth.

The "best" ele build imo depends on the area and the foes you are fighting.

A couple of my favourites over the last year have been:

[skill]Earth Attunement[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Ward Against Elements[/skill][skill]Unsteady Ground[/skill][skill]Ebon Hawk[/skill][skill]Churning Earth[/skill][skill]Dragon's Stomp[/skill][skill]Eruption[/skill]
I use this earth build with a staff with Double HCT which I find works like a charm for long-casting earth skills. Double HCT on Dragon's Stomp makes it the most leet interrupt ever! This build works like a charm on Margonites...for some reason, Margonite Casters group up every time which leads me into a nice Unsteady Ground > Eruption > Dragon's Stomp combo.

[skill]Water Attunement[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Vapor Blade[/skill][skill]Shatterstone[/skill][skill]Ice Spikes[/skill][skill]Maelstrom[/skill][skill]Shard Storm[/skill][skill]Deep Freeze[/skill]
Need to watch the energy on this one, but Maelstrom has a reasonably long recharge anyway so it's not easy to spam. Sometimes I will take Blurred Vision instead of Maelstrom, or [wiki]Feast of Corruption[/wiki] instead of Shatterstone...the Deep Freeze > Maelstrom > Feast of Corruption combo was fantastic in Kourna...

[skill]Fire Attunement[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Mind Blast[/skill][skill]Fireball[/skill][skill]Liquid Flame[/skill][skill]Mark of Rodgort[/skill][skill]Steam[/skill][skill]Shard Storm[/skill]
With Mark of Rodgort + Mind Blast spamming you can keep foes on fire indefinitely. Adding Steam into the mix to blind foes is nice. There's a snare for kiting monks (not so useful since hard mode was released)...fire isn't my favourite element, but fun to play nonetheless. This build does great damage in the Southern Shiverpeaks to Ice Golems.

[skill]Air Attunement[/skill][skill]Aura of Restoration[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Lightning Hammer[/skill][skill]Lightning Strike[/skill][skill]Enervating Charge[/skill][skill]Blinding Flash[/skill][skill]Invoke Lightning[/skill]
Lightning Hammer to be used sparingly in areas of high enchantment removal...but taking Elemental Attunement is nice if you want to spam it. Invoke Lightning is too much fun though!

Imo there is no single "best" ele build...as different build suit different areas better.

Dr Strangelove

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

Sophitia and Celestial- I mean absolutely no offense when I say this, but you both have the same problem with your builds. You seem to want to do every job a given element can do, all at once. For example, the invoke lightning build here at the bottom looks like it's tyring to be a blindbot, invoke lightning spiker, and single target spiker with hammer - it's too much, you don't have the time, energy or skill slots to make all of that work. I know I suffer from "toy box" mentality, where I want to throw every cool looking spell on my bar, but you've gotta learn to hold back a bit.

Also, don't feel too guilty about using your secondary. Eles are remarkably good at using their secondary, thanks to nifty energy management. A good way to go would be to add some self heals, since the elementalist options suck.

Finally, the rez thing. I know you both think eles should never bring a rez, but really, the things are incredibly useful, especially in hard mode.

To the OP: Searing flames is probably the easiest build to run, if you're not comfortable making your own builds, or managing the class.

Francis Crawford

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

I go almost all the time with two elementalist heroes in a happy Three Nuketeers build.

We all have Searing Flames/Glowing Gaze/Glyph of Lesser Energy/Fire Attunement. I round them out with two Inspiration interrupts, rez, and then which ever of Aura of Restoration, Mantra of Resolve, Signet of Humility, Physical Resistance, etc. seems most appropriate. Sometimes Meteor Shower, but I've gotten away from it because it seems to distract them from throwing SF.

If I'm not capping I go /Ranger for Serpent's Quickness. Either way, I generally round out the bar with extra damage -- Liquid Flame, Lightbringer's Gaze, Meteor Shower, whatever. Only rarely do I go defense, except that if I need a cover enchantment for Fire Attunement, I'll take Aura.

Lots of damage, and a bit of interrupt -- what's not to like?

Ensign

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

Ele secondary usage has actually become quite a bit more suspect now that we've shifted to a Glyph + Attunement energy base, instead of an energy elite basis. Secondary spells are disproportionately expensive with Attunements up, so they're only really good for spot usage. Aegis or Mystic Regeneration are popular, and great, splashes, but you can't support Heal Party spam on most bars anymore (Mind Blast being the only notable exception).

I agree entirely with putting too many skills on a bar. Energy and time are still tight, and the fast recharges on a lot of skills means that even spammable skills are going to end up being used situationally instead of regularly. It's often a lot better to take a high utility skill that will be used rarely over another spammable skill that won't be. For example, Blinding Surge / Enervating Charge / Lightning Strike with Glyph and Attunement can consume almost all of your time, attention, and energy - every other skill you run can be much lower priority.

As said, there isn't a 'best' bar for PvE. As a general trend, though, I'd say it goes something like this:

In 4 player areas, and some 6 player areas, some Air variant (Elemental Attunement, Invoke Lightning, Blinding Surge) is usually the strongest.

In 8 player areas as the only Elementalist, a Fire variant (Elemental Attunement, Mind Blast, Savannah Heat) is usually the best.

In 8 (or 12) player areas with lots of Elementalists, Searing Flames is the best build.

When playing solo, Earth variants (Ether Renewal, Glyph of Renewal, Shockwave, Sandstorm, Obsidian Flesh) are the best.

Peace,
-CxE

Ozric

Ozric

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Texas

Phoolz Like Us

E/Me

NoeS!! Double Dragon I tell you!!

Blade Blacdragon

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2007

Monk

E/

I don't know how to post the icons, and these are a lot of Proph only skills, but the build I did for all of proph, NF, and some of factions is:

MoR, Incendiary Bonds, Fireball, Liquid Flame, Rodgorts Invocation, Any quick AoE spell that lasts 5 seconds (or a rez), elemental attunement, flame attunement. Max fire and energy storage, go to down. Does SF for 10 energy.

If your REALLY that detail oriented, you can time IB, fireball, and liquid flame for a 2 second duration spike with lots of damage and lots of burning corpses. My guild loves it, nobody ever needs to bp/bip me, I am self contained (except for healing, which can be fixed if your tanks suck), and can provide all the damage a party needs.

Only time I switched was when I was bored and when I felt like OB tanking GoMadness :d


Not the best, but, it works flawlessly.

Kashrlyyk

Kashrlyyk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Blacdragon
I don't know how to post the icons, .... Just klick on the "Quote" button and then you can see, how it is done.

ArKaiN

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

Lotus Branca[Lbr]

Mo/Me

See why people hate stupid questions? The thread quickly degenerates into "This is what I use, and its HaXXoR awesome!"
Then someone comes over and says something like "OMG Rodgort's Invocation sucks arse with SF!"(which, really, is stupid - RI is a nuke that makes people burn. duh.) and it becomes a flame war.

Cebe

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Finally, the rez thing. I know you both think eles should never bring a rez, but really, the things are incredibly useful, especially in hard mode.
Why do people ALWAYS twist my words? I DON'T like to take a res (that is me, personally) because 95% of the time I play with heroes/hench or alliance members and we're good enough for most of us not to need a res. To my knowledge the only place I've ever taken a res on my ele is Fissure of Woe or the Underworld.

I've never said anyone should never take a res, the only res I hate with a passion is the terrible, god-awful, Glyph of Sacrifice + Resurrection Chant idea. 2 Skill Slots for one resurrect? No thanks.

As for your comment on my "ZOMG I MUST PACK MY SKILLZ BAR WIV TEH SKILLZ" mentality, well, there are slots in my builds which are "flexible", in general. For example, the earth build I use, I'm not altogether sold on Ebon Hawk and will often replace it with something which suits the situation better, such as another Ward. I like not taking a res, it makes me happy to not take a res, and yes, maybe it means I like to "live on the edge" but what else am I going to take? Just leave the slot blank? Personally I'd rather take another skill from the element's line that I'm playing with. (Just don't even suggest Heal Party...you know what suggesting that does to me...I start dying slowly )

Quote: Originally Posted by Francis Crawford If I'm not capping I go /Ranger for Serpent's Quickness. I've tried Serpent's Quickness with a Dual Attunement Air build. Pumping out Lightning Hammer is fun. While I'm on the subject of Air Builds, going back to Strangelove's Comment...I like Invoke Lightning, a LOT. And yes, maybe I am a sucker for making bolts of lightning appear from the heavens, but at no point did I say I didn't coordinate myself with Invoke Lightning Heroes, in fact I believe myself and Sophitia have played Invoke Lightning spikers from time to time.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
To the OP: Searing flames is probably the easiest build to run, if you're not comfortable making your own builds, or managing the class. Easiest? Yes.
Most Boring? Definitely.


Personally I find Savannah Heat and Mind Blast more enjoyable to use as elites in the Fire Magic line, although I will conceed Searing Flames is ok with large groups of eles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArKaiN
See why people hate stupid questions? The thread quickly degenerates into "This is what I use, and its HaXXoR awesome!" Imo it generally degenerates into a flame war because people expect other people to use cookie cutter builds...no other builds are allowed and all non conformers to be cast out. Hmm... certainly not my view... although I had an interesting experience in the Ruins of Surmia Yesterday with my mesmer...I decided to try Arcane Larceny and Signet of Illusions. I was doing the mission with a lvl 20 friend (we'd ran back from LA) and pinged my, unorthodox, build. The lvl 6 monk we'd helped from GNW laughed and left immediately. *sigh*

(on a further side note Lava Font with 15 Illusion on a Me/Rt OWNS, in fact I'd go so far as to say "its HaXXoR awesome!"... )

glountz

glountz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/Mo

I will talk only about Hard mode.

An Air ele for small parties with blinding flash. Many Air builds have already been posted.

For big parties, in areas with a lot of monsters, an earth ele with Eruption, and Unsteady Ground and Churning earth is very powerful. Why? Because mass blinding is a key feature to avoid physical damage in HM, and Churning earth will trigger on every monster, as they run 50% faster. A good way to keep them in other AOE's as well, like Bed of Coals.

[skill]Rebirth[/skill][skill]Earth attunement[/skill][skill]Glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]Unsteady ground[/skill][skill]Eruption[/skill][skill]Churning earth[/skill][skill]Stone daggers[/skill][skill]Ward against elements[/skill]

Bring a 40/40 recharge Earth weapons here.

Note: A rit with Earthbind works wonder here.

Sophitia Leafblade

Sophitia Leafblade

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Dragon Slayer Guild [DSG]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Sophitia and Celestial- I mean absolutely no offense when I say this, but you both have the same problem with your builds. You seem to want to do every job a given element can do, all at once. For example, the invoke lightning build here at the bottom looks like it's tyring to be a blindbot, invoke lightning spiker, and single target spiker with hammer - it's too much, you don't have the time, energy or skill slots to make all of that work. I know I suffer from "toy box" mentality, where I want to throw every cool looking spell on my bar, but you've gotta learn to hold back a bit.
My builds arnt trying to be anything in particular there simply builds I find to be very effective. My builds are made with skills that all of which ill use, if i have a skill i wont need, i wont equip it. I make sure my Builds can fight to the best of there ability, most of my Eles builds are highly offensive and yet i make sure they have enough energy management so they can continuously fight for long periods of time. We've all had Eles in our party (especially dual nukers) that release there st attacks and then do next to nothing for the next 2 minutes, my builds make sure i can keep on fighting until i cant fight anymore (ie im dead). Several of my builds have team support in mind even if its just a little like causing conditions on specific targets troubling other members of my team. Ill often Change my builds to fit the area im fighting in to keep them most effective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Also, don't feel too guilty about using your secondary. Eles are remarkably good at using their secondary, thanks to nifty energy management. A good way to go would be to add some self heals, since the elementalist options suck. Actually i find Glyph of Restoration actually a Very good self heal, although its quite a long recharge on it, it does have a massive heal and its far superior to a lot of other self heals like Troll etc. I will often use secondary skills, but generally i prefer not to and concentrate my attribute points into as few attributes as possible. Attrib- 19 Invoke Lightning is considerably more powerful that an attrib 9 one.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove Finally, the rez thing. I know you both think eles should never bring a rez, but really, the things are incredibly useful, especially in hard mode. Actually i prefer to take a Res Whenever possible, infact i rarely go anywhere without a Res just in case. However while playing my Ele with Heroes or friends i know there isnt much need for one and so ill drop it for my self heal glyph (Yes before NF i never bothered with a self heal while with henchies and or friends since i trusted my allies to keep an eye on me. Before then i always equipped a res but next to never needed to use it)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
I've tried Serpent's Quickness with a Dual Attunement Air build. Pumping out Lightning Hammer is fun. While I'm on the subject of Air Builds, going back to Strangelove's Comment...I like Invoke Lightning, a LOT. And yes, maybe I am a sucker for making bolts of lightning appear from the heavens, but at no point did I say I didn't coordinate myself with Invoke Lightning Heroes, in fact I believe myself and Sophitia have played Invoke Lightning spikers from time to time. Yup indeed we have and very nicely too. The build i mentioned was a general build i use that is not a specific team build. I do build a whole team "as one" sometimes but generally its more effective to let each member do what they do best - eg. Monks heal/Prot, Eles continuous high damage, mesmers shutdown and AL ignoring damage etc. etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
Imo it generally degenerates into a flame war because people expect other people to use cookie cutter builds...no other builds are allowed and all non conformers to be cast out. Hmm... certainly not my view... I dislike cookie cutter builds, ive avoid them whenever possible, id rather use my own build i understand how to use much more effectively and to better effect.

Cebe

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade
Actually i find Glyph of Restoration actually a Very good self heal, although its quite a long recharge on it, it does have a massive heal and its far superior to a lot of other self heals like Troll etc. I will often use secondary skills, but generally i prefer not to and concentrate my attribute points into as few attributes as possible. Attrib- 19 Invoke Lightning is considerably more powerful that an attrib 9 one. On the point of using dual elements. Whenever I do I generally sacrifice Energy Storage for the second, less important one. When I use two elements, or a skill from another profession, it tends to be less important than the element I'm primarily using, taking for example my build with Mark of Rodgort, Mind Blast and Steam, I have 16 Fire and 10 Water, since steam blinds for a nice amount of time without having to max out water.

Ensign

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

Random thoughts on Ele builds after messing around with a lot of bars this weekend while vanquishing:

Savannah Heat is mediocre, especially in PvE. It isn't significantly better than Searing Heat / Teinai's Heat, and you don't need 3 copies of that skill on your bar. I haven't been a fan of the character in PvP (it has poor flexibility, and relies on your opponent sucking to be good), and it's just bad in PvE where the mobs do run. If I just had to run this archtype, I'd play around with Glyph of Renewal / Searing / Teinai's for 4x Heats per 32 instead of 3. But I can't think of a PvE scenario where that's what I really wanted.

Invoke Lightning sucks. Or, Invoke Lightning, the skill, is awesome, but Invoke Lightning, the character, sucks. In the areas where the skill is rocking, you are a bad Fire Ele. When it isn't rocking, you're some bad single target DPS caster at best. The reason to use Air in PvE is Blinding Surge. On paper you could compare and contrast Blinding Surge with Invoke Lightning, and both have their merits...but the Air line is really weak, and Blinding Surge makes a character that's like 3x as good as Invoke Lightning characters. Take another look if the Air line stops sucking horribly.

Earth is basically worse than a Fire guy that splashes the Ward you really wanted. Unless you're somehow making good use of a high specced secondary on Earth/X, Fire/Earth is just better.

Immolate + Mind Blast does basically the same thing as Lightning Hammer/Lightning Orb/Lightning Strike/Elemental Attunement/Air Attunement. Except without all the infrastructure and skill slots. Air without Blind and Weakness is Blood bad.

I really wish Water did anything in PvE.

When playing as a 'caster Ele' in any team situation, there are really only 3 bars you need to know - Searing Flames, Mind Blast, and Blinding Surge. Some permutation of one of those 3 templates is going to be the best character you can run 99% of the time.

For reference without thinking too much:

Searing Flames
Glowing Gaze
Mark of Rodgort
Fire Attunement
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Meteor Shower
Glyph of Sacrifice
Resurrection Chant


Mind Blast
Immolate
Fireball
Rodgort's Invocation
Searing Heat
Flame Djinn's Haste
Fire Attunement
Death Pact Signet


Blinding Surge
Enervating Charge
Lightning Orb
Lightning Strike
Air Attunement
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Storm Djinn's Haste
Death Pact Signet


Peace,
-CxE

Cebe

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Blinding Surge
Enervating Charge
Lightning Orb
Lightning Strike
Air Attunement
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Storm Djinn's Haste
Death Pact Signet Out of interest why do you use Death Pact Signet as a res?

Don't get me wrong...I'm not criticising, I just wondered, why that rather than another?

bungusmaximus

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArKaiN
See why people hate stupid questions? The thread quickly degenerates into "This is what I use, and its HaXXoR awesome!"
Then someone comes over and says something like "OMG Rodgort's Invocation sucks arse with SF!"(which, really, is stupid - RI is a nuke that makes people burn. duh.) and it becomes a flame war. Fire eles waging a flame war, looks like people do exactly what they are supposed to do :P

Ozric

Ozric

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Texas

Phoolz Like Us

E/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
Out of interest why do you use Death Pact Signet as a res?

Don't get me wrong...I'm not criticising, I just wondered, why that rather than another? Pretty much a full health and energy rez. Pretty sexy. I hadn't used it, but my guildies have been yakkin about how awesome it is.

Dr Strangelove

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
Out of interest why do you use Death Pact Signet as a res?

Don't get me wrong...I'm not criticising, I just wondered, why that rather than another?
I've been falling in love with death pact signet in PvE as well. It has the same effect as glyph sac + res chant, casts just as fast, and has a lower recharge. The point about if they die you die isn't that huge a deal, with a combat rez you're really trying to get people up long enough to win the battle. Noncombat rezzes can be used later to clean up the mess if need be.

Also, death pact signet makes you get no DP when you die, which is awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Earth is basically worse than a Fire guy that splashes the Ward you really wanted. Unless you're somehow making good use of a high specced secondary on Earth/X, Fire/Earth is just better. This would be true, except that the earth ticking AoE spells are insanely effective, especially in hard mode.

Unsteady ground gives you good damage, melee disruption, and generally snares things long enough for the full damage to hit.

Since all monsters in HM move faster than normal, churning earth is absolutely insane. The monsters attempt to scatter, and get knocked for doing so. The cast time sucks, but it's unbelievably useful to toss in when you're expecting scatter.

Eruption is a great "oh crap, everyone's dying" spell that gives you 10-15 seconds of breathing time where everything is blinded. Also, more damage.

What you get from all 3 of those is a similar effect to 3x searing heat with a snare thrown in, and complete physical shutdown for around 15-20 seconds.

On air guys, I haven't seen many compelling reasons to run blinding surge over dual attunement blindbots with lightning hammer and orb.

XvArchonvX

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

@ ArKain: Saying that Rogdort's Invocation doesn't have good synergy in a SF build =/= starting a flame war.

@ Ensign: That SF build is really the best 'nuker' build available to a ele nowadays imo. However, unless you have at least 2 eles in a group running SF, it's pretty weak and little better than someone spamming Mark of Rodgort and Firestorm.

Ensign

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
On air guys, I haven't seen many compelling reasons to run blinding surge over dual attunement blindbots with lightning hammer and orb.
You get move overall damage while blinding from the built-in hit on BSurge. Your energy is also much more stable (you don't get destroyed by interrupts / removal the same way) and you can still function well riding the bottom of your energy capacity. Also, if need be, you can support something from your secondary without real problems. The AoE on BSurge is not a joke either.

I think the core of the difference, though, is that the thing that makes Dual Attunements attractive is the prospect of spamming Hammer + Orb...but overall, I think that's worse than Immolate + Mind Blast. The attractive part of Air is blind + weakness, and when you start looking at your bar from the perspective of maximizing those (with a few Orbs slipped in, of course) then BSurge starts to pull ahead.


On Earth guys, I like exactly two offensive skills, Eruption and Unsteady Ground. You use them both exactly the same way though, as a ticking AoE to get melee off of someone (which is also how you use Searing Heat a lot of the time) and they're both really good for that. Unsteady Ground is cheap and fast enough that I'm happy to throw it at solitary targets if neccessary, Eruption needs a clump to be worth spending energy on. Both are excellent skills.

Things fall off dramatically after that though. I've been really unimpressed by Churning Earth, even on Hard Mode. First off it basically never gets used defensively since you have two skills that are just plain better for that already. So it's a purely offensive ticking AoE, which generally isn't very strong in PvE because when you get a good clump of their casters, you want to exploit that with sustained AoE to make 'em die in a clump, not make them scatter. Fortunately (or unfortunately) ticking AoE on ranged monsters causes unreliable scatter. Usually they don't scatter until the very end, and some of them don't move at all.

The knockdown part of Churning Earth does so little it's a bit of a running joke to me. Here's the crux - a monster moving faster than normal, that you target with Churning Earth while moving, can move far enough before the first tick that the damage misses completely. Mobs tend to decide to scatter just after a tick lands. So what that bonus realistically does on Hard Mode, is that the monsters in the very middle of the AoE, if they decide to scatter, will *sometimes* not make it all the way out in one second and be knocked down to take the final two ticks. Monsters who were more on the edge and decide to scatter make it out of the AoE consistently. You do get a few knockdowns with Churning Earth, but it is an exception more than a rule.

It's still playable though because the rest of your line is so bad. You don't have any attractive non-ticking AoE options at all. You can cast Earthquake, yippee. You can try and get fancy with the single target skills, but it's all just a fancy, less effective way of spamming Stone Daggers.

So basically every Earth bar I make ends up looking like this:

Unsteady Ground
Eruption
Stone Daggers
Ward Against Elements
Ward Against Melee / Ward of Stability / Obsidian Flame / Whatever
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Earth Attunement
Death Pact Signet

That is not a strong character. He's ok, and minimally functional, but certainly not strong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
@ Ensign: That SF build is really the best 'nuker' build available to a ele nowadays imo. However, unless you have at least 2 eles in a group running SF, it's pretty weak and little better than someone spamming Mark of Rodgort and Firestorm. I think you need 3 to make it good. 2 are probably on par to a little worse than AoE-focused Mind Blast guys. Of course pretty much everyone runs with at least some heroes these days, so it's kinda hard to be stuck at two.

Peace,
-CxE

Coloneh

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
I've never said anyone should never take a res, the only res I hate with a passion is the terrible, god-awful, Glyph of Sacrifice + Resurrection Chant idea. 2 Skill Slots for one resurrect? No thanks. wow, you have got to stop saying this. sacc + chant can only be bested by DP signet. Im not saying to use 2 slots for rez, im saying that if your build could use glyph of sacrifice bring it along. I dont think youv really tried it, because as you have said you dont use fire, and M shower is really the only PvE skill that requires glyph of sacrifice. try it before you bash it please.

ArKaiN

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

Lotus Branca[Lbr]

Mo/Me

I'll vouch for signet of sac+MS+Res chant any day of the week. It's awesome.

Cebe

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
wow, you have got to stop saying this. sacc + chant can only be bested by DP signet. Im not saying to use 2 slots for rez, im saying that if your build could use glyph of sacrifice bring it along. I dont think youv really tried it, because as you have said you dont use fire, and M shower is really the only PvE skill that requires glyph of sacrifice. try it before you bash it please.
Well now you mention it, no, my build has never really leant itself to Glyph of Sacrifice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozric
Pretty much a full health and energy rez. Pretty sexy. I hadn't used it, but my guildies have been yakkin about how awesome it is. Aye, I know what it does, but assuming you use it to res the Sin who ran in like the "tank" he is...would you REALLY want to res him knowing that he would just run straight in again and you'd die too?

I can see the potential use for getting Monks up mid-battle, for that, it would be awesome, but as for other players...I'd rather not take the risk.

Of course if the team is not bad enough to die...you shouldn't need it anyway

glountz

glountz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign


Things fall off dramatically after that though. I've been really unimpressed by Churning Earth, even on Hard Mode. First off it basically never gets used defensively since you have two skills that are just plain better for that already. So it's a purely offensive ticking AoE, which generally isn't very strong in PvE because when you get a good clump of their casters, you want to exploit that with sustained AoE to make 'em die in a clump, not make them scatter. Fortunately (or unfortunately) ticking AoE on ranged monsters causes unreliable scatter. Usually they don't scatter until the very end, and some of them don't move at all.

The knockdown part of Churning Earth does so little it's a bit of a running joke to me. Here's the crux - a monster moving faster than normal, that you target with Churning Earth while moving, can move far enough before the first tick that the damage misses completely. Mobs tend to decide to scatter just after a tick lands. So what that bonus realistically does on Hard Mode, is that the monsters in the very middle of the AoE, if they decide to scatter, will *sometimes* not make it all the way out in one second and be knocked down to take the final two ticks. Monsters who were more on the edge and decide to scatter make it out of the AoE consistently. You do get a few knockdowns with Churning Earth, but it is an exception more than a rule.
-CxE Churning Earth is more than okay in HM.
If you have more than one ele, that said. If another ele start throwing a searing heat on a clump of casters, he says it, so the earth ele can throw a churning earth. Chruning earth comes to the end of SH, when the casters try to flee, they fall, they burn, they die.
It works wonder.

Francis Crawford

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Blacdragon
I don't know how to post the icons, and these are a lot of Proph only skills, but the build I did for all of proph, NF, and some of factions is:

MoR, Incendiary Bonds, Fireball, Liquid Flame, Rodgorts Invocation, Any quick AoE spell that lasts 5 seconds (or a rez), elemental attunement, flame attunement. Max fire and energy storage, go to down. Does SF for 10 energy.

If your REALLY that detail oriented, you can time IB, fireball, and liquid flame for a 2 second duration spike with lots of damage and lots of burning corpses. My guild loves it, nobody ever needs to bp/bip me, I am self contained (except for healing, which can be fixed if your tanks suck), and can provide all the damage a party needs.

Only time I switched was when I was bored and when I felt like OB tanking GoMadness :d


Not the best, but, it works flawlessly. That's pretty much what I did pre-SF, but it was also pre the buff to MoR, so there was no point in including that.

I still question how much sense MoR makes in your build, given that your two biggest-bang spells cause burning on their own anyway.

I agree totally with your suggestion that a build which requires BiPping is problematic, although obviously there are appropriate times, places, and teams for such.

Ensign

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

If you're new here, understand that anything from a secondary that an Elementalist can make really effective use out of, Celestial Beaver hates with a passion.

Played around with Churning Earth some more this evening. Paid close attention to when and how much it knocks down. Still didn't see anything that tells me it's worth 3c 30r. DoTAoEs that have to be used offensively start with a huge minus. The knockdowns from this don't add a significant amount of damage (I never saw one that knocked down before the 4th tick). It compares favorably to most of the other offensive options in Earth, but disfavorably to every other 240 targeted DoTAoE.

On the bright side, Unsteady Ground is excellent. If it were a Fire skill I'd consider using it more often. It's a finesse elite though, not a staple, power skill that fuels most of your gameplay...which Earth pretty thoroughly lacks.

Unsteady / Eruption / Stone Daggers / W. Melee / W. Elements is basically where it's at. I feel like a retard using Stone Daggers, but since Obsidian Flame isn't what I want in PvE there really isn't a better option. 70 for 5 isn't the worst deal at least.

Peace,
-CxE

Cebe

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
If you're new here, understand that anything from a secondary that an Elementalist can make really effective use out of, Celestial Beaver hates with a passion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
Why do people ALWAYS twist my words? We have 8 skill slots. Why reduce that to 6 for the sake of a res? That's all I'm saying

On the subject of Churning Earth, I have also noticed it's rare knockdowns, although in Hard Mode it's pretty cool. The one main thing I use it for is when I'm playing on Normal Mode (never tried it in Hard Mode...never wanted to more to the point) in the Domain of Secrets, clearing out the Margonite City. Eruption > Sandstorm > Dragon's Stomp > Churning Earth is amazing vs Margonites. They're just too stupid to move out of the AoE. Maybe it's an ego thing..."we're too powerful to die" *shrugs*... Works like a charm there, but in Normal Mode it does cause very few knockdowns. Personally I use it for the AoE and the potential 210 earth damage over 5 seconds, if you can keep them in the AoE enough. Dragon's Stomp + Earthbind is very nice for that.

The 30 second recharge is a shame.

Moa Bird Cultist

Moa Bird Cultist

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Hastings (UK) / Latham (USA)

Freedom Fanatical Scots [FFS]

E/W

Lets not get ahead of ourselves, everyone. Okay, so as we know, there is no 'best' build for general use. Although there may be builds that are more favoured in general, they are not the be all and end all of the class. The most important thing is that you find a bar that you enjoy playing. So here are some skills that I favour on my heroes- Fire and Earth, fire being an example of an extremely focused group of skills with excellent attack synergy, earth being an example of mediocre damage, poor attack synergy, but excellent anti melee prot support;

Fire:

[skill]Searing Flames[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill][skill]Fire Attunement[/skill][skill]Liquid Flame[/skill]

Fairly basic, but with those 4 skills and a Res, you could get through the whole game without anyone noticing that you have 3 skill slots empty.

Earth:

[skill]Sandstorm[/skill][skill]Eruption[/skill][skill]Ward Against Melee[/skill][skill]Earth Attunement[/skill]

Not as focused as the fire build and damage is mediocre by comparison. But to say it doesn't work would be an untruth. Basically, if all the enemies were as good at this game as ensign, this would suck beyond compare. But they're not that clever, as should be fairly obvious, hence, this will work fine.*

One other skill that is handy on both bars:

[skill]Glyph Of Lesser Energy[/skill]

A no - brainer really. Basically, not only does this serve as a backup for when your attunements get stripped, but it also lends itself excellently to splash investment in a secondary class, for example, Aegis, as ensign suggested already, or;

[skill]Convert Hexes[/skill],

IMO, a prot skill that was designed to be run by E/Mo secondaries. Primary monks have far better options available to them, but this skill suits the energy efficiency of a basic ele perfectly. It is also a godly skill later on in Nightfall due to just how many hexes you can get stacked on you.

And lastly:

[skill]Rebirth[/skill]

My opinion is 3 Res Signets to every Rebirth. Primary monks should be carrying a signet if they're carrying a res at all. Elementalists have the advantage of being able to attack from the back of a group, so provided you know what you're doing, with a little practice, you can avoid aggro even in the worst of pugs. Thats why Eles should take Rebirth. Yes, it reduces their combat ability, but if you're needing to use rebirth, chances are you're not gonna be in combat and besides, what gives the Ele the ability to cast so many high energy spells is not their increased energy pool, rather it is their superior ability to manage that pool.

Oh and my own personal build? Nah I'll pass on posting that up. Not only would everyone else in this thread have a field day with it**, but I'd lose what little credibility I have as a GW player...

*p.s, that was a compliment

**p.p.s, Hamstorm

Dr Strangelove

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
On the bright side, Unsteady Ground is excellent. If it were a Fire skill I'd consider using it more often. It's a finesse elite though, not a staple, power skill that fuels most of your gameplay...which Earth pretty thoroughly lacks.

Unsteady / Eruption / Stone Daggers / W. Melee / W. Elements is basically where it's at. I feel like a retard using Stone Daggers, but since Obsidian Flame isn't what I want in PvE there really isn't a better option. 70 for 5 isn't the worst deal at least.

Peace,
-CxE
It feels like Anet meant the ebon hawk/stoning combo to be the staple earth skills, but sadly, they just suck too much to get good use out of. Also, I'm not really sure why you'd bother with ward v. melee when you already have eruption and UG on your bar, which fulfill the same melee hate role. Obsidian flame does *ok* in that slot, as does churning earth. Earth really has too many useless tanking or niche utility skills to have much variety in bars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
On the subject of Churning Earth, I have also noticed it's rare knockdowns, although in Hard Mode it's pretty cool. The one main thing I use it for is when I'm playing on Normal Mode (never tried it in Hard Mode...never wanted to more to the point) in the Domain of Secrets, clearing out the Margonite City. Eruption > Sandstorm > Dragon's Stomp > Churning Earth is amazing vs Margonites. They're just too stupid to move out of the AoE. Maybe it's an ego thing..."we're too powerful to die" *shrugs*... Works like a charm there, but in Normal Mode it does cause very few knockdowns. Personally I use it for the AoE and the potential 210 earth damage over 5 seconds, if you can keep them in the AoE enough. Dragon's Stomp + Earthbind is very nice for that.

The 30 second recharge is a shame. I've run that earth combo before too, it works a lot like a savannah heat build where you toss a ward out instead of immolate in your spare time. It does seem like earthquake somehow resets their scatter AI for a few seconds after the KD, so everything hits the full duration.

I don't know why Anet insists on making all the ticking AoEs have a 30s recharge. I get why things like eruption are good enough to have the giant recharge, but dragon's breath on a 30s recharge? Come on.

As for death pact signet, if someone dies twice quickly, your party was probably wiping anyway, and so you just avoided DP.