Anyho... I believe Rits can heal. Heck, I *know* they can heal - 5 energy Spirit Light has something to do with this - but I'd still rather have a monk.
Healing sucks. Prot's where it's at. And monks kick ass at prot.
No one beleives rits can heal!?
Stormlord Alex
ooh, don't think I've posted here yet
Anyho... I believe Rits can heal. Heck, I *know* they can heal - 5 energy Spirit Light has something to do with this - but I'd still rather have a monk.
Healing sucks. Prot's where it's at. And monks kick ass at prot.
Anyho... I believe Rits can heal. Heck, I *know* they can heal - 5 energy Spirit Light has something to do with this - but I'd still rather have a monk.
Healing sucks. Prot's where it's at. And monks kick ass at prot.
fujin
Prot is the one thing a Ritualist can't do as well as a Monk.
moko
who cares really? and i would like to see a rit outheal an lod monk against degen. 
prot > heal, with hybrid lod being the exceptions, and rits aren't better at neither.
jack of all trades, master of nothing afterall~
prot > heal, with hybrid lod being the exceptions, and rits aren't better at neither.
jack of all trades, master of nothing afterall~
Mekkakat
weapon spells, if you know how to play, can gain you energy instead of lose you energy, add that up with WoW, and or Wailing Weapon, for some of the most brutal prot/utility ever. not to mention, most prot monks and prot build suck butt, and the red bar goes no where, while the monk goes nuts trying to heal a whole team. its much easier for a rit to never run out of energy.. ever.
Tab
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekkakat
weapon spells, if you know how to play, can gain you energy instead of lose you energy, add that up with WoW, and or Wailing Weapon, for some of the most brutal prot/utility ever. not to mention, most prot monks and prot build suck butt, and the red bar goes no where, while the monk goes nuts trying to heal a whole team. its much easier for a rit to never run out of energy.. ever.
Lern2prot. Prot builds most definately do not 'suck butt', and the red bar DOES go somewhere, Spirit Bond for example will heal 96 each time it triggers with 14 prot. Also, evaluating builds on how much they make red bars go up is not how to look at it. Look at how much damage they stop.
While Weapon of Warding is a great skill, its nowhere near as good as some monk skills such as SB as an active prot. Its pretty much a Guardian with a small heal attached.
Monks should only have to 'go nuts healing the whole team' if both monks somehow fail at protting and let masses of damage through.
While Weapon of Warding is a great skill, its nowhere near as good as some monk skills such as SB as an active prot. Its pretty much a Guardian with a small heal attached.
Monks should only have to 'go nuts healing the whole team' if both monks somehow fail at protting and let masses of damage through.
Mekkakat
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets
Lern2prot.
cute.
im not the one protting, its other monks in general that will 99% of the time be out-survived by me and my rit. thats when i get the pms asking, "how do you have THAT much energy to spam every move on your bar non-stop???". i rather play an active spell-support than a mediocre cookie cutter monk running something as retarded as SoR. the only thing monks have worth getting is Purge, LoD, remove hex, deny, and Spirit Bond, which can all be specced for another class, and 3 of them don't even need specs to work well.
im not the one protting, its other monks in general that will 99% of the time be out-survived by me and my rit. thats when i get the pms asking, "how do you have THAT much energy to spam every move on your bar non-stop???". i rather play an active spell-support than a mediocre cookie cutter monk running something as retarded as SoR. the only thing monks have worth getting is Purge, LoD, remove hex, deny, and Spirit Bond, which can all be specced for another class, and 3 of them don't even need specs to work well.
Tab
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekkakat
cute.
im not the one protting, its other monks in general that will 99% of the time be out-survived by me and my rit. thats when i get the pms asking, "how do you have THAT much energy to spam every move on your bar non-stop???". i rather play an active spell-support than a mediocre cookie cutter monk running something as retarded as SoR. the only thing monks have worth getting is Purge, LoD, remove hex, deny, and Spirit Bond, which can all be specced for another class, and 3 of them don't even need specs to work well. You should be protting too. Having a backline with a 'healer' and a 'protter' is a waste, two heal/prot hybrids are far better. Yes, rits can outlast a monk in terms of straight heal spamming, due to skills like Spirit Light. My point is prot>heal. Heal is just nowhere near as efficient in endgame PvE/PvP.
Also, SoR is not a retarded skill. It is probably even more efficient that rit skills. For 15e, youre halving all armour based damage for its duration, as well as healing for ~250.
As for your list of usefull skills...Remove Hex is crap. Deny is average at best. You missed out skills such as RoF and PS which are way better than anything the rit has.
im not the one protting, its other monks in general that will 99% of the time be out-survived by me and my rit. thats when i get the pms asking, "how do you have THAT much energy to spam every move on your bar non-stop???". i rather play an active spell-support than a mediocre cookie cutter monk running something as retarded as SoR. the only thing monks have worth getting is Purge, LoD, remove hex, deny, and Spirit Bond, which can all be specced for another class, and 3 of them don't even need specs to work well. You should be protting too. Having a backline with a 'healer' and a 'protter' is a waste, two heal/prot hybrids are far better. Yes, rits can outlast a monk in terms of straight heal spamming, due to skills like Spirit Light. My point is prot>heal. Heal is just nowhere near as efficient in endgame PvE/PvP.
Also, SoR is not a retarded skill. It is probably even more efficient that rit skills. For 15e, youre halving all armour based damage for its duration, as well as healing for ~250.
As for your list of usefull skills...Remove Hex is crap. Deny is average at best. You missed out skills such as RoF and PS which are way better than anything the rit has.
Mekkakat
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets
You should be protting too. Having a backline with a 'healer' and a 'protter' is a waste, two heal/prot hybrids are far better. Yes, rits can outlast a monk in terms of straight heal spamming, due to skills like Spirit Light. My point is prot>heal. Heal is just nowhere near as efficient in endgame PvE/PvP.
Also, SoR is not a retarded skill. It is probably even more efficient that rit skills. For 15e, youre halving all armour based damage for its duration, as well as healing for ~250.
As for your list of usefull skills...Remove Hex is crap. Deny is average at best. You missed out skills such as RoF and PS which are way better than anything the rit has. funny again. rits can prot too, and if you're going to hybrid, which all good monks do, oh wait.. all classes do.. geeze, a warrior with tactics, strength, AND weapon mastery? of course you cross spec dude, and why in the world couldnt a rit use Spirit Bond, or say even dismiss?
btw, spirit bond>ps, and RoF is fine and all, but there's utility in WoR, VW too, all preference.
last but not least, mesmer+recall+fast casting+remove hex=team win. in laymens terms, remove hex is a viably good move.
Also, SoR is not a retarded skill. It is probably even more efficient that rit skills. For 15e, youre halving all armour based damage for its duration, as well as healing for ~250.
As for your list of usefull skills...Remove Hex is crap. Deny is average at best. You missed out skills such as RoF and PS which are way better than anything the rit has. funny again. rits can prot too, and if you're going to hybrid, which all good monks do, oh wait.. all classes do.. geeze, a warrior with tactics, strength, AND weapon mastery? of course you cross spec dude, and why in the world couldnt a rit use Spirit Bond, or say even dismiss?
btw, spirit bond>ps, and RoF is fine and all, but there's utility in WoR, VW too, all preference.
last but not least, mesmer+recall+fast casting+remove hex=team win. in laymens terms, remove hex is a viably good move.
Tab
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekkakat
funny again. rits can prot too, and if you're going to hybrid, which all good monks do, oh wait.. all classes do.. geeze, a warrior with tactics, strength, AND weapon mastery? of course you cross spec dude, and why in the world couldnt a rit use Spirit Bond, or say even dismiss?
btw, spirit bond>ps, and RoF is fine and all, but there's utility in WoR, VW too, all preference.
last but not least, mesmer+recall+fast casting+remove hex=team win. in laymens terms, remove hex is a viably good move. Rits can prot aswell, yes I said that several posts ago. However, they can NOT prot as well as monks. It's a fact.
There's builds that spec only heal and div or only prot and div. And there's hybrid heal/prot builds. My point is hybrids are better.
I never claimed that PS is better than SB, I also think that SB is alot better.
A rit could use SB or dismiss. But a monk can use it better.
And while we're on that subject, if rits are better than monks because they can use monk skills, why can't monks use rit skills?
WoR is an elite, Vengeful is decent, but RoF is way better. RoF actually stops the damage as well as healing, whereas Vengeful simply heals it while doing a small amount of damage.
Of course Remove Hex can be used well. Almost every single skill can. I believe though, that we were discussing the usefulness of skills for monks/rits? In which case Veil is better.
I don't see why you're arguing the fact. I've happily stated that rits heal better and monks prot better. You can't argue with that. Monks have an entire line of skills, whereas rits have WoR, VW and WoW.
If rits were way better than monks, as you seem to think, they would have replaced monks in GvG. They haven't. Rits are extremely good at making red bars go up, and have good energy management while doing it. However, even with a rit's ability to spam heals, you WILL run out of energy without protting. Which is why monks are better.
btw, spirit bond>ps, and RoF is fine and all, but there's utility in WoR, VW too, all preference.
last but not least, mesmer+recall+fast casting+remove hex=team win. in laymens terms, remove hex is a viably good move. Rits can prot aswell, yes I said that several posts ago. However, they can NOT prot as well as monks. It's a fact.
There's builds that spec only heal and div or only prot and div. And there's hybrid heal/prot builds. My point is hybrids are better.
I never claimed that PS is better than SB, I also think that SB is alot better.
A rit could use SB or dismiss. But a monk can use it better.
And while we're on that subject, if rits are better than monks because they can use monk skills, why can't monks use rit skills?
WoR is an elite, Vengeful is decent, but RoF is way better. RoF actually stops the damage as well as healing, whereas Vengeful simply heals it while doing a small amount of damage.
Of course Remove Hex can be used well. Almost every single skill can. I believe though, that we were discussing the usefulness of skills for monks/rits? In which case Veil is better.
I don't see why you're arguing the fact. I've happily stated that rits heal better and monks prot better. You can't argue with that. Monks have an entire line of skills, whereas rits have WoR, VW and WoW.
If rits were way better than monks, as you seem to think, they would have replaced monks in GvG. They haven't. Rits are extremely good at making red bars go up, and have good energy management while doing it. However, even with a rit's ability to spam heals, you WILL run out of energy without protting. Which is why monks are better.
Mekkakat
i've never ran out of energy, ever, period with any of my builds. its called energy management, and its really a simple concept. WoW is indisputably the single best block in the game, and its 0 energy to cast if you played rits long enough to learn their e-management skills. i never use any monk moves on my rit except deny ONCE in a blue moon. monks won't be replaced, nor will any class, so that was a silly thing to even add in there. every class has its place, gimmick, or feel that lets it find its own place/teams, so to say x with replace y, no one even came close to that. opinions are opinions, but to say rits cant prot at all is just you not knowing how to play the game, and to add cute little rude comments like learn how to prot, when i dont even care to play monks, knowing i play a better rit, is real classy. most people running goofy little cookie cutters, randomly using them are going to fail, and there are more monk noobs trying to pull it off than rits, which is all i said, so dont claim to be a master of nothing, and then try to argue one classes leetness over another on top of it, because some people DO play the extended classes.
Snow Bunny
Prot monks are good monks. Prot-hybrids are good monks too. If it comes down to a monk and a rit, I will take the monk. The monk can do more than "red bars go up". My first character ever was a rit, so I've had the rit experience all the way through 3 campagins.
RoF just healed for 100+. A bit more efficient than anything a rit has.
2 Prot Monks will easily be more valuable than 2 resto rits.
I'd prefer to prevent than patch up.
RoF just healed for 100+. A bit more efficient than anything a rit has.
2 Prot Monks will easily be more valuable than 2 resto rits.
I'd prefer to prevent than patch up.
Mekkakat
again, all preference, theres absolutely nothing wrong with choosing the monk over a rit. i like healing more than protting, because i can see damage. i dont like anticipating, or trying to guess when its coming.
moko
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekkakat
Quote:
|
Lern2prot.
hmmmmmmmmmm....
Dr Strangelove
Prot for ritualists is either weapon spells or communing spirits., Weapon spells can't stack and don't work quite as efficiently as monk prot, but weapon of warding is still nothing to sneeze at even post-nerf.
Communing spirits are a hell of a lot harder to manage now, but that just makes things more fun. I've been running this in hard mode lately, works great. [skill]union[/skill][skill]displacement[/skill][skill]shelter[/skill][skill]soul twisting[/skill][skill]signet of binding[/skill][skill]boon of creation[/skill][skill]death pact signet[/skill]optional slot the optional slot can be signet of creation, vital weapon, mantra of concentration, summon spirits, or anything else you find handy. Works surprisingly well as supplemental prot if you manage the spirits well. Rit Lord is pretty much dead unless you're riding a BiP, though.
Snow Bunny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekkakat
again, all preference, theres absolutely nothing wrong with choosing the monk over a rit. i like healing more than protting, because i can see damage. i dont like anticipating, or trying to guess when its coming.
Um...
Yeeesh. I guess you don't do much PvP then, eh? Anticipation (especially against spikes), is sort of the name of the game there. To use a common (and on topic example), 6 Rits just Wielder's Striked your teammate in Burial Mounds. I think anticipation, or even a catch spike (Infuse, Lod - both of which are Healing) is better in that circumstance, and for pvp in that regard, because pvp doesn't revolve around DPS, it revolves around damage spikes.
samcobra
More like... zomg spirit rift... you see the giant ball of light float up, or you see the eurospike warrior teleport and you're like.. .omgwtf PROT!
moko
Quote:
Originally Posted by samcobra
More like... zomg spirit rift... you see the giant ball of light float up, or you see the eurospike warrior teleport and you're like.. .omgwtf PROT!
AND THEN YOU GO LIKE OMFG SHIT SHATTER AND REND ENCHANTS LOL OWNED?
RachaelH
I have big respect for rits (I am a healer/prot monk) and am allways interested to see the new builds that you guys think up. What happens if i pick rit as my secondary would I be able to use some of the tricks of the rit resotration trade to my advantage or is it only viable with superior runes only avaliable for the ritty?
Thanks! Need a secondary profession? Have a spare skill slot? Then pick Necro and help out your fellow casters with br!
frojack
In all honesty, if your a monk, */Rt doesn't do much for you, since you have Divine Favour. You have everything you need within your line already. Most of the really good rit stuff requires spirits to get off the ground. as a monk you really shouldn't be bothering yourself with crap like that. Rit's come into their own as a mid-line who can support buff both the front and the rear, or spike the crap out of things, while healing at the same time. The one-dimensional but painfully necessary monk doesn't have to worry about stuff like that.
Besides, prot is far and away 10x better than heal. LoD/prot bars are pretty good in pve. Dwayna's/Gift (and obviously LoD) is usually all I need for healing, while I pack similar on a monk hero or usually I'm in a pug with a 'leet' monk healer anyways (LoD? looool. Noob monkage! Get a real elite like Zealous Benediction or Word of Healing _-_ . 30 minutes later... Wow decent monk! especially with such a shit bar ^_^). That's all you really need in pve, up until you get to nonsensical gimmicky areas like DoA/Urgoz/Deep etc., but that's another story...
Age
I have played RestoRit. and sure Rits can heal but not as affective as even pure healing Monks.Monks can heal someone at 60% health or even 50% that is something a Rit. can't do sure they more efficient.They have to have 1sec casting spells and their shorter casting spells require an spirit be down or holding an item.
Darkpower Alchemist
It seems the usual suspects are all in this thread already, so I'll add to the pot. Monks and Rits have different jobs. As obvious as that statement sounds, it seems that all have seemed to throw that little bit of info out the window in some of your better arguments.
To put out individual skills and compare one to the other, or the healing prayers line to the restoration line, and to the protection line is fruitless dribble. The main point that one should argue is why would a rit want to be a monk? Why would you want to be the healer when the healer gets all the blame? Ritualists are natural support characters, and so are monks, but not in the exact same vein. A channeling/spirit spammer hybrid does alot more on a field,imo, than that same rit being a restoration rit in PvE. In PvP, the rit plays a similar role- not saying the rit isn't capable of being a healer, but it's just so much better at multitasking that it shouldn't jump into the healers only pool. Ritualists that provide damage buffs and spike attacks seem to be more useful in that capacity than them trying to do what the protection/LoD monk does well already. Rits as healers in a pinch is fine, but not as the pimary healer/protection caster. Maybe in the case of a 3rd healer, but not as the solo or secondary healer in a 1 monk team. Multitasking Rits FTW! 
Batou of Nine
Wow, old thread, what ressurected it?
Oh well i haven't given my 2 cents yet, let me fulfill my "i must be heard" impulse. LoL. In a 2 healer party. A resto rit can easily outheal a heal hench. Efficiency wise, they can easily fulfil as the secondary heal/support. Touching on the OP's original point, no i would NOT pick a healer hench over a rit healer. A human player, i would probably pick a monk over the rit, but in a pug situation its still a gamble, as actual heal potential comes down to the person's skill and knowledge of the roll. I can honestly say that myself and many others are probably 10x better restoration healers then half of all monks out there. And again that comes down to player skill. That said, i have enough knowledge of both classes to say that i cannot personally create a restoration rit build that could outheal any of my pure heal builds on my monk. Now that is in regards to only my personal skill with both professions. I bet there are some players out there that are better at ritualist build creation then i am and have a restoration build comparable to my best heal monk build. Yes, fundimentally, the class was NOT created with such a pure support focus as the monk was. The ritualist is kind of like the jack-of-all-trades for caster professions, can heal, support, dmg, etc. Back to the OP's thoughts, although i disagree with a few points (like, SpiritLight being the best heal in GW, or that a restoration build is flat out better then a heal build, or his build that includes channeling skills), i still think it was silly of a pug to pick a henchy over a human, especially one that could fulfill as the 2ndary healer. Yes, his build was shotty, so that doesn't really help support his claims... If GW:EN somehow introduces skills to better sustain a restoration healer, in terms of energy management, casting speed, and healing potentials, then Rits could possibly move into actual PvP healing, but i doubt this will happen. I'll end with this: No, a ritualist can never completely take over the roll as the primary healer in *PvP* as their skills are not designed for action that is that fast paced. However, in *PvE*, i believe they can easily fulfill the roll as secondary healer in any group, and be successful enough to be used in high pressure *PvE* situations. cheers.
Fishmonger
Well, if the GW:EN skills are actually real on guildwiki, we (rits)don't have much hope. All of the restoration skills seem almost useless as far as I can see, but Energetic was Lee Wa looks good as long as it isn't elite
Monks on the other hand seem to be gettin some fairly useful skills. Oh well, guess we'll see who wins when GW:EN comes out =D |
