Non-Fleshy Monsters - how do I hit them HARD?

Non-bleeding monsters such as:
Stone Elementals (Mesa, Crag, etc)
Skeletons
What weapon hits them hard (sure not my sword!!!)?
What are some good builds for using the best weapons on them?
Thank you.

Don't Sever-Gash them. That's it really. Sword is fine as long as you stay away from Bleeding (Dragon Slash is always a good option). Axe is good, as you have Eviscerate and Triple Chop, which are both really good elites. Hammer usually isn't the best/preferred option in PvE, although basically any decent build will do well against them.

[card]Sun and Moon Slash[/card][card]Standing Slash[/card][card]Galrath Slash[/card][card]Silverwing Slash[/card][card]Dragon Slash[/card][card]Flail[/card][card]Healing Signet[/card][card]Resurrection Signet[/card]
[card]Triple Chop[/card][card]Executioner's Strike[/card][card]Dismember[/card][card]Penetrating Blow[/card][card]Penetrating Chop[/card][card]Flail[/card][card]Healing Signet[/card][card]Resurrection Signet[/card]

Meh, both are cookie-cutter builds, but don't underestimate them. You can modify them in almost any way you want, as long as you don't do anything stupid like use Healing Prayers.

Quote: Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

I am using [skill]Barbarous Slice[/skill][skill]Gash[/skill][skill]Final Thrust[/skill][skill]Rage of the Ntouka[/skill] (only have nightfall)
Even if I met non-fleshy enemies, I just do the above combination. Eventhough the bleeding and deep wound won't trigger, the + damage do.

Btw, how to embed those pretty skill icons ?

*edit* added pretty skill icons

Thanks Stormlord !!

Sod it, just quote me and check

[skill]gash[/skill]

Marty, you have too many attacks and too little adrenaline gain. Try these: [skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill][skill]Enraging Charge[/skill]

[skill]Devastating Hammer[/skill][skill]Crushing Blow[/skill][skill]Fierce Blow[/skill][skill]Heavy Blow[/skill][skill]Frenzy[/skill][skill]Rush[/skill][skill]Enraging Charge[/skill]
12+2+1 hammer 12+1 strength
[skill]Triple Chop[/skill][skill]Dismember[/skill][skill]Penetrating Blow[/skill][skill]Penetrating Chop[/skill][skill]Soldier's Strike[/skill][skill]"Watch Yourself!"[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill]
12+2+1 axe 11+2 tactics 6+1 strength
[skill]Dragon Slash[/skill][skill]Power Attack[/skill][skill]Standing Slash[/skill][skill]Galrath Slash[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill][skill]Enraging Charge[/skill]
12+3+1 sword 12+1 strength
use zealous with the second two, or for the second replace PA with s+m and take a conjure (elemental) or orders (furious).

And since you mention undead... gotta love [skill]Heart of Holy Flame[/skill].

My pve builds tend to assume I have competent monks, i.e. heroes not pugs

Quote: Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

[skill]Forceful Blow[/skill][skill]Fierce Blow[/skill][skill]Heavy Blow[/skill][skill]Crushing Blow[/skill][skill]Flail[/skill][skill]Enraging Charge[/skill]

That's the only hammer elite I'll ever use in pve, but it's a good one. Low cost and causes weakness to use with other skills. It's easy to start the combo since your highest adren skill only costs 6. Lack of shield shouldn't be a problem if the monks on your team are decent.

If you really wanna get out as much damage as you can, some enemies have weakness against certain types of damage.

Quote: Originally Posted by RoadKill97

Sword:
[skill]"For great justice!"[/skill][skill]enraging charge[/skill][skill]flail[/skill][skill]standing slash[/skill][skill]silverwing slash[/skill][skill]sun and moon slash[/skill][skill]Dragon Slash[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Axe:
[skill]enraging charge[/skill][skill]flail[/skill][skill]penetrating blow[/skill][skill]disrupting chop[/skill][skill]eviscerate[/skill][skill]executioner's strike[/skill][skill]critical chop[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Hammer:
[skill]enraging charge[/skill][skill]flail[/skill][skill]counter blow[/skill][skill]mighty blow[/skill][skill]backbreaker[/skill][skill]crushing blow[/skill][skill]belly smash[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Those builds all hit hard

[skill]Rage of the Ntouka[/skill] [skill]Sun and Moon Slash[/skill] [skill]Galrath Slash[/skill] [skill]Silverwing Slash[/skill] [skill]Standing Slash[/skill] [skill]Final Thrust[/skill] [skill]Flail[/skill] [skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

15 - Strength
15 - Swords


An alternative to the dragon slash build, I perfer this one, I churns out high dmg skills and is easy to use.

~A Leprechaun~

Quote: Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade Dragon Slash IS adrenaline gain, and Triple Chop gives a nice boost with grouped monsters. With PvE being relatively easy atm (in easy mode anyway), it's fine to run 5 attacks and beat the hell out of everything. Despite how easy PvE is, it doesn't make running a non-perfected build any smarter. Dragon Slash is an adrenaline gain that requires 10 strikes of adrenaline before you can make any good use of it. Without any other adrenaline gain, it takes forever to get DS going, and the battle is pretty much over at this point (unless your team sucks at damage). And don't forget how strong FGJ! is when you get Dragon Slash going.

Every extra attack you take reduces the effectiveness of all your attacks by a little, which is one of the reasons why it is better to go with - lets say - three attacks, including Dragon Slash, Conjure of your choice, the adrenaline gain skills I mentioned before, and Flail. That is if you want the best DPS and a fully offensive build (otherwise I would include one or two of the following utility: Distracting Blow, "Watch Yourself!", Rending Touch, or Wild Blow).

Quote: Trust me, 3 Grandmaster Cartographer titles and 3 Protector titles (working on hard mode atm), I know what I'm talking about. There are players who can take advice, learn from mistakes, and generally try to improve their skill and knowledge by trying different builds and tactics to see what works best.

And then there are players who get overly defensive when criticized, repeat their mistakes, some may call others by names, and some may list stuff they have done or possess in effort to make them look superior.

In which group you want to be?

Quote: Originally Posted by RoadKill97 Despite how easy PvE is, it doesn't make running a non-perfected build any smarter. Yes, but it doesn't matter much if you don't have a 100% efficient build, which was my pointwith this statement.

Quote: Originally Posted by RoadKill97 Dragon Slash is an adrenaline gain that requires 10 strikes of adrenaline before you can make any good use of it. Without any other adrenaline gain, it takes forever to get DS going, and the battle is pretty much over at this point (unless your team sucks at damage). And don't forget how strong FGJ! is when you get Dragon Slash going. Meh, I don't mind the 10 adrenaline startup cost for Dragon Slash; I almost find it fun for it to be like that. I like to think 'you wait just 2 more seconds for 2 more adr, and ill slice you in half'. It isn't the most efficient way to do things, but I find it more fun, which is all that matters, seeing as this is a game.

Quote: Originally Posted by RoadKill97 Every extra attack you take reduces the effectiveness of all your attacks by a little, which is one of the reasons why it is better to go with - lets say - three attacks, including Dragon Slash, Conjure of your choice, the adrenaline gain skills I mentioned before, and Flail. That is if you want the best DPS and a fully offensive build (otherwise I would include one or two of the following utility: Distracting Blow, "Watch Yourself!", Rending Touch, or Wild Blow). Meh, once again, it comes down to fun for me. Sometimes I get tempted to run a full, 8 adrenaline skill bar. There's no way in hell running 7 attacks + Flail (which I find fun), is the 1337est build out there, but it's great to watch. Same thing with utility; I'll only run it when I need to, not in normal PvE. I interrupted an action... wow (/sarcasm). I'd rather see some nice high, yellow numbers tbh.

Quote: Originally Posted by RoadKill97

Well met!

I, too, refuse to be bullied into using a skill that "everyone" says is the most efficient with the skill set, attribute combo, armor set(s) and weapon rack that "everyone" says you "must" have. It is good to have some idea of the numbers and the potential synergies in a build. But, in actual play, I find that other, more intuitive, tactics are best for me. I don't carry conditional skills or distracting blow on my bar, because focussing on watching for their conditions or something to interrupt, respectively, and hovering my mouse pointer over them, distracts me from the "flow" of battle. Your description of how dragonslash feels to you is coincident with mine--wait...wait...unleash combo...repeat. That's why I like rage of the ntouka so much, because, with it, there is more of a constant flow, regardless of condition. All my skills are always useful. None sit on my bar, waiting for their moment. Even sever and gash, which "everyone" says you must carry, I often don't, because I don't like to wait and see if sever hit before hitting gash. However, I find that I don't mind waiting on final thrust, because it's condition, enemy at <50% health, is so often met (which says something positive about my style I think, lol). Thus I run the following:

16 sword, 13 strength, rest in tactics (for lion's comfort) or a secondary (conjure...open to suggestion)

RotN [E], flail, standing slash, sun & moon, power attack, final thrust, lion's comfort, [sig of whatever...open to suggestion, again, lol]

All I need to focus on, with respect to my bar, is not hitting flail too soon once it is up, make sure that, in spamming power attack, I have enough energy for RotN when it has recharged, and deciding when to use final thrust and/or lion's comfort. This leaves me free to focus on whom to attack/let go, and the effect I am having on my target's health. In the heat of battle, I often find myself in the "zone". Pick nearest and attack, kill quickly or, if too much resistance, choose next target, repeat until all dead, never loosing sight of the bigger picture, not overextending, aware of my teammates. That's the style of my Warrior of the Sword, Shihan Ki.

Please feel free to contact me in game!

I thought first not reply again because there is no point arguing about opinions on what is fun and how to play the game. But then I thought to clarify a few things before we end this.

First, you may have already realized this, but trying to be as efficient as possible is part of my fun. I do get sometimes urge to play less useful builds, but I'll get bored within a few minutes seeing how I'm then more or less deadweight to my team.

Quote: Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade ...Same thing with utility; I'll only run it when I need to, not in normal PvE. I interrupted an action... wow (/sarcasm). I'd rather see some nice high, yellow numbers tbh. Haha...

Only very few skills are really needed in PvE. Instead, you choose skills, which you believe to be useful. Every utility skill I listed is damn useful, even if you only want more damage. For example, yesterday I vanquished Diviner's Ascent, which has a good number of Sand Drakes. Those Sand Drakes literally spam Ward Against Melee, which reduces the damage by a lot. So Distracting Blow did definitely help me to see more big, yellow numbers. Note that every area in the game has enemies that have something worth of distracting, rending, and/or wild blowing, so it is normal PvE.

So basically, good utility skills = more high, yellow numbers.

As a small note, usually if I want to have Wild Blow in my team, I'll take a dervish to bring it instead one of my warriors because losing all adrenaline sucks for warriors.

Well met!

Quote: Originally Posted by RoadKill97 I thought first not reply again because there is no point arguing about opinions on what is fun and how to play the game. But then I thought to clarify a few things before we end this.

First, you may have already realized this, but trying to be as efficient as possible is part of my fun. I do get sometimes urge to play less useful builds, but I'll get bored within a few minutes seeing how I'm then more or less deadweight to my team.



Haha...

Only very few skills are really needed in PvE. Instead, you choose skills, which you believe to be useful. Every utility skill I listed is damn useful, even if you only want more damage. For example, yesterday I vanquished Diviner's Ascent, which has a good number of Sand Drakes. Those Sand Drakes literally spam Ward Against Melee, which reduces the damage by a lot. So Distracting Blow did definitely help me to see more big, yellow numbers. Note that every area in the game has enemies that have something worth of distracting, rending, and/or wild blowing, so it is normal PvE.

So basically, good utility skills = more high, yellow numbers.

As a small note, usually if I want to have Wild Blow in my team, I'll take a dervish to bring it instead one of my warriors because losing all adrenaline sucks for warriors. I believe you and Marty are both intelligent, and enjoy creating efficient builds to suit your individual styles. I would welcome both of you in a party I was leading. This particular discussion appears to revolve around the issue of what is efficiency. When I first created my warrior, I tried to cover all the bases--defense, self heal, interruption, etc. I used shields up and watch yourself, healing signet and a rez. I tried to work in frenzy, lol. My secondary took 2 or 3 slots on my bar (aura of thorns, vital boon, sig of pious light--gash, no sever...). 14 sword, 11 tactics, rest in secondary--tried for balance. I wanted to be self-sufficient. After perusing the forums and experimenting with some of the build concepts therein, I have come to the conclusion that it is more efficient for me, as a warrior, to rely upon my teammates' and/or heroes' strengths. 16 sword, 13 strength, rest in secondary. So--in the case of your sand drakes, I would extend your reasoning with your dervish/wild blow to justify bringing acolyte jin to interrupt ward against melee so I could use the energy/slot on your bar for an attack or to buff my attack. Marty would probably go even further and experiment with relying totally on monks for healing and/or rezzing too, and so justify 5 attack skills on his bar. A question to discuss would be how, when, why, where and to what extent to rely/trust heroes/teammates, and how the answer to that question affects your build/style of play. I look forward to your comments.

Well met!

Quote: Originally Posted by RoadKill97 I thought first not reply again because there is no point arguing about opinions on what is fun and how to play the game. But then I thought to clarify a few things before we end this.

First, you may have already realized this, but trying to be as efficient as possible is part of my fun. I do get sometimes urge to play less useful builds, but I'll get bored within a few minutes seeing how I'm then more or less deadweight to my team.



Haha...

Only very few skills are really needed in PvE. Instead, you choose skills, which you believe to be useful. Every utility skill I listed is damn useful, even if you only want more damage. For example, yesterday I vanquished Diviner's Ascent, which has a good number of Sand Drakes. Those Sand Drakes literally spam Ward Against Melee, which reduces the damage by a lot. So Distracting Blow did definitely help me to see more big, yellow numbers. Note that every area in the game has enemies that have something worth of distracting, rending, and/or wild blowing, so it is normal PvE.

So basically, good utility skills = more high, yellow numbers.

As a small note, usually if I want to have Wild Blow in my team, I'll take a dervish to bring it instead one of my warriors because losing all adrenaline sucks for warriors. I believe you and Marty are both intelligent, and enjoy creating efficient builds to suit your individual styles. I would welcome both of you in a party I was leading. This particular discussion appears to revolve around the issue of what is efficiency. When I first created my warrior, I tried to cover all the bases--defense, self heal, interruption, etc. I used shields up and watch yourself, healing signet and a rez. I tried to work in frenzy, lol. My secondary took 2 or 3 slots on my bar (aura of thorns, vital boon, sig of pious light--gash, no sever...). 14 sword, 11 tactics, rest in secondary--tried for balance. I wanted to be self-sufficient. After perusing the forums and experimenting with some of the build concepts therein, I have come to the conclusion that it is more efficient for me, as a warrior, to rely upon my teammates' and/or heroes' strengths. 16 sword, 13 strength, rest in secondary. So--in the case of your sand drakes, I would extend your reasoning with your dervish/wild blow to justify bringing acolyte jin to interrupt ward against melee so I could use the energy/slot on your bar for an attack or to buff my attack. Marty would probably go even further and experiment with relying totally on monks for healing and/or rezzing too, and so justify 5 attack skills on his bar. A question to discuss would be how, when, why, where and to what extent to rely/trust heroes/teammates, and how the answer to that question affects your build/style of play. I look forward to your comments.

Well met!

Quote: Originally Posted by RoadKill97 I thought first not reply again because there is no point arguing about opinions on what is fun and how to play the game. But then I thought to clarify a few things before we end this.

First, you may have already realized this, but trying to be as efficient as possible is part of my fun. I do get sometimes urge to play less useful builds, but I'll get bored within a few minutes seeing how I'm then more or less deadweight to my team.



Haha...

Only very few skills are really needed in PvE. Instead, you choose skills, which you believe to be useful. Every utility skill I listed is damn useful, even if you only want more damage. For example, yesterday I vanquished Diviner's Ascent, which has a good number of Sand Drakes. Those Sand Drakes literally spam Ward Against Melee, which reduces the damage by a lot. So Distracting Blow did definitely help me to see more big, yellow numbers. Note that every area in the game has enemies that have something worth of distracting, rending, and/or wild blowing, so it is normal PvE.

So basically, good utility skills = more high, yellow numbers.

As a small note, usually if I want to have Wild Blow in my team, I'll take a dervish to bring it instead one of my warriors because losing all adrenaline sucks for warriors. I believe you and Marty are both intelligent, and enjoy creating efficient builds to suit your individual styles. I would welcome both of you in a party I was leading. This particular discussion appears to revolve around the issue of what is efficiency. When I first created my warrior, I tried to cover all the bases--defense, self heal, interruption, etc. I used shields up and watch yourself, healing signet and a rez. I tried to work in frenzy, lol. My secondary took 2 or 3 slots on my bar (aura of thorns, vital boon, sig of pious light--gash, no sever...). 14 sword, 11 tactics, rest in secondary--tried for balance. I wanted to be self-sufficient. After perusing the forums and experimenting with some of the build concepts therein, I have come to the conclusion that it is more efficient for me, as a warrior, to rely upon my teammates' and/or heroes' strengths. 16 sword, 13 strength, rest in secondary. So--in the case of your sand drakes, I would extend your reasoning with your dervish/wild blow to justify bringing acolyte jin to interrupt ward against melee so I could use the energy/slot on your bar for an attack or to buff my attack. Marty would probably go even further and experiment with relying totally on monks for healing and/or rezzing too, and so justify 5 attack skills on his bar. A question to discuss would be how, when, why, where and to what extent to rely/trust heroes/teammates, and how the answer to that question affects your build/style of play. I look forward to your comments.

Quote: Originally Posted by kolakoski So--in the case of your sand drakes, I would extend your reasoning with your dervish/wild blow to justify bringing acolyte jin to interrupt ward against melee so I could use the energy/slot on your bar for an attack or to buff my attack. If I replace a Dragon Slash warrior (one of three) with a Reaper's Sweep dervish, I will lose some single target DPS, one copy of Distracting Blow, and some overall melee survivability - and I will gain some AoE DPS, AoE deep wound, AoE stance killing, and some easy holy damage (if I want). It's a good trade-off.


Now, if I would bring a Broad Head Arrow ranger (it has to be BHA because we're talking about hard mode where enemies have buffs, like halves casting time, so Jin couldn't interrupt anything reliably with normal interrupts), I would gain some very good interrupting (daze rocks when physical units pressure the target), some single target DPS, and... that's pretty much it.

Anyway, because there are only three hero slots...

If I remove Koss, I'll lose: a lot of single targer DPS, one of copy of Distracting Blow, Rending Touch, and another character to block enemies with. It is not a good trade-off.

If I remove Olias, I'll lose: Spiteful Spirit and minions. Again, not a good trade-off.

If I remove Talkora, I'll lose: some healing, on-demand Protective Spirit and Aegis, great deal of hex removal (Divert Hexes), and condition removal. Yet again, it's not a good trade-off.

I didn't bring a BHA ranger to deal with Searing Flames bosses, and I definitely will not bring one to deal with some petty drakes. On a positive side, if Ward Against Melee gets up, it wouldn't effect Jin's damage.

Furthermore, an extra attack wouldn't do much good because I'm already hitting +40 with almost every hit, and an attack buff, like Conjure, won't do because I need my points in Strength for Flail and Enraging Charge, and in Tactics for my shield and "Watch Yourself!". Losing any of those - I'm repeating now myself - would be a bad trade-off.


Final words: If you can do something with a skill slot, don't waste a character slot to do the same thing.