Successful HM hero builds

Racthoh

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

Having hero + henched the majority of missions on hard mode, moving onto vanquishing with similar success, and receiving positive feedback from guildies I thought I would share what I have been using on my both my warrior and monk's heroes. Note that my monk's heroes haven't been used to the same extent as my warrior's heroes, however their worth has shown in both the Underworld and Fissure of Woe hardmode on multiple occasions.

I will start with the monk builds because I just love the way they play and the effectiveness that the heroes have using them.

General Morgahn



Depending on the area, I will swap out Aggressive Refrain for Hexbreaker Aria. Only change I have made thus far when playing with him.

I have had people questioning the use of The Power Is Yours! but having experimented with the paragon elites in various builds it is my favourite by far. The only time the energy loss becomes an issue is when the hero will use it at the end of a battle, and in most cases will not have enough energy at the end of the fight to cycle the Aria and Ballad to maintain his echo. To avoid this, you can disable The Power Is Yours! and micro it as you see fit, disable it as the fight comes to an end, or after he uses it force him to use Lyric of Zeal -> Signet of Synergy (6 energy from leadership, 8 from signet use) followed by Go For The Eyes (another 6 energy return). This will compensate almost the entire loss of the degen caused from the skill.

When forming groups, I tend to favour an all caster team with only one toon with a higher AL to take aggro. There is less of a chance of latching onto multiple groups when everything can attack from a range. It also makes it easier for shouts to hit the entire party, and gain their maximum benefit. Lyric of Zeal unfortunately isn't too helpful for the henchmen as they have no signets (the ones I use anyway) however the other hero builds that I use with my monk do reap the benefits quite nicely.

Between fights, cycle Aria of Restoration and Ballad of Restoration to maintain Aggressive Refrain (the 25 energy is a pain to put up at the start of each fight, ask any paragon).

Razah



Nothing too special here, but it works well nonetheless. Again, as I choose to favour a party with ranged capabilities you can expect the party to be fairly close at all times. Destruction will in most cases hit whatever melee foes you will be facing (or at the very least draw out a few attacks from foes) and Life will provide a possible 100 point party heal every 20 seconds. When battles go ugly and you're the monk those big heals do make a big difference.

Splinter Weapon simply destroys mobs, especially when they all ball around one heavily protted targeted. The ability to pre-cast it on the entire party before engaging a mob makes it superior to Spiteful Spirit and Searing Flames (in my opinion). Considering weapons can't be stripped, the damage isn't affected by armour level, and keeps your elite slot free, Splinter Weapon has a lot going for it. My only beef is when Razah uses it on kiting monk henchmen; you just want to slap him.

Norgu



I play around with his elite a lot depending on the area. Most of the time I stick with Power Leech since the AI is amazing with interrupts and it's on a 10 second recharge (returning 7 energy whenever the hexed foe uses a spell helps keep the energy up). For the later points of Elona and the Fissure of Woe, Expel Hexes works very nice. Abadon and condition heavy areas, Cautery Signet.

The only issue I have with Power Leech, Leech Signet, and Power Drain is that there is no order in which Norgu will use them each fight. He will choose one at random it seems to use on the first spell he sees. It's great that he will interrupt whatever he sees, but you don't get any energy from Power Leech when he keeps using his interrupts on the hexed target! But, as the fight progresses on and the other two interrupts are on recharge this doesn't become as big an issue.

Hex Eater Signet > Deep Freeze. On roughly a half recharge, making it quicker than Deep Freeze recharges it makes those Rain of Terrors easier to deal with. That is unless Norgu doesn't interrupt it. In general it is useful against any AoE hexes, but against water snares it does shine nicely.

Images of Remorse and Clumsiness are there to help with some additional degen/support damage. Everything attacks in PvE, so you can always count on Clumsiness triggering on whatever he uses it on. Even though Images of Remorse lasts a mere 9 seconds, most enemies don't have a lifespan that long anyhow. And if they do, oh well... 5 energy and Norgu has plenty to spare.

Dartakc of Kyi (aka my monk)



My odd little monk build that is workly quite nicely in Hard Mode. If Spiteful Spirit is effective with the increased attack rate of enemies you can only imagine the kind of energy returns I'm getting with Defender's Zeal. Actually, I'm sure you can imagine considering I'm using both Divine Boon and Zealot's Fire on the same bar; 8 energy spells are fun!

Like my heroes, I have a single signet to reap the benefits of Morgahn's Lyric of Zeal. Granted you could use one of the smiting signets but with a 5 second recharge, Signet of Devotion guarentees that it will be available when the shout is used.

The bar is fun to play, as it keeps you alert on both the red bars and spreading your hex as often as possible on targets that aren't being focussed on. Take note that Defender's Zeal requires a successful hit to trigger the energy return, so spells like Aegis and Reckless Haste don't benefit you all that well. If need be, Zealot's Fire can be swapped out for Protective Spirit since it is hard mode and anything beating on a squishy is going to hurt. When playing the bar, and you find energy becoming an issue, canceling Divine Boon is always an option.

My monk has been limited to those three builds as of now, since I don't play with him as much as my warrior since the release of hard mode. My warrior's builds I don't like as much but they get the job done... eventually. I've tweaked them when repeated efforts at a particular task wasn't proving effective (Ruins of Morah HM was a pain to micro and play for masters).

So onto the warrior....

I've tweaked with hero monk bars a lot, thankfully not having to rely on them heavily for the 6 man areas of Tyria and Istan where only one monk henchmen is available. Heroes suck at prot, period. Anyone saying otherwise must have some secret build they're not telling anyone because they don't have a build. They are far better at making the red bars go up vs. making them go down slowly.

I have two bars... the second bar I only used when I had to use both monk heroes (friends, guildies, alliance mates taking henchmen spots).

Dunkoro and Tahlkora




I actually have the elites mixed up as Healing Light would work a lot better on the bar with enchantments.

I tend to disable Vigorous Spirit and use it only on myself as warrior. With an IAS stance, the little bit of healing adds up over the 30 seconds that it lasts for. Shield of Absorption and Healing Seed aren't used all that well on their own, but in those odd times that they are without any microing it does make a world of difference. And they can always be pre-cast as you charge into the fight as a warrior.

I don't like 10 energy skills on my monk's bars; even when I did make them play prot I would give them Expel Hexes over Divert Hexes. Monks are the last member of the party that can run out of energy without there being a complete wipe of the group; make sure they can manage themselves in the long run.

General Morgahn



A combination of offense and defense, favouring the casters more than the physicals since they need more protection. Defensive Anthem is great, even better when he decides not to use it when Lina or Klim just used Aegis. A hard res, damage support, conditional deep wound... he plays the bar as well as I could expect.

Master of Whispes


My minion master who does just that; makes minions. That is all he is there to do... and survive. When it comes to hard mode, the minions have the tendency to die quickly and there won't always be enough bodies. Shambling Horrors guarentee you're getting a two-for-one on any corpses, and Jagged Bones helps to keep the minion count up just as well. Bone Fiends are simply the standard, even with the soul reaping hit and their 25 energy cost, they're just too good to pass up. And again, since I favour the ranged troops they fit in quite nicely.

I don't use a minor blood; one blood skill on the bar and it already lasts longer than its recharge. Vitae rune for some health to make up from the superior death. Flesh of my Flesh is my favourite hard res. 0 recharge, and if whatever he res dies right away he gets the 13 energy from soul reaping.

Zhed Shadowhoof



I don't use Searing Flames, I don't like Searing Flames, I don't know why. I prefer Mark of Rodgort being easy on the energy for when battles go long, and I can swap to a fire weapon, or the majority of henchmen wanding to trigger Mark of Rodgort for constant burning. This has worked for me for all of Hard Mode providing constant degening, and shown a lot of worth in the 4 man areas of Ascalon. And since I usually take Cynn/Orion along, Mark becomes that much more useful.

Razah



Swapped out Shelter for Flesh of My Flesh in Tyria. Enemies don't hit as hard as in Cantha or Elona.

Some people say Shelter dies too quick but it's better than being wiped by a boss's AoE. The recharge does hurt, but you can always cast it well enough ahead of time to have it nearly recharged as you engage. The spirits provide additional damage (or take the attention away from the enemy), and splinter weapon as described before just owns a lot of face.

My warrior himself doesn't use anything special; Dragon Slash with Shield's Up! and Watch Yourself! then attack skills. Nothing special really, just there to deal damage.

Comments and feedback are welcome.

LouAl

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Good info. My heroes do tend to use prot fairly well (not perfect). I use a full prot/divine bar for them and it generally works just fine (RoF, SoA, Shielding Hands, Shield of Regeneration, Mend Ailment, Holy Veil, Smite Hex (3 points), Res - you can also take out hex removal for leech sig and/or power drain). Again, they don't play it perfectly, but they do fairly well.

How well does your Master of Whispers use Taste of Death? I was under the impression that the hero AI didn't like to kill it's minions.

Baba_Beast

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2007

Believe Us

W/

good job with the builds it's very tough to set up a good hero build.

like I said:"some people invent 1 build to farm while others invent 4 different to fit with heroes"

I just want to have some info about what heroes to use with who? What are the builds you use for waht missions? para,monk,mesmer? para,ritu,monk?

and also I want to know if there's a build that works better for me (the human) or you just put any build cause anyway the heroes will own?

Racthoh

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LouAl
How well does your Master of Whispers use Taste of Death? I was under the impression that the hero AI didn't like to kill it's minions.
I've found they will use if they're really, really close to death. Sadly with the spell having a 0 recharge you would have to watch the bar to see if they hero will actually use it. I tend to keep it on there as a "just in case" skill because when the minion master dies in hard mode there is a lot of trouble for the party. Worse case scenario, I micro the skill and heal him before it gets too late.

Quote: Originally Posted by Baba_Beast
I just want to have some info about what heroes to use with who? What are the builds you use for waht missions? para,monk,mesmer? para,ritu,monk? The top three heroes are the three I always use on my monk (monk bar being the 4th). As far as priority is concerned (if there are humans in the group), I would take Morgahn first for the party support, Razah second for the damage support, and Norgu last for the interrupts.

Quote:
and also I want to know if there's a build that works better for me (the human) or you just put any build cause anyway the heroes will own? I still play my warrior as a warrior; my main focus is damage so 16 to weapon mastery is a must. I'll put tactics to 12 for Shield's Up! and Watch Yourself! to provide more passive defenses to the group on top of the paragon support. Since you spots are limited, especially for most of Tyria, you want to provide as much support as possible to those in the healer position without sacrificing your main role. You have 32 skill slots; lots of room to get creative.

Div

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

Great hero bars. Very curious how the heroes decide to use healing light. Do they cast it on anyone, or check for enchants? I'm not sure about the priority system with that skill...

Zena Starlight

Zena Starlight

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

CBE

Mo/

I was wondering when you use your monk and their heros, what henchmen do you use?

rista blodorn

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2006

Aura of Shadows

E/R

Racthoh, just wanted to say thanks for posting the builds. I've been going crazy in hard mode trying to find groups in Tryia. I'm trying to rack up titles on my ele so I used the monk builds along with a basic broad head interrupt ranger in Dragon's Lair today and had no problem completing the mission and bonus. Hardly felt like hard mode at all. Previously with a couple of PuGs we couldn't even get out of the first room. After flaming out a bunch of time on Hell's Precipice w/ incompetent PuGs I think that will be my next conquest just need to figure out what hero/hench combination to take with.

For anyone curious, for Dragon's Lair I ran an earth ele build, brought the hero's mentioned above and for hench I brought the necro, little Thom, the mesmer and Lina. The entire thing actually went smoother then when I took a PuG to get bonus in normal mode about a week ago for my protector title.

Batou of Nine

Batou of Nine

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

California, USA

Angel Sharks [AS] (RiP [KaiZ] T__T")

Mo/E

Well, honestly i like about 75% of what i see on the builds. I definitly see some good choices in there, then still just a little bit i'd change in terms of preference differences...

MM
I have found using Jagged Bones with Shambling Horrors is kind of redundant, and since it is @ 25 sec recharges, the hero is forced to spam Animate Bone fiend more, and taht is 25 energy per spam! I find popping in Bone Horror in place of Shambling helps alleviate energy needs since he now can spam a much lower costing minion with the same functionilty as Shambling via Jagged Bones. Other then that, all his bar (except taste of death) is the same as mine...

Paragon
Overall, fairly good setup for synergy and support. I do like ur blend of offense and defense in the second setup!

Monks
Your smite/prot build looks fun! Probly a good mix to help keep fairly sustained support. Your healing builds im not really a fan of though, in terms of sustainment. Healing Light on a hero i found very draining unless you dedicated a lot into energy management skills/support, which isn't worth it. And the Heal/Prot build is descent, but imho, i don't see it sustaining for very long.

In your pure heal build (Healing Light), i'd suggest dropping Healing Whisper and Healing Touch. One big reason, you never want ur monks wasting time chasing allies just to get close enough for a half range/touch heal, they are really only viable options for a human player. Dwayna's Kiss or Words of Comfort could be an option (dependant on hex/condition heavy areas) or I suggest a bit more for emanagement; options like: Signet of Rejuvenation, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Divine Spirit, etc. This way u may be able to sustain a Healer hero longer. I'd also just use a different Elite. Healing Light is not that big of heal and can be easily be outhealed/spammed more through other non elites. I would choose a LoD, WoH, Blessed Light or even Boon Signet/Signet of removal... Healing light is basically Orison made into an elite unnecessarily adding energy cost and conditions to it.

Your Heal/Prot build (Word of Healing), i would stick in a GoLE + HP or LoD setup along with the protection skills. I find group heal or buffing to any degree is often needed in HM, additionally, if you put in at least one skill for a little energy management, you could stick in Prot Spirit, usually VERY handy in HM. Again, dont bring Healing Touch. I'd actually drop Healing Touch, Orison and Shielding hands in exchange for Sig of Rejuvunation/Divine Spirit, Dwaynas Kiss/Words of Comfort, and Protective Spirit.

All that typing, but it all boils down to, id only change 1 or 2 skills in each heal build, the rest is golden, so not bad! lol Just some ideas

Mesmer
Winner! Gotta love interrups on heros, can never go wrong. Your overall support damage and hex removal ideas seem right on to me!

Ele
Meh, whatever floats ur boat! hehe. SF in PvE just makes things ezier is all. Its all preferrence really. SF + Mark of Rodgort is just plain fun with lots of MS' and other fire sources flying around. That build in general is a basic old skewl nuker...worked then, still prolly works now.


Anywhoo...so tahts my take on your builds I like your ideas and just offered a few suggestions. All in all, just my opinions . I didnt comment on the Rit, cause those builds are actually fairly basic; one more channeling focused, one dmg support with protection support... close to builds i often use

So good job on posting all those builds! I am sure lots will find the ideas enlightening and new players will be given a good direction in which to take with their heros! Thanks! and i hope my opinions were constructive (not destructive )!

Cheers!

EDIT:: Changed my wording on my opinion about ur pure heal build, as i thought it was Blessed Light, not Healing Light. Oops. New opinion about the elite all-together. i would completely change it

rista blodorn

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2006

Aura of Shadows

E/R

Just a quick note to say I used the paragon, mm and mesmer builds to take out ice caves mission and bonus and basically killed everything that moved just for the heck of it. Only real challenge I had was in the area around Evennia there are a lot of roving patrols and my hero/hench group aggro'd extra groups couple of times forcing me to retreat and regroup but if I had studied their movement patterns more closely I would have had no issues completing mission at all. 3 more missions to go to get that guardian title.

Racthoh

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by holymasamune
Great hero bars. Very curious how the heroes decide to use healing light. Do they cast it on anyone, or check for enchants? I'm not sure about the priority system with that skill...
They're not good at Healing Light; they're bad at enchantments. From what I've noticed concerning monks is once your health drops below what their DF bonus would heal for, the AI is informed to make the red bar go back up. In which case, once something starts taking a bit of damage, the hero starts to throw off enchantments on the target since they will heal that little bit of health. If the target continues to take hits to the point where a heal + DF would heal you to full, they'll use one. Heroes tend to be pretty good about not running up to me and using Healing Touch (although Danika is quite fond of doing it in Eternal Grove), thus leaving my hero with one of two options; Orison or Healing Light.

It explains why the first spell from Mhenlo is usually Healing Breeze; you're missing health equal to less than what his DF would heal for but not enough for any of his healing prayers to heal to their full potential. Use Chilblains, equip a double-vamp weapon, and watch how quickly a prot monk will try to keep you up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zena Starlight
I was wondering when you use your monk and their heros, what henchmen do you use? Tyria: Mhenlo, Cynn, Eve, Aidan.
Cantha: Haven't touch it with my monk just yet. Erys Varsburg, Danika, Cynn, and I believe Sheena (the vile henchmen) for Echovald Forest when I do. I'm not familiar enough with the luxon area, but from what I remember Argo, Daemon, Sister Tai... and whatever that earth henchmen's name is. I really hate not being able to use the ritualist henchmen because Razah loves to overwrite every weapon spell with Splinter Weapon.
Elona: Sogolon, Cynn, Herta, Mhenlo.

Quote: Originally Posted by rista blodorn After flaming out a bunch of time on Hell's Precipice w/ incompetent PuGs I think that will be my next conquest just need to figure out what hero/hench combination to take with. 16 water with ward against harm, 9 earth for ward against elements/melee, attunements for earth and water, GOLE, Ice Spear, and a res sig. I think that was the big key to victory in that mission, 10% morale boosts across the board.

As their are 0 monks in this mission, you simply have to have enough damage to power through Strip Enchantment, Aura of the Luch, and Shadow Strike from the titans. Pack loads of defense; there is a lot of damage being tossed around.

Quote: Originally Posted by Batou of Nine
MM All he really does is stand around and wand so his energy is never really an issue. I wish he wouldn't use Jagged Bones on the shamblings, but like Splinter Weapon, in the times when it is used correctly it helps keep the minion count up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batou of Nine
Monks The half-range/touch isn't so much of a concern since I always bring along a full team capable of doing their job from a range. The only one who can't be hit as a result is myself, but I'm rarely the first one to start dropping because I carry the highest armour level. Razah drops Union for a party wide Shielding Hands, and Shelter for a party wide Protective Spirit; the need for spamming those healing spells is lessened with his support. One thing I should've noted; I never used my monk heroes from the crystal desert onward in Tyria, haven't attempted the Canthan island as of yet, and Istan in generally wasn't very difficult. The only time I've used my monk heroes in an 8 man situation was Istan where there was only one monk henchmen available for use. As such, in the 6 man zones, LoD doesn't prove to be highly effective; if the bars are dropping that quickly a wipe is emminent.

The bars worked where I needed them to, otherwise the henchmen filled the monk roles enough to get the job done (so far anyway ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batou of Nine
Ele Were I to play with another human using SF, I would consider making the change. Liquid Flame, Fireball, and Phoenix supported by Mind Blast's energy returns work well as the only ele in the group.

Sun Fired Blank

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2007

I've managed to come up with a decent hero setup for every area that I've vanquished except for Tasca's Demise. Has anyone found a hero / henchman combination that quickly deals with that area? I managed to clear it after much pain, but I haven't figured out a hero setup that deals with the selection of dwarves because their skill selection is completely abusive on hard mode, and there are several very large groups that can't be pulled apart.

Racthoh

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank
I've managed to come up with a decent hero setup for every area that I've vanquished except for Tasca's Demise. Has anyone found a hero / henchman combination that quickly deals with that area? I managed to clear it after much pain, but I haven't figured out a hero setup that deals with the selection of dwarves because their skill selection is completely abusive on hard mode, and there are several very large groups that can't be pulled apart. You can do a funny pull on that really large group of stone summit (think it's around 10 of them with at least two dolyak masters) and get them all stuck against a wall. You have to pull them our of their little gathering hole, and run back to the entrance to the citadel. When the group breaks aggro, they should be stuck on the mound of snow.

If I'm thinking of the same group as you.

Evilsod

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

I always prefered to just make Morgahn pure Motivation/Leadership. In the end he spends half his time casting chants anyway, so you might aswell make him just spend all his time doing it with increased benefits. Usually give him Major Motiv/Leadership for 15 Motiv/14 Leader.

To kill large mobs of Dolyaks/Stone Summit. Traps + SF eles + MM. When doing it with 2 friends (so more SF eles) the entire mob w/ 3 Dolyaks died in about 15-20 seconds.

MMs i've gone back to using Flesh Golem and a load of melee. I might change to OoU but i'm not sure i trust heros to use it without suiciding. I give him Dark Bond anyway, had several party wipes where MoW survived just because they couldn't get through Dark Bond ^^

Why do you use Signet of Return? I would've thought Norgu would've been more use given something that Fast Cast actually effects, i tend to stick with Restore Life and give him Mantra of Recovery with some general Dom/Interrupts. Hex heavy areas he gets Shatter Hex/Hex Eater Vortex to play with, made Flesh Golems and Drakes (w/ Ward against Harm) in Perdition Rock a complete joke.

ArKaiN

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

Lotus Branca[Lbr]

Mo/Me

If an elite skill reads "The party gains 8 energy. You lose 20 a second for the next 10 seconds." I'm not using it, ever. No , not on heroes, not on me, not on minipets, not in anything.

ZenRgy

ZenRgy

Zookeeper

Join Date: Jul 2005

Australian Discussion Posse HQ - Glorious leader

҉ ̵̡̢̢̛̛̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟&#

N/E

I like [skill]"Never Surrender!"[/skill][skill]"Never Give Up!"[/skill] and [skill]"Stand Your Ground!"[/skill]

Over the ballads/arias, the command line is still very useful.

-.-

-.-

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArKaiN
If an elite skill reads "The party gains 8 energy. You lose 20 a second for the next 10 seconds." I'm not using it, ever. No , not on heroes, not on me, not on minipets, not in anything. You're thinking health-wise, energy-wise...it's different. For energy, each pip is 1 energy for each 3 seconds.

Racthoh

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
Why do you use Signet of Return? I would've thought Norgu would've been more use given something that Fast Cast actually effects, i tend to stick with Restore Life and give him Mantra of Recovery with some general Dom/Interrupts. Hex heavy areas he gets Shatter Hex/Hex Eater Vortex to play with, made Flesh Golems and Drakes (w/ Ward against Harm) in Perdition Rock a complete joke. In his first version, I had him constantly loaded with Cautery Signet so the only option for a hard res was to have Signet of Return. I should probably make the change to restore life or res chant, something along those lines instead of just being too lazy to change his secondary.

Nightfall was the first time I've ever had the option to play the MM role since I've never played my necromancer all that much (the variety of PvE builds isn't too interesting, and never thought of something myself that was fun). So coming into the role I actually had a choice on elites to toy with, and I've heard a lot of negative feedback on the usefulness of the golem. Before the SR nerf, I was using Icy Viens, Toxic Chill, and in the event I'm on NM I go to using Reaper's Mark to make up for the energy cap. The bar I've given him doesn't require him to do much but make minions and keep himself alive, and with all the extra energy floating around might as well give him something to do right? From what I've seen of MM's using OoU, it's hell being the monk to heal all that. Use vampiric horrors for all the monks out there.

As I tend to use that paragon for monking, my health wouldn't be below 75% (high health and a shield offhand so the AI doesn't go for me first heehee) but I would be the one who needs the energy. The ballad/arias benefit the whole party regardless, and I haven't tried the command shouts to see how effective the AI handles them. Granted there are some areas where the +health regen from Never Surrender! would be very useful.

Batou of Nine

Batou of Nine

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

California, USA

Angel Sharks [AS] (RiP [KaiZ] T__T")

Mo/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
The half-range/touch isn't so much of a concern since I always bring along a full team capable of doing their job from a range. The only one who can't be hit as a result is myself, but I'm rarely the first one to start dropping because I carry the highest armour level. Razah drops Union for a party wide Shielding Hands, and Shelter for a party wide Protective Spirit; the need for spamming those healing spells is lessened with his support. One thing I should've noted; I never used my monk heroes from the crystal desert onward in Tyria, haven't attempted the Canthan island as of yet, and Istan in generally wasn't very difficult. The only time I've used my monk heroes in an 8 man situation was Istan where there was only one monk henchmen available for use. As such, in the 6 man zones, LoD doesn't prove to be highly effective; if the bars are dropping that quickly a wipe is emminent.

The bars worked where I needed them to, otherwise the henchmen filled the monk roles enough to get the job done (so far anyway ). Mmm, ya. No wonder those monk bars are doing ok, you really havent done anything too hard with them (at least from what i gathered from waht you mentioned above). All normal mode? Tyria NM = easy, Istan NM = very easy. My bars and suggestions were more in terms of when in heavy pressure in Hard Mode, or simply harder normal mode areas like Realm of Torment, Desolation, Fire Islands, Eternal Grove and beyond, etc.

If you HAVE tried in those hard situations, then i guess it works for ya! Otherwise, i would say in my humble opinion, those bars couldn't/wouldn't be able to handle too much pressure, even with Razah's protective spirits....

Anywhoo, just some clarification on what my suggestions were in regards too. hehe. Still nice write-up!

cheers.

Evilsod

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

Whats your point? I never use my monk heros in 8 man areas if i get access to 2 monks. I've succesfully vanquished Dreadnought/Lornars with Alesia and Lina (or is it Mhenlo from DWC... forgot). You get much more from heros if you use them offensively, the offensive capabilities of heros far surpass the capabilities of the hench. While the healing capabilities obviously do too, you get much further by killing things more effectively than hoping to survive them for longer.

Course this only applies to Hero/Hench teams. But unless i desperately need a bonder i'm leaving the hero monks at home.

Solus Spartan

Solus Spartan

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

Australia

[Lawl]

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
Whats your point? I never use my monk heros in 8 man areas if i get access to 2 monks. I've succesfully vanquished Dreadnought/Lornars with Alesia and Lina (or is it Mhenlo from DWC... forgot). You get much more from heros if you use them offensively, the offensive capabilities of heros far surpass the capabilities of the hench. While the healing capabilities obviously do too, you get much further by killing things more effectively than hoping to survive them for longer.

Course this only applies to Hero/Hench teams. But unless i desperately need a bonder i'm leaving the hero monks at home. /Agree. Hero mosts have terrible A.I

Free Wind

Free Wind

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

Moscow

W/

I've tried everything to make Tahlkora use Signet of Devotion and she never ever used it.
Even if it's the only skill on her bar - she'll let you die from anything (degen, direct damage, environment effects, anything)

Racthoh, can you confirm your hero monks use it?

Racthoh

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

The only monk build there with SoD was the bar I was controlling, I could never get my own heroes to use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batou of Nine
My bars and suggestions were more in terms of when in heavy pressure in Hard Mode, or simply harder normal mode areas like Realm of Torment, Desolation, Fire Islands, Eternal Grove and beyond, etc. I guess my advice would be for everyone to just use the henchmen monks then; no need to worry yourself to death over a monk bar for an area that they can work well enough in. Realm of Torment; each mission hero/henched first try with masters (the exception being Gates of Madness because I forgot to capture the Balthazar Shrine ><), Fire Islands ditto all done with one attempt, and I got Poisoned Outcrops out of the way being vanquished (hearing a number of people talk about the difficulty there) but managed it with the henchmen monks for all of those areas. Eternal Grove... had to take a second human, but we still used the henchmen monks to fulfill that role.

To clarify, I've only used those monks on Istan, up to and including Crystal Desert, and Minister Cho's Estate (Zen Daijun has the rit and monk henchmen) on Hard Mode. I never used my hero monks when there were two henchmen available to fulfill the healing roll.

Evilsod

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

I thought they used SigoDev when they were on low energy only? Never given it them to test it out but i'm sure i heard that somewhere.

Free Wind

Free Wind

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

Moscow

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
I thought they used SigoDev when they were on low energy only? Never given it them to test it out but i'm sure i heard that somewhere. To my observation, heroes AI is written in such a way that they always prefer energy based skills over signets and adrenaline skills and they will never use signets if they have energy and ready-to-use energy spells. But as I’ve seen it, hero will never use Signet Devotion even if it’s the only skill in their skill bar. Looks like a bug to me

Jedi Battousai

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

[HEAT]

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
MMs i've gone back to using Flesh Golem and a load of melee. I might change to OoU but i'm not sure i trust heros to use it without suiciding. I give him Dark Bond anyway, had several party wipes where MoW survived just because they couldn't get through Dark Bond ^^ I haven't had any problems running OoU with Master. I usually run Jagged Bones in areas with not as many corpses and/or some undead mobs but OoU everywhere else where I don't need to make sure minions stay alive since there enough bodies. Basically, you can run OoU and your AI monks will be able to pick up any stray saccing. You can also give him healing breeze or mystic regen depending on how many enchants you use with him to counter the saccing. You may need to manually cast them but the heroes are generally smart enough to use them to counter the sac.

LouAl

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Wind
To my observation, heroes AI is written in such a way that they always prefer energy based skills over signets and adrenaline skills and they will never use signets if they have energy and ready-to-use energy spells. But as I’ve seen it, hero will never use Signet Devotion even if it’s the only skill in their skill bar. Looks like a bug to me
They do like to use the energy skills... Your heroes will use SoD however, BUT they must be at 0 energy. I only noticed this when a hero monk rebirthed someone and immediately cast Sig of Devo on them. After some testing after that, it appears to be the only time that I can come up with that they will use it. The sad thing is that if they are at 0 energy and need to heal someone, it is likely that the 2 second cast is much to long and the size of the heal is much to small. Oh well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rista blodorn
...Hell's Precipice w/ incompetent PuGs I think that will be my next conquest just need to figure out what hero/hench combination to take with. Not to hijack the thread or anything, but the incompetence/total lack of people in Hell's Precipice is a little sad. I put up this thread and then started reading through this one.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10166981
It is a decent hero setup to get through Hell's, if a bit uncreative since all my heroes were set up essentially the same. It made very easy work of the bonus (I didn't try to complete the mission because I had already done it al long time ago, but I can't imagine that it would be very difficult with this setup)

Batou of Nine

Batou of Nine

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

California, USA

Angel Sharks [AS] (RiP [KaiZ] T__T")

Mo/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
The only monk build there with SoD was the bar I was controlling, I could never get my own heroes to use it.



I guess my advice would be for everyone to just use the henchmen monks then; no need to worry yourself to death over a monk bar for an area that they can work well enough in. Realm of Torment; each mission hero/henched first try with masters (the exception being Gates of Madness because I forgot to capture the Balthazar Shrine ><), Fire Islands ditto all done with one attempt, and I got Poisoned Outcrops out of the way being vanquished (hearing a number of people talk about the difficulty there) but managed it with the henchmen monks for all of those areas. Eternal Grove... had to take a second human, but we still used the henchmen monks to fulfill that role.

To clarify, I've only used those monks on Istan, up to and including Crystal Desert, and Minister Cho's Estate (Zen Daijun has the rit and monk henchmen) on Hard Mode. I never used my hero monks when there were two henchmen available to fulfill the healing roll. Ah, i see. I really wasn't all that worried about general hero monking. I in fact also use the monk henchies almost exclusively when i am 8 manning alone. The ONLY time i use hero monks are when i am playing with at least one other person who can also bring heros...

LoL, i guess i should also clarify that my modification ideas were simply for player/hero teams, not when a person is 8-manning with only hero/henchies. The setup focuses on general pressure relief in high pressure situations for groups of 2 players or more that need to rely on healer Ai. anywhoo, just a background to my ideas that i didnt quite clarify correctly.

Again, great guide! A good general base for players.

Cheers

Voltar

Voltar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

My dog let's me crash at her place.

POB

R/

thanks evilsod for making me not feel like an idiot for using the golem (at least in hm). i also second leaving the healing to henchmen in 6 or 8-man areas (because dps is way more important to make each fight shorter and save the monks' energy). generally hench monks only pose a problem if you're melee and you drag them up front with you. prot hench do some silly crap though since factions (where they run up to shortbow range...why do they do that?).

thanks for posting a full-hero set of builds. that should help out the frustrated and stir some ideas in the more experienced players. i've never used norgu (since the quest for him and goren irritate me and they're not required to further the quests). that's pretty much what i'd expect him to be good at since i really hate the ai use of mesmer spells.

pingu666

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

guildhall

[DETH]

i use the healer henchies alot, even when i was going for ledgendary survivor on my warrior, only hadto run away once i think :O.

mow/olias use blood ritual really really well, so its well worth chucking that on there bars

payne

payne

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

england (currently located on the south coast)

R/

/agree hench/hero AI is aweful....

i was just wondering what hench and heroes you would reccomend to take when it comes to vanquishing Istan?

if you could tell me i'd be really grateful..

Porkchop Sandwhiches

Porkchop Sandwhiches

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fishing Village in Wizard's Folly

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by pingu666
mow/olias use blood ritual really really well, so its well worth chucking that on there bars Also, I don't know if anyone else has said this either, but I make my MM bring holy veil so to help with hex removal (seeing how they cancel veil right away and will only use smite hex near mobs). And when I bring monk heros sometimes I make them /Me with some inspiration interrupts like power drain or leech signet because they are amazing at interrupting, lol.

ibex333

ibex333

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Brooklyn, NY

[EYE]

Rt/A

@OP

Now when you given us these great hero builds, why not give us some combinations? What's your most used combo? 2 monks 1 war? 2 necs 1 para?

I don't spend as much time as you thinking about this stuff so I don't know what to do. Call me lazy, but if you were nice enough to give the builds, I bet you're nice enough to give combos. Thanx in advance!

Evilsod

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

In my long line of completely overbuffing my melee attackers i've moved onto using Razah along with Dunkoro...

15 Channeling, (12+3)
12 Restoration, (11+1)
7 Spawning, (6+1)

[skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Warmonger's Weapon[/skill][skill]Offering of Spirit[/skill][skill]Mend Body and Soul[/skill][skill]Spirit Light[/skill][skill]Life[/skill][skill]Recuperation[/skill][skill]Flesh of my Flesh[/skill]

Just turn off Warmongers/Splinter... so he doesn't spam them randomly. Only really worth using if you have a Scythe or the usual range of multi-hit axe skills. Warmongers if you feel you need to decimate a few casters and Splinter Weapon works perfectly if you bodyblock things properly round a corner letting you destroy the entire mob in 2 attacks.

Course this isn't for everyone... i've just found completely overbuffing my Dervish and letting minions take the hits and blow up works like a charm for killing pretty much everything... backfires nicely though when you try to kill 3 Azure Shadows and end up taking about 210 damage each attack.

YunSooJin

YunSooJin

Pyromaniac

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/W

If Racthoh is still responding to this thread: What build did you use for 4man HM in Ascalon? The grawls wont farking die.

Avatara

Avatara

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by YunSooJin
If Racthoh is still responding to this thread: What build did you use for 4man HM in Ascalon? The grawls wont farking die. As a warrior I'm using the ele, ritualist and the monk. However areas like the eastern fronier really need 6 players if you ask me...

I changed to DS with enduring harmony myself in order to get enough damage to kill the healers.

karunpav

karunpav

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

I just went hammer with Backbreaker, should be even easier now with the buff to FGJ, just keep the monks on their butts while you pull the two grawls to him and cast SS on both. They blow up.

Novalon

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

W/

These are wonderful builds, and I have used them (or some derivation) to play through a few areas. If I had any excellent builds to add, I would post them myself, but I still have bugs to work out of my own before I feel I can post them.

Seriously though, this thread deserves to be at the top.

jimmyboveto

jimmyboveto

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

US

Legion of Avalon

W/

Nice builds there. I have been going through Cantha doing some vanquishing and HM missions. I have especially grown fond of paragons and jagged bones mm's. Oh ya, and there's one hero build thats totally hax for HM...


Dunkoro
----------
Protection Prayers-16
divine favor-13

Life barrier
Blessed Signet

So ya, dissable both skills, have dunk put LB up on every person in the party, and then enable blessed signet. Even though he'll have -3 ernergy degen, blessed signet will allow him to keep his bar full for the whole time. 50% damage reduction for the whole team is incredibly cheap, especially when most areas don't have enchant removal in PvE.