Hard mode and the loot - what am I missing?

So I finally finished a campaign (Nightfall) and happily ventured off in hard mode, thinking my chances of finding some decent loot had just improved dramatically. Armed with lockpicks I went into both the Desolation and the Mirror of Lyss and slayed away. But the loot I get is awful! Not just the drops but the loot from the chests as well. For instance, I've found several sundering mods, but not one of them have had more than a 15% chance of succes - at least before, when hunting in the Desolation or Vabbi, I could be reasonably sure that a mod like that would have at least 19% chance of success. This is just one example but the rest of the stuff I've picked up have had the same problem. The weapons I pick up aren't much to speak of either - even if I find something good, I can be sure it will have a minimum requirement of 12, more often 13.

Granted, this is from a sample of using up maybe 20 lockpicks - still, considering the price of them I'd like to know if I am doing something wrong before I spend my meagre resources buying more of them.

Am I hunting in the wrong places, even though it is hard mode? Or did I just miss the memo about the rewards of hard mode being this terrible?

welll....imo the rewards for HM just aren't worth it...although gold items do seem to drop a bit more often....they are generally crap....i have vanquished almost all of tyria and haven't had one Great Drop yet....numerous golds from drops and chests...but all junk..or mostly junk...really sucks unless you are a 55 monk or some such and run certain areas....but playing as a team and taking the time to vanquish an area...is very unsatisfying as far as rewards go...maybe they should up the Gold reward for vanquishing an area...i mean i cleared Ice Flow (i think it was) in HM and got like 700g come on...that blows...i spent 6k in lock picks..and made 3k in loot/gold coins...not counting the 1 junk gold item that i will sell for wisdom title seekers...so a net loss of -2k....is totally bogus........although i continue to do the areas for the challenge...it is fast losing its appeal.

In *my* opinion, 'worth' is irrelevant as it's entirely subjective. I love hard mode. In answer to the OP about chest hunting, I'd have to say that while hard mode may have a higher % chance to get a gold item from a chest it also has a MUCH higher chance that the lockpick will break. Personally I don't chestrun in HM, I think it's a waste of money. I open chests in areas I vanquish, but I'm gonna suggest that chestrunning in HM is going to lose you money (unless you perhaps already have treasure hunter 50). I'm not suggesting you don't do HM at all, just that chestrunning may not be any different (aside from a slightly higher gold % which you'll pay for @ 1.25-1.5k/lockpick). HM is good for solo farming (with somewhat limited build options), vanquishing is fun, missions are a blast (with humans) but I'd stick to Mirror of Lyss or whatever in normal mode for chestrunning. Rewards are FAR greater in HM than in NM, I typically get 1-3 gold items as drops for vanquishing a medium sized area (in 8 party) which is about 1-2.9 more than my average for normal mode... plus tons more gold drops.

It's called Loot Failing. It has far surpassed even anet's expectations.

KANE

I don't know what loot failing means - could you explain?

And in reply to lennymon, I certainly agree that the gold drops are much more frequent in hard mode than in normal mode - I just don't see the point of it if the loot that drops is terrible (which it has been in my experience so far). And as you yourself point out, the (very expensive) lockpicks have a high risk of breaking - to me that would indicate just one more factor that should play in and make the drops actually worth it.

But from the replies so far I gather I shouldn't expect things to improve and that my time and money would be better spent in normal mode?

Loot Failing is my play on the words, "Loot Scaling" that anet has ingeniously thrown at the farming populous. Just being sarcastic instead of being pissy about it this time.

KANE

Welcome to Guild Wars, land of you getting effed in the ay.

loot scaling has absolutely nothing to do with chest running, topic...

I dunno if it's what you are looking for, but lockpicks DO survive better in normal mode, check out the lockpick article on wiki for hard numbers.

I'm not actually complaining about or trying to debate the survival rate of lockpicks. I'm simply trying to find out why hunting for treasure and loot seems to be so much less profitable in hard mode than in normal mode, when logic would seem to dictate it should be the other way around.

But I guess I got my answer already - that the treasure hunting in hard mode is just not worth it.

I might also point out that even in HM, in my experience drop quality seems to vary area to area somewhat, with significantly lower quality in the (shall we say) areas which are heavily farmed by persons (cough*macrobots*cough) who are online all the time.

In my opinion, HM loot is better then Normal Mode loot.

The thing is, it sounds to me like the OP just wants uber rare req 8 15^50 weapons to fall into his lap. He's wondering why he hasn't found a elemental sword yet from all his chest running. These things are still going to be rare, even in HM. If rare items become too common, then they aren't rare anymore and will have no value.

My opinion of Hard Mode is it's a waste of time. Literally it's just a distraction for people until the next expansion. It's an incredible waste of time if you're a dedicated pve'er considering they're expecting you to waste almost twice the amount of time you've already spent. I don't know what it's like for farmers because farming just gets stupid after a certain amount.

I've vanquished 10 areas or so and so far have gotten 2 gold drops total. If I was in some pitiful newbie areas vanquishing I wouldn't complain but I'm not. Locked Chests are garbage and isn't worth the price of the lockpicks. Lockpicks are garbage considering they're dependant on a completely retarded title, Lucky, and Treasure Hunter (character only). So far I, lucky 1 & treasure 2, have had worse luck of keeping my lockpicks vs. someone with zero ranks in both titles.

There's nothing new or interesting for me in Hard Mode. Learn to pvp and that's when GW truly turns interactive.

While the OP may be thinking more specifically, I think that HM and loot scaling as a whole will contribute to the economic destruction of Guild Wars, and eventual leap to game-communism.

So far I've opened about 20 or so chest while LB/SS farming south of the Ruins of Salahja (or whatever the correct spelling is) and it was rare I didn't get a gold and rare that the gold didn't have at least one max mod, usually two, and sometimes all three. That's a better rate than anyplace I have done in normal mode.

However, chest running is better in vabbi because you get better than half the drops and the keys cost over half as much.

*shrug* I think the issue is that you can not get chest running in HM to scale with normal mode - if the drops were that good they would be too common and suddenly become "not good". Look at the Dead Sword for a perfect example of that. Lockpicks and HM chest runs are useful if you have a high enough lucky or treasure hunter title or you are doing HM anyway - might as well open the chests as you go. All it takes it that one great elemental sword to drop (I got one from the Graven monoliths while LB/SS farming, but it is req 12, not inscribable, and no modifier - I assume not worth bothering with though I haven't checked, right now Koss seems to like it though).

It's cost are in line with elite area keys (especially with the chance to retain them) and the drops are in line with them. But then, they never have really been great on drops either (unless you are looking for a very specific rare skin).

He also specifically mentioned drops, nimrod.

KANE

That's quite an assumption to make, especially considering my post didn't say one word about skins, rare or not. In the simplest terms possible, I was just wondering why the drops I find in hard mode are WORSE (not better and not equal, just flat out worse) than what I find in normal mode while hunting in the same area. Call me a whiner, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

I must just have increadible luck then. I've gotten several very nice golds with perfect or near perfect mods. I have 2 20/20 sunder strings, a perfect 15 in stance hammer, several near perfect caster wands, offhands, & staffs, & so many greens I've been begging allinace members to take them off my hands. Only thing I can't seem to get my hands on are passage scrolls to UW, (have 2 for FoW). And before anyone starts say crap like "well I don't farm 10 hrs a day" I don't either, 1 hr, somedays 2, depending on how long I'm on before other guildies start logging in.

I have no trouble playing smart enough to afford the items and gear I want for my characters, but I have to say this... After two years of play, I would love... just for once... to get a drop that was good enough that I would actually use it (on my characters, not my hero's).

So having said that, i'm not very impressed with HM drops or chests so far. This was brought up in a topic several months ago, but basically I am happy with the NUMBER of gold drops I get. Rare should be Rare. But I have become quite frustrated at the quality. If I get another gold chakram or cane I think I will snap. I don't even have a freaking mesmer!

myself and 2 guildies did 4 LB/SS show of force runs in Sulfurous wastes during the double points weekend. just us, no henchies/heros. In one of the runs we also vanquished the area. We got a total of(including chests) 24 gold, 17 purples, 6 elite tomes, 13 tomes, 3 passage scrolls, and 3 greens(hajkor's and 2 Alem's Remedy) The best gold was a Q12 15^50 hp +30(no prefix) Sephis Axe I got from a chest in the mdidle of an awakened group. Rest of them weren't too great a couple desolation swords and desolation maul.

The first chest I ever oped in Hard Mode was in Traveler's Vale and it gave me a max damage Q9 15^50 Gold Spatha and i retained my lockpick. My Guildy, while we were vanquishing Dragon's Gullet, got a gold max dmg Tribal Axe from a chest after i gave him the lockpick that opened it... can't tell you how many times i have given a guildy a key/lockpick and they got something great from it while i got a crappy purple... (but im not bitter...) I can still rub it in their face tho that while running a kid through the horde of darkness quest, I opened the only chest we found on the way to the siege wurms and out popped a gold Q11 Elementlal Sword(this was like 4 months ago). what made it even better, it came with a 20/20 mod(ew, but other ppl seem to like it) hp+30 and 15^50. I shat myself, then gave it to a guildy and told him to customize immediately before i change my mind...

In conclusion, i don't chest hunt by any means, at least not anymore, but i always make sure i have keys/lockpicks when i am in high end areas, you never know what may pop out. I agree with Mourn that the drops are more frequent but the quality is waaaay down. aside from the drops mentioned above, for the most part the drops i got were Gold, but low quality(near perfect mods, point of max dmg, crappy inherent mods) I love hard mode. I'm not in it for the drops, I'm in it for the challenge and boy are some of those areas tough, especially the lower level areas. I have one guildmate who is interested in vanquishing, unfortuanately.(most of my guild are just casual players and dont enjoy HM) Fortunately me and my vanquishing buddy have really good characters(me a dervish, he a mesmer, echo empathy + backfire owns ) and all their heroes have max equipment and the best skills(all elites unlocked for both of us)

Don't open chests in HM. It's not worth it. Loot from monsters is much nicer, on the other hand...