27 May 2007 at 01:15 - 1
Been playing about with Guildies/PuGs in HM, and this is the build that seems to work well for me. I offer it for those who are interested, but I'm also open to constructive criticism....
Template is OgBDkqq8O4ivKsAZ4LKG+ZaB
Atts are:-
14 Fire (10+3+1)
11 Earth (10+1)
12 ES (11+1)
[skill]Fire Attunement[/skill][skill]Stoneflesh Aura[/skill][skill]Ward Against Melee[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Mark of Rodgort[/skill][skill]Fire Storm[/skill][skill]Mind Blast[/skill][skill]Aura of Restoration[/skill]
Weapon is a Hale Fire Staff of Enchanting, though most any half decent set will do.
Part logic is....Stoneflesh+Ward helps survivability for yourself and fellow players (ward can be subbed for another dependant on area specific mobs).
MoR+MB will deal with energy management and deal damage/keep burning active.
Fire Storm has two functions - a) damage and MoR burning trigger b) anti-pressure - bunched mobs may scatter, but that's not always a bad thing - lets healers heal, rezzers rez, and they will come back to get more damage and trigger MoR burning
Glyph is there to keep energy high for MB and AoR is there for self heal (can be subbed for any sort of res if required)
I don't claim this is the dogs b*ll*cks, but is works fine in most of my vanquishing exploits and in HM missions such as THK.
Feel free to use (or not as the case may be).
27 May 2007 at 08:57 - 2
Nope, can't see any reason to run this, over, say, Searing Flames... The damage output is pretty terrible, and if you want melee defense... why not run an Aegis chain? Tbh, I rarely run many defensive skills outside of solo-farming nowadays, because a prot monk or bonder is simply better, and lets you, the ele, focus on killing.
I can't see any way to help this build without completely obliterating it and starting all over... Though, if I'm the sole ele in the group, I'd probably run Mind Blast if I was Fire.
And personally, I'd drop AoR altogether. It sucks hard as a self-heal. I'd take a res, probably [skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]
Hmm...
12 + 1 + 3 Fire
9 + 1 Energy
9 Prot (9 second breakpoint)
[skill]mind blast[/skill][skill]immolate[/skill][skill]fireball[/skill][skill]rodgort's invocation[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]aegis[/skill] then [skill]teinai's heat[/skill] or [skill]flame djinn's haste[/skill] and possibly a res of some kind, Res sig or Rebirth for near-wipes.
28 May 2007 at 18:54 - 3
I understand your caveats. Remember though - this is not a pure damage output build. What it does is two things.
1) Ups your survivablility. You are no good face down waiting for a res and in HM, in my experience, mobs more aggressively target the mid/backline squishies. Aegis is a fine spell, but I can keep the ward almost constantly up.
2) The damage is not instant/spike damage, however, constant burning, with MoR and either Fire Storm/Mind Blast or even wanding is a powerful tool in PvE. as I also said, Fire Storm acts as anti-pressure. Cast it on a something that's keyed in on a monk or other backline char, and it will cause the enemy to break aggro, run off, and more than likely come back. That's time to heal, retreat or do whatever you need. With the 10 secs effect, and even better, if MoR is active on the returning enemy, it's a nice scenario
In PUG's the chances of everyone having the ideal build is slim, so yes, this is a compromise, but I've tried it, and it does work.
29 May 2007 at 00:29 - 4
You know, this is exactly what I'd run if I didn't know Elemetalists are supposed to kite.....
Anyway, run two of 3 water spells for snaring and you should be fine. Foes getting to ya? freeze'em and move your fragile, 60-armor, no shield-bearing ass away.
29 May 2007 at 06:49 - 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArKaiN
You know, this is exactly what I'd run if I didn't know Elemetalists are supposed to kite.....
Anyway, run two of 3 water spells for snaring and you should be fine. Foes getting to ya? freeze'em and move your fragile, 60-armor, no shield-bearing ass away.
Oh lol yes, I love kiting. I contribute soooo much to a team while I'm frantically running around avoiding all the nasties.........
29 May 2007 at 07:37 - 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouse at Large
Oh lol yes, I love kiting. I contribute soooo much to a team while I'm frantically running around avoiding all the nasties.........
Because you contribute just as much by standing there like a brick while things beat on you?
As a general rule, self defensive stances and spells are not that useful, especially when you have wards and eruption available to you. Your survivability is very nice and all until the rest of your team has died and only you remain. What are you going to do, stone dagger everything to death?
29 May 2007 at 07:55 - 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouse at Large
Oh lol yes, I love kiting. I contribute soooo much to a team while I'm frantically running around avoiding all the nasties.........
SO damn true.
A monk, preferably human, perhaps tahlkora, sat on the edge of the map maintaining Life Barrier on everyone and Life Bond on the fragile classes is more than enough to reduce the damage from Hard Mode allowing a squishy ele to stand in the middle and cause mayhem. Gyala Explorable, HM, was fun last night
31 May 2007 at 17:35 - 8
Five months of breaking from guild wars, and I see eles still haven't gotten away from the fire line in any regard.
31 May 2007 at 17:54 - 9
That's because, five months down the line, PvE is still a matter of wiping out big mobs as fast and efficiently as possible, and Fire is still the best at mass AoE.
And it won't change, not untill A-Net realises that smaller, intelligent mobs with strategy and good skill bars are more of a challenge than 700 uber-powered dumbasses that will happily pile on a tank, allowing SF to tear them to shreds in a jiffy.
31 May 2007 at 18:32 - 10
I didn't mean to cause a stink or anything, sorry. I'm just amazed that we haven't been able to spread our horizons. I won't argue that fire can dish the damage better than any class in the game. I can't argue that simply because its the truth.
My quarrel with fire is the lack of defense.
In Hard Mode, against these mobs that are unkitable without a speed debuff and have jacked up damage, something has to be stopping it. Bonder, yes, in some situations yes I would use such. You leave yourself with a serious risk though, as enchantments can be stripped easily since nightfall. And why have one class completely devoted to protection and basically run with 7 players when you could have all 8 players and each with their own damage mitigation?
For example, air provides a killer melee defense with high powered armor penetrating attacks to breach the solid defenses of hard mode creatures that small ticks of AoE can't touch. Blinding Flash and Enervating Charge are priceless additions to any group. Gale used to be, but the nerf bat swung while I was gone.
Then there's the earth line. After vanquishing cantha and elona, I came to one conclusion, the elementalist in hard mode hit...well...hard. My friend that I vanquished with used Broad Head Arrow, but it wasn't enough to stop the mobs of 4 to 5 eles. Earth wards provide excellant means when air isn't enough. Ward against the Elements dropped an afflicted Mind burn to 41*2 damage to a 60 armor target, when it was hitting for 80 or 90 times 2. Ward Melee kept the warriors at some distance (ebon hawk and weakness helped too) and ruined assassins spikes. Finally, Ward Stability put the turtles of the jade sea and the jade elementalist of cantha in their place, as their dragon stomps could no longer interupt or knockdown our team. Granted, our 6 heros couldn't be relied on to stand in the wards, but gotta work with what we've got.
Did my damage suffer much? No. Sandstorm still provided good damage, as well as unsteady ground and 2-3 other non elite earth skills. Personally, even though its less damage, unsteady was better as the added knockdown was more enemy shutdown than sandstorm.
But I won't lie. I've run fire in Hard Mode before. Cleared Sunjiang Province with it. The difference was it synergized with everyone and acted as a form of shutdown with the paragon standing next to us. Two SF eles plus a "They're On Fire!" paragon drastically cut enemy damage down, a classic combination. Meteor Shower is only effictive because it acts as enemy shutdown with 3 knockdowns over 9 seconds, and still deals decent damage.
All in all, the point I'm trying to make is theres more than putting numbers above enemy heads. Sure, ideally the tank will always have the aggro and you can happily spam damage oblivious to the possiblity of something sneaking by. In my experience, this isn't Walgreens and it isn't a perfect world. Monster AI has improved, and they frequently target whats doing the most damage to them or what's shutting them down the most. When they break from the tank, who will be in the rear to stop a single Shiroken elementalist from decimating the squishies?
31 May 2007 at 22:58 - 11
A prot monk.
It's a team game, and everyone has their role. Why waste half your skill bar on defensive buffs, when a monk can do it for you *and* the whole party, much more efficiently, whilst cleansing you of hexes etc. at the same time?
As for Fire self-defense... I rarely enter hard mode without Flame Djinn's Haste. The buff is crucial for kiting HM foes. Likewise, for Air, Storm Djinn's Haste is virtually stapled to any HM Air bar I run.
As for Earth and Water... Rarely do I run them for HM. I haven't been truly impressed by either, as there's little a Water ele does that a Fire guy can do similarly well with Deep Freeze @ 0 spec.
Earth... just feels kinda weak. The obvious Hawk/Stoning/Glowstone combo does little damage (and a knockdown... sac'd MS anyone?), Eruption's the only Earth skill that really had me thinking much, because Blind on foes that A-net didn't give condition removal to is awesome.
All in all, any decent player is NOT oblivious to how the battle progresses. He just knows his place in the party, accomplishes his assigned role, and has his finger on Flame Djinn just in case.
01 Jun 2007 at 00:31 - 12
Points well made. Well made indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
A prot monk.
It's a team game, and everyone has their role. Why waste half your skill bar on defensive buffs, when a monk can do it for you *and* the whole party, much more efficiently, whilst cleansing you of hexes etc. at the same time?
I do not know if you have ever played a monk, but a monk alone cannot perform complete party wide damage mitigation unless backed up by two other monks. Also, protection monks usually lack any wonderful form of self defense. Sure, we now have Zealous Benediction, but that turns you into more of a healer than a full blown protector. And if you want hex removal, try Shatter Hex on another character, or even Inspired Hex. That's damage or energy, as well as cleansing a hex. Two for one with one skill. Those were just examples of course but I felt they would best convey what I was trying to get across.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
As for Fire self-defense... I rarely enter hard mode without Flame Djinn's Haste. The buff is crucial for kiting HM foes. Likewise, for Air, Storm Djinn's Haste is virtually stapled to any HM Air bar I run.
Okay, Hard Mode creatures move how much faster? I would like to say 50%, though I might be overguessing. At least 33%, I can be safe with that assumption. Flame Djinns Haste is a 33% enchantment, they will still catch you. Not to mention it being inadvertantly removed by a shatter or some other approaite skill or you being slowed by crippled or hexed. On a side note, Flame Djinns Haste doesn't help your monk much if hes the one being attacked, not you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
As for Earth and Water... Rarely do I run them for HM. I haven't been truly impressed by either, as there's little a Water ele does that a Fire guy can do similarly well with Deep Freeze @ 0 spec.
Earth... just feels kinda weak. The obvious Hawk/Stoning/Glowstone combo does little damage (and a knockdown... sac'd MS anyone?), Eruption's the only Earth skill that really had me thinking much, because Blind on foes that A-net didn't give condition removal to is awesome.
You skirted around my primary points of earth. Wards. They offer group wide mitigation in a single spell and can be kept up permanent with 16 earth (the obvious exception of Ward of Stability, which is down for 5 seconds, why AneT why  ) Even with wards however, theres only 2 that make the cut usually(Melee and Elements), that leaves one spot for a tune, one for a rez, and 4 for damage. Since a tune and a rez aren't really defensive skills, I can't say half my bar is defensive. My air build has 5 attack skills and still keeps 4-5 things blind, weakened, or both. Comparitively, sac'ed MS is 3 knockdows over the course of 10 seconds with a 1:30 recharge. Ebon Hawk/Stoning is knockdown once every 5 seconds and can be timed to interupt skills such as troll or healing sig (though not as much in hard mode, you'd have to predict when they use them, though that's not hard either).
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
All in all, any decent player is NOT oblivious to how the battle progresses. He just knows his place in the party, accomplishes his assigned role, and has his finger on Flame Djinn just in case.
Now see, you misunderstood. I didn't accuse anyone of being oblivious to anything. It was used more as a metaphore, you have taken it out of context. I stated it in the sense that someone spamming damage without any defensive skills would be oblivious to their surroundings because all they have is damage. If you put defense in there, it changes the whole sense of the situation.
01 Jun 2007 at 01:31 - 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
A prot monk.
It's a team game, and everyone has their role. Why waste half your skill bar on defensive buffs, when a monk can do it for you *and* the whole party, much more efficiently, whilst cleansing you of hexes etc. at the same time?
As for Fire self-defense... I rarely enter hard mode without Flame Djinn's Haste. The buff is crucial for kiting HM foes. Likewise, for Air, Storm Djinn's Haste is virtually stapled to any HM Air bar I run.
As for Earth and Water... Rarely do I run them for HM. I haven't been truly impressed by either, as there's little a Water ele does that a Fire guy can do similarly well with Deep Freeze @ 0 spec.
Earth... just feels kinda weak. The obvious Hawk/Stoning/Glowstone combo does little damage (and a knockdown... sac'd MS anyone?), Eruption's the only Earth skill that really had me thinking much, because Blind on foes that A-net didn't give condition removal to is awesome.
All in all, any decent player is NOT oblivious to how the battle progresses. He just knows his place in the party, accomplishes his assigned role, and has his finger on Flame Djinn just in case.
True that. Good teams learn from biology. Single celled organisms (solo farmers) may be good at surviving in their environment, but find it hard to adapt to change and may die off quick if moved into a new environment. Colonial organisms are like a gimmick builds ie, para spike. All exploit a similar strength, but all exhibit the same weaknesses too. Advanced organisms are multicellular, meaning cells are specialized and do one thing well. Each part can cover the other's weaknesses while still achieving a common goal. I beleive this is why many top guilds and teams run balanced builds. You really cant, "counter" them but they have the resources to counter other builds, all it takes is skill, experience and a bit of luck.
01 Jun 2007 at 08:10 - 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonidas2
I do not know if you have ever played a monk, but a monk alone cannot perform complete party wide damage mitigation unless backed up by two other monks. Also, protection monks usually lack any wonderful form of self defense. Sure, we now have Zealous Benediction, but that turns you into more of a healer than a full blown protector. And if you want hex removal, try Shatter Hex on another character, or even Inspired Hex. That's damage or energy, as well as cleansing a hex. Two for one with one skill. Those were just examples of course but I felt they would best convey what I was trying to get across.
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I have played a monk, actually, yes.
Ever heard of a bonder? They mitigate party-wide damage quite substantially, you know? However... Party-wide isn't necersarily needed. Protection Prayers rule because it allows *powerful* spot protections, on the chars that are getting wailed on. And as for prot monks lacking any form of powerful self-defense... Last I checked, you could use Prot Spirit and RoF on yourself
Also, Prot monks with some healing capabilities are a good thing - they allow flexibility on a monk, and if you didn't run a hybrid... you'd likely fill your bar with null skills, as opposed to good ones like Gift of Health.
And monks still rule at hex-removal - they can pre-Veil the tank and other key members, and if the area is hex-heavy (you know, PvE being static and all... adaptation ftw) then run Divert as your elite. Of course, a Shatter on the mes can only help. 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonidas2
I'm not a fan of wards, not in HM PvE. They require you to camp then for the benefit, artificially restricting your movement... And I like movement, intelligent movement is one of the best advantages we have over the AI.
Also, running out of a lvl 28's Firestorm >>> Camping a Ward vs. elements.
But if you truly wanted to run wards... Why gimp your damage by sticking to earth? Have your eles run 9-10 spec'd wards on a Fire or Air build. It's not like we need 13 Energy
Besides, as I suggested above, an Aegis chain is a pretty solid way to defend your party, and the ELES can easily do that on a 9 spec Aegis. It also defends vs Paras and Rangers, something Ward v Melee dunt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonidas2
Now see, you misunderstood. I didn't accuse anyone of being oblivious to anything. It was used more as a metaphore, you have taken it out of context. I stated it in the sense that someone spamming damage without any defensive skills would be oblivious to their surroundings because all they have is damage. If you put defense in there, it changes the whole sense of the situation.
Yes, and I'd hope that anyone playing hard mode and hoping to succeed has enough cranial capacity to be able to do something other than press 1, or whatever key SF is glued to. If you can't react to enemy movement in hard mode... prepare to eat dirt.
^^^^Not directed at you btw It's more towards them types who can't even spell 'kite', let alone fathom the mysteries of RoF...
01 Jun 2007 at 10:35 - 15
Never realised I'd provoke this amount of interest
Anyhow, I just like to re-emphasise a point that seems to have been overlooked. I'm well aware that this build is a compromise, but it's really designed to be that way. I agree that if I was going out with a fully organised group of Guildies, I'd be more likely to run another build.
However, I play a lot with PUGs and life's too short to wait around for the optimal mix of chars and skillsets........hence the "utility" slant on the build
01 Jun 2007 at 20:17 - 16
Kiting is not simply frantically running around when done correctly. An ele who tries to tank is a joke unless you are running an Obsid tank in DoA or some farming build. As said, Aegis > Wards. Stoneflesh has a very long cast and is easily stripped. Firestorm is also a joke. If you want a non elite AoE fire skill outside of Meteor Shower, run Breath of Fire (unless you want one that is cast where you stand to scare off enemies. BoF is cheaper, does a bit more damage and works just fine with a 5 second duration since enemies in HM will run out of AoE in a short while anyways. With that said, I still wouldn't even reccomend that since AoE damage isn't really worthwhile unless you have some good snares. Finally, Mark of Rodgort isn't really worthwhile unless you have a team that does a lot of fire damage. One ele usually isn't enough to make the sustained damage from MoR worth it's energy cost and hex dependancy.
01 Jun 2007 at 20:27 - 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
I have played a monk, actually, yes.
Ever heard of a bonder? They mitigate party-wide damage quite substantially, you know? However... Party-wide isn't necersarily needed. Protection Prayers rule because it allows *powerful* spot protections, on the chars that are getting wailed on. And as for prot monks lacking any form of powerful self-defense... Last I checked, you could use Prot Spirit and RoF on yourself
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For the sake of argument, even though it has nothing to do with elementalists as this thread is getting off topic, I will hit on the monks. Prot Spirit + RoF = 15 energy spent for a 40 or 50ish heal (80-100ish if you count the fact that half negated and half healed). And to effectively heal with RoF and Prot Spirit, it requires to spam RoF, which leaves you little else to do but burn energy.
Okay, away from the monks somewhat, enchantments are not the end all to enemy damage. Its a confusing word, I hated to use it, but I'm going too. Offensive Defense. Basically, skills that target the enemy but prevent them from doing damage to you. Bilnding Flash and Enervating Charge are excellant examples. Enchantments can be stripped very very easily. If you rely solely on them, you leave yourself exposed. Overspecialization is a weak strategy. Take for example the toucher, he is overspecialized in the sense that he must be adjacent to run his build. In the light of elementalists, I will use the water line to make the point. Any snare at all will completely shutdown the toucher. If he can't reach you, hes at a loss to do anything and is left to fumble around at 66% slower. Hes left himself open to a large number of skills, just one of which will knock him out of the ball field.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Yes, I know I did. Why?
I'm not a fan of wards, not in HM PvE. They require you to camp then for the benefit, artificially restricting your movement... And I like movement, intelligent movement is one of the best advantages we have over the AI.
Also, running out of a lvl 28's Firestorm >>> Camping a Ward vs. elements.
But if you truly wanted to run wards... Why gimp your damage by sticking to earth? Have your eles run 9-10 spec'd wards on a Fire or Air build. It's not like we need 13 Energy
Besides, as I suggested above, an Aegis chain is a pretty solid way to defend your party, and the ELES can easily do that on a 9 spec Aegis. It also defends vs Paras and Rangers, something Ward v Melee dunt.
A lvl 28's firestorm does <20 damage a hit standing inside of a ward against the elements, not to mention a ward is "in the area" and firestorm is "adjacent" (or was it "nearby...I don't use it enough, either way...smaller than the ward, allowing movement inside the ward to avoid it). Anyways, I see your point on a split build, and I won't deny it would be a decent idea, but I've never had any personal success with it. Usually it tends to be too energy intensive or the monster AI is too smart for it. I've noticed they tend to spike and they do so extremely well and with good aim, knowing whos upsetting them the most and going for them at their weakest moment. It happens, and that's why I always go with a full on one element build most of the time.
01 Jun 2007 at 21:55 - 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonidas2
For the sake of argument, even though it has nothing to do with elementalists as this thread is getting off topic, I will hit on the monks. Prot Spirit + RoF = 15 energy spent for a 40 or 50ish heal (80-100ish if you count the fact that half negated and half healed). And to effectively heal with RoF and Prot Spirit, it requires to spam RoF, which leaves you little else to do but burn energy.
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So, your 15 energy does not, at any point, take into account the amount of health saved from Prot Spirit? /clap
Discount the 10 energy prot from your heal, if you want to discount it's effect from your summary. Suddenly, a 5 energy RoF effectively healing (negation + DF + actual heal) for 80-100 is a lot more tempting, no?
"Hi, I'm a healer monk, btw. It's my job to heal directly, whilst the prot monk negates damage. Oh? What's that? The prot has Gift as well for direct healing? Goody! Now he doesn't have to spam his prots to heal with DF! Wow-ee!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonidas52
Offensive Defense.
Yeah, I'm well aware of it. However... As a fire guy, you don't really have much access to it, no? The best you've got is to run a decent-spec Steam off of Immolate or SF. That's about it, unless you're running Mind Blast you'd nary have the energy to spam Flash, even then it's a bit tight.
And yes, while Enchantments are easily stripped, the important ones - Attunes, for instance - should always be buried under AoR, or a chance RoF in enchantment-strip heavy areas. Heck, even Flame Djinn can be whacked on to cover something if the shit hits the fan.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Leonidas52
Usually it tends to be too energy intensive or the monster AI is too smart for it. I've noticed they tend to spike and they do so extremely well and with good aim, knowing whos upsetting them the most and going for them at their weakest moment. It happens, and that's why I always go with a full on one element build most of the time.
What? A 10-energy ward every now and again? A 5-energy Steam? Or a 15-energy Aegis once every 30 seconds?
Dude... where did all your energy go?
And... what does having 13 Energy as opposed to 9 have to do with your survival, exactly? Please, explain.
And EDIT: I haven't seen the AI ever spike intelligently, kite intelligently, or go for anyone in particular intelligently. Spikes are by chance
(Margonite1: Hey! Some well to do hero type! I'm gonna pwn you... *casts Invoke, first thing*
Margonite2: Hey! Some well to do hero type! I'm gonna pwn you... *casts Invoke, first thing*
Margonite3: Hey! Some well to do hero type! I'm gonna pwn you... *casts Invoke, first thing*), and the AI will all happily train on the squishiest person, regardless of the fact he's been buffed to Timbuktu.
The AI in GW is only *just* smart enough to move out of AoE, eventually... The only thing it is any good at is interrupting, which is ungodly reflexes as opposed to actual intelligence.
01 Jun 2007 at 23:52 - 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
Kiting is not simply frantically running around when done correctly. An ele who tries to tank is a joke unless you are running an Obsid tank in DoA or some farming build. As said, Aegis > Wards. Stoneflesh has a very long cast and is easily stripped. Firestorm is also a joke. If you want a non elite AoE fire skill outside of Meteor Shower, run Breath of Fire (unless you want one that is cast where you stand to scare off enemies. BoF is cheaper, does a bit more damage and works just fine with a 5 second duration since enemies in HM will run out of AoE in a short while anyways. With that said, I still wouldn't even reccomend that since AoE damage isn't really worthwhile unless you have some good snares. Finally, Mark of Rodgort isn't really worthwhile unless you have a team that does a lot of fire damage. One ele usually isn't enough to make the sustained damage from MoR worth it's energy cost and hex dependancy.
1) The build I posted is not about tanking, it's about survivability. Anyone that Leeeeroooys with it will soon land up face down. However, when the baddies target your squishyness, you'll be glad of the extra damage reduction (prot monks or not).
2) Breath of Fire (5/2/30) -v- Firestorm (10/2/30)...hmmmmm... Same recharge, same cast time but Firestorm lasts twice as long (albeit with alittle less damage per sec). With a Mind Blast build, energy should not be a problem and the scatter/return AI means returning hostiles are more than likely to take more damage over it's duration (plus renewed burning if MoR is on them). Sorry, but for me the math does not stack in favour of Breath of Fire, either as a damage dealer or as anti-pressure.
3) Snares.....sure the moster A1 will stand in an AoE spell longer than most human players, but when they move, they can generally get out in a second or two regardless of speed reduction or not. Plus, your taking up a skill slot (and spreading attribute points even more thinly) for something that (imho) has little real benefit.
4) Sure MoR is conditional on hitting a target hexed with it with some sort of fire damage, but that can come from a variety of sources...ele spells, fiery rangers, any melee chars with fire weapons, heck even wanding will do it. -7 degen is generally a good thing on your enemy
02 Jun 2007 at 04:47 - 20
This thread has gotten a bit off topic....
Anyway, problems with the posted build:
1) Spells that provide defense to yourself only aren't very good, as there are 8 other players who might get targeted, making your vaunted protection worthless. Think of a spell that can be used to apply defense to your whole party as 8 times as valuable.
2)Mind blast shines when you use it to power high energy spammy stuff. I like immolate and fireball as my staple combo for mind blasters. Most of the stuff on your bar has fairly long recharges, so most of your time will be spent spamming mind blast for damage, instead of firing it off from time to time for energy.
3)Mind blast REALLY wants to be at 16 spec, for the 10 energy return. Also, GoLE doesn't belong on a bar with elite energy management.
4)Firestorm sucks. If you want a pulsing AoE in fire, look no further than searing heat. The massive AoE more than makes up for the shorter duration.
5)Ward v. melee is ok, aegis is better. If you have the spare energy, eruption is nicer than ward v. melee, even at low spec.
6)Don't mess with mark of rodgort unless you're a SF ele or your team has fire weapons. There really are better things to do then wand someone for the burning damage.
7)Rez is nice, things die. Rebirth can be ok for missions with hero hench, as pretty much any retreat turns into a wipe with heroes. Death pact signet is also really nice.
02 Jun 2007 at 09:13 - 21
I figured this thread would have self-destructed by now, but apparently nobody took the time to point out the obvious: In a team, the people with the lest armor need to take their asses away from aggro and leave tanking to tanks.
Yes, the build has a whole lot of problems with it, but the main problem is that it's based on the premise that elementalists cannot cause damage while kiting, which is ridiculous. This is not a "Jesus" build, here to show us all where we went wrong ("Ah yes I see, so I just sit in front of the lvl 30 warrior that attacks +33% faster and slowly cast my spells!").
Dude, seriously, learn to play an elementalist. This half-breed farming build is an abomination and will never work properly.
02 Jun 2007 at 11:32 - 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArKaiN
*snip*
Dude, seriously, learn to play an elementalist. This half-breed farming build is an abomination and will never work properly.
When a thread degenerates into personal abuse, it's time to shut it down. For what it's worth, I've never claimed this is the greatest build in the history of GW - I just threw it out there because it worked for me in a variety of different situations.
Check my contributions - nowhere do I claim I'm a "guru", nowhere do I belittle the other contributors. If you can't accept that I can hold a different opinion to you then so be it.
P.S my ele has 1500 hours of playtime and has all three Protector titles. I've used all 4 skill lines and a variety of combos with secondaries. I don't claim this gives me special insight or that my opinions have more validity than anyone else's as I'm continuously learning, but I like to think I've picked up a few reasonable strategies.
Pace and goodnight.
02 Jun 2007 at 13:01 - 23
build's ok-la when you only have like 4 guys, except for stoneflesh, which is questionable (I guess the monk needs to lrn2prot) but for areas that allow 6 or 8, this build has a huge lack of searing flames.
Then I read this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Original poster
Oh lol yes, I love kiting. I contribute soooo much to a team while I'm frantically running around avoiding all the nasties.........
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and realized that you're bad. So anyway, I guess you need to learn fundamental aspects of the game before you post amongst people that seem, for the most part, to have a grasp on it. I reccomend www.gwonline.net if you want to continue to be bad at the game. GL and merry adventuring!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Strangelove
6)Don't mess with mark of rodgort unless you're a SF ele or your team has fire weapons. There really are better things to do then wand someone for the burning damage.
It's actually ok damage if you're spamming fireball on cycle and hitting a lot of bunched up mobs, as the skill has been reworked continually to the point that it almost needs a nerf for pvp. It continues to do damage as you wait for recharges and cast times, so you can maintain DPS between casting. It also turns your fireballs into cheaper rodgorts invocations, which is pretty fun. I'm not a huge fan of DoTs in pve, as they tend to scatter mobs, but there's no real point in running mind blast in parties with multiple eles to begin with.
03 Jun 2007 at 02:58 - 24
I find Mind Blast to be unreliable in PvE as a source of Energy regeneration. A pair of two lightning drakes have recently been recorded to use at least 30 Mind Shocks and 25 Lightning orbs before a solo farmer was able to finally kill them with condition degen. Monster energy pools can be massive.
03 Jun 2007 at 04:09 - 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouse at Large
*snip*
P.S my ele has 1500 hours of playtime
*snip*
Then you should try another class, because clearly experience doesn't teach you anything.
On this build.
03 Jun 2007 at 05:44 - 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skye Marin
I find Mind Blast to be unreliable in PvE as a source of Energy regeneration. A pair of two lightning drakes have recently been recorded to use at least 30 Mind Shocks and 25 Lightning orbs before a solo farmer was able to finally kill them with condition degen. Monster energy pools can be massive.
I've found that they always have energy pools around the maximum for their class, and it's almost always full. Thus, mind blast will pretty much always work on everything but an ele if you're careful with it. If all else fails, you should have a +30/-1 regen set to pull out.
03 Jun 2007 at 12:21 - 27
Well the eles have 20 in Energy Storage so will have a minimum of about 110 energy anyway.
The only time you should ever use Mind Blast if it your in a team with no other hero/human eles. Its useless compared to Searing Flames. On its own SF is debatable... but in packs its obviously not.
Stoneflesh sucks anyway... the enemies hit for well over 30 damage, even the wanding.
Whats with all the ward hate anyway? If you have 2 SF ele thats 2-4 wards or 2 wards and an Aegis. Aegis can be shattered, drained, stripped. Wards just rely on the hench staying inside them, which happens alot. Except Alesia anyway...
03 Jun 2007 at 14:18 - 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouse at Large
Oh lol yes, I love kiting. I contribute soooo much to a team while I'm frantically running around avoiding all the nasties.........
Because you're contributing so much to the team when half your bar is pure emanagement or defense...
If you take out stoneflesh aura and put another damage skill or ward in, this build might be barely salvageable...maybe
And I could careless if you've logged 1500 hours on it. I've heard people who said they've logged 2000+ hours on a warrior and yet they claim mending with healing breeze is the perfect skill combo for helping them survive. Mending's leet, but that's besides the point...
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