unid scam - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Mr The Plauge

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2007

29 May 2007 at 07:22 - 1

unid item sales are usually fine because theyre garbage weapons usually sold for the cost of 1-2k for acquiring a title. theres a problem of more knowledgable players who can pre test items for every mod including dmg modifiers and sell them for absurd prices, taking advantage of uninformed players. the anet team does a good job of stopping the possibilites of scams from happening. my suggestion for this scam would be for anet to make a change to unidentified items where the items couldnt give any hp bonus when equipped, sundering dmg vs tested target...etc, you get the point. this is an exploit that has been abused for a very long time now and it would please me to see it thwarted.

anyways, on this forum im usually logged on with the user name Grasping Darkness. had an issue with logging in on that name with this laptop where i would sign in and hit the post new thread button and this site would log me out. i gave away my pc to my best friend to enjoy while im in prison for 8-10 starting tomorrow..

laters

Full Metal X

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

Zomg Lasers Pew

29 May 2007 at 07:27 - 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr The Plauge

unid item sales are usually fine because theyre garbage weapons usually sold for the cost of 1-2k for acquiring a title.

Most of the time people only buy unid golds for the title anwyays and the only time it becomes a problem is rare skins say a rare zodiac shield or something, so if its a rare skin dont buy it. Just stick to the garbage wands and offhands and such because 99% of the time a rare skin is a scam.

holababe

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2006

Goon Squad [LLJK]

Mo/

29 May 2007 at 07:30 - 3

Not technically a scam either

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

29 May 2007 at 07:33 - 4

It's not a scam, but it isn't legit. They should remove the option to test mods, it's not very fair to be able to find out what you have, without seeing it.

mr_groovy

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Netherlands

No Inherent Effect [NiE]

29 May 2007 at 07:38 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

It's not a scam, but it isn't legit. They should remove the option to test mods, it's not very fair to be able to find out what you have, without seeing it.

Fail
If you would do that the prices of unid items would go up, making wisdom title really expensive

I wouldn't sell my unid anymore ^^, then again I don't sell unid period because I'm still going for wisdom on my monk

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

29 May 2007 at 07:56 - 6

Exactly. The Wisdom title wasn't intended to be bought. It's meant to show that you've ID'd a lot of items. Not that you spent a heap of gold to ID other people's items.

Brianna

Insane & Inhumane

Join Date: Feb 2006

29 May 2007 at 08:07 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Exactly. The Wisdom title wasn't intended to be bought. It's meant to show that you've ID'd a lot of items. Not that you spent a heap of gold to ID other people's items.

Quote for truth. I'd like to see this get nerfed because it seems like a broken game mechanic, you should only be able to know mods after it has been identified, thats what unidentified means, you don't know the mods! for you cannot see them. So i would /sign for a fix from anet or something, It's truthful that buying any unid for over 1k is a ripoff.

Destinyy

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2007

Faction of War [ARES]

29 May 2007 at 08:11 - 8

Buying the ID title is actually just STOOPID if you ask me, Spending 100K just to get the 1st title step is crazy!!! Farm it, My necro has the lvl1 title and that's purely through her 55 farming expeditions...

I bought a few unid bows the other day from some dude, but that was cos I have just started a ranger and wanted to see if I could string a nice bow together for her... I ended up with a sundering caged shortbow of fortetude with +5energy...

for 8K

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

29 May 2007 at 08:16 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

Quote for truth. I'd like to see this get nerfed because it seems like a broken game mechanic, you should only be able to know mods after it has been identified, thats what unidentified means, you don't know the mods! for you cannot see them. So i would /sign for a fix from anet or something, It's truthful that buying any unid for over 1k is a ripoff.

If you are a professional antiquarian you will assess others people old stuff, and u gain expertise in doing so, I wouldn't see why this is broken then? Like professors knowing a lot, you really think they did every experiment themselves? They buy knowledge as well.

Destiny the title is a bit more expensive then 100 k, as u need to identify 10000 golds for 1000 gold at least. That would mean 10000k so its not so easily bought, unless u ebay.

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

29 May 2007 at 08:21 - 10

Yes it isn't easily bought, but assuming you can get SOME money back from the ID'd items, it'll cost a lot less than 10000k.

Each ID'd item will probably be ~200g at the merchant, which makes it 8000k max. If you get a close to max mod, that's another 500g, give or take. That makes it 3000k. If you get something GOOD, then it'll be worth more. So you see, if you can salvage stuff to sell, or even just merch, the total cost can drop a fair bit.

Which means that it's easier to buy. Because in some cases the ID's can pay for themselves (sometimes you get real lucky with items). Which is why it needs fixing.

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

29 May 2007 at 08:35 - 11

comeon the returns on golds are usually crap. perfect mods drop only very seldom, the return u estimate for it at 5000k is way too big. Only good mods (fortitude and such) are worth the time for selling. The armor crap on staves and such is almost worthless these days, and even if they are worth something, the question whether selling them is actually time efficient compared to farming or whatever.

If the title cost only half the investment, then this is still a fair bit 5000 platinum is quite a lot. Soul reaping was broken, this isn't, this is just economics. whether u should be able to assess the powers of the golden item is indeed questionable, but I guess that gold farmers only test this on rare skins, u wouldnt have the time to test it on all items found, although some like fortitude are easy to find.

Buying the title isn't problematic except that it might invoke people to do stuff that is not in line with the EULA, but that is their responsability, not yours.

freekedoutfish

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

E/

29 May 2007 at 08:35 - 12

I dont quite get what the scam is?

If you knowingly buy an UI gold item, and later find out you were either over-charged, or you sold it for too little, then thats your own fault.

A scam is when someone lies about what an item is, and sells it to you for more then its worth, and other similar situations.

Because UI are "unidentified", then its your own daft fault if you sell a rare item for too low a value, or you buy one for too much. The seller or buyer isnt scamming you just because you get the wrong price.

DarkGanni

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Malta

[CuTe]

E/

29 May 2007 at 08:42 - 13

It's not a scam, If players don't know that you can test weapons it's not the sellers fault but the buyer's for his lack of knowledge in the game.

I don't see the reason to place such a nerf just cause certain players dont know how to trade on certain items

- Ganni

Brianna

Insane & Inhumane

Join Date: Feb 2006

29 May 2007 at 08:44 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkGanni

It's not a scam, If players don't know that you can test weapons it's not the sellers fault but the buyer's for his lack of knowledge in the game.

I don't see the reason to place such a nerf just cause certain players dont know how to trade on certain items

- Ganni

No, thats not why it should be nerfed, (''because players dont know how to trade on certain items) it's because items ARENT SUPPOSED TO WORK THIS way, unid means you cannot see the mods and you should not know them until it is IDENTIFIED! perhaps you should look up those definitions and see what they mean, it makes a lot of sense.

rogh daxh

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2006

29 May 2007 at 09:09 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

No, thats not why it should be nerfed, (''because players dont know how to trade on certain items) it's because items ARENT SUPPOSED TO WORK THIS way, unid means you cannot see the mods and you should not know them until it is IDENTIFIED! perhaps you should look up those definitions and see what they mean, it makes a lot of sense.

AMEN, nuff said :P

Luna Star

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2007

29 May 2007 at 09:21 - 16

I agree with others, you shouldn't be able to know what the mods are till the item is id'ed, so mods shouldn't show.
Anyway it's not a scam.

SuperDave

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

South Africa

Forever Knights

Mo/

29 May 2007 at 09:24 - 17

Many people opt to advance their title by buying a few unids for 1k, fair enough. But buying an unid for more then that just because it's a desirable skin and "might" have a rare mod on is just stupid, seeing as it can be tested by the seller.

So, if you want to risk that and shoot yourself in the foot, go ahead. Be stupid. I honestly don't see it as a scam if the buyer fails to use some common sense.

I see so many people trying to sell unid rare skin weapons for close to the current market value of that item if it had good stats. I just choose to ignore those sellers, and so should the majority of people. ID it first, then we can start the haggling.

Destinyy

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2007

Faction of War [ARES]

29 May 2007 at 10:03 - 18

I wont pay more than 8K for 7 unid... If the guys insists he has a better modded unid and wants 3K for it I will call "bull S**t" on him and move on...

Once i have my title and I have no need for unid anymore, I will test them myself before I sell em for 1K just to make sure I dont want it...

Brianna

Insane & Inhumane

Join Date: Feb 2006

29 May 2007 at 10:44 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by JesusChrist

The weapon has magical properties, or certain bonuses. Your character simply needs to identify them to recognize them. However, they don't just 'not have' the properties because a character doesn't know what they are.

/notsigned

It's not about the char, its about you, YOU as a player shouldn't know what the mods are till the item is id'd.. It's really simple if you use common sense lol. It's like having x-ray vision on your presents before you get them, It's just not supposed to be that way.

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

29 May 2007 at 10:51 - 20

The issue isn't about scamming. You can scam anyone with anything. The issue is that you can equip items and tell what mods they have (almost exactly what they have), without Identifying them. Which COMPLETELY defeats the purpose. Being able to tell what items are good or bad, then choosing which ones to ID, and which to sell as UNID'd, it's not what Anet intended when they made Guild Wars. It should be fixed.

undeadgun

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

US

Its Rainning Fame Hallelujah[伞回伞], also as guild leader

N/

29 May 2007 at 11:03 - 21

that's why i always buy Uind armor from chinese farmer friends for cheap, cuz i know they already took out the rune, 3k for 7 unid armor, after i mercahnt armor, that's only 1k for 7 uind towards to title, pretty good deal imo

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

29 May 2007 at 11:11 - 22

Hmm, interesting way to get Wisdom points undeadgun. I always thought salvaging runes out would have a use :P

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

29 May 2007 at 11:19 - 23

But it isn't about unid sellers keeping items with good mods. It's about them keeping them BEFORE THEY ARE ID'D. It's just like seeing lucky dip prizes before you can pick what you want, and then choosing based on what you saw. It's dumb.

God Apprentice

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mo/N

29 May 2007 at 12:14 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

The issue isn't about scamming. You can scam anyone with anything. The issue is that you can equip items and tell what mods they have (almost exactly what they have), without Identifying them. Which COMPLETELY defeats the purpose. Being able to tell what items are good or bad, then choosing which ones to ID, and which to sell as UNID'd, it's not what Anet intended when they made Guild Wars. It should be fixed.

QFT. You really shouldn't be able to equip and find out mods (vamp, etc)

Dronte

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Sep 2006

29 May 2007 at 12:34 - 25

Dont buy unid golds for money, thats all. Go and try your luck somewhere else. Btw it isnt easy to test dmg mods, vs undead, sundering and so. Ok, you can test fortitude, vampiric, and zealous, and also shield's mods, but thats not much.

Btw we could call salvaged armor sellers scammers.

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

29 May 2007 at 12:57 - 26

Actually, you can test almost all mods, except the +dmg vs type ones (who wants to know them anyway). On the Isle of the Nameless you can EASILY test:

15^50
20<50
15 stance
15 enchanted
20 vs hexed
15 while hexed
Fortitude
Zealous
Vampiric

There's a couple more but I forget. And that's just melee weapons...

truemyths

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

29 May 2007 at 13:24 - 27

ok, to me, if you know that the unid could be garbage and the person could have tested it, that's fair.

What isn't fair is when people don't know [haven't realized] you can test for those mods and buy the unids with the thought that they can get a really cool mod... and the sellers take advantage of it.

I wouldn't advocate a change to unids; instead post info on the wiki about it.

But.... what I really want to know about is the 8-10 years in prison.

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

29 May 2007 at 13:30 - 28

Yeah, same truemyths...but I didn't want to be rude :S

Clone

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

29 May 2007 at 13:35 - 29

I suggested that mods on unidentified items should be inactive. That was ages ago. I wish you luck, but trying to get changes that would seem obvious to many is unfortunately not so obvious to Anet.

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

29 May 2007 at 13:59 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

I suggested that mods on unidentified items should be inactive. That was ages ago. I wish you luck, but trying to get changes that would seem obvious to many is unfortunately not so obvious to Anet.

This is quite unnatural, the mods are present, and exert their effect. The only thing that differs is that u either know or dont know exactly what they are. An ID kit would be the cheap way to find it out, otherwise lengthy research is needed. In this case equiping it.

Pyro maniac

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

29 May 2007 at 14:04 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

I suggested that mods on unidentified items should be inactive. That was ages ago. I wish you luck, but trying to get changes that would seem obvious to many is unfortunately not so obvious to Anet.

there hasn't been any update where you couldn't find any complain threads on guru.
Thats why they don't change it -_-

On topic: It both has got it advantages. I just don't buy rare skins unid (I actually dont buy any unid). Has been said already: unid then sell. Especially with nightfall all mods can be changed and they don't change the price of rare skins at all
I sold a fellblade r8 gold, right after factions was out. Only tested it for fortitude and zealous mod, however I could easily sold a 19% vs hexed fellblade there.

Antheus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

29 May 2007 at 15:43 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Exactly. The Wisdom title wasn't intended to be bought. It's meant to show that you've ID'd a lot of items. Not that you spent a heap of gold to ID other people's items.

Or, in other words, it's another purely grind based title, reflecting the fact you spent 4000 hours farming for golds or chest running? Because that's "honorable" and "the right way".

No, it's a title that shows you identified x items. There is no rule about intentions on obtaining it.

Show me, where in title's description it says: "You may not identify items obtained from other players".

Fortunately, there's still players who prefer to use wits to obtain titles, rather than just grind mindlessly. Titles only mean something to player obtaining them.

I still don't get it why there's so many people so snobbish about in-game achievements. There is no right or wrong way to do anything. If it doesn't get you banned, it's the right way. If there's a problem with rate of advancement, then that's the problem of game mechanics. God forbid we leave at least a hunch of creativity in games.

Ritual del Fuego

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

CA

Frogs in Winter [FiW]

29 May 2007 at 17:08 - 33

If the item has magical properties, it makes sense that they take affect when you equip the item. So, either A/net would have to make it so you can't equip unidentified items, or leave it the way it is. If they made it so the magical properties are not "active" until you identify them, it would not make a lot of sense. Personally, I would rather spend my time doing other things but if someone wants to take the time to test each gold they get before selling, all the power to them.

As for how a/net intended us to get titles, I think what is great about GW is that they leave alot of things open so people can find multiple ways of doing things. If someone can afford to buy a title, good for them. Just like in real life, the rich can do things easier than those with less money. What else are people going to do with their gold anyway. It's no different than people who spend money on expensive armors, weapons, or mini pets for that matter. Most titles are just another thing to purchase in the game.

Red-Tide

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

Edmonton, Canada

[Liar]

Mo/

29 May 2007 at 18:35 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr The Plauge

while im in prison for 8-10 starting tomorrow..

laters

Ouch - What did ya do?

Does-it-Matter

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

N/

29 May 2007 at 19:10 - 35

Copied over from the other thread about the same subject:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Does it Matter

While I completely agree with you on the scamming issue, from a "realistic" (as realistic as the term can be used in a fantasy game) whether I _personally_ know the capabilities of an item or not, it would still work the same way.

After all, we are dealing with an "identification kit" not an "awakening kit" or some other sort of magical "on" switch for the item. An item still falls at a certain rate whether I can calculate its acceleration due to gravity or not.

But what about the scammers you say? Simple. Don't buy unidentified weapons. Unless of course you're trying to buy yourself the Wisdom title, and even then, go out and earn it, there are so many ways to get golds now.

Soul of the Scythe

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2007

Boston, MA

Higher Order [HO]

D/

29 May 2007 at 19:13 - 36

I am way more interested in the whole prison thing than noobs gettin scammed...

wth happened?

Sir Skullcrasher

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

California

15 over 50 [Rare]

W/Mo

29 May 2007 at 19:35 - 37

You get what you paid for, in this case buying unid thinking you'll make a huge profits usually is a bad idea!

Deadlyjunk

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

Fisherman's Haven

Endangered Species List [List]

W/E

29 May 2007 at 20:02 - 38

Totally agree with fenix. You're not supposed to know what you're getting till you get it...

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

29 May 2007 at 21:38 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

No, thats not why it should be nerfed, (''because players dont know how to trade on certain items) it's because items ARENT SUPPOSED TO WORK THIS way, unid means you cannot see the mods and you should not know them until it is IDENTIFIED! perhaps you should look up those definitions and see what they mean, it makes a lot of sense.

Thank you for explaining to us what a.net intended to do with something when they programed it into the game :rolls eyes:

Real world definitions of something are always a terrible way to analyize gameplay. As it stands, its viable because people who buy stuff unided should know better. Buyer beware.

ArTy

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

Australia

Overclockers Australia [OCAU]

30 May 2007 at 05:54 - 40

I do agree it's unusual that you can know the properties of an unid item. Anet should have disabled this unid testing from the getgo in Proph.

Back when I was hunting for my Chaos Axe from CR I would pretest for the mod for a 15^50. First 6 Golds had garbage dmg mods (20^hex or nothing! etc) so I sold them off as unid for cheap. It was probably dishonest of me to sell the unid to people that would be hoping for a decent chance at a good mod, but I didn't design the flawed unid pre-testing system.

Eventually got a 15^50 and was over the moon and stopped hunting for axes

Most likely any rare skinned unid these days is garbage modded and it's your decision and risk to buy.