The Deep - Outside of the box build

Gregslot

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Me/

29 May 2007 at 19:53 - 1

Hello everyone, this thread is dedicated to create a different build for The Deep.
I will post a link at the orginial thread.

I thought on something different and that included the requirements to complete the mission. And possibily a better way to complete the whole mission. Unfortunately i couldnt think at all the skills, some because i dont know what to add, and other because the rest is irrelevant.

Ritualist: Communing/Channeling
[skill]Shadowsong[/skill][skill]splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Shelter[/skill][skill]Union[/skill][skill]Displacement[/skill][skill]Signet of Binding[/skill][skill]Wanderlust[/skill][skill]Boon of Creation[/skill]

Signet of binding is supposed to increase the life of a psirit to +210hp, wich is great if you use it at Shelter. Splinter weapon is for aoe spike at huge aggros. Wonderlust if made to kockdown any kanaxai serveral times

Ritualits: Restoration
[skill]Spirit Light[/skill][skill]Mend body and soul[/skill][skill]spirit transfer[/skill][skill]recuperation[/skill][skill]life[/skill][skill]preservation[/skill][skill]flesh of my flesh[/skill] EMPTY SLOT

Standard ritualist for party heal, and also good for single target heal. Preservation will help the tankers that will tank all the kanaxais and will be the spirit designed to be used to sacrifice life for spirit transfer and to use spirit light at the very last kanaxai, life will help at the very end to heal the party

Me/E: Domination/Evasion
[skill]Blurred Vision[/skill][skill]Spirit of failure[/skill][skill]shatter hex[/skill][skill]echo[/skill][skill]backfire[/skill][skill]drain enchantment[/skill][skill]empathy[/skill]EMPTY SLOT

Mesmer will be used to deal great aoe damage with shatter hex and help the healers by "blinding" several targets at once (spirit of failure must be used at a target with blind to mantain energy). Enchantment removal for the kanaxais, onis and carps.
Variants: [skill]mantra of recovery[/skill][skill]shatter enchantment[/skill]

E/Mo: Renemal Nuker
[skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]mark of rodgort[/skill][skill]rodgort's invocation[/skill][skill]fireball[/skill][skill]glyph of renewal[/skill][skill]meteor shower[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]rebirth[/skill]

Well, you got the idea. Must use glyph of renewal before every meteor shower. Use glyph of lesser energy, then mark of rodgort and rodgorts invocation after a meteor shower to add burn, damage and get plenty of energy back.

A/Mo: Full block and Death blossom Assassin
[skill]unsuspecting strike[/skill][skill]Wild Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill][skill]Critical Defenses[/skill][skill]Way of the assassin[/skill][skill]shadow of haste[/skill][skill]shadow refuge[/skill][skill]rebirth[/skill]

The best damage dealer in the party. The 75% chance to block will put you in advantage all the time. Spam death blossom at the big aggros to kick ass. Shadow of haste will be used to pull tagets properly, and to pull the last kanaxai.

P/W: Party Support
[skill]signet of synergy[/skill][skill]mending refrain[/skill][skill]song of restoration[/skill][skill]ballad of restoration[/skill][skill]aria of zeal[/skill][skill]"watch yourself!"[/skill][skill]"shields up!"[/skill][skill]signet of return[/skill]

*Now these are the builds that are incomplete

Ranger: Trapper
[skill]spike trap[/skill][skill]dust trap[/skill][skill]barbed trap[/skill][skill]serpent's quickness[/skill]

Set traps and "own" the badass aggros. Will help the group killing the kanaxai at the room where you cant use spells. Will go the room number three with the assassin and the first ritualist =]

2xWarrior: Standard Tank
[skill]Dolyak Signet[/skill]&Any knockdown

Well, thats about the only skill they will really need to carry. Presuming that the you can use the ritualists spirits to open the door at the third kanaxai, so they will not need Recall.

2x Monks: Healers
[skill]Light of Deliverance[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill]
possible second option: [skill]Healer's Boon[/skill][skill]Heal Party[/skill]

Dervish: Half tank + Aoe damage
[skill]Avatar of Balthazar[/skill][skill]Mystic Sweep[/skill][skill]victorious sweep[/skill][skill]Heart of fury[/skill][skill]heart of holy flame[/skill][skill]mystic vigor[/skill][skill]watchful intervention[/skill] (POSSIBLE RESS)

Self-healer tank with aoe damage, will do a splendid job with splinter weapon. Watchful intervention will be used on self and other.

I did thought about every room, because at each room you need a different plan.
At first, the team will be divided like this:
Rit(rest), Nuker and Dervish at room 1
Warrior, Paragon and monk at room 2
Rit(commu/chan), Ranger and Assassin at room 3
Warrior, Mesmer and Monk at room 4

*Room 1: Straight simples, tank and nuke, the aoe damage that both dervish and elementalist will deal will wipeout the spirits+carps. Ritualst will remove blind/daze with mend body and soul. Must spike the nuke at akanaxai for knockdowns.
*Room 2: Healing reduced, but paragon will help with heal, so just kill them, might take a while because the lack of damage. (idead for good damage dealer warriors are welcome)
*Room 3: This room will have most fo the fun. There isnt a proper heal, but at just pull the kanaxai first then draw him to the spirits so that Shadowsong and Wanderlust + traps and he wont stand a chance (the assassin will tank). The same goes for the carps, trap then pull, they will die fast (this has been done before, so it is possible)

*Room 4: Cant block, but the mesmer will help with the evasion (blurred vision) and will cancel the carp's heal (recomended to use backfire when targets hp drops below 50% and remove enchant). Take them one at a time if needed. (remember that shatter enchantment is one of the options, and the warrior CAN bring triple chop, but not needed)

So after that kill the second kanaxai, pull the krakens like usual.
To open the door, plant spirits at the switches, the door should open.

At the room where you cant use spells, use "shields up" to pass by the archers, then pull kanaxai and plant lots of spirits to overwhelm him. (paragon and monks will use signets to heal one in a while, but spirits will do most of the work)

At the room where you take damage when you move, players must set traps at the stairs and tank with whatever they got. Same plan, tank and nuke.
REMEMBER THAT THE RITUALIST MUST CAST SPLINTER WEAPON FOR AREA DAMAGE!

Take it all the way to the last room.
At the very end, players must knockdown kanaxai several times in order to make the spawns appear.
Once they do, plant spirits (and possibly some traps) at one side. Pull them to the spirits so that they will start attacking the spirits. If they do, they will probably stay at that side. If they do, charge in to kanaxai from the opposite side, keep on recasting Life so that it it will give +140 hp each 20 seconds. Plant a preservation next to the tanks so that they do not need to be healed as often. Splinter weapon will not be needed at this time. If someone dies, the paragon should be the one that will ressurect this person. Use Signet of Binding at Wanderlust or Displacement at this time. Mesmer should remove the enchantment, allways.

Well... thats it... so whatyall think? ^^

Yichi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Guild Hall, Vent, Guesting, PvE, or the occasional HA match...

Dark Alley [dR]

29 May 2007 at 20:09 - 2

dies like fish

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

Winter Wonderland [brrr]

W/E

29 May 2007 at 20:14 - 3

For Kanaxai, bring [skill]Inspired Enchantment[/skill] on the mesmer to remove his enchantment without a recharge.

Gregslot

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Me/

29 May 2007 at 20:24 - 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

Rebirth on the fire ele is a horrid idea... That Ele is already going to be short on energy having only fire attunement and glyph lesser to add/cut some energy loss, so losing the rest of it to res 1 person is a horrible idea. Res chant would be a much better option.

The assassin looks ok if you run into all melee mobs, but if you run into elemental damage, they have such little armor that they wont be able to stay in the front as much as you would like. whereas a warrior would with the higher armor.

The MoR/Shatter Mesmer with diversion would be much more efficient for enchant removal/shutdown that your other bar would. Of course, you wont ressurect them at the middle of the battle. The paragon or the ritualist should ress anyone at the middle of the battle.

Assassins arent supposed to tank the elemental damage, they wait for the warriors to tank and then go, if they are targeted, they scape! (i didnt had to say that, thats how you play with assassins)

Humm... diversion sounds nice for the end.

Levi Garett

Old School Nub

Join Date: Jun 2005

ABQ, NM

Guildless

Mo/Me

29 May 2007 at 22:06 - 5

I have this wierd feeling that you're going to end up going full circle back to the tried and true cookie cutter build, but hey props for trying to be different.

ryanryanryan0310

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

Scars Meadows [SMS]

29 May 2007 at 23:57 - 6

I was thinking about subing a splinter weapon restoration ritual for one of the monks. With cyclone axe on one of the warriors.

But the cookie cutter built works the best for this elite mission. Knockdowns are for the win....

Thom Bangalter

Grindin'

Join Date: Dec 2005

E/Mo

30 May 2007 at 00:00 - 7

this looks like it would take forever and would probably not work in HM.

Marth Reynolds

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

The Netherlands

The Lore Enforcers

Me/A

30 May 2007 at 07:33 - 8

It seems your assasin needs to make criticals to stay under 75% to block.. that won't work neither will the dervish:
-Carps blind a lot and need to hit with 2 attack skills to blind you once you are blinded you cannot keep the 75% block up and they'll blind you more, dervish will have practically no use for mystiv vigor here.
-Oni's teleport when attacked making you run after them every time they teleport and loosing time to score critcals or lose time to gain life from attacking, tanking won't work vs teleporting enemies at all.
-Nightmares have Spirit schackles so -5 energy on attack will render assasin and dervish energy-less.

You could get Melandru's Avatar to avoid blind but that's just a small part of the deep.

Rest seems that it will work, but i'd recommend war or paragon tanks as "steel wall" idea.

Sk8tborderx

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Us Are Not [leet]

30 May 2007 at 07:42 - 9

First: Spirit light weapon>>>>>>>preservation (seriously, preservation just sucks)

Second: Healers boon>>>>>LoD, at least in the deep.

Third: The current cookie cutter party setup will work faster, you have more aoe damage. The first rit you have is better than taking a 3rd ele, but everything else will simply slow down the run. (Replace splinter weapon with a rez, or NM weapon)

Gregslot

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Me/

30 May 2007 at 17:36 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marth Reynolds

Well... conditions will be no problem. (i presume you got the idea of assassin+critial defense)
At the room number 2 the Carps will hardly hit the assassin because the ranger will be using Dust Trap to blind the carps, Shadowsong will also keep on blinding them, Wanderlust will kock'em down (at least one of them), Displacement+Signet of Binding will add +75% block, and not to mention the 75% of critical defenses, so if they get through that... i dont even know what to say hahaha, they wont!
Room number 1 will have a ritualist with Mend Body and Soul... so no worries at all
Spirit Shackles its a hex, if it is used at a target that will be staying at the front line, thats good for us. Shatter Hex+Echo (or Mantra of Recall) will deal 140 AoE damage (wich is far batter then any meteor shower). So it will be good for us if they use it.
The only reasonable argument there is the Oni's Teleport. But it will only be a problem if the get pass through the spirits defenses and the blurred vision can comprimise their offensive

(wich is still half bad)

Preseration is good because it is easy to mantain it up 24/7, you cant expect to keep any spirit alive at the last room. (not to mention you can use it at the no-spell room).
So it will be impossible to use Spirit Light weapon at the rooms mentioned before.
Not to mention that you can only use spirit light, spirit tranfer and mend body and soul, if you have a spirit near you (so you cant be using any of these skills at the last room, wich is really really bad).
Not to mention you can put it next to the tank (lets presume there is only one, like the first room) and keep on healing it, not needing to stay close to the tank.
Not to mention that its a +1 spirit at your spirit wall

ryanryanryan0310, can you give any ideas of how making a ritualist like that? I presumed that at least 2 monks will be needed.
Splinter weapon must stay for, thats what will give more AoE damage then any stupid meteor shower.

1 splinter weapon doing 50 AoE damage with 4 hits = 200 AoE damage
1 splinter weapon in 4 targets doing 50 AoE damage with 4 hits = 800 AoE damage

That is why we are going to use the strategy of tanking and spiking.

Set traps, pull, nuke, then everyone attack with splinter weapon =]

EDIT: Im not a monk player, so i really have no idea what its good for a monk and etc. I have seen monks using healer's boon, so i presume it must be good, right?

royal mercenary

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

Glob Of Ectospasm [GoE]

Me/Rt

30 May 2007 at 18:52 - 11

dont bother what they say !
n1 builds but maybe a SS would help?

Gregslot

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Me/

30 May 2007 at 19:32 - 12

it could, of course....
but the point its to do something completly different =]

the SS will end up beeing like th standard SS build xD

Zinger314

Debbie Downer

Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

30 May 2007 at 20:28 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levi Garett

I have this wierd feeling that you're going to end up going full circle back to the tried and true cookie cutter build, but hey props for trying to be different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

the SS will end up beeing like th standard SS build xD QED. Thus it was demostrated.

Your build is too haphazard. If the Assassin or Dervish ever get targeted (and they will, after aggro constantly breaks from the mass AoE), they die instantly.

Not enough focus. And it's impossible to focus without exclusively using Warriors, Elementalists, and Monks. Thus the cycle begins anew...

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

30 May 2007 at 21:27 - 14

I will asusme that you are going to run hardmode deep (because its simply not that much harder)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

Ritualist: Communing/Channeling
[skill]Shadowsong[/skill][skill]splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Shelter[/skill][skill]Union[/skill][skill]Displacement[/skill][skill]Signet of Binding[/skill][skill]Wanderlust[/skill][skill]Boon of Creation[/skill]

Signet of binding is supposed to increase the life of a psirit to +210hp, wich is great if you use it at Shelter. Splinter weapon is for aoe spike at huge aggros. Wonderlust if made to kockdown any kanaxai serveral times

Union/Displacement is gonna last very VERY short time (Shelter on the other hand should never), binding signet makes hardly difference

If you want support rt, consider full blown chaneller.

Quote: Originally Posted by Gregslot
Ritualits: Restoration
[skill]Spirit Light[/skill][skill]Mend body and soul[/skill][skill]spirit transfer[/skill][skill]recuperation[/skill][skill]life[/skill][skill]preservation[/skill][skill]flesh of my flesh[/skill] EMPTY SLOT

Standard ritualist for party heal, and also good for single target heal. Preservation will help the tankers that will tank all the kanaxais and will be the spirit designed to be used to sacrifice life for spirit transfer and to use spirit light at the very last kanaxai, life will help at the very end to heal the party

soothing memories, etc etc.
point of resto rt are his unstripable weapon spells (namely, weapon of warding and/or resilient weapon), spirit transfer is terrible emanagement, AwS pot is simply way better. Preservation is random heal, which equals it to no heal.

Quote: Originally Posted by Gregslot
Me/E: Domination/Evasion
[skill]Blurred Vision[/skill][skill]Spirit of failure[/skill][skill]shatter hex[/skill][skill]echo[/skill][skill]backfire[/skill][skill]drain enchantment[/skill][skill]empathy[/skill]EMPTY SLOT

Mesmer will be used to deal great aoe damage with shatter hex and help the healers by "blinding" several targets at once (spirit of failure must be used at a target with blind to mantain energy). Enchantment removal for the kanaxais, onis and carps.
Variants: [skill]mantra of recovery[/skill][skill]shatter enchantment[/skill]
blurred vision != 'blinded', it is wasted skillslots. blinding flash+epidemic would actually achieve something. Shatter hex is unlikely to be source of major damage, as hexes are not that common, enchantements on the other hand.

Backfire seems pointless as most troublesome enemies simply hardly cast

Quote: Originally Posted by Gregslot
E/Mo: Renemal Nuker
[skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]mark of rodgort[/skill][skill]rodgort's invocation[/skill][skill]fireball[/skill][skill]glyph of renewal[/skill][skill]meteor shower[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]rebirth[/skill]

Well, you got the idea. Must use glyph of renewal before every meteor shower. Use glyph of lesser energy, then mark of rodgort and rodgorts invocation after a meteor shower to add burn, damage and get plenty of energy back.
renewall nukers are ... sooo 2005, this is age of searing flames eles, like it or not.

Quote: Originally Posted by Gregslot
A/Mo: Full block and Death blossom Assassin
[skill]unsuspecting strike[/skill][skill]Wild Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill][skill]Critical Defenses[/skill][skill]Way of the assassin[/skill][skill]shadow of haste[/skill][skill]shadow refuge[/skill][skill]rebirth[/skill]

The best damage dealer in the party. The 75% chance to block will put you in advantage all the time. Spam death blossom at the big aggros to kick ass. Shadow of haste will be used to pull tagets properly, and to pull the last kanaxai.
way of the assassin is wasted elite, if you want to block its "flashing blades", but you should want moebius strike. you want, assassin should be able to kd or disenchat easily, i dotn see your doing either of that. shaddow of haste is ... WTF

Not to mention assassin being liability whenever you encounter onis - he is gonna cause them to teleport and break aggro and he cannot hold wall. and your assassin has no stuff to help against kanaxai, i mean, nothing - deep wound, disenchant, kd, nothing, not even IAS to help trigger (imaginary) spinal shivers

wasted slot.

Quote: Originally Posted by Gregslot
P/W: Party Support
[skill]signet of synergy[/skill][skill]mending refrain[/skill][skill]song of restoration[/skill][skill]ballad of restoration[/skill][skill]aria of zeal[/skill][skill]"watch yourself!"[/skill][skill]"shields up!"[/skill][skill]signet of return[/skill]
a) you use paragon as full shouter, its waste, paragons are able to do awesome damage (deep would included, burning to help SF)
b) motivation is simply weak, research stuff like "They are on fire" and ''stand your ground", maybe even "Never Surrender (actually usefull at kanaxai)", those are the ones that make paragon worth takign to party.

WYS required adren, guess where gaining adren is damgerous for party - onis

Quote: Originally Posted by Gregslot
*Now these are the builds that are incomplete

Ranger: Trapper
[skill]spike trap[/skill][skill]dust trap[/skill][skill]barbed trap[/skill][skill]serpent's quickness[/skill]

Set traps and "own" the badass aggros. Will help the group killing the kanaxai at the room where you cant use spells. Will go the room number three with the assassin and the first ritualist =]
Well, wanting to actually fight kanaxai spawns smells of failure.

and, quite frank "lol" at room 3, it looks quite destined to fail (how is gonna trapper set up his traps? how the hell can assassin surive those kds.)

Your sins is based on keeping crit defences up. *cough* blind/daze/kds - more and faster than you rt can remove and once rt cant keep up, its done (rts simply dont have equivalent of healing seed to keep that sin alive)

Quote: Originally Posted by Gregslot
2xWarrior: Standard Tank
[skill]Dolyak Signet[/skill]&Any knockdown

Well, thats about the only skill they will really need to carry. Presuming that the you can use the ritualists spirits to open the door at the third kanaxai, so they will not need Recall.
deaths charge+recall has way more uses than that. namely to secure immediate aggro in variety of rooms or as fail safe when luring

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

2x Monks: Healers
[skill]Light of Deliverance[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill]
possible second option: [skill]Healer's Boon[/skill][skill]Heal Party[/skill]
who is gonna fuell their energy? heal party + healers boon screams of "my energy is 0 out of X".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

Dervish: Half tank + Aoe damage
[skill]Avatar of Balthazar[/skill][skill]Mystic Sweep[/skill][skill]victorious sweep[/skill][skill]Heart of fury[/skill][skill]heart of holy flame[/skill][skill]mystic vigor[/skill][skill]watchful intervention[/skill] (POSSIBLE RESS)

Self-healer tank with aoe damage, will do a splendid job with splinter weapon. Watchful intervention will be used on self and other.

Again, onis will make you regret taking this person to team (teleport 3 onis to your backline, ftw.)
heart of holy flame is redudant at best - you could consider mystic regen at its place. also, victorious sweep is bad considering hp levels of main enemies.

He also lacks endgame utility Rending Sweep would go long way in that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

I did thought about every room, because at each room you need a different plan.
At first, the team will be divided like this:
Rit(rest), Nuker and Dervish at room 1
Warrior, Paragon and monk at room 2
Rit(commu/chan), Ranger and Assassin at room 3
Warrior, Mesmer and Monk at room 4

*Room 1: Straight simples, tank and nuke, the aoe damage that both dervish and elementalist will deal will wipeout the spirits+carps. Ritualst will remove blind/daze with mend body and soul. Must spike the nuke at akanaxai for knockdowns.
*Room 2: Healing reduced, but paragon will help with heal, so just kill them, might take a while because the lack of damage. (idead for good damage dealer warriors are welcome)
*Room 3: This room will have most fo the fun. There isnt a proper heal, but at just pull the kanaxai first then draw him to the spirits so that Shadowsong and Wanderlust + traps and he wont stand a chance (the assassin will tank). The same goes for the carps, trap then pull, they will die fast (this has been done before, so it is possible)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

At the room where you cant use spells, use "shields up" to pass by the archers, then pull kanaxai and plant lots of spirits to overwhelm him. (paragon and monks will use signets to heal one in a while, but spirits will do most of the work)
Signets simply cant be enough, you really want to pull enemies to previvous room and ingore room if there are no chests.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

At the room where you take damage when you move, players must set traps at the stairs and tank with whatever they got. Same plan, tank and nuke.
REMEMBER THAT THE RITUALIST MUST CAST SPLINTER WEAPON FOR AREA DAMAGE!

Take it all the way to the last room.
At the very end, players must knockdown kanaxai several times in order to make the spawns appear.
Once they do, plant spirits (and possibly some traps) at one side. Pull them to the spirits so that they will start attacking the spirits. If they do, they will probably stay at that side. If they do, charge in to kanaxai from the opposite side, keep on recasting Life so that it it will give +140 hp each 20 seconds. Plant a preservation next to the tanks so that they do not need to be healed as often. Splinter weapon will not be needed at this time. If someone dies, the paragon should be the one that will ressurect this person. Use Signet of Binding at Wanderlust or Displacement at this time. Mesmer should remove the enchantment, allways.
Or you can save yourself possible party wipe and do the recall thing.

Quote: That is not a bad build for that rit, I use something similar in almost all of my groups, it makes the run go a LOT smoother. (Wanderlust FTW)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

Well... thats it... so whatyall think? ^^ rooms 3, 2 will die (in that oder), room 4 will have serious problem, room 1 will have to save them - if resto rt is able healer. if party survives edenial room, it is gonne be wiped at teleport room.

You didnt deal with teleport room, which is the only dangerous and challeging part of deep anyway.

You also didnt really do stuff i kinda expected you to do (corpse denial and other tricks.)

Gregslot

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Me/

30 May 2007 at 22:09 - 15

ryanryanryan0310

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

Scars Meadows [SMS]

30 May 2007 at 23:37 - 16

Your built might take about 3+ hours in normal mode, if it works......
With the standard cookie built I've done it under 1 1/2 hours in normal mode.

If you want a crazy built that might work here:

2 R/Rt barrage splinter weapon
1 E/Me searing flames echo nuker
2 A/ Flashing blades, with horns of the Ox combo
1 P/W "Stand your gound" "never surrender" Bladeturn Refrain "Watch Yourself!"
3 Mo/
1 N/Mo Bip, Spinal Shivers
1 Me/ Tank killer
1 Rt/ Wanderlust, restoration rit

Pull this out of my head in 5 minutes......Looks shaky but I think it mite work..
Sin and Paragon tank and everyone else heal or kill chit....

Flame me now........

Sk8tborderx

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Us Are Not [leet]

30 May 2007 at 23:51 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

I will asusme that you are going to run hardmode deep (because its simply not that much harder)

Union/Displacement is gonna last very VERY short time (Shelter on the other hand should never), binding signet makes hardly difference

If you want support rt, consider full blown chaneller.

renewall nukers are ... sooo 2005, this is age of searing flames eles, like it or not. Renewal nukers work great in the deep, and when using only 2 eles, it is simply better than SF.

I agree with you on everything else though.

vdz

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

31 May 2007 at 01:28 - 18

Fullprot

with Spirit Bond / PS / Guardian / Glyph of Lesser Energy / Aegis / Rebirth. Or instead of guardian bring Extinguish.

I used this build several times in the deep hm and it worked great. When you got 2 monks bringing Healparty combined with HB or one HB and one LoD that is more than enough for the degen areas. I noticed that lots of times the monks cast heal party at the same time or short after eachother. Just overkill and not needed. Monk is best at protting and really you can save allot of asses with it.

IGN : Desiderias Erasmus

pm me and ill show you.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

31 May 2007 at 07:48 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

Holy cow... no offense, but you said a lot of crap back there.
These are obviously the kind fo things you never tryed.
And i see you criticising, and where are the advices? Where are the ideas you have? Did you wasted your time replying just to say "this is crap, this is crap... this is... old (??)" ?
Have you ever used or had Blurred Vision when doing melee? (not a retoric question, i really want to know)
You also didint do lots of stuff i expect you to do. I wont waste my time explaining the obvious (glyph of renewal old? when that happened).
Dont want to sound offensive. These are kind of... ermm... noob comments :/

After the "you need Warriors, Monks and Eles to focus" i have nothing to say (narrow-minded???)
I didint expected you here Zinger, came all the way to say "this isnt going to work" ?

People actually whispered me in-game to talk about the build, to add as a friend because wanted to try it out.

Well... still waiting for constructive arguments, ideas. wow, is that reply to me?

what i gave you is my honest opinion, i am not going to wrap it in nice package.

and if you want to pretend that i gave you no constructive coments you can

every time i snickered at skill, i gave alternatives, you seem to completelly ignore my point about blurred vision and how it is sharply inferior to blinding blash/epidemic. and did similar thing for each build i criticised. Obvioulsy, you do not want to listen. yeah, waste of my time.

fyi, blurred is usefull only in hex overload builds where you can stack it with other miss hexes (you have only ... one other of those.) to capitalise its long durations. (btw, mantra can remove hexes, but cant conditions, cough.). In deep you do not want long fights.

Solus Spartan

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

Australia

[Lawl]

Mo/

31 May 2007 at 08:02 - 20

Why is a Elite mission build posted in the Farming Section shouldn't it be in theCantha explorers section? Doing a mission isn't farming it.

Cacheelma

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Ascalon Union

Me/Mo

31 May 2007 at 10:49 - 21

Did you just say you want to use Wanderlust to....knockdown Kanaxai?

Seriously? In that degen-forever room?

Kanaxai moves fast; he can dodge Wanderlust's projectile while he's running away (assuming that you're pulling him out of his lair to knock him down. Don't tell me you're going to use a rit to get in there and plant wanderlust near him or we'll have to have a very long conversation) back to his lair after 1st knockdown.

And because your Wanderlust won't last long, 2-3 miss shots = all you're gonna get. Now you have half dozen or more Sapping Nightmares to clean up.

I don't even wanna ask who's going to pull him out AND go back to your team without dragging the nightmares along with him. None of your builds is strong enough to take more than 3 hits from Kanaxai or able to teleport back like W/A w/ recall.

My suggestion, you say? 3 W/As, 3 E/Me, 4 HB+HP Monks, 1 SS necro and 1 BiP necro.

What are the reasons for you to make this so-called "out of the box" team build again? Are there something wrong with the conventional build? If so, do you care to point it out to us?

Is it because the conventional build uses only 4 classes? Well, I don't see 10 classes in your build either. So what is it?

Prize_check_asker

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

31 May 2007 at 11:00 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

What are the reasons for you to make this so-called "out of the box" team build again? I guess the reason of this build is that ritualists, assasins and others would be more wanted in Deep, more meaning to make other characters than the most wanted/needed ones ;/

good build if it works :I , tho I will stick to the old one cause it works fast and easy.

vdz

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

31 May 2007 at 11:15 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

Cacheelma

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Ascalon Union

Me/Mo

31 May 2007 at 11:46 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdz

Can you please explain why you need 4 HB with HP ? It seriously is an overkill and really not needed. When you got 2 monks with HB+HP its more than enough. Get one prot instead, works better.

The total point here is that people dont think further. Yes there are more ways to Rome. Is that conventional deep build the only way? no it isnt
Is it the fastest? maybe.

Did you really miss the point? The suggestion I made is basically just "Go use the conventional build", which, has 4 HB+Hp Monks (and still nearly not enough in some degen-heavy/poinson-heavy rooms) AND a BiPper to help with energy (something you don't have in this....build. God knows how you can manage, but good luck).

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdz

But some things can be improved I agree. But are you telling me that the OP's build is "better"?

As I asked earlier, please point out the flaw in the conventional build so we can start making something "better".

vdz

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

31 May 2007 at 12:14 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

urm are you kidding me? Presuming you have 16 in healing prayers 6 in prot and 11 in divine favor. HB+HP = 126 hp . if you got 2 hb+hp monks thats 252 health points. Not enough? Cmon maybe you will get in trouble when they continuously cast it together but still it should be oke.When the tank is going to lure put some prot on him and when he/she is further away cast Aegis which should give him the time to to return safely.
Seriously 2 HB + HP is more than enough or 1 LoD+HP and HB+HP. When you say 4 HB+HP is nearly not enough i tend to laugh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

I agree. But are you telling me that the OP's build is "better"? uhm no i dont

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

As I asked earlier, please point out the flaw in the conventional build so we can start making something "better". 4 HB+HP or 3 HB+HP and 1 LoD+HP is overkill. Bring prot monk with some good reflexes. Saves allot of DP.

Cacheelma

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Ascalon Union

Me/Mo

31 May 2007 at 13:50 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdz

uhm no i dont

4 HB+HP or 3 HB+HP and 1 LoD+HP is overkill. Bring prot monk with some good reflexes. Saves allot of DP. You're talking "Theory". I'm talking "experience".

No offense but, have you ever played in The Deep with proper "Conventional" build, and beaten Kanaxai?

The conventional build I post (3W/As, 3 E/Mes, 4 Monks, 2 Necros) is something people are using RIGHT NOW in the Deep, not something I made up by myself by "reading" the skill listing.

You can bring any number of monks you want to, but please consider the fact that you MUST split into 4 groups of 3 people in the first area. With only 1 monk you'll have only 1 "active" room that has only 3 people. And it's this group of 3 people that must clear out the second room filled with mobs AND go into other rooms and kill mobs in them to bring out other people.

With 2 monks that'd be 2 active rooms, which I'd say it's a bit more managable but still not as effective.

If you don't get what I'm talking about, please go try the Deep out before you try to reply.

JONO51

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

31 May 2007 at 16:21 - 27

I think you should stick to a searing flames nuker and add to the paragon "They're On Fire!" to make the enemies deal less damage.

Sk8tborderx

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Us Are Not [leet]

31 May 2007 at 17:38 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

Cacheelma

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Ascalon Union

Me/Mo

01 Jun 2007 at 05:12 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

Having a ritualist with wanderlust and shadowsong is great, even more effective then a nuker. Have the 3 warriors "box" kanaxai in, then let the rit spam his spirits. If you cannot find out a way to make the spirit survive in the degen room, I suggest you make a rit.

I understand and agree that a Rit would be very helpful there.

But the point I tried to make with that post is that you don't have someone who can get in there, knockdown Kanaxai TWICE to spawn the sapping nightmares AND then come back to your team without dragging the nightmares back with him.

I think that's the important part for W/A with recall, not just the gate-opening trick.

So I'd say, the 2 warriors in this new build should still be W/As with recall. I have to say we're getting closer to the conventional build though....