Allow us to sell/buy Passage Scrolls through them. Perhaps even tomes!
_Zexion
Give Scroll Traders a real use
Zexion
VinnyRidira
I agree - but the title hunters wont.
McMullen
The scroll traders prices are affected by supply and demand like rune traders and dye traders, so i really can't understand what the title hunters would be complaining about if tomes were sold (also taking into consideration that you'll need to unlock the skill first anyway)
/signed anyway for passage scrolls.
/signed anyway for passage scrolls.
savage vapor 33
/signed for passage scrolls.
/notsigned for elite tomes.
/signed for non-elite tomes.
/notsigned for elite tomes.
/signed for non-elite tomes.
Gimme Money Plzkthx
/signed completely, as long as it's subject to supply and demand, not fixed.
MagmaRed
/not signed
Passage Scrolls allow you to enter FoW and UW when your region does not have favor. If they allow you to buy Passage Scrolls, they should just open FoW and UW to all regardless of favor, and increase the entrance fee. Making people earn the Passage Scrolls by killing stuff in Hard Mode is a worthy requirement. Yes, you can buy them from other players, but that requires SOMEONE to find the Passage Scroll, and for you to find a seller.
Tomes I don't see much of an issue with, and they could be set at a standard 1k price. Make people decide if they should buy it from the trainer, or buy a scroll. Would only help those that don't have Skill Points to spend.
Elite Tomes, no. Even making it supply/demand based for availability and price, it makes the title seekers job too easy. PvP players who dabble in PvE could then easily get a title that would take considerable time and knowledge, with no time or knowledge needed. Plus, it allows for the level 10 and under scrubs to 'cheat' in the Ascalon, Shing Jea, and Istani Arenas. I know... they can still 'cheat' by buying them from another player, or getting it on another character and using Storage... but why make it easier.
Passage Scrolls allow you to enter FoW and UW when your region does not have favor. If they allow you to buy Passage Scrolls, they should just open FoW and UW to all regardless of favor, and increase the entrance fee. Making people earn the Passage Scrolls by killing stuff in Hard Mode is a worthy requirement. Yes, you can buy them from other players, but that requires SOMEONE to find the Passage Scroll, and for you to find a seller.
Tomes I don't see much of an issue with, and they could be set at a standard 1k price. Make people decide if they should buy it from the trainer, or buy a scroll. Would only help those that don't have Skill Points to spend.
Elite Tomes, no. Even making it supply/demand based for availability and price, it makes the title seekers job too easy. PvP players who dabble in PvE could then easily get a title that would take considerable time and knowledge, with no time or knowledge needed. Plus, it allows for the level 10 and under scrubs to 'cheat' in the Ascalon, Shing Jea, and Istani Arenas. I know... they can still 'cheat' by buying them from another player, or getting it on another character and using Storage... but why make it easier.
Kale Ironfist
MagmaRed: Just to correct you, traders only sell what they've been sold. So there is no distinct difference if a player buys a Passage Scroll from a trader, and buying one from a player.
The difference is that one is a player to player trade, and the other involves a third party middleman. Generally, it's easier to facilitate trade through a third party.
The difference is that one is a player to player trade, and the other involves a third party middleman. Generally, it's easier to facilitate trade through a third party.
Slim
/signed on passage scrolls
being able to buy tomes at a trader would kinda defeat the purpose imo, well non elite ones atleast but styll the elite ones is questionable
being able to buy tomes at a trader would kinda defeat the purpose imo, well non elite ones atleast but styll the elite ones is questionable
Zexion
Wow, suprisingly many seem to completely miss the point of a trader:
SUPPLY & DEMAND
Why all the talk of fixed prices?
Making them available at trader is the same as it is currently, minus the tedious "WTS/WTB" spamming and the pricechecks. Those are done automatically at a trader. The prices will, just as it is now, be adjusted according to whether or not the certain tome or scroll is desired.
And magmared, that attitude to elite tomes. "It makes it easier to do something that you can do anyways, so why give people an easier time, let them grind for it". I know ANet has not held completely true to it, but GW is still one of the less grind-heavy MMOs out there.
Why encourage having people waste time? Are you a sadist?
_Zexion
SUPPLY & DEMAND
Why all the talk of fixed prices?
Making them available at trader is the same as it is currently, minus the tedious "WTS/WTB" spamming and the pricechecks. Those are done automatically at a trader. The prices will, just as it is now, be adjusted according to whether or not the certain tome or scroll is desired.
And magmared, that attitude to elite tomes. "It makes it easier to do something that you can do anyways, so why give people an easier time, let them grind for it". I know ANet has not held completely true to it, but GW is still one of the less grind-heavy MMOs out there.
Why encourage having people waste time? Are you a sadist?
_Zexion
bilateralrope
MagmaRed, I can see what your getting at for not wanting elite tomes on the trader. Though with having to first unlock with balth, then farm for gold to buy the tome, I'm not so sure they will be able to get the title any quicker.
Also have you considered the casual seller ?
How would they go about knowing what price to sell the tome for ?
Once they somehow figure out a good price, how much time will they spend standing around trying to sell it ?
Now why force them to do that if they don't like it and would prefer to be out playing guild wars ? (if they like it, the trader won't stop them)
/signed for all 3
Also have you considered the casual seller ?
How would they go about knowing what price to sell the tome for ?
Once they somehow figure out a good price, how much time will they spend standing around trying to sell it ?
Now why force them to do that if they don't like it and would prefer to be out playing guild wars ? (if they like it, the trader won't stop them)
/signed for all 3
Yawgmoth
It makes a lot of sense.
All of those items are already buyable from people in towns, but often either selling a scroll or tome or buying one takes some time wasted on spamming WTS/WTB in overspammed towns.
Even worse than the time wasted is the inventory space they take. Most people don't remember it, but it was exactly the same with Runes, before the Rune trader npc got added. Since then i've never had to dedicate an inventory slot to keeping a rune i may want to use later.
20 kinds of tomes equals 20 needed slots, huge lots of them drop in hardmode so they just keep coming. If a trader for tome existed it would mean clear inventory of them and more free time.
Same with mods and inscriptions... they need a trader npc even more.
/signed for all scrolls and all tomes
All of those items are already buyable from people in towns, but often either selling a scroll or tome or buying one takes some time wasted on spamming WTS/WTB in overspammed towns.
Even worse than the time wasted is the inventory space they take. Most people don't remember it, but it was exactly the same with Runes, before the Rune trader npc got added. Since then i've never had to dedicate an inventory slot to keeping a rune i may want to use later.
20 kinds of tomes equals 20 needed slots, huge lots of them drop in hardmode so they just keep coming. If a trader for tome existed it would mean clear inventory of them and more free time.
Same with mods and inscriptions... they need a trader npc even more.
/signed for all scrolls and all tomes
MagmaRed
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zexion
Wow, suprisingly many seem to completely miss the point of a trader:
SUPPLY & DEMAND Why all the talk of fixed prices? Making them available at trader is the same as it is currently, minus the tedious "WTS/WTB" spamming and the pricechecks. Those are done automatically at a trader. The prices will, just as it is now, be adjusted according to whether or not the certain tome or scroll is desired. And magmared, that attitude to elite tomes. "It makes it easier to do something that you can do anyways, so why give people an easier time, let them grind for it". I know ANet has not held completely true to it, but GW is still one of the less grind-heavy MMOs out there. Why encourage having people waste time? Are you a sadist? _Zexion |
Rod Adams
/signed
/signed
/signed
bilateralrope
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
You call it 'grinding' and 'wasting time'. I call it playing the game.
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Also are you going to say how the current system is good for the current seller ? (see my previous post)
Zexion
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
You call it 'grinding' and 'wasting time'. I call it playing the game.
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But GW has sold over 3 million copies. To be realistic, that's probably 1.5 million unique users, and perhaps 1 million is active.
So, how many % of those 1 million do you think has the same view on spamming WTS as you do?
2-3%?
That's 20000-30000. The rest of the 970000-980000 who play the game, what about those? Should they be forced to stand around trading, while they would rather be out killing things, just because a minority says so?
I can see your PoV, but you seem to miss ANets. They don't wanna sacrifice the happiness of 98% of their customers for the happiness of 2% of their customers.
_Zexion
MagmaRed
If your concern is selling them, then I am all for having merchants buy them from people. I have every skill unlocked on my account. Every one of my characters has every skill for thier primary profession unlocked. Some of my characters have every skill for a secondary unlocked as well. Because of this, I have NO need for tomes. When I get tomes to drop, I use them though. Either I learn a skill I 'may' use down the road, or I have a character work at acquiring all the skills in the game. Worthwhile uses? Not really, but I don't want to waste my time selling them for meager amounts of gold. If I could sell them to a merchant, I would most likely. However, for people to acquire these items without playing Hard Mode, or buying them from someone who did, it unbalances the game.
Why should a PvP player with enough Balthazar Faction to unlock Verata's Sacrifice be able to buy that skill in Ascalon, instead of waiting until they can get to Copperhammer Mines. Why should players who have not earned skill points be able to acquire new skills? It isn't a HUGE imbalance to allow this, but I think the current method is fine. Tomes allow you to do more than you normally could. But getting a tome is not something you can do without a little time and effort.
I would actually prefer they updated the use of Tomes so that they can only be used by someone who has beaten the game. I don't even mean have Hard Mode unlocked. If you have 5 characters, and have beaten the game with only 1 character, all 5 can do Hard Mode. But I'd like to see ONLY the 1 character who beat the game be able to use Tomes.... and maybe, Lockpicks as well.
Why should a PvP player with enough Balthazar Faction to unlock Verata's Sacrifice be able to buy that skill in Ascalon, instead of waiting until they can get to Copperhammer Mines. Why should players who have not earned skill points be able to acquire new skills? It isn't a HUGE imbalance to allow this, but I think the current method is fine. Tomes allow you to do more than you normally could. But getting a tome is not something you can do without a little time and effort.
I would actually prefer they updated the use of Tomes so that they can only be used by someone who has beaten the game. I don't even mean have Hard Mode unlocked. If you have 5 characters, and have beaten the game with only 1 character, all 5 can do Hard Mode. But I'd like to see ONLY the 1 character who beat the game be able to use Tomes.... and maybe, Lockpicks as well.
Yawgmoth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
...
Why should a PvP player with enough Balthazar Faction to unlock Verata's Sacrifice be able to buy that skill in Ascalon, instead of waiting until they can get to Copperhammer Mines. ... |
Got the skill unlocked? the Ascalon skill trainer has it too! (core and prophecies skills only, for others see skill trainers in their respective continents)
The real change tomes made is easy giving Elite Skills to new characters, which I think is a bit too much. For elite tomes there should be some restriction, like req level 20 or only Ascended characters.
MithranArkanere
THey could be much more important...
All the scrolls (including lightbringer's)... all the tomes... plus some potions to mana ge a bit of DP (including that one acquired in the angish).
All the scrolls (including lightbringer's)... all the tomes... plus some potions to mana ge a bit of DP (including that one acquired in the angish).
Orinn
/signed for all.
Normal tomes really aren't unbalancing at all, since they're identical to going to any skill trainer for a campaign and just buying the skill.
Elite tomes I can see somewhat, but I think the market will keep prices on these fairly high anyway. The Elite Tomes are in the game, which means that the imbalances they could create already exist. Whether it's buying them on a high-level character and putting them in storage, or buying them directly from a trader, ANet has allowed elites to be learned very early in the game.
FoW/UW scrolls, probably would bring the prices on them way down. Not a bad thing, means more people can get in and play.
Normal tomes really aren't unbalancing at all, since they're identical to going to any skill trainer for a campaign and just buying the skill.
Elite tomes I can see somewhat, but I think the market will keep prices on these fairly high anyway. The Elite Tomes are in the game, which means that the imbalances they could create already exist. Whether it's buying them on a high-level character and putting them in storage, or buying them directly from a trader, ANet has allowed elites to be learned very early in the game.
FoW/UW scrolls, probably would bring the prices on them way down. Not a bad thing, means more people can get in and play.
bilateralrope
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
If your concern is selling them, then I am all for having merchants buy them from people.
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What about when the market changes ?(eg ANET changes drop rate, or a large portion of players acquire all the skills they want for a particular class)
Too low and your not being fair to the people who hate trade spamming. To high and you destroy the market for them. And then there is the inflation caused if this merchant just takes them for deletion.
Traders however have a dynamically adjusted price, and because of the gap between their buy and sell prices, cause a net removal of gold (except for the items at minimum price).
Quote:
| However, for people to acquire these items without playing Hard Mode, or buying them from someone who did, it unbalances the game. |
Quote:
| Why should a PvP player with enough Balthazar Faction to unlock Verata's Sacrifice be able to buy that skill in Ascalon, instead of waiting until they can get to Copperhammer Mines. |
Quote:
| Why should players who have not earned skill points be able to acquire new skills? |
Quote:
| It isn't a HUGE imbalance to allow this, but I think the current method is fine. Tomes allow you to do more than you normally could. But getting a tome is not something you can do without a little time and effort. |
Quote:
| I would actually prefer they updated the use of Tomes so that they can only be used by someone who has beaten the game. I don't even mean have Hard Mode unlocked. If you have 5 characters, and have beaten the game with only 1 character, all 5 can do Hard Mode. But I'd like to see ONLY the 1 character who beat the game be able to use Tomes.... and maybe, Lockpicks as well. |
gameshoes3003
As convenient as passage scrolls being sold by merchants would be, there wouldn't be a point of favor divine favor would there?
Seriously, as stated before the scrolls are meant to be used if your area does not have favor, having merchants sell them can pretty much defeat the purpose of the Hall of Heroes for favor (aside from 8v8 fights not in the guild).
Also, tomes wouldn't make much sense, this is when we go to the skill trainer. Seriously. I have nearly every warrior skill and ranger skill and my guys still have over 30 skill points, it isn't that hard to get skill points. Also be smart about which skills you pick first as well. Selling non-elites tomes at 1k doesn't really fit well. Sure you can buy it if you're at level 1... But seriously, just level up and do missions and you'll be absolutely fine.
Elite tomes. I just have to say a flat no. If you want an elite, go through the trouble of capping as the others did before you.
/notsigned on all three
Seriously, as stated before the scrolls are meant to be used if your area does not have favor, having merchants sell them can pretty much defeat the purpose of the Hall of Heroes for favor (aside from 8v8 fights not in the guild).
Also, tomes wouldn't make much sense, this is when we go to the skill trainer. Seriously. I have nearly every warrior skill and ranger skill and my guys still have over 30 skill points, it isn't that hard to get skill points. Also be smart about which skills you pick first as well. Selling non-elites tomes at 1k doesn't really fit well. Sure you can buy it if you're at level 1... But seriously, just level up and do missions and you'll be absolutely fine.
Elite tomes. I just have to say a flat no. If you want an elite, go through the trouble of capping as the others did before you.
/notsigned on all three
bilateralrope
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gameshoes3003
As convenient as passage scrolls being sold by merchants would be, there wouldn't be a point of favor divine favor would there?
Seriously, as stated before the scrolls are meant to be used if your area does not have favor, having merchants sell them can pretty much defeat the purpose of the Hall of Heroes for favor (aside from 8v8 fights not in the guild). |
Besides, scrolls are already tradeable. Traders just keep the prices stable and remove the need to use spam to buy and sell them.
Quote:
| Also, tomes wouldn't make much sense, this is when we go to the skill trainer. Seriously. I have nearly every warrior skill and ranger skill and my guys still have over 30 skill points, it isn't that hard to get skill points. Also be smart about which skills you pick first as well. Selling non-elites tomes at 1k doesn't really fit well. |
Quote:
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Sure you can buy it if you're at level 1... But seriously, just level up and do missions and you'll be absolutely fine. Elite tomes. I just have to say a flat no. If you want an elite, go through the trouble of capping as the others did before you. |
And where is the harm from the existence of a trader for them ?
Also don't tomes make it easier to rebuild your character if you decide to delete and remake it to take advantage of the hair/face options in other chapters ? (assuming you could afford to buy them)
watrah
tome trader = more new noobs + no need to do quests(mean remove quest we dont need xp for skill point amd skills)
scroll UW/FOW trader = who need faver then close Hall of hero
more trader = more lazy ppl who want to sell super fast and get rich, cus they dont want to set there and sell there stuff.
if u dont want to west ur time sell ur thing for 50% down or 25% then u dont need to west ur time trying to sell ur thing for 100k+xxe.
one more thing make use of pary search I know its problem for not take all what u want to sell and I hope they fix it but realy it will solve the problem of spammer and ur item will bw send for all Dis right.
/notsigned on all three trader
scroll UW/FOW trader = who need faver then close Hall of hero
more trader = more lazy ppl who want to sell super fast and get rich, cus they dont want to set there and sell there stuff.
if u dont want to west ur time sell ur thing for 50% down or 25% then u dont need to west ur time trying to sell ur thing for 100k+xxe.
one more thing make use of pary search I know its problem for not take all what u want to sell and I hope they fix it but realy it will solve the problem of spammer and ur item will bw send for all Dis right.
/notsigned on all three trader
bilateralrope
Forum Rules
Except the scrolls will be more expensive than the skills from the trainers (especially with the new character discount), and new players won't have the skills unlocked so the tomes won't work for them.
See my previous post, then tell me what purpose the favor system currently has.
Ok I have no idea what the current value of the tomes are. Could you please tell me how I'm able to easily work that out so that when I find them I know what price to ask for. And what price to look for when buying so I'm not ripped off.
bw ?
And people don't currently seem to be using the party search window for LFG's (which it does work for) so what makes you think they will use it for trading when the character limit is too short for that ?
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9. Do Not Abuse the English Language This is a message board, not a chat room. DO NOT use "Leet-Speak", slang or chat lingo our forums. Avoid Colloquial writing. This can best be described as "writing in the way that one would speak." It is an informal, slang style of English that should be reserved primarily for speech, as it can seem unprofessional and sloppy in written text. A casual tone can be interpreted positively in person with face-to-face contact, but can be perceived negatively in writing. As such, you have all the time necessary to articulate your posts in a coherent matter. "You" is only two more letters than "u." It will not kill you to type them. Completely illegible posts are subject to moderation - and I can not guarantee their accuracy of 'translating' the author’s original message. Additionally, when one punctuation works instead of 10 (example: ? instead of ?!?!), use one. |
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Originally Posted by watrah
tome trader = more new noobs + no need to do quests(mean remove quest we dont need xp for skill point amd skills)
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| scroll UW/FOW trader = who need faver then close Hall of hero |
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more trader = more lazy ppl who want to sell super fast and get rich, cus they dont want to set there and sell there stuff. if u dont want to west ur time sell ur thing for 50% down or 25% then u dont need to west ur time trying to sell ur thing for 100k+xxe. |
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one more thing make use of pary search I know its problem for not take all what u want to sell and I hope they fix it but realy it will solve the problem of spammer and ur item will bw send for all Dis right.
|
And people don't currently seem to be using the party search window for LFG's (which it does work for) so what makes you think they will use it for trading when the character limit is too short for that ?
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| /notsigned on all three trader |
watrah
If you don't know the price of an item try to put a estimation price or check guru because any drop you find there is other who find it before you and already post a start price for it
And if it happen that you was the first one to find it then that will be your lucky day put estimation price that u feel it worth it then start selling if it didn’t go with the price you set it start lowering down by time you will sell it and you will know in the future how much you will sell it again ones it drop again for you (Fixed my Language as you requested )
And if it happen that you was the first one to find it then that will be your lucky day put estimation price that u feel it worth it then start selling if it didn’t go with the price you set it start lowering down by time you will sell it and you will know in the future how much you will sell it again ones it drop again for you (Fixed my Language as you requested
)
MithranArkanere
Language may be fixed... but punctuation and capitals would help, mate...
Checking pages is a nonsense. Specially for list in forums and action pages.
Why? Because there is always someone dumb, or greedy, or with bots, etc... that pay much more than the average, increasing the price for all, making the price there be MUCH higher that the price players usually pay.
If someone pays 100k+1500e for a black dye should the rest pay that? No, of course not.
Traders are the best way to prevent such things.
The only way to balance prices is INGAME, with ingame systems.
Hall of heroes favor system is going to be changed. And the main reason to do it is not to get the favor. Is to get the items and the hero points, mate.
Checking pages is a nonsense. Specially for list in forums and action pages.
Why? Because there is always someone dumb, or greedy, or with bots, etc... that pay much more than the average, increasing the price for all, making the price there be MUCH higher that the price players usually pay.
If someone pays 100k+1500e for a black dye should the rest pay that? No, of course not.
Traders are the best way to prevent such things.
The only way to balance prices is INGAME, with ingame systems.
Hall of heroes favor system is going to be changed. And the main reason to do it is not to get the favor. Is to get the items and the hero points, mate.
bilateralrope
Quote:
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Originally Posted by watrah
If you don't know the price of an item try to put a estimation price or check guru because any drop you find there is other who find it before you and already post a start price for it
|
Quote:
| And if it happen that you was the first one to find it then that will be your lucky day |
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| put estimation price that u feel it worth it then start selling if it didn’t go with the price you set it start lowering down by time you will sell it and you will know in the future how much you will sell it again ones it drop again for you |
You know I always thought that computer games were about doing things you enjoy, but I don't see how I could enjoy doing that. So why should we be forced to do things we don't enjoy when there are systems which remove the need to do that without harming other players ?
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(Fixed my Language as you requested )
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