ridding GW of bots without banning real players!!!! - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

D8tura

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

03 Jun 2007 at 08:48 - 1

hey guys I was brain storming and i think I have a good idea.....

PLEASE READE THIS ANET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me start by telling you a good friend was a hard core farmer and was banned for being a bot.

long story short he plays WOW and will not think of GW ever again...

way to go ANET

a good friend I met here (GW) is gone and i can not play with him again

there should have been a good system in place if arena net detected "bot like activity" to rule out a real player and give him the benefit of the doubt. A lot of sites make you type in a code you see on the screen (ticketmaster, account sites...etc....) to prove your are actually a real person. If you display "bot like activity" and anena net thinks you are a bot there should be a warning instantly that pops up on your screen that says so and that you need to enter the code you see or your account will be banned. If you enter what you see you are legit - bots cannot do that. I think this would be an easier way to handle the problem than banning farmers like a salem witch hunt. It's sad people are afraid to farm and play the way they want to because they think they will be banned...

what do you guys think????

let's work together to end this so we can enjoy the game

majoho

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Denmark

03 Jun 2007 at 09:16 - 2

Anyone notice that 99% of the time, it's 'friends' of banned players that complain - why is that?

For real I think they should not bother with bots at all, and ban gold byers instead then the bots will disappear.

Cacheelma

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Ascalon Union

Me/Mo

03 Jun 2007 at 09:34 - 3

I didn't know you can use bot freely in WoW?

Otherwise, why move there when you're going to get banned again anyway, right?

Njaiguni Blaze

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

The Netherlands

The Biggyverse [PLEB]

Me/

03 Jun 2007 at 11:18 - 4

iirc, you do get warnings before banning. Both in temporary bans as in your ing chat screen. Also, bots fund GW. For every 1000 accounts they ban, another 1000 will be bought. And I don't see what everyone's problem with bots is anyway. I mean, they do no harm to you, do they? I mean, they didn't sell the materials and runes to the traders so much that they are worth scrap now.

the_jos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Hard Mode Legion [HML]

N/

03 Jun 2007 at 11:31 - 5

Quote:

A lot of sites make you type in a code you see on the screen (ticketmaster, account sites...etc....) to prove your are actually a real person. If you display "bot like activity" and anena net thinks you are a bot there should be a warning instantly that pops up on your screen that says so and that you need to enter the code you see or your account will be banned.

This will only work if you are 100% sure that there is no-one looking at the bots.
For a professional botter, there would still be profit if they monitor their bots and act upon these kinds of events.
I think a person with a fair amount of programming knowledge (someone designed the botting programs) would have not that much problem building a monitoring interface that pops up when there is a certain event (like whisp or text on schreen). This gives a human monitoring these events the oppurtunity to react accordingly.
I think it's not unusual for a professional botter to have numerous bots in various online games and monitor them.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

03 Jun 2007 at 11:42 - 6

You are talking about catpcha.

Besides reall people supervising bots, there is trick to get around any catpcha:

Make website with whatever desirable (porn/torrents/warez ...) then use catpcha - but not yours generated, isntead display catpcha you want to solve, and accept any input. if there are no queued catpchas to be solved, do not require it.

That way any visitor will solve catpcha for you (within minutes...), and you can feed result to wherver original catpcha came from.

Neat trick, eh?

Dawgboy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Ohio

Antisocial Misfit

03 Jun 2007 at 12:02 - 7

ANET's reaction to the botting is causing me far more grief than the bots themselves ever did.

They totally nerfed farming, and getting enough gold through regular playing is nearly impossible.
The new loot-scaling doesn't mean a thing to the botters-after all, the bots run the same place endlessly, and the anti-farming code used to kick in after a few runs. They get almost the same amount now as they did before.

i can't believe their solution to stopping ebayed gold is to make it so casual players can't earn enough on their own unless they dedicate thier lives to farming, and then banning them when they do.

Here's my idea of what should be done:
-Repeal the LS fiasco
-Have farm code kick in HARD after about 6 runs
-Go after the buyers as well as sellers
-Have decent gold rewards for doing the missions and quests. Not the "You get 250gold for completing mission" crap- make it more like 1k-4k depending on the difficulty. If the average player can make enough to buy a few skills or runes just by actually playing he won't even THINK about buying gold. There will always be a few spoiled children who'll try to cheat their way through, but it's a very small minority.

pamelf

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Australia

Lost Templars [LoTe]

Me/Mo

03 Jun 2007 at 12:06 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njaiguni Blaze

iirc, you do get warnings before banning. Both in temporary bans as in your ing chat screen. Also, bots fund GW. For every 1000 accounts they ban, another 1000 will be bought. And I don't see what everyone's problem with bots is anyway. I mean, they do no harm to you, do they? I mean, they didn't sell the materials and runes to the traders so much that they are worth scrap now.

I totally agree. I mean it's not like bot's actually ruin anyone else's fun! Ban the people who sell the gold, but the botting itself isn't actually doing anyone any damage. I mean if they're going to buy a game to not actually play, and let some machine do their playing for them it's really their loss anyway, isn't it?

majoho

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Denmark

03 Jun 2007 at 12:20 - 9

No don't ban the ones that sells the gold ban the ones that BUY it, they are the real problem (in GW and any MMO)

Darcy

Never Too Old

Join Date: Jul 2006

Rhode Island where there are no GW contests

Order of First

W/R

03 Jun 2007 at 12:32 - 10

1. Here is a link to Gaile's comments in a similar thread. http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10156503

2. All bots do not belong to gold-sellers. Some of them are players trying to make money or farm greens. But using any program (whether purchased or a home-grown macro) that allows you to walk away from the keyboard is considered (rightfully) botting.

3. Gaile has also mentioned that generally gold-sellers do not purchase accounts. They are the main source of account theft.

4. By now, most players are aware of the bot bans and what it takes to win an appeal. It's up to the player to prevent banning by making sure he/she also does other things besides farming. If you don't act like a bot, you won't be accused of being one.

5. Yes, gold-sellers do have a need to monitor. Or do you think they never get disconnects? A lost connection equals loss of income to them.

6. ANet is neither a government nor a parent. They don't have to try to save you from harming yourself through stupidity. Amazingly, they pay people to spend time resolving banning issues.

Clord

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Finland

Victory Via Valour

03 Jun 2007 at 13:06 - 11

How many here actually knows that bots come with GM detection nowadays and warp to other town when GM appear? It is not that easy to detect bots 100% surely and ban them because bot making community pay monthly to those guys who do bots so they can get new version what again counter whatever Anet try.

BuD

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

Nunya

E/Mo

03 Jun 2007 at 13:51 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njaiguni Blaze

And I don't see what everyone's problem with bots is anyway. I mean, they do no harm to you, do they?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

I totally agree. I mean it's not like bot's actually ruin anyone else's fun! ........ it's really their loss anyway, isn't it?

Ever heard of Loot Scaling? Ever witness drops get worse each time you enter an EA? Ever heard someone that was unjustly banned for bot behavior? Need I go on?

Bots do more harm than you think.

Njaiguni Blaze

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

The Netherlands

The Biggyverse [PLEB]

Me/

03 Jun 2007 at 13:56 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lycan X

Ever heard of Loot Scaling? Ever witness drops get worse each time you enter an EA? Ever heard someone that was unjustly banned for bot behavior? Need I go on?

Bots do more harm than you think.

Loot scaling is character-specific. Other people farming "your" area does not harm you. Repetitve farming the same area yourself is what affects loot scale. Also, bots don't bother with Normal Mode anymore. And yes, I have heard of people being banned due to "botly" behavior, in fact, my brother had that happen to him once. But after a few mails and a week he got his account banned. If your autisticly doing the same stuff over and over again, you can expect for something like that to happen. That's what I told him too. Anyways, bots don't harm anyone. They only fund Anet by buying new accounts.

BuD

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

Nunya

E/Mo

03 Jun 2007 at 14:20 - 14

You misunderstood me.

Loot scaling was implemented to combat bots. Drops getting worse each time you enter the same area was implemented to combat bots. How are they funding Anet? Most of the bot accounts are stolen, if they get banned they just steal another account anywyas. You dont honestly think that the gold farmers are actually buying legit copies of the game do you? How would they profit if they had to buy X amount new copies of GW a day?

Solvi

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

Avatars of Faith

R/W

03 Jun 2007 at 14:23 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by D8tura

Let me start by telling you a good friend was a hard core farmer and was banned for being a bot.

long story short he plays WOW and will not think of GW ever again...

way to go ANET

a good friend I met here (GW) is gone and i can not play with him again

People get banned in WOW just as bad if not worse than GW for bot like behavior....just go to a WOW forum and read all the sad stories.

Dawgboy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

Ohio

Antisocial Misfit

03 Jun 2007 at 14:30 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njaiguni Blaze

Repetitve farming the same area yourself is what affects loot scale.

Sorry, but loot scaling means you now get the same amount of normal drops if you either solo or go out with a full team. First run out still means you get 1/8 of what you did before if you solo.

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

03 Jun 2007 at 14:34 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

No don't ban the ones that sells the gold ban the ones that BUY it, they are the real problem (in GW and any MMO)

I would say ban both, just flag accounts that spread a hell load of money to others and ban both receiving and spreader. If there would be an auction system then things would even be more easy to check. Banning receivers would at least let people hesitate to buy illegal gold

Njaiguni Blaze

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

The Netherlands

The Biggyverse [PLEB]

Me/

03 Jun 2007 at 15:14 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgboy

Sorry, but loot scaling means you now get the same amount of normal drops if you either solo or go out with a full team. First run out still means you get 1/8 of what you did before if you solo.

My bad, I meant the Anti Farming Code. Both the code and loot scaling don't apply to hard mode anyway. And that is where the bots are now.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

03 Jun 2007 at 16:00 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njaiguni Blaze

My bad, I meant the Anti Farming Code. Both the code and loot scaling don't apply to hard mode anyway.

You're still wrong...

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

03 Jun 2007 at 16:03 - 20

I think loot scaling also works in HM, soloing there still gave me depressing amount of drops

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

03 Jun 2007 at 16:17 - 21

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by D8tura

hey guys I was brain storming and i think I have a good idea.....

PLEASE READE THIS ANET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me start by telling you a good friend was a hard core farmer and was banned for being a bot.

long story short he plays WOW and will not think of GW ever again...

what do you guys think????

i think you are leaving most of the story (yes story) out including if your friend (always a friend) contacted support to get it unbanned if he was actually innocent.

isnt it interesting that the actual people banned unjustly and leave never speak up for themselves but it is always a *friend*

Roshi_ikkyu

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Mo/W

03 Jun 2007 at 16:29 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

3. Gaile has also mentioned that generally gold-sellers do not purchase accounts. They are the main source of account theft.

Yes and thats the truth!... Please its just there way of ensuring people don't attempt to cheat the system.

Think about the comments of Anet banning 1000 bot accounts next time you read about them selling 2000 new copies of the game.

The OP's idea isn't as good as he thinks it is, Gold farmers employ people to watch there systems, easy to type in a code.

And if that fails I hope most people are aware that it is still cheaper, in some locations, to have a person work 12hrs playing the game to amass gold to sell for a profit.

Bots just speed the process up and assist the flow of the game.

Jack A Roe

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2007

Low Rent Posse

R/

03 Jun 2007 at 16:56 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njaiguni Blaze

iirc, you do get warnings before banning. Both in temporary bans as in your ing chat screen.

Absolutely not true, at least not in my case. My (mistaken) ban was on my 2nd account, which I had not even logged on to for a few days. While I solo farm fairly regularly, it's on my main account-not the one that was banned. The account which was accused of "bot-like activities" had most recently been capping elites on double XP weekend for a survivor title, and in fact I don't even have a character capable of solo farming on this account. Logged on to a perma-ban, knew it was a mistake, and within a day had my account back. This is why I wonder why the OP's friend did not go through the proper channels to proclaim his or her innocence, as I've read posts of several mistaken bans which were overturned as admitted mistakes. I'm all for agressive bot banning, and if that means the occasional hiccup in the system that bans legit players, then so be it-as long as the appeal system works as well for others as it did for me.

Njaiguni Blaze

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

The Netherlands

The Biggyverse [PLEB]

Me/

03 Jun 2007 at 18:06 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

You're still wrong...

Sorry, I've checked on it and they do apply to HM. Anyways, what I was really saying is that bots have no effect on you, not on drop rate, not on economy. They don't use the traders and anti-farming and loot scaling is player specific.

MoreaChanduen

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2007

The Cursed Blades [TcB]

R/Me

03 Jun 2007 at 18:51 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

Anyone notice that 99% of the time, it's 'friends' of banned players that complain - why is that?

For real I think they should not bother with bots at all, and ban gold byers instead then the bots will disappear.

How do you propose that would work? If the botters can operate without being banned, they can trade their gold to whomever they wish. And if anet just banned anyone who was given 100k gold for nothing in a trade, they'd just start trading crappy items back to the seller to throw them off the trail. It's not justly possible to ban gold buyers (not that the current system is really that much more just).

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

03 Jun 2007 at 19:09 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

You are talking about catpcha.

Besides reall people supervising bots, there is trick to get around any catpcha:

Make website with whatever desirable (porn/torrents/warez ...) then use catpcha - but not yours generated, isntead display catpcha you want to solve, and accept any input. if there are no queued catpchas to be solved, do not require it.

That way any visitor will solve catpcha for you (within minutes...), and you can feed result to wherver original catpcha came from.

Neat trick, eh?

Thats a nice trick indeed

But its reliant on people solving the catpcha to begin with.

----------------------

I have this idea i want you guys to give me some input on.

Idea: Two modes of loot drops, player selectable.

Concept: Basically....a player has 2 choices when they go out to kill monsters.

Normal Loot Drop Rate & Enhanced Loot Drop Rate

Normal Loot Drop Rate: Exactly what we have now. Loot scaling, low chance for rares. Generally hard to get stuff you want.

Enchanced Loot Drop Rate: Increased drop rate of all items, with a BIG BIG CATCH. These items cannot be merched, nor can they traded to other players. But these items can be used by your characters. Rare weapon skins do no increase in drops, but weapon mods on crappy skins are higher chance of being perfect.

So what does this mean?

If you need insignias/runes/materials/weapons for you character and not for reselling, Enhanced Loot Drop Rate would be VERY beneficial.

If you need money and rare items to sell, Normal Loot Drop rate would be what you need to choose.

Just an idea....im aware of the enormous affect on the economy this would do....

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

03 Jun 2007 at 19:51 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreaChanduen

How do you propose that would work? If the botters can operate without being banned, they can trade their gold to whomever they wish. And if anet just banned anyone who was given 100k gold for nothing in a trade, they'd just start trading crappy items back to the seller to throw them off the trail. It's not justly possible to ban gold buyers (not that the current system is really that much more just).

With an auction sytem that would be possible, because nobody would trade in another way, or it should be "dicouraged". Big mony changing hands in another way would therfore automatically be suspect unless guys are in same guild for longer time for example.

Inde

Site Contributor

Join Date: Dec 2004

04 Jun 2007 at 01:10 - 28

We've had enough of these threads, please use one of the existing ones rather then starting another. Closed.