I have been wondering this for a long time, and I really want an authoritative answer:
An example: Skybringer
* Energy +10
* Lightning damage: 11-22 (Requires 9 Air Magic)
* Halves skill recharge of spells (Chance: 20%)
* Halves casting time of Air Magic spells (Chance: 20%)
* Halves casting time of Air Magic spells (Chance: 20%)
* Health +30
There are two HCT20% mods. I have seen this on numerous items. Are these stacking probabilities? If not, why is the same mod applied twice?
What's the definitive answer, if any? Has this been empirically tested?
What's the deal with redundant mods?
Atreyu The Ranger
Etta
The HCT20% mods do stack, but you won't get 40%, instead you'll get 36%.
lyra_song
Not redundant.
Excessive ^_^
Excessive ^_^
Narcism
Because you can get achieve 2x20% recharge and 2x20% cast time on wand/focus sets, anet thought they should add that functionality to staves...
Atreyu The Ranger
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Etta
The HCT20% mods do stack, but you won't get 40%, instead you'll get 36%.
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Thanks everyone for clarifying.
Utaku
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Etta
The HCT20% mods do stack, but you won't get 40%, instead you'll get 36%.
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Consider each 20% half cast mod as a test. With redundant mod, the test is done twice.
A spell won't be cast faster if it fails both tests.
The probability of failing both tests is 0.8x0.8=64% (0.8 chance of failing the first one, and among those 0.8, another 0.8 chance of failing the second test).
So you get 36% chance of getting at least one half casting mod to trigger.
Using the same logic, you can get both mods to trigger, with a 0.2x0.2 probability, which means 4% of Air spells you cast will be cast 4 times faster.
Skuld
Dual 20% fast cast air is a beast, seeing as air builds are kinda spammy, run it and see the difference 
Got a couple of free skybringers, if anyone wants, PM Skuld Tyyra
Got a couple of free skybringers, if anyone wants, PM Skuld Tyyra
HawkofStorms
Agreed with Skuld, it is nice with air.
Also, its listed that way because its equivalent to a 20% inscription along with a 20% adapt staff head. The mods are listed twice because that's how a gold version of the staff would list them.
Also, its listed that way because its equivalent to a 20% inscription along with a 20% adapt staff head. The mods are listed twice because that's how a gold version of the staff would list them.
Evilsod
I tend to give something similar to my MM heros. Razah it helps bypass the lack of Bloodstained and MoW/Olias it just helps, specially with the obsessive Death Nova spam.
prism2525
fast cast mesmer + skybringer...
your guess.
your guess.
Chthon
Erm... just to straighten some folks out:
The odds are NOT 36% for 1/2 cast time and 64% for normal cast time.
They ARE 4% for 1/4 cast time, 32% for 1/2 cast time, and 64% for normal cast time.
Both mods check independently. The second is checked regardless of whether first one succeeds or fails.
Half recharge works slightly differently. Although the checks are done in the same manner, a hard cap of 50% reduced recharge time is then imposed, so that 4% chance of 1/4 recharge is bumped up to 1/2 recharge time, and you effectively get 36% and 64%.
To recap:
2x Halves Cast Time 20% gets you: 4% 1/4, 32% 1/2, 64% normal
2x Halves Recharge Time 20% gets you: (effectively) 36% 1/2, 64% normal
The odds are NOT 36% for 1/2 cast time and 64% for normal cast time.
They ARE 4% for 1/4 cast time, 32% for 1/2 cast time, and 64% for normal cast time.
Both mods check independently. The second is checked regardless of whether first one succeeds or fails.
Half recharge works slightly differently. Although the checks are done in the same manner, a hard cap of 50% reduced recharge time is then imposed, so that 4% chance of 1/4 recharge is bumped up to 1/2 recharge time, and you effectively get 36% and 64%.
To recap:
2x Halves Cast Time 20% gets you: 4% 1/4, 32% 1/2, 64% normal
2x Halves Recharge Time 20% gets you: (effectively) 36% 1/2, 64% normal
Enko
thought they changed it so you can't get 1/4 cast times anymore.
SerenitySilverstar
I definitely wouldn't say redundant - ever since I got a Nightbringer, I've noticed a huge difference in my ability to raise minions, combined with Bloodstained.
I run the 20/20/20 on all my Ele staves now. Being a nuker is so much fun when you can zap off Meteor Showers in double quick time every now and then
I run the 20/20/20 on all my Ele staves now. Being a nuker is so much fun when you can zap off Meteor Showers in double quick time every now and then
Mesmer in Need
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Enko
thought they changed it so you can't get 1/4 cast times anymore.
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Sir Skullcrasher
They should stock furious mod like this, that would give us mending wammos 20% furious instead of 10%!
SerenitySilverstar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sir Skullcrasher
They should stock furious mod like this, that would give us mending wammos 20% furious instead of 10%!
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Therefore, 20% Furious would be WAY overpowered - and this is coming from a player who luuuurves her Warrior toon!
Blackhearted
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Enko
thought they changed it so you can't get 1/4 cast times anymore.
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Evilsod
Yeah as far as i know they only changed it so you can't get 1/4 recharge, but 1/4 cast is still possible.
But then again i haven't played my ele much recently, or i'd probably have noticed a 1.25s cast Meteor Shower.
But then again i haven't played my ele much recently, or i'd probably have noticed a 1.25s cast Meteor Shower.
The Great Al
I have a 20/20 HCT and HSR on my fire wand, and my offhand. Every once in a while I can get off a meteor shower almost instantly...it's definitely still possible that they are both put into effect.
Kool Pajamas
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Great Al
I have a 20/20 HCT and HSR on my fire wand, and my offhand. Every once in a while I can get off a meteor shower almost instantly...it's definitely still possible that they are both put into effect.
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J snukka
now the question is how much would such a staff cost?
undeadgun
pretty cheap imo
Burning Blade
Quote:
| thought they changed it so you can't get 1/4 cast times anymore |
Cacheelma
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Burning Blade
1/4 Cast time still works. I've still seen my Meteor Showr casted in a bit more than 1 sec.
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Utaku
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cacheelma
By you or by others? He might've used Glyph of Sacrifice.
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I had the same experience many times with this kind of staff.
Longasc
20/20 Wand and 20/20 Focus are way to go.
Staves usually cannot compare for Elementalists, except Earth builds with many enchantments which might make 20% longer enchantments on a staff worthwhile.
For maximum effect and for a rather cheap price, you can get 20/20 Foci from Collectors all over Tyria and Cantha. Elona has the not so sexy 15^50 mod caster weapon/foci collectors.
In Vasburg Armory and Leviathan Pits you can craft 20/20 wands for 5k+materials.
Edit: Elona has a nice wand for Fire Elementalists though. Hajkor's Flame can easily be wurm-farmed outside the Remains of Sahlaja and is a 20/20 Fire Wand.
Staves usually cannot compare for Elementalists, except Earth builds with many enchantments which might make 20% longer enchantments on a staff worthwhile.
For maximum effect and for a rather cheap price, you can get 20/20 Foci from Collectors all over Tyria and Cantha. Elona has the not so sexy 15^50 mod caster weapon/foci collectors.
In Vasburg Armory and Leviathan Pits you can craft 20/20 wands for 5k+materials.
Edit: Elona has a nice wand for Fire Elementalists though. Hajkor's Flame can easily be wurm-farmed outside the Remains of Sahlaja and is a 20/20 Fire Wand.
Enko
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Evilsod
Yeah as far as i know they only changed it so you can't get 1/4 recharge, but 1/4 cast is still possible.
But then again i haven't played my ele much recently, or i'd probably have noticed a 1.25s cast Meteor Shower. |
-Loki-
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cacheelma
By you or by others? He might've used Glyph of Sacrifice.
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Skuld
Quote:
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Originally Posted by -Loki-
Meteor Shower cast in a bit more than 1 second. Glyph of Sacrifice makes it cast instantly. Instantly is a bit quicker than over 1 second.
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Glyph of Essence is instant, but Sacrifice has some penalty, wiki says 1/4 second (i'd say 1/16..). Stretch your casting bar fully and then cast something under Glyph, it will have an activation time. Also, you stop running to cast so it isn't instant.
Shmanka
Quote:
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Originally Posted by prism2525
fast cast mesmer + skybringer...
your guess. |
Cebe
Although I'm a little confused by this debate on whether 1/4 cast time can be achieved, I kinda always thought it did and all the testimonies here point to it being true...but anyways, just to add, I have 2 × HCT on my Earth Staff and I still get 3/4 second cast Dragon Stomps. They're sweet - like a really leet Cry of Frustration.
Omniclasm
Omniclasm is using Animate Bone Minions!
Series
20/20 HCT death magic+bloodstained boots=lol minions
linh
Double fast cast owns.
Just switch to my double fast cast enchanting staff for Aegis and it rocks.
Just switch to my double fast cast enchanting staff for Aegis and it rocks.
Collintag
OK this thread is a bit old but I just got into playing a caster. You can get 20/20 staves crafted in Kaineng Center for 5k and minimal materials, then add a wrap and 20 HCT staff head. Good stuff!