FPS and RAM

mazey vorstagg

mazey vorstagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Nodnol

Meeting of Lost Minds

E/Mo

I've been asking around and I'm concerned about the FPS I;m getting in GW.

Normally I run around 10-18 FPS but I've been as low as 6. Even with all my graphics at min I can't get up past 25 at idle.

So, my system specs

I've got a 2ghz single core processor with a Radeon X1300 graphics card (256mb)
I've also got 2gb of ram (supposedly).


My RAM issue is odd, in my computer I've got 2 512mb sticks. And I have 2000mb of virtual ram (set in Control Panel). That should be 3gb right? I've downloaded a RAM monitoring tool called FreeRAM XP and it monitors my ram usage. Most of the time I only have 550mb free. Surely I can't be using 2.5gb or ram when my processor is idle? Therefore I've drawn the conclusion that either my RAM sticks arn't working, or my virtual memory isn't working or FreeRAM simply doesn't register the virtual memory. Any ideas on this? Can I check exactly how much RAM my computer has access too, including Virtual memory.

I don't even know if RAM will affect the frame rate.

Oddly enough I have 40-50 FPS when I play WoW but other 'newish' 3D games such as AoE and KOTORII have FPSs around 20 again.

Summery:
So, what FPS do you get normally?
What are your graphics set to?
Have you set your graphics through GW or your graphics card directly?
Can I find out how much RAM I have in total?
Will RAM even help FPS?

Thankyou very much



Your local Earth Ele

Mazey

toon-a-loon

toon-a-loon

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Belton, Missouri

W/R

I usally get like 60 fps, but sometimes it changes down in the 40s and 30s for no reason :/

Code=007

Code=007

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2007

Tomorrow Never [dies]

A/

never use freeram software, they just mess with your system by unloading "iddle" process that ensure your OS stability.
virtual ram is that "virtual", windows writes necessary info on the hard drive and retrieves when necessary, maybe your hard drive is slow and not writting quickly.

Zappa

Zappa

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2006

Portugal.

You got 1GB of RAM. Virtual memory is only used when you run out of RAM, so no, you're not using 2GBs of RAM, lol.

I'd say, with that graphics card, those frame rates are normal. Buy a new card.
RAM wont affect you frame rate, unless you only had 512MB or 256MB, which would obviously need many data swaps from the RAM and a heavier usage of the virtual memory. Your problem is really the graphics.

And you can check your RAM with Ctrl+Alt+Del in the 'Performance' tab. No need to 'freaky' 3rd party apps. ^^

I have an almost 5 year old 9800xt, and I still get no less than 30 FPS even under heavy battle. I'm running in 1280*960 resolution, AA*4, AF*4 and everything 'high'. In GW of course.

Buy a new card & processor. ^^

zwei2stein

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

Your problem is right there:

you have only *1* gb of ram. Virtuall ram is there only to help with freeing reall memory from stuff that is not used at a time (idle tasks, preloaded dll libraries...), getting big about it helps nothing as windows will only fill it with garbage, hell, it even hurts your performance.

So, lowering your virtuall memory to 512 mb is first step towards better performance. If it ever becomes too low, windows will handle it.

(if your ram sticks werent working, your computer wont get past bios check, if they were working but damaged, it would be pretty obvious as you would be crashing all the time.)

(btw, do you have correct drivers? unless you are confused and wrote cpu/graphics specs wrong, you definitelly should be getting better fps)

Miral

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

I think your video card may have more to do with it than your RAM. the x1300 is a very low spec card for last generation. It only has 6 total shader processors (four for pixel, two for vertex), which can result in bottlenecks in games like this. try turning shader quality down, post-process off, and shadows and reflections off.

XvArchonvX

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

I have had a similar issue to you. I downloaded all the latest drivers for my graphics card and it has helped my fps a bit, but I still have to play on a really low setting to get a 25ish fps. I have heard some people say that Vista may be the cause of this and such would make sense since I recently got a new computer that was an overall upgrade, but ran on Vista instead of XP like my other comp. Some people run on vista just fine, but I still hear of others saying that they run into low fps when they install Vista, so this may have something to do with your problems, but I'm far from a computer techie of any sorts.

MMSDome

MMSDome

Raged Out

Join Date: Sep 2005

Summery:
So, what FPS do you get normally? 80-100
What are your graphics set to? All High
Have you set your graphics through GW or your graphics card directly? huh?
Can I find out how much RAM I have in total? 1.12 gigs
Will RAM even help FPS? No

I run a Radeon 9800 Pro 128 mb video card everything on high, get good FPS and the only lag I ever get is from internet or server related problems. The game isnt really that demanding.

Miral

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

oh to answer your questions
normal fps: constant 60 (vsync)
graphics settings: maximum, 16x quality AA, 16x AF, 1680x1050
in-game or driver: AA and AF set in driver, all other tweaks are in-game
total ram: 2gb physical, 1gb virtual

when calculating ram for requirements, only count your physical ram. virtual memory isn't to be counted on as a main source of ram.

once you're above reccomended specs, the amount of ram won't have an effect on your average FPS. however, it can help in keeping your fps more stable.

mazey vorstagg

mazey vorstagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Nodnol

Meeting of Lost Minds

E/Mo

Thing is, I only just bought the Radeon X1300, about 2 months ago. It cost me a fair bit of money and I'm restricted to getting anything better/bigger because my computer case is so small and the power isn't big enough to handle really powerful cards. I'm looking into building my own comp but I've not got the money I need to think seriously about it.

So I've only got 1gb of RAM. That's fine, I don't feel I need more. I can't understand there being a problem with my video card. I've downloaded all the latest drivers and everything. Looking at the internet I can see it was only released 1.5 years ago. I could run GW on my last graphics card and that was 3 years old.

I've been studying the recommended specs and I'm above all of them, my graphics card is above the recommended too. Surely the recommended specs would be for getting an FPS above 50, not 15 like me?

I've just checked my system specs and I was right:
1.94ghz processor
1gb of RAM
Radeon X1300 Pro 256mb

So, if it's not those, what else could be affecting my FPS?

Thankyou so much for all your help

Mazey

Tarzan The Chetta

Tarzan The Chetta

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

Wasuremono Kanji Banzoku [EVGA]

I can say from when I started Gw before frame rates were displayed...Ram will effect performance. I upgraded from 256 to 512 and the to 1024 in an aging system, it has a dramatic effect. More so than a video card upgrade though the card I had to begin with a 5500fx runs Gw fine. That system being 6 years old now manages on a low end cable connection to hit about 35-40 fps on a high resolution. I cant say why yours are so low seeing your specs compared to my old system, maybe you have something sucking up memory in the background. And as for getting 50+ fps, My current setup is an antlhon 64 3500+ 2048 ram and 6800gs vid card, it sees 60 fps steadily and is well above the stats recommended. So in my longwindedness id say check for any adware or other viruses, check processes running etc. Try to cut back anything you dont need and also check how much harddrive space your using. Basic stuff...i cant say it will all help but its what I do on my old system to keep it running tolerable on Gw.

QoH

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Divine Beings

R/

If your cpu is a celeron then consider buying a real P4. When my new video card became faulty, i played with my old geforce ti4200 and still got around 30 fps(around) with medium settings on a P4 3.2Ghz.(i hope i remember correctly). Your video card(gpu 450Mhz, ram 250Mhz) is better than the ti4200(gpu 250Mhz, ram 250Mhz).
Running too many processes on the background can affect performance also.

mazey vorstagg

mazey vorstagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Nodnol

Meeting of Lost Minds

E/Mo

Most of the time I've only got 47 or so processes in the background. I've had a look and the ones taking up the most memory are:
SVChost.exe which is a windows thing
Edict.exe which in an encarta thing
CCAPP.exe
and GW obviously
Otherwise the rest are niminal things like sound software and various windows processes. So it doesn't look odd to me.
In reply to Tarzen: I've only got 20gb of hard drive left but I've got an external drive as well, Its not like I'm pushed for space.

I'm just running a virus and adware scan now but I think it's unlikely they're causing any problems. I run an adware scan every week and my FPS has never been above 20.

I also downloaded new graphics card drivers but they've not made a difference.

I'm at a loss of what to do, it seems really odd. If I've got a better system than your old one QoH then it would make sense for mine to work fine.. It's a mystery

I'm very grateful for everyone's continued help

lordpwn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

R/

The amount of RAM doesn't have much of an effect on performance unless there simply isn't enough and the page file has to be used instead, 1 GB should be quite enough for Guild Wars unless you've got tons of stuff running in the background.

Your video card is very weak by current standards, and likely has something to do with the game running slowly on your computer. Try running the game at different resolutions, if the game runs a lot faster on lower resolution settings the video card is the bottleneck, or at least part of it.

Also, what kind of processor do you have? Its clock rate (you know, the GHz thing) alone is NOT an adequate measurement of its processing power, unless you're comparing two processors of identical design, and there's quite a few different models out there. A 1.94 GHz Celeron is a lot slower than a 1.94 GHz Athlon 64 or Core 2, for example.

Gimme Money Plzkthx

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

Anything over 1 gig of ram almost certainly won't see a performance boost unless you're running mad crazy processes. I don't know much about the x1300, but your processor certainly looks low end, especially if it's a celeron. You could always try overclocking your card a bit with ATItool, that's an easy way to eek out another few FPS, but be careful....

mazey vorstagg

mazey vorstagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Nodnol

Meeting of Lost Minds

E/Mo

My processor is an AMD Athlon XP 2600+ whatever that means.

I tried the game at lower res (800x600 to be specific, I normally run at 1250x 1024) and there was no noticable difference. I might try this ATI tool.

I'll be really angry if it is all my video card's fault. I only bought it two months ago and I was told is was a good card. If it is the video card however I can't change it (there's no room and not enough power) so I'll think hard about this new computer.

If I do get a new graphics card, can you recommend one? My budget is really £200 but I could wait for the Direct X10 cards to drop in price.

Thanks once again

Every time i lag

Every time i lag

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Belgium

Murder Death Sadists Of Doom [MDSD]

E/Me

got 15-20 fps with evrything at high =)

lordpwn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

R/

Whoever told you the video card was good probably wasn't talking about gaming. The Radeon X1300, like most very low-end cards, is hardly intended for 3d graphics, but for home theatre use and such.

Though if changing the in-game resolution had no effect on the FPS I'd say the processor is quite slow too.

I'm using an Athlon 64 3000+ @ 2.05 GHz and a Radeon X700 Pro, and get a pretty solid 40-50 FPS around the first two campaigns, and more than 30 FPS most of the time in Elona, my CPU's clearly the bottleneck most of the time.

tijo

tijo

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

Montreal

[CDDR]

R/

Ok, first thing at 1GB RAM or more, RAM doesn't impact on your fps. Secondly, the x1300 is like it's been said previously a low-end card so don't expect anything good out of it. An older generation card with 6 and above as 2nd number and 128MB RAM+ would give you better performance since they have more shader processors, better quality parts. That explains why a radeon 9800 will perform better than your video card.

As for asking for fps, you have to ask about what video card people are using so you can compare to yours.

As for getting better fps in WoW, just look at the difference between the graphics in both games and you have your answer right there.

Lastly, adding more RAM won't improve your fps.

eggrolls

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazey vorstagg
I've got a 2ghz single core processor with a Radeon X1300 graphics card (256mb)
I've also got 2gb of ram (supposedly).
I used to have a similar system but with a 7300GS, which is pretty much equivalent to yours in performance. After upgrading to a 7600GT, GW did run faster. FPS went up depending on area - about 5 FPS increase in PVP, 10-20 increase in PVE. My eyes can't really tell the difference though.

It's probably best to save up for a new computer entirely. Spending money upgrading an Athlon XP system is a poor investment IMO. Socket 462, DDR memory, and AGP are things of the past.

Tarzan The Chetta

Tarzan The Chetta

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

Wasuremono Kanji Banzoku [EVGA]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazey vorstagg
My processor is an AMD Athlon XP 2600+ whatever that means.

I tried the game at lower res (800x600 to be specific, I normally run at 1250x 1024) and there was no noticable difference. I might try this ATI tool.

I'll be really angry if it is all my video card's fault. I only bought it two months ago and I was told is was a good card. If it is the video card however I can't change it (there's no room and not enough power) so I'll think hard about this new computer.

If I do get a new graphics card, can you recommend one? My budget is really £200 but I could wait for the Direct X10 cards to drop in price.

Thanks once again
If you want a recommended card for your system, Id say for right now and mainly GW any Nvidia 6000 series card or a 7600+ card. The 6800Gs I have, which is unfortunately out of stock atm, was 100 dollars and runs Gw fabulously. My old comp runs a 6200 oced and is quite good. Depending on your budget and slot for expansion id say any of these cards should do you good. As for a DX 10 card youll have to upgrade to vista and for optimal performance, and would probably want slightly higher end components to keep it all running smoothe.

Batou of Nine

Batou of Nine

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

California, USA

Angel Sharks [AS] (RiP [KaiZ] T__T")

Mo/E

Here are some tips, some already covered, some not::
  • Defrag Hard Drive: This wont improve your overall in-game FPS, but it can help a bit if your PC is consistantly accessing the paging file (virtual memory).
  • Reduce background processes: It sounds like you do not have anything too heavy running or affecting your PC, so not so essential.
  • Turn off V-Sync: This will help your max FPS increase, essentially if V-sync is active it puts a cap on your FPS to reduced the amount of clipping/stuttering; if you can stand it, de-activiate this (in-game setting). This is one of the dramatic divides between budget cards and high performance cards.
  • Turn Shadows low: This can often give you back anywhere from 5-10fps. (in-game setting)
  • Turn Anti-Aliasing Low: Your video card is a budget card, therefore a lot of the bells and whistles that performance cards can handle are not an option for you; this isn't a noticable affect to most people anyway (in-game setting).
  • Turn Anisotropic Filtering Low: Same as above: This can be more noticable, but in the end if the user can handle far objects looking badly rendered, then by all means sacrifice this for a bit better FPS.
  • DO NOT MAKE YOUR PAGEFILE (Virtual Memory) INITIAL SIZE SMALLER THEN YOUR PHYSICAL MEMORY (RAM) SIZE!!!: Even when your system is idle, it often is utilizing around 50% of your physical ram, and in the end it is unavoidable that your PC will have to use virtual memory. If it is set so small, it has no room to go, and will make everything bog down to a crawl; everything. If you truely want to try to manually set your pagefile for effect/recommended setting, set the initial size at 1.5x the size of your physical memory, and the maximum at 3x. If you can affored the space, you can even set both the initial and max to 3x... So either "Initial(1024x1.5)=1536, Maximum(1024x3)=3072, or both @ 3072.
    [[The reason for this is because the pagefile will allocate hard drive space to act as the virtual memory, and it increases incrimentally. Starting the initial size usage at a higher level will mean your machine will not be bogged down with the constant allocation of incriments, rather it will start high and most likely not have to allocate any more. In the end, if you do not know or feel comfortable with all this it is really recommended to just leave this at default or the "System Managed" size. Just felt like explaining all that, although this shouldn't hardly affect your FPS.]] The only real thing that memory will affect is your in-game load times; anything at all from loading maps, loading window panes, loading stats, loading whatever will be faster with more RAM, which 1gig should be sufficient.
  • Test: Trial and Error with in-game graphic options can often lend you some results. After trying the few in-game options i told you about, you should see some change. Although you have already tried changing resolutions to see FPS changes, you need to keep things consistant. Go into an uncrowded area (explorable or city), and after each change wait at least 30 seconds as you watch the FPS meter. I find it very hard to believe taht resolution changes did not change a thing. Very low resolution (i.e. 640:480) should obviously see a significant FPS difference from a high resultion (i.e. 1280x1024). You can always try turning off additional graphics options that i havent mentioned; it could help, ya never really know... GL!


It is nearly impossible for anyone to really give you any clear cut answer on why your system is not performing so well, but like most i can speculate. From your hardware specs, i would say one of your biggest bottlenecks is your CPU. I run a P4 3.2gig, Radion x700 256mb, 2gig ram, and i still only get about a 30fps average dropping to 15fps in densely populated areas. But the funny part is i know exactly why, i run my resolution at my monitors native resolution (1400x1050), simply because the very slight blur that off native resolution gives triggers my OCD . Otherwise, at ANY resolution below that, it runs like a dream at 40fps++. And, yes, my card is a budget card too.

Your vid card should honestly be able to run the game at a comfortable 20-30fps, despite what others say budget cards can run GW quite well like mine. I would say that it isnt the vid card holding the fps down, rather a collection of issues form CPU, to memory allocation, to wahtever else.

As others have said, start saving for a new system. It isnt worth it trying to upgrade around your current system.

So i hope those points help. I realize a lot of it is common knowledge, but it helps to re-iterate details sometimes to help people think about what else they can do. GL and i hope you can get at least a few more FPS (until your new system at least ).

cheers

mazey vorstagg

mazey vorstagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Nodnol

Meeting of Lost Minds

E/Mo

thankyou for all your pointers everyone.

I'll be trying them

mazey vorstagg

mazey vorstagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Nodnol

Meeting of Lost Minds

E/Mo

Just incase it helps anyone or anyone is interested, lol. Here's some tests I did

Average FPS when:
Still (only me and henchies on screen) 28
Moving (no foes around) 16
Small Fight (4 foes) 13
Big Fight (10 foes) 7.5

I tried playing through a whole zone just now at 800x600 rather than the normal 1250 and the FPS difference was basically nothing. The rates came in at the same. I also fiddled with the graphics and I found that running medium mostly doesn't make it any slower than running low graphics.

I have noticed, however, that my CPU performance hits a constant 100% from the second I press the go button. I'm guessing it's been my CPU that's causing this.

Now, who would like to tell me all about the dangers and good points of overclocking?

Thanks

Mazey

tijo

tijo

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

Montreal

[CDDR]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazey vorstagg
I have noticed, however, that my CPU performance hits a constant 100% from the second I press the go button. I'm guessing it's been my CPU that's causing this.
Mazey
On a single core CPU and most dual core CPUs, games like GW will always use 100% of the CPU. It's just normal, the game is using every resource it can in order to give better performance. Your CPU isn't the bottleneck here.

I'm playing the game on a 1.6GHz pentium M and it runs very smoothly, if you want a comparison.

mazey vorstagg

mazey vorstagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Nodnol

Meeting of Lost Minds

E/Mo

Ok, this is really odd. It seems like we've ruled everything out lol.
It can't be the graphics card becuase people with more budget ones can run the game smoother.
It can't be the CPU becuase people with lower speeds can run it smoother.
It can't be the RAM becuase it's never use to the full when playing GW
It can't be the resolution becuase changing it doesn't make a difference.

This is unfathomably odd. Seems as though we've met a dead end.

eggrolls

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

Try adding -dx8 and -noshaders to your shortcut. If performance doesn't increase, add -nosound as well.

Do you have a spare hard drive or partition? If you do, format it and Windows. Then, on your fresh copy of Windows, install a lightweight firewall (or use Windows firewall) and the newest Catalyst drivers. Download GW and use the -nosound option in your shortcut. If the performance is still bad, then it's most likely your hardware. If it actually runs quite a bit faster, then install your sound card drivers, motherboard drivers, and everything else... one by one... and test your performance after each one.

lordpwn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazey vorstagg
It can't be the CPU becuase people with lower speeds can run it smoother.
Note that a 1.6 GHz Pentium M is probably at least as fast as a 1.98 GHz Athlon XP. There's a reason the Core 2 processors' design is based on the Pentium M architecture

I'd say we've at least ruled out your video card if dropping the resolution to its lowest setting had no effect on performance - the video card is the only part working harder at higher resolutions.

Did you try turning sound off yet? In a bigger fight there will be lots of sound effects which could cause a bad slowdown if there's some problem with the sound drivers.

Soulsmasher

Soulsmasher

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2007

127.0.0.1

R/

ATI will never admit it but the x1300 was never meant for gaming it was meant mainly for office work, and ATI tech support is less than subpar. I'm assuming you have a PCI slot if I remember correctly the 6200 does fairly well on Guild Wars and even a 9250 would work on Guild wars if your tight on money, just don't get a video card from BFG they are notorious for factory overclocking, XFX or PNY will do, for an ATI card Diamond is fairly good.

tijo

tijo

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

Montreal

[CDDR]

R/

The best advice i can give you if you want better fps, is to get a new computer. Preferably one you've built yourself if you can do that. Other than that, lordpwn may be right about the sound if it handled by your CPU diverting CPU resources from GW to sound processing. You can try adding -nosound to your shortcut path so it looks like "C:\Program Files\GUILD WARS\Gw.exe" -nosound instead of just "C:\Program Files\GUILD WARS\Gw.exe". Note that if you specified a different installation directory than the default one, the shortcut path will look different.

mazey vorstagg

mazey vorstagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Nodnol

Meeting of Lost Minds

E/Mo

I think we've cracked it. Using Direct X 8 to render greatly improved performence.

Now I've got average:
Still: 33
Moving: 29
Fight: 15

It's good, although not perfect I'm happy with it.

Thankyou everyone so much

p.s. the audio was resticting a little bit too, so I've downloaded new drivers and reduced the quality.