Heroes Ruined Guild Wars? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Anger Problems

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

W/

10 Jun 2007 at 08:59 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Nope. Heroes saved Guild Wars.

Horrible players ruined Guild Wars and then Heroes came along and saved it. Guild Wars is simply too complex for the average person to play properly; sad but true.

If ya don't wanna constantly be partying with horrible players with skillbars like those below - which are taken from real players fairly far into the GW games- (and Guild/friends are not handy) and thus failing horribly for no good reason due to said horrible players...

...gotta go with Heroes.

Try this one for size. As far as I remember, this one was a runner.

Lonesamurai

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Cheltenham, Glos, UK

Wolf Pack Samurai [WPS]

R/A

10 Jun 2007 at 09:02 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon221

QFT! Well, except the hard part. I made a monk because: 1) Everyone grouped with monks, so no waiting, 2) I've got fast reflexes, and 3) I like helping others out.

I specifically made my monk to help my guildies on missions where monks were difficult to acquire, and for helping pugs out. When Nightfall came out, I rapidly went from MVP to Just Another Person With A 4 Over Their Head. Heroes never thank me for keeping everyone up without effort, or exclaim in astonishment over a particularly close heal, or sigh with relief when those hexes and conditions fall from their eyes.

Plus, since people have a readily available alternative to pugging, when I try to get everyone to coordinate their bars, I generally get a couple of droppers as they are simply unwilling to take five or ten minutes to synch their shit with the rest of the team. No one wants to make the effort.

So now, when I'm not infusing my way towards my wolfie, I wander over to various proph missions and help people along, simply because I enjoy grouping with others and listening to them.

It isn't because I'm in a shit guild (I'm not) or because I'm a horny pedophile (again not true) looking for his next snack (I do love snacks - PBJ FTW!). It is because I'm genuinely a people person, and I like meeting new people. What the hell is the point of charging through a game at breakneck pace all alone? "Oh sweet, I upgraded my avatar's clothing to the latest fashion! And I got this new minipetdogthing that I call Tinkerbell! Big sunglasses ftw!"

That's hot. Maybe some of you "Guild Wars was d0med by the community" people should go look in the mirror.

you really should be commended for your attitude, but although you are right on your own personal points, like th OP you are pushing your own values of the 3million other players out there, of which a goodly portion are the complete opposite of you and not just unhelpful, but mean, spiteful and if they don't get thier way they either just ragequit or go out of thier way to ruin the experience for the rest of the team

DFrost

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Ultima Thule

Legacy of Echovald [Echo]

P/

10 Jun 2007 at 09:14 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadly Eyezz

If people group more i'd have a reason to join a guild.
Can anyone here give me 1 reason to join a guild in PvE? there isn't!

Actually, you will most likely find yourself grouping more with real people when you join a guild. Most players don't hate playing with other people, they just don't like PUGs. As someone once put it: guildies, alliance members & IRL friends > heroes > henchies > solo > PUG. Playing with someone you know and you can trust is a lot more fun than taking a chance with a group of strangers.

I have to admit I have done very few missions with PUGs since the introduction of NF. I remember only three occasions from the past two or so months. 2/3 were disastrous, the last one went really well. It's a hit or miss, which you can avoid if you find a good guild and a good alliance, and fill the vacant slots with heroes when grouping.

Lonesamurai

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Cheltenham, Glos, UK

Wolf Pack Samurai [WPS]

R/A

10 Jun 2007 at 09:43 - 44

Joining a good guild gives you a couple of things:

firstly, people to chat with, especially if they use Vent or TS, and use of either adds to the enjoyment of the game at least a hundred fold

secondly, most guilds usually have a dedicated forum for making groups, talking about random stuff and building more of a social circle

not only have i turned my guild into a business, I also have a good solid group of friends now that i can guarantee will be on and that i can guarantee i can find someone to do something with, even if its not Guild wars based... hell, my guild plays EvE Online, Steam Games, Battlefield, etc just to name a few other diversions... So yeah,joining a good guild isn't just helpful for guild wars, but also for your gaming sociability aswell

Not to mention the fact that I now have freinds from all round the globe and if I went on a round world trip now, i doubt I'd have to stay in hotels in most countries as I have guildies from all over

Konrow

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

NY, New York

Warlords of Earth [WAR]

10 Jun 2007 at 13:35 - 45

Ok as has been said many times before, Heroes were a godsend. Most people were already palying with henchies due to the severe drop in community (I used to actually like PUGs :O) so the Heroes jsut gave us all a chance to have better henchies. Guild are really the only place people interact with others these days. You can still make groups with guildies, you can just chat and not have "WTS/WTB" or some stupid comments popping up in between, or you can do PvP which requires teamwork and usually only people that know eachother can achieve good teamwork/communication.

6am3 Fana71c

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

10 Jun 2007 at 13:50 - 46

>> to most ppl here who tell that only ppl complaining bout heros are noobs who cant handle shit alone.

Well, I am not a noob. As a matter a fact, i think i am a good player. Many others had a same opinion. And I DO complain about heroes and hench, sure for some of you they might be god sent but that isnt the case for everyone. Did you ever really tried to create a PUG? You can invite anyone you like, check their builds, and kick em if you dont like em. So, when you have your full group of non-noobs you can go out there and have some fun, maybe even discover some nice person. "But noooo, that is too long, i will just grab my heroes and hench and solo everything..." Well let me tell you something, you can't say for yourself that you are good player till you complete many missions with real players, coz thats when your talent comes to surface, your leadership, your ability to correct other ppl's mistakes. Playing with NPC's is liek farming to me, always the same shit, you can't expect any diffrence. They might be "perfect" companions, but they are always the same, so you can't improve yourself.... and you wont always get perfect circumstances, neither ingame or in life. So better get used to it right away.

Lonesamurai

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Cheltenham, Glos, UK

Wolf Pack Samurai [WPS]

R/A

10 Jun 2007 at 14:02 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6am3 Fana71c

>> to most ppl here who tell that only ppl complaining bout heros are noobs who cant handle shit alone.

Well, I am not a noob. As a matter a fact, i think i am a good player. Many others had a same opinion. And I DO complain about heroes and hench, sure for some of you they might be god sent but that isnt the case for everyone. Did you ever really tried to create a PUG? You can invite anyone you like, check their builds, and kick em if you dont like em. So, when you have your full group of non-noobs you can go out there and have some fun, maybe even discover some nice person. "But noooo, that is too long, i will just grab my heroes and hench and solo everything..." Well let me tell you something, you can't say for yourself that you are good player till you complete many missions with real players, coz thats when your talent comes to surface, your leadership, your ability to correct other ppl's mistakes. Playing with NPC's is liek farming to me, always the same shit, you can't expect any diffrence. They might be "perfect" companions, but they are always the same, so you can't improve yourself.... and you wont always get perfect circumstances, neither ingame or in life. So better get used to it right away.

So why not go the next step and join/create a guild then? Ths is "Guild Wars" after all

gobla

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

Dark Humans

Mo/W

10 Jun 2007 at 14:08 - 48

Heroes killed my monk.

Heroes saved my warrior.

Monk's imho no longer fun with heroes. Mainly because heroes don't work well independantly. They need someone to lead them. I'm sure tons of people enjoy multi managing a million tasks but I don't. As a monk my job is to keep the team healed and preserve my energy so I can keep healing my team. That's what I do, that's what I enjoy. I manage the defense and leave the offense to itself.

But with heroes another task is laid upon that. I now also have to direct my heroes. I have to call enemies ( monk caller FTW? ) and manage the entire offense as well because my heroes are too stupid to do so. Yea sure, I can do it. I can complete every mission this way. Easily. But it's no fun. It's a task.

I enjoyed the simple play of my Monk, Just focussing on keeping the team alive and doing it well. Expecting heavy damage and pre-protting. Feeling good as the bars skyrocketed up again with a single spell. And smiling as big bosses broke their weapons and spells on my defensive enchantments and healing spells. That's what I love about the monk. You manage an entirely diffirent aspect of the battle. An aspect in wich you are king and ruler.

Now with heroes? No more. I can no longer center purely on keeping my team alive and doing what I enjoy. My monk, wich whom I saw almost everything there was to see in PvE, is now collecting dust.

My warrior on the other hand is far more fun with Heroes. She's made for them. She's caller, puller and meatshield. More of the leader character for PvE.

But all in all. I'd be much more happy without heroes.

WinterSnowblind

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

10 Jun 2007 at 14:17 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadly Eyezz

Thanks everyone for reply.
And thanks to who ever insulted me because he's insecure.
MMO ments to be with people, there's bad players in every game, not only guildwars and the game survives,I play a monk, and i know how many bad monks are around there, but that doesn't mean all of them are bad.
being a monk with heroes is awfull,boring and hard, because you are not actually attacking a group, you have to select mobs everytime and ctrl+space, then select the other.
I find it more enjoyable when you play with people, good people that understand me and make me feel that i am really playing a MMO game.
If people group more i'd have a reason to join a guild.
Can anyone here give me 1 reason to join a guild in PvE? there isn't!

Like I said in my first post, I enjoy playing the game with others, but only people I actually know, or at least people I've met online, who I'm friends with, and aren't going to act like immature jerks while playing.

Guild Wars is great because it doesn't force that social aspect on you. If you enjoy teaming up, you can do that, but a lot of us prefer to play the game by ourselves, or in small groups. Using the argument "play a single player game" doesn't really hold up, as there are no single player games out there that are anything like GW, and certainly none that offer any kind of large scale co-op. I can't play Final Fantasy with a friend, can I?

Smile Like Umean It

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

E/Rt

10 Jun 2007 at 14:35 - 50

Heroes didn't ruin anything. They're there to make things easier (as well as being a selling point for NF). Anyone who didn't like to group before them sure as hell isn't going to suddenly change their mind and start pugging because of them. Likewise for anyone who loves grouping with people. No one is stopping you from doing it. No one is making you change your preference or views.
Some times I only have a limited time to play. Would you rather I grab some group, that took god only knows how long to form, and then end up having to leave in the middle of whatever we're doing?
And some times I simply want to explore or play around. You can't seriously think I'm going to sit in a town on the off chance that someone else is doing the exact same thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadly Eyezz

I find it more enjoyable when you play with people, good people that understand me and make me feel that i am really playing a MMO game.
If people group more i'd have a reason to join a guild.

Wait a minute. You're a "people's person", who likes to group with real people, interact with them and give and recieve help, yet you don't want to join a guild which is that by definition? I think one of us is confused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadly Eyezz

Can anyone here give me 1 reason to join a guild in PvE? there isn't!

I think you pretty much answered that yourself in your first post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swift Thief

Your average PUG:

By the way, find out where these pics were taken.

I'll guess.... UW. I remember seeing a W/E with the exact same build and we asked him to change it. He was adament that his build was the greatest thing ever and it made things even better because he was a war so he could just stay at the front and tank while he nuked. I kicked him, he spammed me in whisper to reinvite him, I went to DnD, he spammed local for reinvite, we found a warrior who actually knew his role and left on our way.

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

10 Jun 2007 at 14:42 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobla

Heroes killed my monk.

....

But all in all. I'd be much more happy without heroes.

Nah they didnt kill your monk, you can still join up with people who PUG, or friends.

U can choose to play without heroes, and then you will feel much happier as u stated yourself, don't force others to do the same however, they got the choice , and are allowed to make it themselves. That my friend is freedom. I started to henchway after THK. I noticed that henching is in many cases more easy then PUGGING. I left GW for a while and then returned when heroes came in. It became even better. Still with familiar players who are willing to contribute to a teambuild it is usually quite ok. WIth PUGS there is usually about 0 communication, and comments on builds that show either antagonistic skills or are antagonistic to others in the team are not appreciated. How can you play cooperatively if u do not want to cooperate. I'm willing to change stuff if needed, no problem. But it may as well come from others too. Cooperativity means that all make contributions and sacrifices.

Jumping Is Uselss

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

-... . .... .. -. -.. / -.-- --- ..-

10 Jun 2007 at 14:48 - 52

I for one love heroes, but they have their limits that only a real human player can overcome. Heroes are good enough to tackle all of normal mode missions. In hard mode the AI of some of heroes and henchies are not up to par with the enemy AI so it is important to have real players. I like to join groups of real people, but sometimes on simple missions people do not follow directions and fail the mission which usually ends up to blaming and flaming session. If your with heroes you have nobody to blame, but yourself (and the stupidity of hero AI

).

Mr_Cynical

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2006

Scotland

Region of Chosen Kings [R.O.C.K]

E/Mo

10 Jun 2007 at 15:05 - 53

I've been playing Guild Wars since release day (well, strictly speaking the day after, damn my slow postal service :P) and heros haven't killed Guild Wars, they've saved it. Now missions that require one very specific character type (interrupter in Rilohn Refuge for example) don't require someone to be in a large, active guild to complete them.

You wish the game didn't have henchmen either? Try creating a new Factions character and playing Ran Musu Gardens (normal mode!). Then you'll see why having henchmen is a good idea. Guild Wars is different from World of Warcraft.

I'm not meaning that in a 'go to hell' sort of way, I mean it genuinely. World of Warcraft is a large, open world in which the player basic does whatever he/she wants. Guild Wars is more structured, with missions and a storyline - sort of like a bridge between traditional RPGs like Diablo, and traditional MMOs like WoW. In WoW you can always find people to do things because there is no storyline progression - there are raids and so on that are worthwhile doing more than once. Now, with the exception of going for Master's titles (which puts you out of reach of most people looking for parties anyway), who can honestly say they have decided to repeat a mission in Guild Wars (on the same character), just for fun? That is why the game needs henchmen - otherwise people wouldn't be able to play.

gobla

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

Dark Humans

Mo/W

10 Jun 2007 at 15:07 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

Nah they didnt kill your monk, you can still join up with people who PUG, or friends.

U can choose to play without heroes, and then you will feel much happier as u stated yourself, don't force others to do the same however, they got the choice , and are allowed to make it themselves. That my friend is freedom. I started to henchway after THK. I noticed that henching is in many cases more easy then PUGGING. I left GW for a while and then returned when heroes came in. It became even better. Still with familiar players who are willing to contribute to a teambuild it is usually quite ok. WIth PUGS there is usually about 0 communication, and comments on builds that show either antagonistic skills or are antagonistic to others in the team are not appreciated. How can you play cooperatively if u do not want to cooperate. I'm willing to change stuff if needed, no problem. But it may as well come from others too. Cooperativity means that all make contributions and sacrifices.

Where will I find groups? 90% of all people are henching.

Sure for missions it's doable. But there's far more to this game then missions.

Back in Prophecies and Factions there were actually groups who went on quests and elite skill caps. Now? Not even on Tyria or Cantha there are groups for those.

It's a rush through the missions to get your fancy 15k armor and then do elite missions to get fancy weapons type of mentality. For human groups the rest of the content is skipped.

Theus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

W/Mo

10 Jun 2007 at 15:12 - 55

Heroes killed Multiplayer PvE.

It was Nightfall in general that killed Guild Wars though.

WinterSnowblind

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

10 Jun 2007 at 15:26 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

Heroes killed Multiplayer PvE.

It was Nightfall in general that killed Guild Wars though.

Good way to argue all the points against this. Just ignore them.

Lonesamurai

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Cheltenham, Glos, UK

Wolf Pack Samurai [WPS]

R/A

10 Jun 2007 at 16:08 - 57

I'm just surprised that people who say that guild Wars is dead are still here, if the games dead, why post on one of the games forums? go find something else and leave those of us still enjoying it to enjoy it in piece

EPO Bot

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Mo/N

10 Jun 2007 at 16:12 - 58

Would the invention of jetbikes ruin the biker lifestyle? You can bet some people would say yes, but the majority would prefer the hoover goodness anyway.

Andisa Kalorn

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

[PMS]

10 Jun 2007 at 17:02 - 59

Even before nightfall I was henching my way through most missions. Or often, I did them with guildies or guildies + hench. Now it's pretty much the same but with heroes added in.

Sure I tried pugging at first, but the sheer boredom and futility of trying getting into a pug with my mes and sin did nothing to encourage me. And the frustration of having to attempt a mission many times due to people sucking or quitting. Also there were all those idiots whose only objective was to irritate the others by any means possible, which could ruin even a relatively good pug.

And I really don't understand why people find it so difficult to just follow simple instructions!

If you want fun human interaction, use guildies. Not pugs.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

10 Jun 2007 at 17:08 - 60

PUGs killed PUGs. Not a whole lot left to say about it.

kidkid

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

Vancouver

I Seek HK

Mo/

10 Jun 2007 at 17:21 - 61

I agreed, Heros killed Guildwars. I kind of quited the game at PVE because of that, everyone just pve with their heros, and now I kinda quit PVP too cuz there is nothing to do while waiting for ppl to get online for PVP. Heros should never have exist. GG to Arenanet. Very bad move.

ElinoraNeSangre

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Near Seattle, WA

Talionis De Cineris [EXUR]

N/Me

10 Jun 2007 at 17:23 - 62

I personally love that I have options. Maybe I only have 10 minutes to bang out a quest. Maybe I know I might have to drop everything at any time, which would screw over a team if I'm playing with one. Or, I might want to have some fun with a random team and really kick ass on a mission. I'm going for survivor on my dervish; I'll shamelessly log out if I think I'm going to die. I don't want that screwing other people over.

If PUGs are dead-ish, it's because bad playing made them such. It's bad players, jerky people, elitists who think their way is the only way, or people that can't take constructive criticism about their playing/builds that killed PUGs. All heroes did was draw more attention to the fact. If everyone would chill the heck out (take some valium people!), not be build nazis, and just *have fun*, there'd be a lot more PUGing.

Navaros

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Mo/Me

10 Jun 2007 at 18:35 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6am3 Fana71c

>> to most ppl here who tell that only ppl complaining bout heros are noobs who cant handle shit alone.

Well, I am not a noob. As a matter a fact, i think i am a good player. Many others had a same opinion. And I DO complain about heroes and hench, sure for some of you they might be god sent but that isnt the case for everyone. Did you ever really tried to create a PUG? You can invite anyone you like, check their builds, and kick em if you dont like em. So, when you have your full group of non-noobs you can go out there and have some fun, maybe even discover some nice person. "But noooo, that is too long, i will just grab my heroes and hench and solo everything..." Well let me tell you something, you can't say for yourself that you are good player till you complete many missions with real players, coz thats when your talent comes to surface, your leadership, your ability to correct other ppl's mistakes. Playing with NPC's is liek farming to me, always the same shit, you can't expect any diffrence. They might be "perfect" companions, but they are always the same, so you can't improve yourself.... and you wont always get perfect circumstances, neither ingame or in life. So better get used to it right away.

That's a strange logic, one must take incompetent players on his team and then point out their incompetencies to them to be a good player eh. No, that doesn't make someone a good player, it just makes him good at donating his time to babysitting & reference library duties and letting bad players leech off of him.

People already did that for many, many months before Heroes were available anyhow. That's how they know they don't like it and why they don't do it anymore since they no longer have to thanks to Heroes.

Also, correcting mistakes of Heroes' AI via flagging and skillbar micro requires skill o'plenty to make them run at top efficiency. Not to mention that heavy use of Heroes encourages one to learn about, make good skillbars for every class, something PUGing never requires. That definitely leads to improving one's self.

To top it all off, chances are those wise enough to use Heroes/Henchies are already at the top of their game and not in need of improvement. It is those who require the "services" of the Heroes/Henchies-using players to PUG with them that need improvement. But they shouldn't expect an inherent right to be able to leech those lessons off of good players who do not have fun donating their time like that.

Perkunas

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2006

In my own little world, looking at yours

Only Us[NotU]

E/

10 Jun 2007 at 20:18 - 64

I can't say Heros killed GW. Let me ask a few questions, if I may. How many people were playing Prophesies before Factions was released? What percentage of Factions sales were new people, not having owned Prophesies? Same for the Nightfall release, what percentage was first time buyers of any of the chapters? If the first time buyers were a very low percentage, then the other previous users are now scattered accross how many outposts and missions, AD & ID? 3 million people in 1 chapter makes for many opportunities to PuG. 3 million in 2 or 3 chapters makes it more difficult to PuG. The Heros help to fill in when not enough people are available.

In the past, my monk was a sought after part of any team. Now when I bring her on and join a group, they want me to ping my skills. They then set about telling me to change this and to change that. My build is what I have used and have been very successful with throughout my journey to Protector, cartographer, wisdom seeker, etc.. It doesn't matter that I have taken several groups through THK without a loss of life, and many as the only monk, they want this skill changed or that skill changed. Maybe I will change the skill and ping the wanted build and change back, or just log off and get another character. Dunkoro is better with those 1 or 2 different skills than I am. If you think so. My monk has been idle since about two weeks after the release of Nightfall.

When I form a PuG, people are pinging me their skills. I may or may not look at them. What they are using does not really matter to me. If I look and see something really 'off the wall', like a warrior using predominately ele skills, I may ask why such a build. If their explaination sounds reasonable, I leave them alone. Sometimes I may offer a slightly different build, warrior skills complemented with ele skills. Whether or not they change is their choice. They won't be kicked.

Heros did not kill GW. GW is still alive and kicking. People who felt FORCED to PuG, are now not PuGing, and were probably henching anyway. 3 chapters, several districts over many outposts and missions, just makes it look like GW is dead.

Onarik Amrak

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2007

Astral Revenants

P/W

10 Jun 2007 at 20:35 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

PUGs killed PUGs. Not a whole lot left to say about it.

Q F T !

Creeping Carl

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2007

10 Jun 2007 at 20:52 - 66

People who complain about Heroes and say that Heroes are for the socially inept are the same people that I avoid in the game. Funny thing is that they're usually the ones who are guilty of what they're accusing people of being: socially inept. Rudeness, childishness and just plain bad players. Everything that I hate about PUGs.

Heroes saved the game for me. I wouldnt have bought Nightfall if I had to endure everything with PUGs again. There are plenty of things that "screwed up" GW but Heroes are nowhere on that list.

Mad King Corn

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2006

10 Jun 2007 at 21:06 - 67

Heroes did not ruin GW, rude and obnoxious people did. Heroes are the best thing that ever happened in Guild Wars, I love my heroes and they are spoiled rotten. I could not immagine Guild Wars anymore without heroes. Heroes fill the gap when its impossible to get a good group.

Solange

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kings Army of Surmia [KAOS]

10 Jun 2007 at 21:16 - 68

i think additional classes, new skills along with heroes for me anyway ruined the experience

I liked how it was kept simple back in the days and not overly bloated feeling...I think this is why you see so many people still play in Pre-Searing is that this area of the game CAN'T CHANGE, its kept exactly the way it is for the most part from the very first day the game came out, no new classes or skills in pre-searing...

I think the expansions should have been ALL content based, new areas to explore, new cool shiny weapons, and new PVP/PVE gametypes but they shouldn't have screwed over balance with new skills, new player classes....i loved the original 6 player classes, the game fit perfect back then and bahhhhh

HardWonFame

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2007

Purdue University, West Lafayette IN

Seven Samurai [SvnS]

N/Me

10 Jun 2007 at 21:32 - 69

I don't like what heroes have done as far as PuGs go, but they are a very nice, unique, and helpful feature that has helped to make Guild Wars the best MMO alternative out there.

I personally would rather pick up a PuG for a mission, even if the PuG takes a few tries to get through it then work with heroes, helping new or clueless players is part of the game for me.

But as far as quests go, Heroes all the way. Quest completion has never been so much fun. And if you have to occasionally shore up a party for a mission, sure ill throw a hero in.

Play how you want to play.

Kool Pajamas

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Maryland

Mage Elites [MAGE]

10 Jun 2007 at 21:36 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

PUGs killed PUGs. Not a whole lot left to say about it.

I believe that's true. The quality of pugs never really improved since day 1.

I dont want to group with people that give Dunkoro Firestorm and neither do many other people. Trying to screen out these people combined with the poor lfg system in GW just makes people frustrated and bypass it all by going with hench/heroes.

Traveller

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Finland

League of Extraordinary Explorers [LOST] (my one man guild)

Me/

10 Jun 2007 at 22:12 - 71

Actually, at the very beginning, PUGs were fun, since no one had that much of an idea what to do and everyone was still learning. People were open-minded, enthusiastic to learn and generally a lot more fun to hang around with. At least for me, it led to some fun PUG experiences, which have been getting more scarce the longer the game has been going on.

But at some point me and a lot of others thought - "Hey, instead of baby-sitting these people, taking their abuse and putting up with their behaviour - why don't I just grab the henchmen instead?" and since henchmen are good, we didn't return.

Now, of course if you're in a good and active guild like I was fortunate to be for a long time, it's not a problem. But not all are so fortunate. With the addition of heroes in Nightfall, it's just so much more easier to take your trusty henchmen and heroes who you know will do the job without whining and bitching than to try and find a PUG who'll accomplish the same.

I'd actually compare heroes and henchies to a guild team - you know what your teammates are capable of, they're reliable and get the job done.

Twinsoul

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2007

Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha

Rogue Clan [Rg]

Mo/N

10 Jun 2007 at 22:16 - 72

My first character, a monk, PUGed through Prophecies, then henched most of Factions and all of Nightfall. Nowadays, the only reason I ever PUG is just for some cheap laughs and occasionally a recruit for my guild. Unlike some of the other monks who have posted here, I love my heroes. I'm not a very social person outside my network of friends and guildies, just because I don't like dealing with the kind of massive stupidity that is so prevalent in online gaming, and heroes let me enjoy the game with my friends, not to mention actually being able to play when I don't have enough for a full guild group. The only thing I miss about PUGs were those rare occasions when I met a player that I worked well with and became friends with, but most people who are likeminded enough to click with me also avoid PUGs like the plague. All and all, I think heroes are a pretty good deal for most players... the exception being those inexperienced enough to need a good group to carry them through the game.

Kool Pajamas

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Maryland

Mage Elites [MAGE]

10 Jun 2007 at 22:24 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveller

Actually, at the very beginning, PUGs were fun, since no one had that much of an idea what to do and everyone was still learning. People were open-minded, enthusiastic to learn and generally a lot more fun to hang around with. At least for me, it led to some fun PUG experiences, which have been getting more scarce the longer the game has been going on.

But at some point me and a lot of others thought - "Hey, instead of baby-sitting these people, taking their abuse and putting up with their behaviour - why don't I just grab the henchmen instead?" and since henchmen are good, we didn't return.

Now, of course if you're in a good and active guild like I was fortunate to be for a long time, it's not a problem. But not all are so fortunate. With the addition of heroes in Nightfall, it's just so much more easier to take your trusty henchmen and heroes who you know will do the job without whining and bitching than to try and find a PUG who'll accomplish the same.

I'd actually compare heroes and henchies to a guild team - you know what your teammates are capable of, they're reliable and get the job done.

Thats kinda what I was getting at. At the beginning we were all new to the game and at the same basic level. Over time some people got better and others didnt, along with new people coming into the game. So because of the people that didnt get better and the new people coming in, pugs never really got better. Maybe slightly but not enough.

angmar_nite

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

[SNOW] of [YUM]

E/

10 Jun 2007 at 23:16 - 74

I join pugs every now and then or when i have time. But when it's a frustrating, short, or difficult mission, I'll take my heroes.

I am looking forward to trailblazing the PVE world in GW2 though. Discovering the game mechanics along with everyone else.

rohara

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Rt/

10 Jun 2007 at 23:46 - 75

i gave up on PUGing long before NF was released, and heroes were a GODSEND. every now and then i'll try a PUG and become so frustrated i swear off PUGing again for a long time.

my last PUG...ring of fire mission. i was a monk. we had 2 warriors...both using running builds, complete with mending! one liked to show us how "i will survive!" works by standing in every pool of lava he could find. the other liked to pull all the baddies right to the monks. we also had a 55 mesmer! who, unfortunately, did not bring 55 skills to go along with it, and died every 5 seconds or so. she also liked to spam ping "I'm dead!". yeah, like we hadn't noticed! the other monk had 3 cap sigs on her bar, though there aren't that many skills to cap in the mission. one of the nukers didn't even have an elite, and thought using pbaoe fire skills on the titans would be a swell idea. he, too, died about every 5 seconds or so.

i've also been in a PUG where the monk went afk to get a haircut. lovely! there was also the PUG at tombs, where we let this very persistent warrior join the group, swearing he was pro and whatnot. i caught him using firestorm and flare.

so yeah. PUGs are dead, but not because of heroes...because of bad players. everybody is a noob once, and that's fine. but i'm not picking up the slack anymore. nobody taught me how to play - i figured it out on my own, and so can anyone else. this game is not massively complicated! if i want to do a mission, i want to do it right the first time, not have to give the eles a "nuking 101" course along the way after watching their epic failure.

PUGs can be good if the leader is a build nazi and likes to boss everyone around, but that takes time and i'd rather just grab my heroes and hench so i'll know what to expect. at least heroes use good builds and almost always do what they're told

Lonesamurai

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Cheltenham, Glos, UK

Wolf Pack Samurai [WPS]

R/A

11 Jun 2007 at 00:04 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohara

i gave up on PUGing long before NF was released, and heroes were a GODSEND. every now and then i'll try a PUG and become so frustrated i swear off PUGing again for a long time.

my last PUG...ring of fire mission. i was a monk. we had 2 warriors...both using running builds, complete with mending! one liked to show us how "i will survive!" works by standing in every pool of lava he could find. the other liked to pull all the baddies right to the monks. we also had a 55 mesmer! who, unfortunately, did not bring 55 skills to go along with it, and died every 5 seconds or so. she also liked to spam ping "I'm dead!". yeah, like we hadn't noticed! the other monk had 3 cap sigs on her bar, though there aren't that many skills to cap in the mission. one of the nukers didn't even have an elite, and thought using pbaoe fire skills on the titans would be a swell idea. he, too, died about every 5 seconds or so.

i've also been in a PUG where the monk went afk to get a haircut. lovely! there was also the PUG at tombs, where we let this very persistent warrior join the group, swearing he was pro and whatnot. i caught him using firestorm and flare.

so yeah. PUGs are dead, but not because of heroes...because of bad players. everybody is a noob once, and that's fine. but i'm not picking up the slack anymore. nobody taught me how to play - i figured it out on my own, and so can anyone else. this game is not massively complicated! if i want to do a mission, i want to do it right the first time, not have to give the eles a "nuking 101" course along the way after watching their epic failure.

PUGs can be good if the leader is a build nazi and likes to boss everyone around, but that takes time and i'd rather just grab my heroes and hench so i'll know what to expect. at least heroes use good builds and almost always do what they're told

Oh my god, i laughed so hard reading that i actually sprayed coffee out of my nose....

absolutely classic, thank you

Leighwyn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Seattle

Limbo

Mo/E

11 Jun 2007 at 00:45 - 77

Heroes weren't the issue for me when it came to losing interest in the game. Primarily, it was the additional character classes being introduced in such a short amount of time that kind of left a bad taste in my mouth. When I bought a new campaign, what I personally wanted to do was go through it with my already-existing characters. Once that was done, I wanted to accomplish all the details that go along with that (mapping, skill capping, getting protector, ...) but again with my existing characters. I STILL haven't had the urge to create a ritualist/assasin/paragon/dervish, and factions is already a year old. Now I have two more on top of that from nightfall, with hard mode distracting me further.

Along with that, I think it was a really poor decision to remove skills as a reward for doing quests. It makes it that much more difficult to grow oriented to the new professions when you aren't even provided interesting skills to use early on, but rather have to go through the process of buying them individually from an incomplete list in an outpost. If these existed as they do in prophecies, I would be much more motivated to create a character of the new classes.

Lastly, as many people have mentioned, the modifications to loot that completely severed the head of solo farming squashed the last bit of motivation I had to play. I used to have a blast taking my 55-monk up snakes dance and into dreads to open the random chests there, collecting a billion giant slayer hammers along the way. If they made these changes to combat botting, I still think the better solution would have been employing a simple captcha when you attempted to enter an explorable or mission zone.

So no, heroes didn't ruin anything for me. They made accomplishing PvE goals that much easier. Any idea how hard it is to form a hard mode group for a mission these days, when the few people still playing it are spread over three campaigns and spread over almost 60 missions? I'd much rather spend 10 minutes developing hero builds that could get me through than waiting for a very long time.

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

11 Jun 2007 at 05:02 - 78

heroes are great. they make it so decent players arent forced to PUG with shitty players who have no idea what they are doing. almost the only ones complaining are the shitty players(not the only ones, a few decent players like to PuG for no apparent reason)

Master Sword Keeper

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Dead Isle

Farmers Of Woe [FoW]

W/

11 Jun 2007 at 05:05 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadly Eyezz

Hello.
I am so disappointed now, I like the system of this game, the idea that you can't get better than me by playing for 10 hours+ a day or ebaying money."That's why i left WoW".But the game is just getting more boring everyday.

Mate I completely agree about the integrity of the Guild Wars Life-span of gameplay. As for your ban. I see it must of been an unfair one.

Listen up everyone. Heroes are a spoiler in the game. Though I love having them there to smash some monsters in the face for me, The loot scaling and less drop ratios are making the game so boring. Can't rack up any mass ammounts of cash and I'm not spending 2hrs playin UW and FoW for 1-2 globs of pink snot. I work too much to waste time. When most of the younger players start working a job, you guys will eventually agree with me.

I'm not able to sustain anymore than 2-3hrs of gameplay anymore. When I first started playing...It was 10hrs+ but now hardly scraping the 3hr mark.
and I know a lot of people are continuing to argue of modes of gameplay.

PVP Vs. PVE and so forth. Heroes are just another addition of henchie. That's it. Human players are rare to find..That's why Anet created the hero system. This system is a permanant fixture. Due to worldwide marketing and advertising. Sorry but heroes are here to stay. As for some other options...Brg back the good old days of ecto farming and gold snatching.

cheers.

Saphrium

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

Granite Citadel

Post Searing Ascalonian Merchants

N/Me

11 Jun 2007 at 05:06 - 80

If I can do everything with heroes, I would have played some offline fantasy games.
Heroes are not my favorite thing about nightfalls, but then again, I couldn't think of anything else in nightfall that attracts me.