Armor Cap and Forms?

So armor from insignia stack with skills, right? I'm wondering if armor from the Acolyte of Balthazar would stack with other skills, like Conviction, or is the form's +40 armor considered in the armor cap? I realize that a Form is a skill, but I was wondering if they'd work differently for some reason.

Thanks.

Single skills can take you above the cap, multiple skills can't. You'll still get the +40 from AoB, but you won't gain any more from other skills.

staggering, how blind anet can be..........they are telling us what we can and can't do with builds

.....................
what?

Agreed. This armor bonus limit is a colossal fail. AoB and Conviction is a combo I use frequently, and it seemed like a pretty sub-par, average skill combo any typical Dervish user would use. This update will kill that in its tracks and most of the players will have no idea (because they don't read the update notes all the time), and continue to play stuff like that.

It also means that Dervish on the team with the Paragon using Stand your Ground! and/or that Warrior using Watch Yourself! is getting no benefits as well. Those are two other skills most people would use. The Dervish almost entirely relies on armor boosts because of it's low normal armor and no shield, yet still on the frontlines.

GG, Anet, way to annihilate your two new classes in one fail swoop.

gotta go with thomas on this one, what?

hasnt anet been doing skill/game balances since like, day one? did someone just notice?

Well now I guess instead of bringing Conviction you can bring another skill as damage mitigation, something like Armour of Sanctity won't trigger the armour cap.

Adapt to the changes, it's not that hard

It's not a way to annihilate them by any means, as I've completed the entire game without relying heavily on boosted armor. What it does kill is armor stacking in areas where damage is so high and/or comes in so many packets and/or packs enchantment removal that Protective Spirit just doesn't help.

And those areas tend to be Hard Mode-esque areas.

So basically ArenaNet has basically forced people to shape-up or ship out. It's a good way to force players to learn tactics for PvP, but if PvE wasn't in its current format, people wouldn't really complain about this mostly non-issue.

The bigger problem? They're forcing this on us as players, rather than easing it through.

well, they're telling you that they don't want anyone to be nearly invincible... well, except for 55 monks, they seem to be above the rules T.T (and before the inevitable troll jumps me, yes I have a 55 monk who is unbelievably easy to play, and still want them nerfed)

Thats another big thing about it. A lot don't even visit the Guild Wars site to see the update notes or even know the site has such a section.
Funny how if something is popular then it means it is overpowered to ArenaNet... then again when it comes to balancing if skills were not nerfed into oblivion then there would be more options. Then again how is it 'balance' to kill something out of existance? Then again that topic of discussion does not belong in this thread.

The point is its going to make for a lot of redundant and useless skills. What's the point of bringing Stand your Ground or Watch Yourself if it's only going to really have an effect on one or two people because everyone else has their own armor bonuses? This devalues a lot of skills, period. This isn't so much a nerf in mechanics as it is removing a large number of skills from usefulness.

What's worse is, like I said, those who don't know of this update (which would be the majority of players who don't use forums - or, most people who play), will not know those extra skills they throw on their bar are just about useless because of their buddies skills, or in combinations like that. That further segregates the good players from the average players.

Anet does not usually force people to play a certain way, or run certain skills/builds. They usually encourage or discourage playstyles. This here, is straight up forcing.

you guys do realise this was done because of teams full of paragons running around invincible with armor somewhere in the 140's right?

I'm sure there will be enough biitching in major cities to keep most people in the know about it, hehe

In otherwords, the game may most likely change... oh look, its changing again... ohh...

No, I didn't. Although, despite how much time I've put into my Paragon, I'm seriously at the point where I'd just rather them be wiped from the game entirely, I don't care what I lose with her. Seriously, they obviously didn't think the paragon through when they were working on it before Nightfall.

The Question is: The Skill balances are tested for one week..but is the cap of the armor buff also one aspect for testing or a final decision?

Yes, i don't see how this requires a full blown nerfing of the entire armor system.

This really is only a problem because PvE is so damage based that ridiculous amounts of armor become a necessity. A standard DoA tank needs Dolyak Signet, Armor of Earth and Obsidian Flesh to hold aggro and even then he takes considerable damage. This armor cap will only work is ANet completely re-works the mechanics of PvE so we don't get stupid 300 damage elementalists.


Right now I'm just waiting for someone to say: "the general consensus from the GW community is that the changes have been good"

those who argue that the dervish is being nerfed does not understand the game or game balance ... the dervish puts out a TON of damage, and low armor is the only thing that is a way to counter that. Hope your monks know how to play the game and learn to frontline correctly if u need 5000 armor to survive



this nerf is 100% correct by anet and any decent play will recoginize that builds that are based around high armor are broken.

If you are arguing that armor nerf is destroying builds then maybe you should stop playing iway type builds and learn to play the game

And just when you think Water Eles will have some use with GWEN skill they do this. Bye bye +124 armor against phyisical with Armor of Frost, Armor of Mist & Frigid Armor

I would agree with that. As a matter of fact, the same goes for Ritualists, Assassins and Dervishes.
The problem with paragons is the same as the problem with SF eles: they become more effective the more you put in a team. A single paragon might be able to give a few select people some extra armor (or everyone if he chooses to sacrifice his second profession to /W and put a lot of points in tactics), and put out some decent damage, but if you put 5 in a team you basically have the offense of 5 warriors (Agressive Refrain needs a nerf, hard), everyone has Watch Yourself and Stand Your Ground on them (including the monks), the monks on top of that have Soldier's Stance activated like 60% of the time, making it impossible to kill them, hexes get owned by Dual Expel, Mending Refrain is actually enough for most of the damage (now that I think of it they actually have 150 armor, not 140), it's the most imbalanced build ever. (in a long time at least)

I have no clue how to fix this. The fact that paragons become more effective the more you throw in a team is a huge problem, because it inherently means (has to mean) a single paragon is very ineffective. Because of this, you will hardly ever see a single paragon in a balanced build for some midline support. This means the entire class is doomed to either be a benchwarmer or be a huge gimmick.
Searing Flames eles suffer from the same fate to a lesser extend. I think it's great for fire to have a decent offensive option that actually kills things (mind blast is most of all a crapload of energy with low damage), but when you throw them in packs things just tend to get rediculous. A single searing flames ele could be dealt with because they usually spam their elite on recharge, making it incredibly easy to divert it (ever played a searing flames ele with your elite diverted/humiliated? You're basically just standing around 'nuking' people with Glowing Gaze and Liquid Flame every 6/13 seconds lol), but you can't Divert 6 copies of the same skill if your opponent is not completely retarded.
I could explain why assassins, rits and dervishes are bad too if you wish, but I don't really feel like it atm.
Just to let you know, I don't like what's happening to the paragon either, but it's the only option with a class that's designed so badly from the start.

I'm sorry for whose DoA tank got screwed hard by this, but I think you'll survive. If DoA really becomes undoable with this nerf, I'm sure Anet will do something to fix it. (like less retarded damage)

GASP! So no-one ever, ever in their right mind, thought about...

ALLOWING ONLY ONE PARAGON PER TEAM?!

DAMN THAT WAS HARD TO FIX I ALMOST STRAINED MY BRAIN

... ffs

This is frustrating.

I suggest that partys be given a limit to the number of each profession a long time ago, it got dismissed. However i still feel it would solve alot of the so called cookie cutter team builds like IWAY or SF Eles and would make Anets job of balancing skills considerably easier. I would limit a max of 2 or 3 of any profession in a party. ( 2 being the better choice)

Yeah I completely agree. I hate it how the armor mechanic is going to be reworked just because of a single class played by a handful of teams. They're not all that common are they?

If they are, may I suggest moving Watch Yourself! to Strength?

Limiting any party to have a maximum of X of the same profession would help a lot, but frankly, it's too late. Guild Wars is dying already. People are moving to WoW (ironic, I know), while awaiting Fury and SC2.
2 per party would be too little. Any party needs 2 monks, Rits are just not a viable backline, and with that you're 100% killing monk runners and smiting monks. There are also a lot of builds with 3 warriors out there that are totally OK.
A maximum of 3 would be absolutely bearable though.

That kind of forcing playstyle I can live with, definitely. It stops a lot (if not all) the gimmick builds not just in PvP, but PvE, also - B/P anyone?

GW is often said to be a lot like CCGs like M:tG. Well, if I'm not mistaken, they do limit the amount of certain types of cards or specific cards you can have in any deck. A team in GW can be compared to a deck in competitive CCG, these kind of rules are not unheard of and can actually allow for much more freedom of thought and strategies. A rule like that might actually get me to play PvP, honestly.

I'm anti-armor-cap too, also on behalf of my dervish. Without stacking protective spells, dervishes are really delicate. Through most of nightfall, before I could get to the end game areas where skills like mystic regen and conviction are available, I really struggled in the frontline. A dervish has no choice but to walk right into the fray, and stay there - to be functional, they need all the magical protection they can give themselves.

ROFLMAO!

Yes, god forbid the people who created the game along with all the skills design the game mechanics too!!

I'm amazed that some of you have evaded my ignore list for so long.

lol owned..

Yet another example of why the armor cap is lame.

Oh look... another thread to whine about Anet's handling of it's own game. To all those who are saying "This is the last straw, I'm going to stop playing," do it! A game without people who constantly complain about every decision the devs make is one I would be even happier with. To those who say "Worst nerf ever, now I won't be able to do ---," get over it. Your ridiculous cookie cutter builds aren't the only way to play the game. Try coming up with something actually innovative before you come to the forums to whine.

[skill]conviction[/skill]

Now rendered completely useless with the god knows how many enchantments that buff armor.

I dont really play dervish, but I do (or did) play SoR and Conviction on my monk.

Age of Conan now please. TY.

You do realise how much this armor cap has hurt PVE? No of course you dont, and you phail at understanding it just like Anet do.

GG for PVP ruining the remaining 90% of the game that is PVE.

Erm, like LOL and sure.

1) Henchmen skill updates as suggested by gaile herself to offset the fact that we cant use 7 heroes? Where are they?
2) Play testing and balancing to ensure HM is soloable with hero/hench? like WTF? Did they even do that? They said they did.
3) Loot scaling nerf?
4) Armor stacking to 25 max? (WTF WTF for PVE)

What next?

Paragons are not broken in PVP, I have just been observing Meow Pwn opponents with SYG/WYS two paragon teams, and I saw them completely anhillate a 5 searing flame elementalists/3 monk group. So if they can do it time and time again why cant you? Oh btw, they only have two monks as well. Get better at your own game and learn how to play it.