Anyone else disappointed?
Antitorgo
From what Gaile said a while back, I was expecting a great skill that would make a Mesmer wanted in a PUG... The new Mesmer PvE skills are woefully lacking in comparison to what Eles, Monks and Paragons got.
frojack
Well I love how over-powered Clumsiness is now. Also Illusion Magic on it's own is not all that hot. I imagine people can now cross-spec little more effectively. You have a caster who can deep wound, don't complain ^_^.
Seriously, I can understand that you feel you got short-changed, but the problem was never the mesmer in the first place. They can't make sweeping changes to a class that is already so well balanced without breaking shit.
The mesmer should be wanted for the skills the class already has in most pve areas that aren't ridiculously power skewed (only DoA really). Some silly pve skills shouldn't change things too much. (Still the necro Kurzick/Luxon skill is a little much considering all the mesmer got was friggin' aoe degen. Really needs more use than that...)
The real problem is 'snow plow/bull dozer' world anyways...
Seriously, I can understand that you feel you got short-changed, but the problem was never the mesmer in the first place. They can't make sweeping changes to a class that is already so well balanced without breaking shit.
The mesmer should be wanted for the skills the class already has in most pve areas that aren't ridiculously power skewed (only DoA really). Some silly pve skills shouldn't change things too much. (Still the necro Kurzick/Luxon skill is a little much considering all the mesmer got was friggin' aoe degen. Really needs more use than that...)
The real problem is 'snow plow/bull dozer' world anyways...
Shuuda
The only way to make mesmers "wanted" in PvE PuGs is to give them some kind of radical make over, which would result in mesmers no longer being mesmers (just flashing purple light eles) Which would make us Mesmer players much more upset. Mesmers are good in PvE, just not wanted, there is a difference.
XvArchonvX
Cry of Pain isn't the only option for a PvE skill that a mesmer can use. Ether Nightmare is an AoE -7 degen skill. Also, secondary skills work well on Mesmers. Necrosis along with Mantra of Recovery becomes very highly spammable due to the lessening of recharge and cast time. Intensity is also a good option since a 15-23% damage increase on armor ignoring spells on mesmers is very nice. Signet of Corruption is a great way for a mesmer to control energy management since mesmers can easily spread hexes. Ether Nightmare has great synergy with this skill and the new signet fast cast is a nice addition as well. Elemental Lord can be a good option for any Fast Cast Nukers out there. Finally, Shadow Sanctuary is a great self heal for a mesmer since being blinded is inconsequential to a mesmer.
Personally, I think a lot of doors have opened up for PvE mesmers. ^_^
Personally, I think a lot of doors have opened up for PvE mesmers. ^_^
Evilsod
Ether Nightmare is not an AoE -7 degen. Ether Nightmare is, at best, an AoE 4 degen because the number of people that have ranks in Allegiance is extremely small. You know what the funny part is.... ITS STILL OUTCLASSED BY SEARING FLAMES!
ca_aok
Searing flames is an elite?
Shuuda
yes, so it will naturally be better than any non elite AoE.
Phe Belladona
so the new cry is just a less helpful (if more damaging - but who cares) version of cry of frustration.. yay. clearly everyone is gonna be running around */P as thats basically pve easy mode, and hell take a bonder monk with warrior secondary for its +100 ar bonus for all. the mesmer skills wont be jumping onto my skill bar anytime soon. i like the boosts to the illusion line VERY nice. MoR Clumsiness should be enjoyable.
Antitorgo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phe Belladona
so the new cry is just a less helpful (if more damaging - but who cares) version of cry of frustration..
No, it isn't. Cry of Frustration interrupts AoE, this new one only interrupts the target (but does more AoE damage).
Worthless.
Worthless.
Shadis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phe Belladona
so the new cry is just a less helpful (if more damaging - but who cares) version of cry of frustration.
When I first saw it, I thought "Wow, Pre-Nerf Spiritual Pain is back."
When I first saw it, I thought "Wow, Pre-Nerf Spiritual Pain is back."
FoxBat
It *is* back. You don't need to interrupt the target to deal damage, just as long as they have a mesmer hex.
fripple
I thought it did area interrupt. If it doesn't, it's not worth bringing at all. We already have an interrupt that damages other enemies without interrupting them. It's called mistrust, it has the same energy (less if you count the fact that you don't need a set-up hex every time you want to use it) and recharge, and only does slightly less damage. Sure, you can use this 'great' new spell on skills too, but so what? Mistrust doesn't require you to focus on one target so you can catch their spell, either.
ArKaiN
Quote:
Originally Posted by fripple
I thought it did area interrupt. If it doesn't, it's not worth bringing at all. We already have an interrupt that damages other enemies without interrupting them. It's called mistrust, it has the same energy (less if you count the fact that you don't need a set-up hex every time you want to use it) and recharge, and only does slightly less damage. Sure, you can use this 'great' new spell on skills too, but so what? Mistrust doesn't require you to focus on one target so you can catch their spell, either.
Agreed, it sucks. Btw: is your name from The Alphabet of Manliness?
Phe Belladona
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antitorgo
No, it isn't. Cry of Frustration interrupts AoE, this new one only interrupts the target (but does more AoE damage).
Worthless. im sorry it must be a scratch on your computer screen or maybe just scim reading and you missed the important words "LESS HELPFUL" ie. doesnt interupt in aoe -.-
Worthless. im sorry it must be a scratch on your computer screen or maybe just scim reading and you missed the important words "LESS HELPFUL" ie. doesnt interupt in aoe -.-
Dutch Masterr
Part of being a Mesmer is getting used to disapointments 
Shanaeri Rynale
We just cleared City in DoA as an all mesmer team. Using cryspike most doa mobs evaporated in under 3s if balled up correctly. A single cast of a properly set up cry would yield 175 damage in the area. Using a variety of cryspike builds the 6 damage dealing mesmers could dish out in excess of 1500 spike damage Aoe, with enough in reserve to mop up any stragglers.
Cry is not underpowered. People just need the right builds and learn how to use it. For example, here the tank would 'paint' the target with spirit shackles and the others would use that as the cover hex.
It does need >2 or 3 mesmers in the team, but it IS very usable in the high level areas
Link to the post here http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10168786
Cry is not underpowered. People just need the right builds and learn how to use it. For example, here the tank would 'paint' the target with spirit shackles and the others would use that as the cover hex.
It does need >2 or 3 mesmers in the team, but it IS very usable in the high level areas
Link to the post here http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10168786
Guardian of the Light
Anyone find out how much Deg Ether Nightmare gives with Sig of Illisions + 16 illision
Shanaeri Rynale
Seems to boost it to -7 degen. Alas Barrels wont tell me how many. yay dont have to be super loyal to kurzicks to use it now - lol
Trouveur
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuuda
yes, so it will naturally be better than any non elite AoE.
Most PvE only skills are far better than the elite skills.
Except the mesmer ones which are not as good of course...
An AoE -7 degen which last 10 seconds, have a casting time of 3 and a recharge time of 25 sucks as a max title skill.
At -10 degen, 2 seconds cast time and 10 recharge time it would be ok.
But currently compared to what paragons, elementalists, assassins and necros gained it's a joke.
Except the mesmer ones which are not as good of course...
An AoE -7 degen which last 10 seconds, have a casting time of 3 and a recharge time of 25 sucks as a max title skill.
At -10 degen, 2 seconds cast time and 10 recharge time it would be ok.
But currently compared to what paragons, elementalists, assassins and necros gained it's a joke.
pingu666
rit one is abit pants, ranger one dubious
Perfected Shadow
Imo the recharge times and energy costs of the mesmer skills should be lowered...
Evilsod
Yeah way to completely overlook the point that Ether Nightmare is a steaming pile of wank because Searing Flames does the same thing, it just has the added bonus of causing widespread destruction on top of the degen. Ether Nightmare does nothing, not sure i will ever both to use it.
Shan all that proves is that Cry of Pain is subject to lots of abuse via recharge/duplicate skills and has turned the Mesmer into an armour ignoring Nuker. Is that actually what people wanted for there Mesmers?
Rangers got 2 of the dodgiest PvE skills there are. Mesmers got the very worst and 1 of the most overpowered. The simple fact is your builds are now revolving around this 1 skill, if its not this its Necrosis spamming.
Shan all that proves is that Cry of Pain is subject to lots of abuse via recharge/duplicate skills and has turned the Mesmer into an armour ignoring Nuker. Is that actually what people wanted for there Mesmers?
Rangers got 2 of the dodgiest PvE skills there are. Mesmers got the very worst and 1 of the most overpowered. The simple fact is your builds are now revolving around this 1 skill, if its not this its Necrosis spamming.
LifeInfusion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale
Cry is not underpowered. People just need the right builds and learn how to use it. For example, here the tank would 'paint' the target with spirit shackles and the others would use that as the cover hex.
It does need >2 or 3 mesmers in the team, but it IS very usable in the high level areas
Link to the post here http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10168786 With all due respect, having to have at least 2 of anything is pretty ridiculous for PvE unless it is a Warrior (lol). It is basically the reason why Paragons haven't reached mainstream.
'
If you look at all other pve only skills they are pretty self sufficient.
Having to mantra of recovery/echo/arcane echo a skill means it basically is underpowered on its own and needs recharge buffs.
It does need >2 or 3 mesmers in the team, but it IS very usable in the high level areas
Link to the post here http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10168786 With all due respect, having to have at least 2 of anything is pretty ridiculous for PvE unless it is a Warrior (lol). It is basically the reason why Paragons haven't reached mainstream.
'
If you look at all other pve only skills they are pretty self sufficient.
Having to mantra of recovery/echo/arcane echo a skill means it basically is underpowered on its own and needs recharge buffs.
Div
The fact that paragons got their skill doesn't actually help them...since an ele can take it and use it just as effectively. Guess Anet's plan backfired?
Trouveur
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
Shan all that proves is that Cry of Pain is subject to lots of abuse via recharge/duplicate skills and has turned the Mesmer into an armour ignoring Nuker. Is that actually what people wanted for there Mesmers?
Not me.
I would have prefered a skill that enhance our current skills, like the ele sunspear skill do.
Something like an enchantment or a stance that would have allow our next non elite mesmer hex to affect all foes adjacent/nearby/in the area.
Would have been better and more mesmerish than the Spiritual Pain bis we got.
As for Ether nighmare it is a joke. Maybe if it works like Spectral Agony (making the foes lose 4...48 Health each second, instead of just old degen), so that it can stack with normal degen (and so it isn't render useless by SF), it would be interesting enough to be put on our bar.
I would have prefered a skill that enhance our current skills, like the ele sunspear skill do.
Something like an enchantment or a stance that would have allow our next non elite mesmer hex to affect all foes adjacent/nearby/in the area.
Would have been better and more mesmerish than the Spiritual Pain bis we got.
As for Ether nighmare it is a joke. Maybe if it works like Spectral Agony (making the foes lose 4...48 Health each second, instead of just old degen), so that it can stack with normal degen (and so it isn't render useless by SF), it would be interesting enough to be put on our bar.
Shanaeri Rynale
Cry of Pain does need a recharge buff. I dont want to be forced to take MoR all the time. I want options. CoP is conditional, which means in my mind it's more mesmerish than chaos storm, which for all it's faults is unconditional AoE. I too would have liked some kind of Chaotic Attunement that acts in the same was as say the ele attunes, but there is time for that in Gwen maybe.
Actually not all my builds use CoP now in the same way as Not all ele's are searing flames or rangers barrage pet.
CoP has it's uses but is not the panacea of mesmer PvE. It has limitations, and each area still needs thought as to the best counter. What it does do is give the mesmer more options, which in my mind is exactly what we needed.
Actually not all my builds use CoP now in the same way as Not all ele's are searing flames or rangers barrage pet.
CoP has it's uses but is not the panacea of mesmer PvE. It has limitations, and each area still needs thought as to the best counter. What it does do is give the mesmer more options, which in my mind is exactly what we needed.
sir lockt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuuda
Mesmers are good in PvE, just not wanted, there is a difference.
/QFT
...and that is a shame. A good mesmer can add so much. Although I never player mesmer myself, I certainly recognize its strenght in PvE when well-played.
...and that is a shame. A good mesmer can add so much. Although I never player mesmer myself, I certainly recognize its strenght in PvE when well-played.
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
Having to mantra of recovery/echo/arcane echo a skill means it basically is underpowered on its own and needs recharge buffs.
No... the fact its used with Mantra of Recovery/Echo/Arcane Echo is because it IS powerful and its used with them to make it even more so. Its a more powerful Lightbringers Gaze that is classed as a spell.
Much the same way people used Echo/Arch Spiritual Pain before it was nerfed since thats basically the same skill.
Seriously you mesmers don't even know when you've got it good...
Much the same way people used Echo/Arch Spiritual Pain before it was nerfed since thats basically the same skill.
Seriously you mesmers don't even know when you've got it good...
Antitorgo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale
Cry is not underpowered. People just need the right builds and learn how to use it. For example, here the tank would 'paint' the target with spirit shackles and the others would use that as the cover hex.
It does need >2 or 3 mesmers in the team, but it IS very usable in the high level areas
Link to the post here http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10168786 Okay, I overreacted a bit. It isn't useless, but my understanding was that Anet was working on making Mesmers more desired in PvE and Gaile said the new skill would do that. These new skills don't come close to making a Mesmer more wanted in PvE.
Sure, 2-3 Mesmers doing a CrySpike can do a bit of damage. But 2-3 SF eles would be doing 3000 dmg instead of the 1500 you guys saw.
I was hoping for a skill like "Transfer all mesmer hexes and their remaining durations are transfered to X adjacent foes". That would have made Mesmers more wanted in PvE. Basically Epidimic for hexes. You could get an almost equivalent to SS by casting Empathy and my dream Spell...
Oh well, another disappointment for PvE mesmers. They're still fun to play in PvP.
MSecorsky
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antitorgo
Sure, 2-3 Mesmers doing a CrySpike can do a bit of damage. But 2-3 SF eles would be doing 3000 dmg instead of the 1500 you guys saw.
I was hoping for a skill like "Transfer all mesmer hexes and their remaining durations are transfered to X adjacent foes". That would have made Mesmers more wanted in PvE. Basically Epidimic for hexes. You could get an almost equivalent to SS by casting Empathy and my dream Spell...
Oh well, another disappointment for PvE mesmers. They're still fun to play in PvP. I have to ask... against a mob of level 28s, how much of that 3000 damage actually gets through the armor compared to the 1500 from the mesmer?
I like the potential this brings for AoE splatter in FoW with Shatter Hex and hex Eater Vortex.
Dean Harper
Im really sick of Anet trying to make Mesmers feel included, and trying to buff them. Each time they do, they fail MISERABLY. We need some new people in there to give Mesmers more of a role in GW society. I mean, even in PvP, mesmers have fallen out of grace.... Is that really how you should treat your users Anet? IS IT?
I just had a thought, we should have a website where Anet posts suggested skills that people will suggest changes to. That way, we will never get dissapointing skills that Anet says will be great, but suck all the same. Of course, each post would have to be verified before it is allowed to be displayed, and the vetting process would take a long time; but isnt it worth it to take a long time but come out with a great product? This is just a random suggestion that popped into my head, but id like to see something like this some day.
-Dean
I just had a thought, we should have a website where Anet posts suggested skills that people will suggest changes to. That way, we will never get dissapointing skills that Anet says will be great, but suck all the same. Of course, each post would have to be verified before it is allowed to be displayed, and the vetting process would take a long time; but isnt it worth it to take a long time but come out with a great product? This is just a random suggestion that popped into my head, but id like to see something like this some day.
-Dean
Fishmonger
If there was epidemic for mesmer hexes, *drools*
that would be more overpowered than TNTF is
(PvE skills should still be for primaries only IMO)
Mesmers are similar to paragons in the sense that the more there are in a group, the better it goes. maybe 1/2 para 1/2 mes group..........
that would be more overpowered than TNTF is
(PvE skills should still be for primaries only IMO)
Mesmers are similar to paragons in the sense that the more there are in a group, the better it goes. maybe 1/2 para 1/2 mes group..........
arcanemacabre
I was really hoping for some kind of "mind control" PvE-only skills. Something like making one monster attack another and stuff would be much better than an interrupt/AoE nuke-in-one. What we got were skills that could be used in PvP, but don't have to be balanced with the other skills.
Not that I'm complaining, I really like CoP, and when I get enough in my Kurzick title, I'll be getting that one, too. I just wish they were a little more creative and actually deal with the mobs encountered in PvE rather than average ho-hum skills.
Not that I'm complaining, I really like CoP, and when I get enough in my Kurzick title, I'll be getting that one, too. I just wish they were a little more creative and actually deal with the mobs encountered in PvE rather than average ho-hum skills.
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
I was really hoping for some kind of "mind control" PvE-only skills. Something like making one monster attack another and stuff would be much better than an interrupt/AoE nuke-in-one. What we got were skills that could be used in PvP, but don't have to be balanced with the other skills.
LoL, yea a mind control skill could have been fun. *pictures turning Kuunavang against the Afflicted in Unwaking Waters*.
arcanemacabre
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
LoL, yea a mind control skill could have been fun. *pictures turning Kuunavang against the Afflicted in Unwaking Waters*.
Well, maybe the skill could only be used on non-boss mobs, but yeah, it would have been real fun. It would, in turn, make the Mesmer more wanted by groups, and make more people want to play Mesmers. Hell, as long as it was taking them to "balance" these skills, I figured they'd at least have some kind of interesting effects like that, instead of same-old, same-old.
ACreator
updates
CoP recharge decreased to 15 secs
*imagines MoR and Cop in bar*
CoP recharge decreased to 15 secs
*imagines MoR and Cop in bar*
Jetdoc
Use Necrosis on your mesmer. As long as the skill isn't nerfed more, you'll do more direct damage than an Air Elementalist could hope to do.
Antitorgo
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSecorsky
I have to ask... against a mob of level 28s, how much of that 3000 damage actually gets through the armor compared to the 1500 from the mesmer?
I like the potential this brings for AoE splatter in FoW with Shatter Hex and hex Eater Vortex. Actually - quite a lot. Plus -7 degen from burning, add to it that they can regain almost all their energy from spamming SF by using Glowing Gaze and there is no reason to not bring an SF ele over a CoP mesmer...
Even with the recharge buff I'm not sure I'd use it, so I can AoE spike 200 dmg with an Arcane Echo every 7 secs with MoR??? Bleh.
I like the potential this brings for AoE splatter in FoW with Shatter Hex and hex Eater Vortex. Actually - quite a lot. Plus -7 degen from burning, add to it that they can regain almost all their energy from spamming SF by using Glowing Gaze and there is no reason to not bring an SF ele over a CoP mesmer...
Even with the recharge buff I'm not sure I'd use it, so I can AoE spike 200 dmg with an Arcane Echo every 7 secs with MoR??? Bleh.
Evilsod
Hurray, Anet bowed down to a bunch of mesmers whining about how there completely overpowered armour ignoring nuke spell just isn't good enough.
Now when do skills that actually need improving get a look at?
Now when do skills that actually need improving get a look at?
Enix
Yep, Mesmers still suck vs Necros and Eles in PvE. 
The "Mesmer" PvE skills can still be used with equal effectiveness on non-mesmer primaries, so there is still no reason to take a Mes.
The "Mesmer" PvE skills can still be used with equal effectiveness on non-mesmer primaries, so there is still no reason to take a Mes.