Nightfall is a Singleplayer MMORPG
Darko_UK
I like to WIN, Therefore I go solo and hey what do you know!? Masters on all last 3 missions! GoM? Easy! Masters first ever time ¬.¬ Why? GWwiki and ALOTOF TIME AND PATIENCE which PUGS never have
Athrun Feya
One thing i noticed a particular decline in was general chat around outposts.
For the first time in GWs, you could sit in an outpost and hear a pin drop, even with others around you.
Personally, I don't mind PuGs but in nightfall they are generally PuGs for a reason; whether they cant hench/hero the mission themselves, or whether friends/guildies wont help out - whatever reason means that its usually those who are behind who are looking for parties aren't exactly the most of experienced players.
I'm glad to see the introduction of player-only Skills (sunspear and faction skills to be specific) as this puts emphasis back on team work, which is more vital in HM. But even then, i find myself judging players by the armor/titles they wear - i think to a degree you can tell how good a player is and be... well.. choosey. Is this really right?
For the first time in GWs, you could sit in an outpost and hear a pin drop, even with others around you.
Personally, I don't mind PuGs but in nightfall they are generally PuGs for a reason; whether they cant hench/hero the mission themselves, or whether friends/guildies wont help out - whatever reason means that its usually those who are behind who are looking for parties aren't exactly the most of experienced players.
I'm glad to see the introduction of player-only Skills (sunspear and faction skills to be specific) as this puts emphasis back on team work, which is more vital in HM. But even then, i find myself judging players by the armor/titles they wear - i think to a degree you can tell how good a player is and be... well.. choosey. Is this really right?
Seissor
I can do the final mish of Tyria Hells Precipice (sp) with hench and hero and get bonus on it, perfectly fine. Someone in Alliance asks for help, I say sure, we go form a full human team, barely defeat the first team and then get whooped the instant you start versing sparks.
I just PM'd the guy on alliance and said to go back to town. I got my heroes and henchies and added him, did the mission with bonus no fuss at all.
I dont pug because its like pulling teeth, its far more successful for me to play on my own or with alliance people. I play with my own because im in Australia and when I get online to play at night, EVERYONE IS ASLEEP or a bad pug. During the day I play with alliance members just fine.
I just PM'd the guy on alliance and said to go back to town. I got my heroes and henchies and added him, did the mission with bonus no fuss at all.
I dont pug because its like pulling teeth, its far more successful for me to play on my own or with alliance people. I play with my own because im in Australia and when I get online to play at night, EVERYONE IS ASLEEP or a bad pug. During the day I play with alliance members just fine.
Killed u man
Quote:
a) heroes are consistent
b) discrepancy between skilled and unskilled bigger
c) as a result, no good player wants to take the risk PUG's Arn't dying because of that, Guild Wars is dying because of that? I don't PvE too much now anyways, but I have enough experience to realize that Guild Wars, the PvE part is dying because of heroes... The PvP part is already dead because of plain neglecting...
Snow Bunny
Athrun Feya, in regards to being choosey with titles and armor, I fully agree. It's a sad fact, but if the choice is between a W/R rank 2 wisdom with 15k kurzick , or a W/N Tyrian explorer with 1.5k droks , chances are that the first will have a maxed, perfect weapon, and appropriately maxed runes, and will bring skills appropriate for the situation, along with a self heal and rez. The latter will probably have common, if not low quality weapons, will have bad runes (definetely not a sup vigor) and will not be smart with their skills. This is why I almost always heroway. My heroes outclass 80% of the PUGs I come across. I can go with a pug ele who thinks nuking means flare spam, using a collector staff, or I can use Zhed with ideal nuking skills, perfect armor, and a rago's staff. It's the difference almost between a Sizzler's and a mom-and-pop restaurant. The sizzler's won't be creative, exciting, or particularly wow, but you can depend on controlling your options, and getting a consistently above-average performance, with sometimes more than above average. You don't know what you're getting with the local food; you might get good, you might get bad, and you might get food poisoning.
I Will Heal You Ally
The thing about campaigns is that you always have new people aka newbs who haven't learned how to play and what to use and most of the times they run into an aggro and messes the mission up. I dunno about you but few missions I've done (Horde, Bay, Tormented Lands, Desolation missions) I did with other people who were experienced.
Second problem is that since NF has been out for a long time all those experienced people have beaten NF and made more chars leaving only the newcomers to try NF and that's why it's harder now.
Third problem are the districts. I live in Eu but play USA districts so I get pretty lonely most of the times, but still I manage do get groups in the late hours. If we only had 1 territory it would be more people and less newbies.
Every campaigns have their own missions and at the begining everyone are newbs and that's why people hero/hench them. When they learn what to do in the game we get more comfortable trying the pug because we know the goal and everything so it's easier.
Also if you like to PvE that much why don't you join a PvE guild that satisfy your needs and do the missions with them. It's all about people's choises.
Also perhaps you're on wrong time of the day there. Everytime I go do a mission I see 2-3 groups there (late at night), but if I want to henchie I do it over the day when less people are on
Second problem is that since NF has been out for a long time all those experienced people have beaten NF and made more chars leaving only the newcomers to try NF and that's why it's harder now.
Third problem are the districts. I live in Eu but play USA districts so I get pretty lonely most of the times, but still I manage do get groups in the late hours. If we only had 1 territory it would be more people and less newbies.
Every campaigns have their own missions and at the begining everyone are newbs and that's why people hero/hench them. When they learn what to do in the game we get more comfortable trying the pug because we know the goal and everything so it's easier.
Also if you like to PvE that much why don't you join a PvE guild that satisfy your needs and do the missions with them. It's all about people's choises.
Also perhaps you're on wrong time of the day there. Everytime I go do a mission I see 2-3 groups there (late at night), but if I want to henchie I do it over the day when less people are on
Snow Bunny
Every campagin has its own legit noobs that over populate missions and towns where quests might be untertaken.
This was seen in prophecies, with the hordes of warriors all LFG.
Factions saw too many assassins and not enough people who know how to play them intelligently. To a degree ritualists as well....ritualist was my first character...i played her as an MM first, to the deserved annoyance of N/mo mm's. it was only later, much later, that I understood the value of shelter and displacement.
and nightfall sees a flood of dervishes.
All three are reasonably useful classes, albeit melee. However, all three also appeal to our wistful imaginations instead of our reason...
It's unfortunate but I similarly find myself succumbing to PUG prejudice alllllll the time. You know though you're heading in the right direction when you perceive mesmers and paragons as having the same pve value as an ele.
This was seen in prophecies, with the hordes of warriors all LFG.
Factions saw too many assassins and not enough people who know how to play them intelligently. To a degree ritualists as well....ritualist was my first character...i played her as an MM first, to the deserved annoyance of N/mo mm's. it was only later, much later, that I understood the value of shelter and displacement.
and nightfall sees a flood of dervishes.
All three are reasonably useful classes, albeit melee. However, all three also appeal to our wistful imaginations instead of our reason...
It's unfortunate but I similarly find myself succumbing to PUG prejudice alllllll the time. You know though you're heading in the right direction when you perceive mesmers and paragons as having the same pve value as an ele.
agk512
ok guys, if you have played any other MMORPG, you would know that you spend a HUGE amount of time completely by yourself, with no henchmen or heros to help you out. the only other MMO's that i have played have been runescape....and WoW. when i bought guildwars i was amazed at how i was able to get an 8 person party so fast. its absolutely amazing the system they have in this game. i must have around...50% by myself and 50% with a human-only group. with WoW and RS, my experience was 90-95% solo and only 5% or 10% with a group.
Kinn
I always PuG whenever possible. Why? Because it's infinitely more interesting than just controlling mindless AI hero/hench around, even if they do often get the job done more reliably.
I feel lucky - having Pugged pretty much every mission for all three campaigns, I feel the vast majority of groups I have been in were pretty competent and above all, friendly. There's always a few bad apples (The Warrior who seems to think he's a minion master, or that guy who keeps trying to trade with you in the middle of a mission), but on the whole I just find Pugging infinitely more fun and rewarding than playing GW as a single player game.
I feel lucky - having Pugged pretty much every mission for all three campaigns, I feel the vast majority of groups I have been in were pretty competent and above all, friendly. There's always a few bad apples (The Warrior who seems to think he's a minion master, or that guy who keeps trying to trade with you in the middle of a mission), but on the whole I just find Pugging infinitely more fun and rewarding than playing GW as a single player game.
Effendi Westland
I don't like playing with bots. The considerably weaker henchies (compared to a player) and the reliance on other players is what attracted me to this game.
I've enjoyed many aspects of it, but the player interaction was always the most interesting to me. For the good and the bad. Completing Abaddon's Mouth while 4 players had left gave me an awesome sense of accomplishment. Completing something with 4 henchies and 3 overpowered heros just doesn't feel the same.
For me most of pve has died now. Only things that interest me are things my friends do in full human groups (occasional the deep/DoA).
I've enjoyed many aspects of it, but the player interaction was always the most interesting to me. For the good and the bad. Completing Abaddon's Mouth while 4 players had left gave me an awesome sense of accomplishment. Completing something with 4 henchies and 3 overpowered heros just doesn't feel the same.
For me most of pve has died now. Only things that interest me are things my friends do in full human groups (occasional the deep/DoA).
Alexbeav
I use a combo of heroes and PuG. I think it's for the best...
Snow Bunny
I didn't screenie it b/c I thought it unimportant last night...but in GC somebody said, "I wish you could quest around with 7 heroes."
At first, I agreed. I mean, Mhenlo's a terrible healer for GoM...but....I also don't want to have to sacrifice the SS for something mediocre b/c the hench monk sucks.
I firmly believe that we can only use 3 heroes at one time because Anet doesn't want complete reliance on H/H. I mean, the henchies as a general suck. The warriors use charge, Mhenlo (that asshat) uses WoH...and GG..Aidan uses Prepared Stance.
And certain missions I believe necessitate the usage of other players. Shiro in Cantha is certainly a human designed mission..b/c of celestial skills.
At first, I agreed. I mean, Mhenlo's a terrible healer for GoM...but....I also don't want to have to sacrifice the SS for something mediocre b/c the hench monk sucks.
I firmly believe that we can only use 3 heroes at one time because Anet doesn't want complete reliance on H/H. I mean, the henchies as a general suck. The warriors use charge, Mhenlo (that asshat) uses WoH...and GG..Aidan uses Prepared Stance.
And certain missions I believe necessitate the usage of other players. Shiro in Cantha is certainly a human designed mission..b/c of celestial skills.
Fierce Eyed Tiger
Thanks for posting this discussion. I am a relatively new player who, having tried playing with groups of humans, I have been so discouraged with the conduct of others in the groups that I was actually contemplating not continuing to try to play at all. I would say that I average problems in all-people groups about 3 out of 4 times. The 4th time has been a lot of fun, but with an average like that, I don’t know if it is worth the risk of getting into a really bad group. 
I actually was able to do the second Factions mission in a group of level 20 strangers who were going for a Master’s record time, and even though I was only a level 18 player at the time, they let me join the group. I was very honored, to say the least. It was a tremendously fun experience. But most of the time, unfortunately, playing with strangers has not been a good experience for me. I wish it were easier to play with strangers, but it just isn’t.
Then, I got far enough along with my character (who just reached level 20 on Thursday) that I became able to travel between all three worlds, and I was surprised to see that after I got to NF with my character, the Heroes came with me to Proph and Factions.
This brought up the question in my mind as to whether it is better to play with an all level 20 henchie group, or try to do weapons, insignias and runes upgrades on the level 15 Heroes and play with them and level 20 henchies, rather than trying to find groups of strangers to go on quests and missions with.
I would very much appreciate hearing more opinions about whether you experienced players are doing upgrades on your Heroes when you get them in NF, and the best ways to utilize them (Heroes) when you get them.
Thanks for listening.
I actually was able to do the second Factions mission in a group of level 20 strangers who were going for a Master’s record time, and even though I was only a level 18 player at the time, they let me join the group. I was very honored, to say the least. It was a tremendously fun experience. But most of the time, unfortunately, playing with strangers has not been a good experience for me. I wish it were easier to play with strangers, but it just isn’t.
Then, I got far enough along with my character (who just reached level 20 on Thursday) that I became able to travel between all three worlds, and I was surprised to see that after I got to NF with my character, the Heroes came with me to Proph and Factions.
This brought up the question in my mind as to whether it is better to play with an all level 20 henchie group, or try to do weapons, insignias and runes upgrades on the level 15 Heroes and play with them and level 20 henchies, rather than trying to find groups of strangers to go on quests and missions with.
I would very much appreciate hearing more opinions about whether you experienced players are doing upgrades on your Heroes when you get them in NF, and the best ways to utilize them (Heroes) when you get them.
Thanks for listening.
Alex Morningstar
The game is a lot easier to progress in when your heros and your characters are levelled appropriately. The best way to do this is form your group (of whatever composition) and head outside the portal. If you die, then something is wrong and you either need to change skill sets and/or individuals. That or you need to finish levelling up :P
haggus71
Part of the problem is.....people play the game all for different reasons! Surprise! Some people are from more social arenas, like other MMO's, and like to have fun playing. Others like the achievement of getting through a mission with masters, in HM. For them were created all the titles and ranks that GW has.
Unfortunately, what happens now is, more of the people playing are getting the idea that the ONLY way to play the game is to take people that fit their own cookiecutter build. How many times have you sat in Urgoz for 2+ hours while the group tries to get the 4E/3bp/2N/2Mo/1Rt group build together for HM, then wipe 20-30 min into the game? Meanwhile there might be a few guys out there that might have added more to your team than some putz who thinks he's a god just because he can read builds off our site or pvxwiki and has armor you could only afford from farming in the great WoW tradition(might as well have a penis option where you put gold into it to make yours bigger).
Yeah, I'm ranting. The thing I'm afraid of is seeing a good game have to release a big expansion with different games to try to keep people interested. the Asura games: Pokemon anyone? It will get to the point, as others have already mentioned it's getting, where you will walk into any place other than Kaineng or Kamadan and be the only blue dot there.
So the next time you are getting your HnH or your guildies together, look around. Maybe that ranger or sin might be a good guy, that can learn from your help. After all, you were a stoopid n00b once.
Unfortunately, what happens now is, more of the people playing are getting the idea that the ONLY way to play the game is to take people that fit their own cookiecutter build. How many times have you sat in Urgoz for 2+ hours while the group tries to get the 4E/3bp/2N/2Mo/1Rt group build together for HM, then wipe 20-30 min into the game? Meanwhile there might be a few guys out there that might have added more to your team than some putz who thinks he's a god just because he can read builds off our site or pvxwiki and has armor you could only afford from farming in the great WoW tradition(might as well have a penis option where you put gold into it to make yours bigger).
Yeah, I'm ranting. The thing I'm afraid of is seeing a good game have to release a big expansion with different games to try to keep people interested. the Asura games: Pokemon anyone? It will get to the point, as others have already mentioned it's getting, where you will walk into any place other than Kaineng or Kamadan and be the only blue dot there.
So the next time you are getting your HnH or your guildies together, look around. Maybe that ranger or sin might be a good guy, that can learn from your help. After all, you were a stoopid n00b once.
Fierce Eyed Tiger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierce Eyed Tiger
Unfortunately, what happens now is, more of the people playing are getting the idea that the ONLY way to play the game is to take people that fit their own cookiecutter build. How many times have you sat in Urgoz for 2+ hours while the group tries to get the 4E/3bp/2N/2Mo/1Rt group build together for HM, then wipe 20-30 min into the game? Meanwhile there might be a few guys out there that might have added more to your team than some putz who thinks he's a god just because he can read builds off our site or pvxwiki and has armor you could only afford from farming in the great WoW tradition(might as well have a penis option where you put gold into it to make yours bigger).
Seems too true, and too funny! Just because a player is new to this *game* doesn't mean they necessarily don't want to play in a cooperative and helpful manner. I often feel that I am being left out of PuGs because I haven't played long enough to have titles. 
One can only do so much research on one's own, and then you need the in-game assistance of playing with other experienced players. I'm sure there are plenty of other people who have only recently tried the game, who find it fun to play in groups, but can't always drop everything in their real lives to do planned "events".
I live in Tucson AZ, the lightning capital of the USA, so in the monsoon season (basically July and August) I sometimes literally *must* shut down my PC and unplug it. Yes, I have major surge protection, but I'm not foolish enough to try playing an online game in the middle of a massive lightning event.
BTW- I hope they don't resort to the "penis enlarger", but considering some of the chat I've seen in outposts, (unfortunately) I'm *sure* this would appeal to a great many players.
One can only do so much research on one's own, and then you need the in-game assistance of playing with other experienced players. I'm sure there are plenty of other people who have only recently tried the game, who find it fun to play in groups, but can't always drop everything in their real lives to do planned "events".
I live in Tucson AZ, the lightning capital of the USA, so in the monsoon season (basically July and August) I sometimes literally *must* shut down my PC and unplug it. Yes, I have major surge protection, but I'm not foolish enough to try playing an online game in the middle of a massive lightning event.
BTW- I hope they don't resort to the "penis enlarger", but considering some of the chat I've seen in outposts, (unfortunately) I'm *sure* this would appeal to a great many players.
Snow Bunny
Quote:
Originally Posted by haggus71
So the next time you are getting your HnH or your guildies together, look around. Maybe that ranger or sin might be a good guy, that can learn from your help. After all, you were a stoopid n00b once.
Here's the difference I seem to come across. I agreee with you in the spirit of optimism, but...
When I was a noob with my little ole' channeling rit, when a Vizunah square group told me to go invest in spawning and communing, I followed suit immediately.
When more experienced players said, "Snow, when mob A comes out here, lay down your spirits" You better bet I laid down my spirits when Mob A came out.
Most "n00bs" I seem to find these days are rather unattentive to instruction/suggestion. I'm very much for going back to the "hard" Canthan missions and helping out that lvl 17 noob mm. Except, when I tell him that my heroes have higher lvl minions and will get us through the mission, and he should go curses or something, he tells me to go screw myself and aggroes the afflicted, and gets us killed.
eek:
When I was a noob with my little ole' channeling rit, when a Vizunah square group told me to go invest in spawning and communing, I followed suit immediately.
When more experienced players said, "Snow, when mob A comes out here, lay down your spirits" You better bet I laid down my spirits when Mob A came out.
Most "n00bs" I seem to find these days are rather unattentive to instruction/suggestion. I'm very much for going back to the "hard" Canthan missions and helping out that lvl 17 noob mm. Except, when I tell him that my heroes have higher lvl minions and will get us through the mission, and he should go curses or something, he tells me to go screw myself and aggroes the afflicted, and gets us killed.
eek: